Ike Impressions

[GenG]

Like many Marth players out there, I'm pretty nervous at what I've heard about him so far and am hpoing I can get used to him. As much as I like Ike, I won't play him if he doesn't fit my playing style.
Either for that reason or Marth is back in.

Ike is not definitely like Marth. However Marth will return, him or a character of a similar vein. Don't worry.

 

[scotchtape622]

I play as Marth and Zelda. Ike seems like the perfect combination to me.

 

[Rex+]

Ike is not definitely like Marth. However Marth will return, him or a character of a similar vein. Don't worry.

Similar vein? Who might that be?
Also, what kinds of facts do you have that gets Marth a spot for Brawl (besides his FE remake...)?
Egh, I'm just in a bad mood today.

 

[GenG]

The only proof I have is that Ike isn't like Marth. Sakurai doesn't like to throw original movesets away.

Just like most people assume that the rest of original characters will return again in Brawl.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

I'm just going to say this:

An Ike combo will NEVER exist.

 

[Kabyk-Greenmyst]

lol, you're so right EPF. Maybe so elongated delayed strings of successful attacks, but thats it. O.o

If anyone needs any more proof Ike and Marth aren't the same, check this out. You will never catch Ike wearing a Tiara. >.>

And for proof that I called it on the counter move : http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=79224
Clearly the Lyn part is not true, but it was hypothetical anyway.

 

[Mike G]

never say never.


i'll remember this when I or someone else discover a 2 hit combo with Ike. =]

 

[Brockman5]

2 hits yes, massive combos..no!

He isnt as speedy as marth...but his strength and range will make people not want to come at him unless they have it planned out and know what they're doing...

 

[N1c2k3]

Wow...

I'm getting tired of having to create this disclaimer at every post, but... DISCLAIMER: *Remembert that everything said here was only from the demo impressions, the game IS going to change, in ways that we know nothing about, before release. Therefore, everything stated here is only from a few stabs at a demo, and could totally become invalid come its release.* Still, given all that...

You ppl have no idea what you're talking about!. So far I've only noticed 1 person that I saw at E4All post in this thread. Ike's speed is nothing like any of you can humanly comprehend. Ganon is like Sonic compared to Ike. I only played him twice, but more than once I pressed the jump button twice b/c I thought it hadn't registered, only to realize that he hadn't yet started his jump. All of his smashes, from what I saw, especially his fsmash and usmash, which are the 2 I saw being used most, are soooooooo slooow, it's literally beyond comprehension. They take AT LEAST 2 full seconds to perform, and that's being generous, including recovery time. I'm not exaggerating. 2 seconds; that's 120 frames, basically as long as the Falcon Punch, maybe longer, idk. Any human player w/a 10th of a brain will never get hit by it on the fly. Obviously the only way to hit will be superb predicting skills, ala Boswer's fsmash. Like I said before, you'll basically have to be psychic to stand a chance w/Ike. So, while I was playing him, after realizing how horrible his smashes were, I was like, "Well I guess I'll just use his tilts more then." Problem is, they're just as slow! Obviously dissapointed, I thought, "Well I guess that just leaves his aerials". Guess what? They're just as slow too, and even worse, comparatively, since aerials are supposed to be the quickest form of atk for most char's. And like EPF said, besides an aerial to grab, if he can Lcancel, I don't see a possibility for any type of combos, sorry Mikey, Lmao.

Point in case: I'm not trying to rain down on any Ike fans' parade. I personally think he was still semi-fun, and I'm sure I'll sprinkle some gameplay time on him, if only to embarass noobs, but I'd show my rump if he ever makes it anywhere out of bottom-tier...

 

[Windlord]

Wow...

I'm getting tired of having to create this disclaimer at every post, but... DISCLAIMER: *Remembert that everything said here was only from the demo impressions, the game IS going to change, in ways that we know nothing about, before release. Therefore, everything stated here is only from a few stabs at a demo, and could totally become invalid come its release.* Still, given all that...

You ppl have no idea what you're talking about!. So far I've only noticed 1 person that I saw at E4All post in this thread. Ike's speed is nothing like any of you can humanly comprehend. Ganon is like Sonic compared to Ike. I only played him twice, but more than once I pressed the jump button twice b/c I thought it hadn't registered, only to realize that he hadn't yet started his jump. All of his smashes, from what I saw, especially his fsmash and usmash, which are the 2 I saw being used most, are soooooooo slooow, it's literally beyond comprehension. They take AT LEAST 2 full seconds to perform, and that's being generous, including recovery time. I'm not exaggerating. 2 seconds; that's 120 frames, basically as long as the Falcon Punch, maybe longer, idk. Any human player w/a 10th of a brain will never get hit by it on the fly. Obviously the only way to hit will be superb predicting skills, ala Boswer's fsmash. Like I said before, you'll basically have to be psychic to stand a chance w/Ike. So, while I was playing him, after realizing how horrible his smashes were, I was like, "Well I guess I'll just use his tilts more then." Problem is, they're just as slow! Obviously dissapointed, I thought, "Well I guess that just leaves his aerials". Guess what? They're just as slow too, and even worse, comparatively, since aerials are supposed to be the quickest form of atk for most char's. And like EPF said, besides an aerial to grab, if he can Lcancel, I don't see a possibility for any type of combos, sorry Mikey, Lmao.

Point in case: I'm not trying to rain down on any Ike fans' parade. I personally think he was still semi-fun, and I'm sure I'll sprinkle some gameplay time on him, if only to embarass noobs, but I'd show my rump if he ever makes it anywhere out of bottom-tier...

You have played with him, I have not. You think he is slow, to me he looks slow but playable. Telling us he is slow isn't going to change anything, even if he is the slowest character in the game I'm still playing with him because I'm a fanboy.

I'm gonna have to agree with the statment "Tires don exits"

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

im with u windlord

 

[Eratangos]

But isn't SSBB Fox's speed around Link speed in SSBM. If every character's speed is toned down. , Ike being slower than SSBM Ganon doesn't mean too much, it's all relative. Lol, Ganon's speed is equal to the fastest characters from SSB. If what Brockman 5 says is true, that you can link side B with Aether, kind of like pikachu but only across and up (that's how I interpreted it), than you have one of better recoveries in the game. I wasn't there but things seem too murky to be sure he will be horrible. There are several things going for Ike that other slow characters from first two games simply didn't posess. A moveset nearly competely composed of disjointed hitboxes, with sweeping range. A counter that by consensus seems to come out as fast as marth's and equal if not stronger than Roy's. Invicability frames. The nerfing of projectiles in general and no more waveshines. These factors alone won't make him good but this is where more playing and testing is needed. We need to know when exactly the invicibility frames come into play, how we can take advantage of it. Does he have the best or one of the best cc game. Is there tipper property to his sword, and how much. Can he follow up after his grabs. And of course this is just a demo, still around 2 more months of development. Maybe some of the character properties have already changed since E for All.

 

[Brockman5]

But isn't SSBB Fox's speed around Link speed in SSBM. If every character's speed is toned down. , Ike being slower than SSBM Ganon doesn't mean too much, it's all relative. Lol, Ganon's speed is equal to the fastest characters from SSB. If what Brockman 5 says is true, that you can link side B with Aether, kind of like pikachu but only across and up (that's how I interpreted it), than you have one of better recoveries in the game. I wasn't there but things seem too murky to be sure he will be horrible. There are several things going for Ike that other slow characters from first two games simply didn't posess. A moveset nearly competely composed of disjointed hitboxes, with sweeping range. A counter that by consensus seems to come out as fast as marth's and equal if not stronger than Roy's. Invicability frames. The nerfing of projectiles in general and no more waveshines. These factors alone won't make him good but this is where more playing and testing is needed. We need to know when exactly the invicibility frames come into play, how we can take advantage of it. Does he have the best or one of the best cc game. Is there tipper property to his sword, and how much. Can he follow up after his grabs. And of course this is just a demo, still around 2 more months of development. Maybe some of the character properties have already changed since E for All.

That actually pretty much sums up about what I was sayin about his recovery...in the demo you could side B and the aether up....and his aether is extremely high..and his charged side b can take you extremely far too..so he's not a typical "slow" character...He has abilities that make him deadly and would really make the opponent think about what they're going to do before they rush in with an attack..

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

Wow...

I'm getting tired of having to create this disclaimer at every post, but... DISCLAIMER: *Remembert that everything said here was only from the demo impressions, the game IS going to change, in ways that we know nothing about, before release. Therefore, everything stated here is only from a few stabs at a demo, and could totally become invalid come its release.* Still, given all that...

You ppl have no idea what you're talking about!. So far I've only noticed 1 person that I saw at E4All post in this thread. Ike's speed is nothing like any of you can humanly comprehend. Ganon is like Sonic compared to Ike. I only played him twice, but more than once I pressed the jump button twice b/c I thought it hadn't registered, only to realize that he hadn't yet started his jump. All of his smashes, from what I saw, especially his fsmash and usmash, which are the 2 I saw being used most, are soooooooo slooow, it's literally beyond comprehension. They take AT LEAST 2 full seconds to perform, and that's being generous, including recovery time. I'm not exaggerating. 2 seconds; that's 120 frames, basically as long as the Falcon Punch, maybe longer, idk. Any human player w/a 10th of a brain will never get hit by it on the fly. Obviously the only way to hit will be superb predicting skills, ala Boswer's fsmash. Like I said before, you'll basically have to be psychic to stand a chance w/Ike. So, while I was playing him, after realizing how horrible his smashes were, I was like, "Well I guess I'll just use his tilts more then." Problem is, they're just as slow! Obviously dissapointed, I thought, "Well I guess that just leaves his aerials". Guess what? They're just as slow too, and even worse, comparatively, since aerials are supposed to be the quickest form of atk for most char's. And like EPF said, besides an aerial to grab, if he can Lcancel, I don't see a possibility for any type of combos, sorry Mikey, Lmao.

Point in case: I'm not trying to rain down on any Ike fans' parade. I personally think he was still semi-fun, and I'm sure I'll sprinkle some gameplay time on him, if only to embarass noobs, but I'd show my rump if he ever makes it anywhere out of bottom-tier...

Thank you Nick.

BTW, i'm Phoenix if you didn't know.

You have played with him, I have not. You think he is slow, to me he looks slow but playable. Telling us he is slow isn't going to change anything, even if he is the slowest character in the game I'm still playing with him because I'm a fanboy.

I'm gonna have to agree with the statment "Tires don exits"

You cannot judge by looks when we have played with him. just because ou think he looks fast doesn't mean that said character can be controled in a different manner (Better or Worse). Constant denial isn't healthy.

Ike isn't good as of now.

 

[Fizz-sama]

Ike is slow, I know this. However, with only a demo so far to test him out, I won't say he's good or bad, especially since I didn't play the demo. I also don't give a **** if the people who played him say that he's bad or not. I appreciate the vids and info everyone gives out on him, but my decision will wait for when I play as him, and I'm already bracing for the worst case scenario for Ike.

 

[Hydde]

2 seconds to perform a smash?

that just too slow... i dont think that information is accurate

 

[SonicZeroX]

2 seconds to perform a smash?

that just too slow... i dont think that information is accurate

LOL 2 seconds!?!? Even Falcon Punch takes a bit less than 1 second to start.

 

[Saph66]

The information is correct. It literally takes like 2 seconds to perform the forward smash attack. Going over 2 seconds is wrong though.

 

[SonicZeroX]

The information is correct. It literally takes like 2 seconds to perform the forward smash attack. Going over 2 seconds is wrong though.

Wait, 2 seconds startup or 2 seconds total animation time?

 

[Saph66]

Wait, 2 seconds startup or 2 seconds total animation time?

Two seconds for the whole attack, including startup till the end of the attack and recovery time. That is really slow, and we say that Marth's forward smash was slow, which it is lol, but this? wow...lol

 

[SonicZeroX]

Two seconds for the whole attack, including startup till the end of the attack and recovery time.

Wow that's still the same speed as FREAKING WARLOCK PUNCH! O__O

Edit: For reference Warlock Punch is 119 frames long, which is 2 seconds minus a frame.

 

[Hallowed Storm]

Wow that's still the same speed as FREAKING WARLOCK PUNCH! O__O

Edit: For reference Warlock Punch is 119 frames long, which is 2 seconds minus a frame.

Wow... that smash attack is slow.


I'm still saying, though, that combined with other techniques at Ike's disposal, he will at least be playable.

Originally Posted by Eratangos
But isn't SSBB Fox's speed around Link speed in SSBM. If every character's speed is toned down. , Ike being slower than SSBM Ganon doesn't mean too much, it's all relative. Lol, Ganon's speed is equal to the fastest characters from SSB. If what Brockman 5 says is true, that you can link side B with Aether, kind of like pikachu but only across and up (that's how I interpreted it), than you have one of better recoveries in the game. I wasn't there but things seem too murky to be sure he will be horrible. There are several things going for Ike that other slow characters from first two games simply didn't posess. A moveset nearly competely composed of disjointed hitboxes, with sweeping range. A counter that by consensus seems to come out as fast as marth's and equal if not stronger than Roy's. Invicability frames. The nerfing of projectiles in general and no more waveshines. These factors alone won't make him good but this is where more playing and testing is needed. We need to know when exactly the invicibility frames come into play, how we can take advantage of it. Does he have the best or one of the best cc game. Is there tipper property to his sword, and how much. Can he follow up after his grabs. And of course this is just a demo, still around 2 more months of development. Maybe some of the character properties have already changed since E for All.

I like how Eratangos puts it.

 

[RyokoYaksa]

No matter how slow/bad he might be, Ike is still sex on wheels. That's the most important thing, right?

 

[Brockman5]

Hahaha lol^^^ Exactly..

 

[Fizz-sama]

No matter how slow/bad he might be, Ike is still sex on wheels. That's the most important thing, right?

Which in turn makes you sex on wheels.

 

[Rx-]

Ike is the new Marth. I GUARANTEE there is more than meets the eye with him. I bet at the game's release he will be balanced!

 

[Neo-X]

Ike is the new Marth. I GUARANTEE there is more than meets the eye with him. I bet at the game's release he will be balanced!

I wouldn't say that. They both seem completely different. Ike=Slow, powerhouse, with tons of invincible frames. Marth=Practically the complete opposite of Ike. Although in PoR, Ike was pretty quick...and he was overpowered...which wouldn't work for Smash.

 

[GenG]

Gimpyfish' impressions.

Alright, now let’s move onto one of my favorite characters from the demo. Generally speaking his animations are wonderful, the way he moves, his final smash, his taunts and his throws are really cool visually speaking, and his final smash is awe inspiring.

But enough about the visuals and animations, let’s move onto the actual gameplay of Ike. Some of you readers saw my initial exaggerations of Fox’s nerfs and thought perhaps I was doing the same for Ike – read on to see if that’s true or not, but don’t get your hopes up to much. Let me start with this. Ike is strong, and when I say strong I mean STRONG. He KO’s at much lower percentages than Bowser does on average, only a few moves of Bowser’s seemed to compete with Ike’s power. Ike’s smash attacks are all HUGE disjointed hitboxes of raw power. If you can for a moment picture Marth’s hitboxes, but regardless of what point of your sword you hit them with it’s a tipper, those are Ike’s hitboxes. That was just an example, Ike really doesn’t have a moveset that is anything like Marth’s whatsoever, I was just comparing hitboxes sizes and knockback. For those of you who haven’t read a thing about Ike, he plays absolutely nothing like Marth/Roy in melee (but then, nobody really plays quite like their melee counterparts).

Alright, so now we know. Ike is a serious powerhouse, the strongest character BY FAR (at least in the demo) but he has some pretty intense drawbacks. As a player who uses the “slow but strong” character in Melee well I can see the limitations of another “slow but strong” character pretty easily as far as potential goes. Bowser in melee was slow but strong, and so was Ganon. I play both of those characters (although only Bowser in tournament). Ganon is CLEARLY the better of the two for multiple reasons. Now – for a moment – let’s compare Ike from Brawl to the Ganon/Bowser “slow but strong” character setup. Ganon and Bowser both have several moves that activate quickly or have a lot of shield stun or have a large amount of range or can grab from the air. They both have some manner of safety in their approaches or have at least some manner of speed in their character. Ike on the other hand seemingly has none of these positive factors. Ike is much, MUCH slower than either Ganon OR Bowser. I realize that this is a new physics engine, but he is VERY slow when compared to the rest of the cast. I’m trying to put the least amount of bias in this update that I can. I really wanted Ike to be good after seeing him played, and I honestly didn’t believe that he was as slow as people were telling me; then I played as him. His airials are ALL slow, his tilts are slower than most smashes, his smashes are almost the same speed as his tilts. He really, REALLY lacks in speed. After watching some of the videos of Ike I find myself doubting that he is really as slow as I recall. Visually some of the startup of his moves is actually hidden; he appears to be much faster than he really is in the videos. Let me make another thing clear. Ike is NOT very laggy. Ike does NOT have a large amount of lag after his airials, he just has slow activation time on them, which is MUCH more difficult to get around on a competitive level of play. If there is a Nintendo representative reading this somehow I implore you, please DECREASE the activation or startup time of SOME of Ike’s moves. He only needs some manner of safety or a move to combo into his ridiculously strong moves at very least.

Moving onto some of the other aspects of Ike (after again stressing, which I can’t stress enough, that Ike is VERY powerful)… Ike has a neutral b move that is similar to Marth and Roy’s neutral b. It is chargeable until it is an auto kill (if you charge it all the way you receive a ten percent penalty just like Roy’s), and seems to do an awful lot of knockback initially; this may legitimately be one of his fastest moves – and no, unfortunately, it isn’t very fast. Ike’s side B seemed to be one of his better moves. You can move across the stage quickly with this move and it’s a nice powerful strike (think of Pika/Pichu’s over b in melee, but much more useful and less laggy). This move can also be used as a recovery due to the new sweet spotting mechanics, however, after you use this move one time in the air, you cannot perform any airials or air dodge, it is just the same as using his up b, so it is NOT like Luigi’s over b recovery. Ike’s up b is pretty good on the stage. It has a nice chunk of super armor in it (super armor means that you take percentage, but no knockback) is fairly fast, and has quite a good amount of knockback. His up b looks visually very similar to Kirby’s, but as a recovery move it is noticeably worse. Unfortunately you gain ZERO horizontal distance when you use this move. You cannot move to the left or too the right, you can only go straight up and straight down, which is a major blow to his recovery. Ike’s down b counter comes out relatively fast and lasts for a fair amount of time, this move does more knockback than Marth’s counter did, but I’m unsure whether or not it has the same effect as Roy’s did in Melee.

Overall Ike doesn’t look like he will be an effective character in the competitive scene unless we see some buff’s for him, or we find out things we couldn’t in a 4 day period with a demo, which is of course likely. Obviously we didn’t get much time with Ike or the demo, but with all of us competitive players racking our brains to try and think of a way to get this character playable we couldn’t find a way.

Don’t get me wrong, Ike at the demo was doing very well. Ike is a complete BEAST in four player games because of his massive killing potential, and he may very well be a decent team’s partner for doubles matches in the competitive scene, but at this point he seems to not have much competitive singles potential due to an overwhelming lack of speed and a completely horrendous recovery when compared to the rest of the cast. One of my favorite characters from the demo; let’s all cross our fingers on this one.

So that's it. Ike is real powerful, but with serious pre and post move lag.

 

[Cancel]

Do any of you guys think Ike can replace marth?

 

[jc1sttwin]

Ike cannot there exact opposites but people will find ways to make him play different

Me I want to play Ike pretty bad I liked Ganodorf in melee racked up lots of kills in 4 player matches

I'm gonna play with regardless of what the people say

 

[Saph66]

Do any of you guys think Ike can replace marth?

Ike could replace Marth, but not in the same way, maybe just replace just for the fire emblem rep. However, if you're talking about replacing Marth in the sense that they are similar, he can't. Gimpyfish already said they are way different, moves, movement, style etc. I doubt Ike will replace Marth.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

Ike is the new Marth

Hell no!! Why would you replace a completely different characters?

On the same note, why is everyone on the character replacing bandwaggon? Why can't there just be more Fire Emblem representatives than just 1?

Ike won't replace Marth, more representatives will come. The only move that is even similar to Marth's is his Forward Smash.

>_>

 

[jc1sttwin]

And the >A doesn't even look similar

I think the only thing they have is the counter

 

[Hallowed Storm]

Their similarities:
- Same Franchise
- Charge Up Neutral B
- Counter
- (I'm pretty sure) Both have entirely based sword attacks
- Several normal attacks are the same, but with different pre-and-post lag.

I see their differences outweigh their similarities by far. My guess is that there will be another Fire Emblem representative, especially with the new Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn that is being released for Wii on 11-5-07. It seems like they'll want more fan service and sales for this game.

 

[SonicZeroX]

Their similarities:
- Same Franchise
- Charge Up Neutral B
- Counter
- (I'm pretty sure) Both have entirely based sword attacks
- Several normal attacks are the same, but with different pre-and-post lag.

I see their differences outweigh their similarities by far. My guess is that there will be another Fire Emblem representative, especially with the new Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn that is being released for Wii on 11-5-07. It seems like they'll want more fan service and sales for this game.

Ike's jab is a punch and a stomp so it's not entirely swords based.

 

[Marthgreil]

Their similarities:
- Same Franchise
- Charge Up Neutral B
- Counter
- (I'm pretty sure) Both have entirely based sword attacks
- Several normal attacks are the same, but with different pre-and-post lag.

I see their differences outweigh their similarities by far. My guess is that there will be another Fire Emblem representative, especially with the new Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn that is being released for Wii on 11-5-07. It seems like they'll want more fan service and sales for this game.

Fan Service as in ecchi like stuff. Not in Smash Bros.

Also, I think counter is a staple for the FE sword users in Brawl.

 

[Zevox]

Their similarities:
- Same Franchise

The same can be said of Mario and Bowser, Kirby and Dedede, Pikachu and Pokèmon Trainer, etc etc.

- Charge Up Neutral B

The same can be said of DK, Samus, Link, Diddy, and many other SSB characters past and present.

- Counter

Ah, their only real similarity, which also happens to be a pretty generic special move. Defending against an attack then counter-attacking is hardly a unique concept.

- (I'm pretty sure) Both have entirely based sword attacks

Because both are swordsmen. Thats how that works. The same could be said of Link and Meta Knight.

- Several normal attacks are the same, but with different pre-and-post lag.

The only normal attacks Marth and Ike have which are similar are their f-tilt and fair. Ike shares more normal moves with Link than Marth (his dash attack, his dair, his d-tilt, and his fsmash is even Link's from the original SSB).

I see their differences outweigh their similarities by far.

You're not looking very closely, then, because they're almost nothing alike.

My guess is that there will be another Fire Emblem representative, especially with the new Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn that is being released for Wii on 11-5-07. It seems like they'll want more fan service and sales for this game.

Of course there will be another Fire Emblem representative - quite possibly two, actually. As for helping sales, Ike already does that insofar as is possible, but its going to be a bit late to do so anyway, considering Radiant Dawn has been out in Japan since February and Brawl doesn't come out until 3 months after it even in the US. And Marth is the star of the next FE game coming up, Fire Emblem DS, which will be coming out after Brawl, so if anything hes a better choice for an advertisement than anyone from Radiant Dawn.

Zevox

 

[Brockman5]

I think marth will enter brawl along with ike..ike will be the slower stronger character of the two..and ike will be the faster weaker character....i think marth will return with his same moveset...duh

 

[Saph66]

I think marth will enter brawl along with ike..ike will be the slower stronger character of the two..and ike will be the faster weaker character....i think marth will return with his same moveset...duh

We already know that Ike is stronger of the two, BUT Marth is not weak, its just Ike is stronger.

 

[Maben]

We already know that Ike is stronger of the two, BUT Marth is not weak, its just Ike is stronger.

Lol no actually if you look he said ike is slow and strong, AND ike is weak and fast. Apparently according to him Ike has the best of both worlds .