If you were in charge of roster picking for an upcoming Smash!!

[BandanaWaddleDee]

1. The second roster I posted specifically was a "fangame" roster variant, I'm surprised that you all welcome to Goku in Crusade and Flash 2, Yet when I decide to add someone who is just as iconic and also fourth party this gets point out. Also in my "Console" roster I just added 2 other parties: the 2 other most iconic reps that I could see happening at most.

2. Ever heard of a character who had "Author appeal"? I would have added Piplup due to the fact he should have been a replacement for Pichu in Brawl. And I also stated it would probably be a different rep for a generation that was current if it was not by me.

3. Dark Pit is just a boring moveset clone of Pit. There are much more deserving characters such as Starfy or even Inkling for that matter. It's why he's moved to a costume, A.K.A. What he should be.

Have you played Uprising? I feel like 90% of people who hate Dark Pit haven't played Uprising

 

[Mario123311]

Does it really matter when the character you get is pretty much just a carbon copy of an already existing character for that matter? I'm sorry, but there is a reason why he is so disliked. (And at least Pichu had a gimmick for one) Yes, he has a different down special but that's barely noticable when you are playing for the most part. It's like giving Shadow Mario a playable character slot and just having his down special be some sort of paintbrush attack or something. At least even Dr. Mario retained his Melee playstyle and was made heavier and slower. (and stronger but worse for recovery compared to Mario)

 

[Chromfirmed]

Hi!

If I were in charge of the roster, eh? Should be interesting.

I would see the likes of people and after I think about it, this would be ...

My final roster.​

49 Roster Veterans + 16 Newcomers
+ Princess Daisy + Waluigi


/Dixie + King K. Rool
+ Grahim

+ Bandana Dee
+ Krystal

+ Chrom/Lucina + Azura + Corrin
+ Pokemon 7ºGeneration

+ Isaac + Bayonetta
+ Inkling + Chibi Robo
+ Shantae + Rayman


Following the typical policy Nintendo, in the DLC, I would put: Mewtwo, Daraen, Midna, Shovel Knight and Chorus Kids.

And If They Could add more (if is the last Smash): Ryu, Cooking Mama, Ninten, Paper Mario and Ridley.

I hope you like.

 

[FunAtParties]

My rosters absent smash director's cap would make you real angry. And I won't lie, the temptation to make a controversial cut for salt's sake was strong. I wish I was in Zesty's seat right now, tbh.

I'm honestly surprised the Lucario cut is the thing I have to defend. I was expecting some of the clone lovers to flame about the demotions, or get some weird controversy of the Zelda/Sheik mash-up, but not Lucario.

Because a character's popularity can translate into a chance at appearing in Smash. This combined with moveset potential and possible unique mechanics are part of Sakurai's criteria when determining eligibility for certain characters. Though I don't know where Sakurai came up with the mechanic for Lucario.

Just to be clear, I can't stand Jiggs. I wish she would get the axe already, but I know deep down inside that it will never happen. Just as people in the west have their likes, Japan has their likes. And they seem to like overly cute things.

I mean the majority of Lucario's popularity comes from the East too. Everyone has their preferences, and popularity does certainly does factor into everything at the end of the day, but it's never been such a big deal as to be the determining factor for the final roster. I think Ridley, K.Rool, Isaac, Wolf etc... fans can vouch for that.

The aura mechanic doesn't really "reward" bad play. The most successful Lucario users are those that are skilled enough to stay alive to make proper use of the aura mechanic and try to cause as much damage as possible to their opponent before they start getting hyped up by aura. A Lucario user that's playing bad is going to quickly find themselves down a stock, which means that they won't be able to utilize their aura because they don't have it anymore. Every player knows this, and if they can't get rid of him before he can start unleashing serious damage then they themselves should be considered to be playing just as bad as they think the Lucario user is. If you play bad with ANY character, even Lucario, you're going to lose. It's as simple as that. Unless you get a damn lucky shot.

That's the main "point" of the rage mechanic too, but I still think it doesn't work. No matter how you spin it, the character gets better the more damage it takes, and in Lucario's case he not only gets stronger, but gets more frames on hitboxes, and gets a better recovery. So whether it's keeping a bad player in the game, or giving a good player a slight advantage, I still think it's a cheap mechanic that causes many questionable matches.

He wasn't quite the face of Pokemon, just the 4th Gen. But Lucario is EASILY the most recognizable Pokemon from that era. I never said anything about you having to care about Lucario. If you don't like him, you don't like him, and that's all there is to it. All I said was that there are a lot of us that do, which kinda falls into Sakurai's popularity checklist, as well as him being relevant in modern era of Pokemon, which Sakurai also counts(or so he says).

My roster, isn't really built on how Sakurai builds his rosters, nor do I think it should be. With mine, I attempted to eliminate clones, genericness(although, because of my own biases I failed on this one), over-repping, and gimmicky mechanics I don't think work(also biased, but more based on opinion). While popularity plays a factor, for me, a character has to go through so many other "checks" to make it, which Lucario clearly didn't.

This isn't just me cutting characters I hate either; I hate Ness, Little Mac, Rosalina, and ROB way more than Lucario, but they all "fit" much better than the cuts in my opinion, so I kept them.

Sceptile is one I can imagine showing up, if Sakurai ever decides to have a grass-type starter show up again. The others seem too.....out of the blue, but that's just me.

Sceptile's a good choice, I wouldn't mind seeing him.

Like I said, I was half expecting Lucario to be replaced by a newer Pokemon, like Zoroark, because I saw its popularity flare up in a similar manner to Lucario(appealing design, movie to its credit, etc.). Don't know what could've become of Charizard, though.

I don't think anyone's being salty right now. I mean this is all just for the hell of it so there really is no reason to be totally serious about it. I will say this though, cutting characters out of spite might land you in hot water, so good thing you aren't Sakurai.

.....Though doing that kind of thing would be funny, just to see how much people would rage.

Right now I have no reason to think Sakurai did anything less with Wolf, so yeah. I could deal with some fan hate here, and there, it's bound to happen anyway. The only character I cut out of pure hate was Wii Fit Trainer, so if any WFT wants to come at me for it just let me know.

*sees Zesty talks about Lucario*

*grabs him*

You were saying?

Perhaps maybe tweak Lucario's gimmick around a little? Doesn't have to be about the aura or anything, but I can understand if you don't like him

In what ways do you think the Aura to be tweaked?

The more I see these rosters, the more I'm glad the fans aren't the makers.
>one cut Charizard and Lucario
>one had Piplup
>one had Doctor Who and a Sailor Moon (not video game characters)
>people who cut Dark Pit despite him having tons of potential
>too many third parties
>completely random Pokémon picks
>one had two Shovel Knight characters

And other nonsensical stuff

Yeah cutting two Pokemon is totally the same as putting in Dr. Who.

Plus it's not like I added a bunch of repetitive characters to mine, like characters that have practically the same movesets as their counterpart, and offer very little to the actual game. That would be ridiculous. Or or just imagine adding something as generic as that personal trainer from that one game where you actually try and get physically fit. What a terrible choice that would have been. Thank the lords we can trust Sakurai to make all of the right decisions.

 

[Doctor3AM]

My Roster
Everyone from Sm4sh minus Dr. Mario,Lucina,Greninja, (please don't kill me), and Mii FIGHTERS (not Miis)
EDIT: Forgot: Wolf, Popo & Nana, Snake
Newcomers!
Toad (Super Mario Bros.)
K.Rool (Donkey Kong Country)
Mini Kangaroo (Nintendo Mini Games)
Impa (The Legend of Zelda)
Tingle (The Legend of Zelda Majora's Mask)
Ridley (Sakurai's Tears)
Bandana Dee (Kirby Super Star)
Samurai Goroh (F-Zero)
Blastoise (Pokemon Red & Green)
Zoroark *placeholder for Gen 7/8 Pokemon* (Pokemon Black & White)
Excitebiker (Excitebike)
Isaac (Golden Sun)
Chibi-Robo (Chibi-Robo! Plug into Adventure)
Marshal (Rhythm Heaven)
Mii (Wii Sports)
Nintendog & Trainer (nintendogs)
Inkling (Splatoon)
Black Mage (Final Fantasy)
18 newcomers, the same amount as Brawl and Sm4sh

 

[Schnee117]

more deserving characters

more deserving characters.

Please define. They're tossed about so much and people have different definitions in regards to the Smash roster.
Is Dark Pit worthy of being on the roster? He's Pit's rival. He's more than worthy despite only one appearance. I'd keep him in due to that alone.

Anyway...

This roster is in assumption that there are 4 DLC characters left for SSB4 and that they are: Wolf, King K Rool, Isaac and Bandanna Dee.

Changes to the SSB4 roster include:

Spoiler

- Receives some very slight changes such as using his sword for tilts and using Warlock Blade as the default Special move over Warlock Punch but with an increase in power slightly.

- She has her Great Lord outfit giving her the use of a shield which can block projectiles and slightly decrease damage taken. Some of her specials have been replaced by skills she can learn in Awakening such as Aether which replaces Shield Breaker as a chargeable, two hit attack that restores slight health on the first hit and has a powerful second strike. She has some different aerial attacks namely the move from Awakening where she and Chrom spin in the air like Sonic. Her final Smash is also changed to her performing the Awakening. She also has an alt for Chrom. Her Falchion is just a bit weaker than a tippered Marth.

- Morgan replaces Chrom in the Final Smash.

- Gains a projectile in place of Double Edge Dance.

- The Electroshock arm is replaced by the Violet Palm which acts as a command grab similar to Ganondorf but instead of instantly acting Dark Pit has a new variety of throws to use which can be used for combos. His down air is changed to his divekick he used in Chapter 9. Dark Pit's style is overall much more reckless than Pit's so he deals greater damage but can't take as much. His Bow is replaced by a First Blade and as such his Neutral B is now a horizontal slash with the First Blade that also fires shots along the arc of the Blade's swing.

- Wario's moveset is a balance between Wario Land/World and Warioware. Wario's throws are now more inspired by his moves in Wario World such as the Piledriver and the Wild Swing Ding. Wario regains his shoulder barge as his dash attack.

- Don't completely suck.

- Her final smash is changed to be more in line with her special move in Hyrule Warriors when she uses the Goddess' Harp.

Returning characters from past games.
- Just as they were
- Now with skins referencing Old Snake and the various forms of Big Boss. His Final Smash is changed to Metal Gear REX.

Newcomers:

Spoiler

Paper Mario - "Really? A third Mario? Why not Geno/Daisy/Fawful/King Boo etc.?" Because it's my roster and I feel Paper Mario is more deserving than them. He's the main protagonist of the Paper Mario series (obviously) and boasts a lot of potential from his dash attack being his spin from the earlier Paper Mario games to using the Crystal Stars in his Final Smash. He boasts superior jumping abilities and is floatier as a result. This makes him easier to launch. He also uses a hammer for various attacks which have some decent strength and knockback to them.

Waluigi - He's been waiting long enough. Waluigi has a moveset completely made up for himself where he uses his whip from Strikers Charged and has the ability to grow thorn bushes to trap enemies and create great space for himself. He also uses Basketballs and Footballs to strike at his opponents from afar whilst primarily using a hockey stick or his long legs up close to create breathing room.

Dixie Kong - One of Nintendo's most important female characters and a main character in the DK series. Whilst she boasts similar attributes to Diddy she has many different capabilities such as utilising her hair for grabs and a tether recovery. She also boasts an electric guitar that can be used as a club. At worst she's a semi-clone. At best she's very unique.

Ridley - I really needn't explain how he'd play when there's a mod for Project M that encompasses this perfectly already.

Dark Samus - Main villain of the Prime trilogy. Despite being "Dark Samus" it'd actually fight very differently to Samus incorporating various Phazon abilities to deal damage over time and using techniques it used as an assist trophy.

Azura - One of the main characters of Fire Emblem Fates. People have been clamouring for an FE character that doesn't have a sword. Here she is. Alongside using a Lance she boasts aquatic abilities and as a Songstress/Dancer she's able to use these to have a graceful moveset as well as give her temporary buffs to help her out in a pinch. As her artwork shows her using a Blessed lance this let's her heal some small damage mid-match but she can only do so a limited amount of times before having to recharge.

Ganon - A different Ganon to the one in Ganondorf's Final Smash. Ganon is a brute character actively wielding a Trident which can be thrown. Much like the King of Disrespect he utilizes Dark Magic to enhance attacks and send out rings of fire to the opponents. Being one of the biggest and heaviest characters he boasts super armour on several attacks allowing him to tank hits and dish out even more pain.

Impa - Borrowing from her Hyrule Warriors appearance Impa makes use of a Naginata that boasts fire capabilities. She also makes use of various Shiekah techniques during battle to surprise her foes such as summoning more Blade's from the ground and manipulating fire itself.

Porky Minch - Again boasting a made up moveset Porky has an appearance not to dissimilar from Doctor Octopus where he has extra arms that allow for him to deal quick barrages of jabs. Being a fat child he is rather slow and heavy but compensates with his variety of gadgets from explosive robots that look like him to his Spider Mech that is used in his Final Smash.

Black Shadow - Being Captain Falcon's arch enemy Black Shadow has a very violent side to him which he reflects during his races and in his fighting style. He launches strikes of sheer brute force and the horns on his outfit aren't for show. He also boasts voodoo magic that he can use to manipulate enemies and the battlefield itself. His car, Black Bull, is used much like Captain Falcon's Blue Falcon in the Final Smash to violently slam into enemies.

Elma - the BLADE captain from Xenoblade X. Elma is the main protagonist of Xenoblade X (Cross is just a viewpoint from which the player experiences the story) and possesses a fighting style that follows a mix between Dual Blades and Dual Guns aswell as the unique skills Shadow Strike and Ghost Stage that her class, FullMetal Alchemist Jaguar grants her. She can use her various arts in her moveset as well as her Skell for her Final Smash.

Wonder Red - The star of the Wonderful 101. Red's moveset would just be basic punches and kicks enhanced by fire. That is if he wasn't backed up by his team of Centinels including Blue, Green, Pink, Yellow, White and Black allowing for usage of Swords and Electricity, Guns, Whips, Hammers, Ice and Claws plus Time-slowing bombs respectively. Red's variety of attacks allows for great mix-ups in his attacks allowing for the element of surprise. Red can charge each of the Unite Morphs allowing for slower but stronger attacks. The final smash involves the Platinum Robo engaging the Final attack used against the Final Boss (I ain't typing all that out but he would say that).

Chibi-Robo - A tiny robot sized up for battle. Chibi is a light fighter but he possess great potential in the right hands with his tools. He can use his Plug to grab enemies and tether onto ledges, a mug to shield himself and a blaster he can use to attack beyond the range of his plug. A chibi copter can be used much like the propeller suit in Mario to aid in recovery.

Takamaru - A samurai with skilled use of magic. Being a Samurai his usage of the sword will already be unique and his magic is unlike other swordfighters. His Katana can reflect projectiles and he can use explosive electric magic to deal heavy damage. He can use Shurikens and the more powerful fireballs to attack from a distance. He can also sneak around enemies with his invisibility cloak.

Black Mage - An icon of the Final Fantasy series, which is in turn iconic in it'sown right, and very efficient at Magic. They can attack using daggers up close allowing for them to hold their own but this isn't very strong. Due to their variety of magic they can catch foes off guard with different magic attacks and even Focus to strengthen their magic attacks. They're best kept a good distance from many foes.

That's that. Remember it's assuming Wolf, K.Rool, Isaac and Bandanna Dee are DLC for SSB4.

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

"Random" is supposed to be Captain Fleming from Code Name S.T.E.A.M, "Fire Emblem" is Corrin from Fire Emblem: Fates and "Pokemon" is a 7th gen Pokemon

Every character from smash 4 comes back except for Doctor Mario who I cut for Paper Mario. Wolf and Ice Climbers also return from Brawl. Dark Pit and Lucina return, this time further decloned.

 

[Geno Boost]

Please define. They're tossed about so much and people have different definitions in regards to the Smash roster.
Is Dark Pit worthy of being on the roster? He's Pit's rival. He's more than worthy despite only one appearance. I'd keep him in due to that alone.

just because he is Pit rival doesnt mean he represent something important or special even Medusa is more worthly than him because of her being a villain wich is something that smash needs more, also having 3 character from a very small franchise is not good idea unless if they are main characters like MOTHER seires Ness/Lucas/Ninten, look at my Roster for Example each one of the newcomers that i added represent something special or important in the history.

 

[Sir Gengar de Èctoplasma]

Please define. They're tossed about so much and people have different definitions in regards to the Smash roster.

Well, these are the definitions/criterias that I used for my roster:

1. The character is important in the series he/she comes from
2. The character has moveset potential
3. The character is from a series that is underrepresented / from non-represented, non-obscure series
4. The character has fan demand

These don't apply to retro and third-party characters, they have different criterias.

If Dark Pit is a last-minute clone, he doesn't really need to pass these criterias, as he is just an "extra" and doesn't take much development time. Dark Pit getting a moveset overhaul is a different case, as it would actually take development time. Dark Pit debatably passes the first criteria and also passes the second criteria, but fails the two last ones: KI is just fine with Pit and Palutena and it has a lot of non-character content as well, and he didn't have much demand pre-SSB4 either.

King K. Rool, Dixie Kong, Isaac, Wolf, Inkling and Chibi-Robo pass all four criterias. Bandana Dee passing the third criteria is debatable and Captain Toad fails the third criteria, but they pass the other criterias.

(New Pokemon and new FE protagonist were included because every Smash from Melee onwards includes one; neither were chosen because of my criterias)

 

[Mario123311]

What I can see being an actual console roster if anything, I'll also include a dream "Fangame" roster on this thread later but there 'ya go. Also one thing that would be especially improved is custom moves, For example: You can finally have the Wario you dreamed of with a Shoulder Bash and Earthquake Punch, Pac-Man with his moves from Pac-Man World and even Mario with a groundpound or hammer tossing. Please note Piplup is there for Author Appeal, if it was someone else: I am sure it would be different unfortunently... Still should have filled in for Pichu in Brawl. :U

((Also, on the subject of Mario: He's more happy akin to his canon appearance. His appearance would be similar to Melee with the detailed textures but with much brighter colors akin to his actual self and all. The best I can compare it to is this))

Decided to try and remake something I just did, Just to get more organized and whatnot.

Also I just wanna bring up the subject of DLC: Down below are characters I would suggest to be added as ideas or whatnot to the team at Nintendo after the games release. It would be up to them weither or not who would possibly get in, and seeing how DLC for SSB4 is still questionable, It's all I can really say: "Suggestions to the team".

EDIT: I just realized I forgot to add the rest of the 2 costumes (Ms. Pac-Man, Dark Pit) and I added 2 lucinas... Hang on, I gotta fix something X_X

DOUBLE EDIT: Fixed, finally.

 

[Sir Gengar de Èctoplasma]

View attachment 68523



Decided to try and remake something I just did, Just to get more organized and whatnot.

Also I just wanna bring up the subject of DLC: Down below are characters I would suggest to be added as ideas or whatnot to the team at Nintendo after the games release. It would be up to them weither or not who would possibly get in, and seeing how DLC for SSB4 is still questionable, It's all I can really say: "Suggestions to the team".

I have a question: All non-clone veterans are either in your main roster or in your "suggestions" except Wolf. Why he isn't in either?

 

[Schnee117]

just because he is Pit rival doesnt mean he represent something important or special even Medusa is more worthly than him because of her being a villain wich is something that smash needs more, also having 3 character from a very small franchise is not good idea unless if they are main characters like MOTHER seires Ness/Lucas/Ninten, look at my Roster for Example each one of the newcomers that i added represent something special or important in the history.

Are you implying that a rival isn't a main character? In Kid Icarus' case we have Pit, the main protagonist, Palutena, who acts either as the damsel in distress or guides Pit along, and then we have Dark Pit, Pit's rival who now works for Viridi. Need I remind you that outside of the Gods, Dark Pit was one of, if not the most prominent characters in Uprising?

And look at my roster. K Rool, Ridley, Dark Samus, Black Shadow, Ganon and Porky are added (though K rool is DLC for SSB4 in my situation). What makes Medusa so special compared to them? Especially considering Hades is actually the Main Antagonist. Medusa was just a pawn for him to use.

Remember that Sakurai doesn't like cuts and that's the mentality I worked with.

I'm not even addressing the many issues your roster has.

Well, these are the definitions/criterias that I used for my roster:

1. The character is important in the series he/she comes from
2. The character has moveset potential
3. The character is from a series that is underrepresented / from non-represented, non-obscure series
4. The character has fan demand

These don't apply to retro and third-party characters, they have different criterias.

If Dark Pit is a last-minute clone, he doesn't really need to pass these criterias, as he is just an "extra" and doesn't take much development time. Dark Pit getting a moveset overhaul is a different case, as it would actually take development time. Dark Pit debatably passes the first criteria and also passes the second criteria, but fails the two last ones: KI is just fine with Pit and Palutena and it has a lot of non-character content as well, and he didn't have much demand pre-SSB4 either.

King K. Rool, Dixie Kong, Isaac, Wolf, Inkling and Chibi-Robo pass all four criterias. Bandana Dee passing the third criteria is debatable and Captain Toad fails the third criteria, but they pass the other criterias.

(New Pokemon and new FE protagonist were included because every Smash from Melee onwards includes one; neither were chosen because of my criterias)

Being a rival is a pretty big thing in terms of importance.
Remember that Sakurai decided the roster back in 2012. go against the fan demand thing. wasn't known to us then, was only in Japan around then and was only in Japan and Europe prior that.
Criteria 3 seems to be more of an opinion thing anyway. I'd argue 3 reps is alright for Kid Icarus. 4 is pushing it really.

 

[Mario123311]

I have a question: All non-clone veterans are either in your main roster or in your "suggestions" except Wolf. Why he isn't in either?

I never really played Wolf that much in Brawl in all honesty, and (I'm sorry if you hate me for saying this) but I don't see much reason to include him fully unless it's DLC I guess... But I suppose he can be included. Again, Sorry if I am sounding like an idiot here.



I definently can't see him being an Alt for Fox though so he has to be in somehow now that I think about it.

 

[Sir Gengar de Èctoplasma]

Being a rival is a pretty big thing in terms of importance.
Remember that Sakurai decided the roster back in 2012. go against the fan demand thing. wasn't known to us then, was only in Japan around then and was only in Japan and Europe prior that.
Criteria 3 seems to be more of an opinion thing anyway. I'd argue 3 reps is alright for Kid Icarus. 4 is pushing it really.

I said that those were my criterias, that I used for my roster. I assumed that you were asking me to tell my criterias.

And yes, I know that Greninja and Robin were included as "new Pokemon" and "new FE protagonist" as every game seems to have one.

 

[Schnee117]

I said that those were my criterias, that I used for my roster. I assumed that you were asking me to tell my criterias.

And yes, I know that Greninja and Robin were included as "new Pokemon" and "new FE protagonist" as every game seems to have one.

I'm basically saying how can fit all the criteria you have and how previous characters haven't followed it so it allows for some leeway with a few characters.

 

[Kenith]

I never really played Wolf that much in Brawl in all honesty, and (I'm sorry if you hate me for saying this) but I don't see much reason to include him fully unless it's DLC I guess... But I suppose he can be included. Again, Sorry if I am sounding like an idiot here.
I definently can't see him being an Alt for Fox though so he has to be in somehow now that I think about it.

The intense rivalry between Star Fox and Star Wolf is one of the more iconic parts of Starfox, imo.
I feel like it should be represented in some way...preferably with Wolf.

 

[FunAtParties]

I'm basically saying how can fit all the criteria you have and how previous characters haven't followed it so it allows for some leeway with a few characters.

I mean, you could argue that Dark Pit doesn't really have the moveset potential, comes from an overrepped series, and doesn't have enough fan demand to justify a return. You could easily argue for it or against it either way really, it comes down to personal definitions of each which @ Sir Gengar de Èctoplasma has made his pretty clear.

 

[Schnee117]

I mean, you could argue that Dark Pit doesn't really have the moveset potential, comes from an overrepped series, and doesn't have enough fan demand to justify a return. You could easily argue for it or against it either way really, it comes down to personal definitions of each which @ Sir Gengar de Èctoplasma has made his pretty clear.

That's true but I prefer no characters get cut which is where I'm coming from really.
Unless it's Roy but then the Roy fanboys would have my hide

 

[Sir Gengar de Èctoplasma]

I'm basically saying how can fit all the criteria you have and how previous characters haven't followed it so it allows for some leeway with a few characters.

Different opinions. You think that three is fine for KI, I think that two is enough.

And of course previous characters didn't follow my criterias, I didn't choose them, and some of them (ex. Sheik) are in my roster solely because they are veterans.

 

[FunAtParties]

That's true but I prefer no characters get cut which is where I'm coming from really.
Unless it's Roy but then the Roy fanboys would have my hide

I'm the exact opposite really. If I had my way, I'd scrap a third of the roster, but once again, everyone has their preferences. I've already had to defend my cut of Lucario a couple times today.

 

[Geno Boost]

Are you implying that a rival isn't a main character? In Kid Icarus' case we have Pit, the main protagonist, Palutena, who acts either as the damsel in distress or guides Pit along, and then we have Dark Pit, Pit's rival who now works for Viridi. Need I remind you that outside of the Gods, Dark Pit was one of, if not the most prominent characters in Uprising?

And look at my roster. K Rool, Ridley, Dark Samus, Black Shadow, Ganon and Porky are added (though K rool is DLC for SSB4 in my situation). What makes Medusa so special compared to them? Especially considering Hades is actually the Main Antagonist. Medusa was just a pawn for him to use.

Remember that Sakurai doesn't like cuts and that's the mentality I worked with.

I'm not even addressing the many issues your roster has.

i ment "main protagonist", Dark Pit isnt, also as i said this franchise is very small to have 3 characters unless if they are main protagonist

to be honest Medusa isnt special as much as the other villain but she at least represent Kid Icarus villain, also Medusa was Main Antagonist in the NES kid icarus plus she appeared in Captain N.

 

[~Krystal~]

I'm honestly surprised the Lucario cut is the thing I have to defend. I was expecting some of the clone lovers to flame about the demotions, or get some weird controversy of the Zelda/Sheik mash-up, but not Lucario.

Cutting a Pokemon is like cutting a bomb wire. I was hesitant to eliminate even Greninja for fear of fan backlash.

Right now I have no reason to think Sakurai did anything less with Wolf, so yeah. I could deal with some fan hate here, and there, it's bound to happen anyway. The only character I cut out of pure hate was Wii Fit Trainer, so if any WFT wants to come at me for it just let me know.

I want to lay into you for this. How could you not like WFT?! Ugh! Wait here while I think up a scary threat. Seriously though, I liked your roster! The Charizard and Lucario cuts stood out yes, but they aren't as HUGELY important to me as they are to others. Believe me when I say there are dozens of super popular Pokemon to choose from. Charizard and Lucario are not the face of the franchise, I'm sorry. Only Pikachu and arguably Mewtwo have the kind of importance necessary to reel in money from the general fanbase. Here's what I liked about your roster:

-Adds highly requested newcomers: Impa, Midna, Dixie, King K. Rool, Ashley, Krystal, Ridley, et al.
-Gives Ganondorf a way to set himself apart from Captain Falcon.
-Faithfully reintegrates Wario's iconic shoulder bash move.
-Cuts a character I believe was an abysmal DLC choice. Sorry, after SF II, SF III, SF IV, MvC2, MvC3, Tatsunoko vs. Capcom: Ultimate All-Stars, and the entire Street Fighter Alpha series, I didn't feel like Ryu was anything new. He played exactly the way I expected him to. It's the novelty of having him in Smash that seems to be the lure I guess. I know someone will almost certainly come at me for this.

So yeah, all in all, I found your roster to be extremely creative and all the same very fanservicey.

 

[Schnee117]

i ment "main protagonist", Dark Pit isnt, also as i said this franchise is very small to have 3 characters unless if they are main protagonist

to be honest Medusa isnt special as much as the other villain but she at least represent Kid Icarus villain, also Medusa was Main Antagonist in the NES kid icarus plus she appeared in Captain N.

Captain N is as irrelevant as the Mario Comics you love to bring up in regards to Geno. NOT A VIDEOGAME.
Hades was behind everything that happened in Kid Icarus. He said as much in the game. Did you actually play Uprising?

 

[Geno Boost]

Captain N is irrelevant as the Mario Comics you love to bring up in regards to Geno. NOT A VIDEOGAME.
Hades was behind everything that happened in Kid Icarus. He said as much in the game. Did you actually play Uprising?

Saying Captain N doesn't count is like saying "R.O.B. saving the video game industry doesn't count because he wasnt in a video game"
The backstory doesn't matter, Nightmare was also behind a lot of things that happend in the Kirby seires that doesn't mean he should take King Dedede place.
it's MY choices picking characters for my roster after all and you can pick whatever you want in your roster.

 

[Schnee117]

Saying Captain N doesn't count is like saying "R.O.B. saving the video game industry doesn't count because he wasnt in a video game"
The backstory doesn't matter, Nightmare was also behind a lot of things that happend in the Kirby seires that doesn't mean he should take King Dedede place.
it's MY choices picking characters for my roster after all and you can pick whatever you want in your roster.

Except ROB came with the NES system and starred in a few games. Captain N was just a TV show that had various Nintendo characters in it. It doesn't make Medusa special at all.
Nightmare was only behind a few of the events in the games he was in.
And we're allowed to debate choices. I find that your cuts and some additions to the roster are silly and in some cases hypocritical.

 

[dangeraaron10]

Somehow I knew this would turn into a big argument.

@ Schnee117 is using my Great Lord Lucina sword n' shield idea, I hope this catches on!

 

[Schnee117]

Somehow I knew this would turn into a big argument.

@ Schnee117 is using my Great Lord Lucina sword n' shield idea, I hope this catches on!

There's loads of ideas for Lucina being different. I don't see why people say "Not much potential to be different"
She can use her shield.
She can use Lances as well as Parallel Falchion.
She has Skills which Marth doesn't have.

It's just picking one of those ideas so she isn't completely different. The crux of her character involved imitating Marth so some similarities should be retained. That's something that should be kept in mind with Lucina.

 

[Doctor3AM]

After seeing the potential of Dr. Mario and Lucina as decloned characters.... Imma go remake everything I thought up

 

[Geno Boost]

Except ROB came with the NES system and starred in a few games. Captain N was just a TV show that had various Nintendo characters in it. It doesn't make Medusa special at all.
Nightmare was only behind a few of the events in the games he was in.
And we're allowed to debate choices. I find that your cuts and some additions to the roster are silly and in some cases hypocritical.

Still R.O.B. Was not IN the video game as you told me it should count ONLY if a character was in.
More appearance = bigger character
As I said the backstory still doesn't matter.
I also find some of your choices silly wow...

 

[Doctor3AM]

While Geno Boost is digging himself into a hole, let's talk about who would be the Nintendo puzzle character. Dr. Mario or Lip? Since Dr. Mario is already in the game, I personally see him as a bettter fit. Plus Dr. Mario is a more developed game series.

 

[dangeraaron10]

I really think people will be pleasantly surprised by the clone corner if they had their own movesets. I honestly feel this is the better alternative to gutting them outright.

Also @ Schnee117 I think the Great Lord sword n'board Lucina would fit perfectly. It would make her a fusion of and rather than just without tipper. Basically retaining the crux of 's graceful swordplay while not having to focus on positioning, and because she want be using bows, boomerangs, hookshots, bombs, or other stuff employs, that leaves her other moves (like specials) to be shield oriented ones. Link only uses his shield defensively to block projectiles, I think Lucina should be using her butterfly mask shield offensively as a weapon. To the point where equipping weapons would replace Parallel Flachion instead of her shield. This could make for a much different mindset when playing Lucina, although focusing on fast but weak sword strikes to catch foes off balance before bringing in a shield bash to stun or shield throw as a projectile (I don't even care if it's similar to Link's boomerang, if anything people would just still think what it is, a fusion of Link and Marth.)

While Geno Boost is digging himself into a hole, let's talk about who would be the Nintendo puzzle character. Dr. Mario or Lip? Since Dr. Mario is already in the game, I personally see him as a bettter fit. Plus Dr. Mario is a more developed game series.

Dr. Mario is more recognizable too. Not many people know who Lip is or care to do so, outside of the Lip's Stick item. Many retro gamers are at least somewhat familiar with the Dr. Mario games. Sans that, it's Mario in a Dr. outfit which has its own appeal in itself. Fans of the Tornado down special also have the good doctor for that (if only his cape could be used as a recovery). Plus, Melee and Smash 4 veteran (the Melee vet status he still dangles over the likes of Lucina and Dark Pit at any rate).

 

[Doctor3AM]

Especially with Dr. Luigi and Miracle Cure. Plus, he could reference Panel De Pon or the Yoshi puzzle games. While still keeping that same playstyle.

 

[Autumn ♫]

Green are the alts. The Pokemon Icon is whatever the next big new generation Pokemon is at the time.
Forgot to give Peach a Daisy alt.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Ooh, this is fun. Took a while to get a roster down, but here it is...

65 unique character movesets in 59 slots (so there's still some room for DLC characters...whatever other people want)

Blue: Starter (32)
Yellow: Unlockable (22)
Red: DLC (5)

Also, many characters have alternates:
Mario: Dr. Mario
Marth: Lucina
Pit: Dark Pit
Bowser Jr.: the Koopalings
Olimar: Alph, Brittany, Charlie, etc.

For the two open slots - Fire Emblem is Azura, Kid Icarus is someone from that series, possibly Medusa, Viridi, or Hades.

Ganondorf gets a new moveset based on Hyrule Warriors, his old moveset goes to Black Shadow. Toon Link's specials are more in-line with Wind Waker. Transformation moves are back. Mario goes back to his Melee Dspecial, with FLUDD as a custom (and he also has a custom for vitamins). Pit gets his Brawl customs back with the new ones as customs.

Newcomers:
Daisy (Mario)
Waluigi (Mario/Wario)
Midna (Zelda)
Ghirahim (Zelda)
K.Rool (DK)
Ridley (Metroid)
Gardevoir (Pokémon)
Azura (Fire Emblem)
Black Shadow (F-ZERO)
Kid Icarus Character
Isaac (Golden Sun)
Ivy (3rd Party)

 

[FunAtParties]

Cutting a Pokemon is like cutting a bomb wire. I was hesitant to eliminate even Greninja for fear of fan backlash.

I want to lay into you for this. How could you not like WFT?! Ugh! Wait here while I think up a scary threat. Seriously though, I liked your roster! The Charizard and Lucario cuts stood out yes, but they aren't as HUGELY important to me as they are to others. Believe me when I say there are dozens of super popular Pokemon to choose from. Charizard and Lucario are not the face of the franchise, I'm sorry. Only Pikachu and arguably Mewtwo have the kind of importance necessary to reel in money from the general fanbase. Here's what I liked about your roster:

-Adds highly requested newcomers: Impa, Midna, Dixie, King K. Rool, Ashley, Krystal, Ridley, et al.
-Gives Ganondorf a way to set himself apart from Captain Falcon.
-Faithfully reintegrates Wario's iconic shoulder bash move.
-Cuts a character I believe was an abysmal DLC choice. Sorry, after SF II, SF III, SF IV, MvC2, MvC3, Tatsunoko vs. Capcom: Ultimate All-Stars, and the entire Street Fighter Alpha series, I didn't feel like Ryu was anything new. He played exactly the way I expected him to. It's the novelty of having him in Smash that seems to be the lure I guess. I know someone will almost certainly come at me for this.

So yeah, all in all, I found your roster to be extremely creative and all the same very fanservicey.

Thanks! I was hoping someone would actually look into the newcomers and support the Ryu cut. I'm also sorry about the WFT thing. I just don't like her/him, they seem so generic to me. I really think it would be better appropriated as an Assist Trophy (doing the Final Smash) than a fully fledged character, but I don't know it could be reconsidered in time. I think I added the ultimate troll character in Goku(from Yuyuki), so I like to think I earned that cut.

 

[Schnee117]

Still R.O.B. Was not IN the video game as you told me it should count ONLY if a character was in.
More appearance = bigger character
As I said the backstory still doesn't matter.
I also find some of your choices silly wow...

- When ROB was released he was released alongside Stack Up. There's a huge difference between a peripheral for a games console like ROB and a TV Show based on gaming like Captain N.

- And yet you argue Geno is more important than Paper Mario because he was in SMRPG and all that BS about linking SE and Nintendo as well as being in the first Mario RPG game. Hypocrisy aside Medusa was revealed to be Hades' puppet. That gives Hades a higher position.

- The only ones I'd personally call silly for myself are Black Shadow and maybe Waluigi. Point them out for me. Geno, Bomberman and Nester are silly to me. Ryu, Rosalina, Robin and Greninja's reasons for being cut are ridiculous (fan reasoning (yeah let's cut the iconic fighting game character because of "muh stupid fan rules"), Not a fighter and... being relevant (WTF?), They wanted Chrom instead so let's get rid of a unique character for one that could serve as an alt for an existing character , random Pokemon (That so happened to get Popular and possesses a unique moveset) respectively) . Snake being left out in favour of Bomberman is what makes him silly especially because you say Bomberman is more iconic than Metal Gear. It isn't. Metal Gear (41.2 million) has sold far more than Bomberman (10 million) as of this day with Phantom Pain coming out in almost 2 weeks and the games constantly win various awards earning them even greater recognition. Remind me which of the two is referenced in Team Fortress 2? Hint: It's not Bomberman. Geno is Geno, forever a silly choice, especially when Black Mage, Cloud, Kefka , Slime and Lara Croft exist. Nester contradicts your reasoning for Rosalina being cut. He isn't a fighter. Your contradictory logic makes it silly.

 

[~Krystal~]

Thanks! I was hoping someone would actually look into the newcomers and support the Ryu cut. I'm also sorry about the WFT thing. I just don't like her/him, they seem so generic to me. I really think it would be better appropriated as an Assist Trophy (doing the Final Smash) than a fully fledged character, but I don't know it could be reconsidered in time. I think I added the ultimate troll character in Goku(from Yuyuki), so I like to think I earned that cut.

No apology necessary. *hugs*

I'd like to thank you for giving me a different perspective on them... And for Goku, a big reason I upvoted that roster.

 

[FunAtParties]

My realistic roster would probably look something like this.

Blue = Unlocked
Red = Locked
Green = Alt. Costume
Also sorry about that weird overlapping glitch with CommanderVideo and Shovel Knight.

But if we're going all out here, then

God. I haven't seen Koopa Troopa on a roster since before Brawl. Takes me back.

I never knew how perfectly Commander Video fit with the rest of the cast. Awesome pick.

 

[SimonBarSinister]

I'm honestly surprised the Lucario cut is the thing I have to defend. I was expecting some of the clone lovers to flame about the demotions, or get some weird controversy of the Zelda/Sheik mash-up, but not Lucario.

Really? I figured if you realize how popular Lucario is you'd actually expect someone to call you out on that, even if it wasn't me. Well, someone did before me, I just kinda jumped on the train.

Clones are something I can take or leave, though there are some that I do like(such as Doc, and I have a bit of a soft spot for Dark Pit). But if I identify a clone as having moveset potential, I'd much rather them stick around long enough to be Luigified over being flat out cut.

I mean the majority of Lucario's popularity comes from the East too. Everyone has their preferences, and popularity does certainly does factor into everything at the end of the day, but it's never been such a big deal as to be the determining factor for the final roster. I think Ridley, K.Rool, Isaac, Wolf etc... fans can vouch for that.

We say determining factor, but I don't think it's as simple as a checklist that guarantees a character's inclusion. They are eligible for consideration, yes, but it's still either a hard YES or NO after much deliberation.

We can only guess at why a character like Wolf didn't return for Smash 4. Only the man himself knows the answer to that question, but it's not like any of us can just go and ask him. He did give some specifics on Ridley, though.

That's the main "point" of the rage mechanic too, but I still think it doesn't work. No matter how you spin it, the character gets better the more damage it takes, and in Lucario's case he not only gets stronger, but gets more frames on hitboxes, and gets a better recovery. So whether it's keeping a bad player in the game, or giving a good player a slight advantage, I still think it's a cheap mechanic that causes many questionable matches.

We probably could've done without the rage mechanic, but it's here, so all we can do is adapt to it.

My roster, isn't really built on how Sakurai builds his rosters, nor do I think it should be. With mine, I attempted to eliminate clones, genericness(although, because of my own biases I failed on this one), over-repping, and gimmicky mechanics I don't think work(also biased, but more based on opinion). While popularity plays a factor, for me, a character has to go through so many other "checks" to make it, which Lucario clearly didn't.

Fair enough, it's your roster in a hypothetical situation.

This isn't just me cutting characters I hate either; I hate Ness, Little Mac, Rosalina, and ROB way more than Lucario, but they all "fit" much better than the cuts in my opinion, so I kept them.

Define "fit", because right now I can't see how any of the aforementioned characters fit in more than Lucario.

Sceptile's a good choice, I wouldn't mind seeing him.

Don't quite know how popular he is compared to the others of his generation, but I'm sure he's well liked.

Right now I have no reason to think Sakurai did anything less with Wolf, so yeah. I could deal with some fan hate here, and there, it's bound to happen anyway. The only character I cut out of pure hate was Wii Fit Trainer, so if any WFT wants to come at me for it just let me know.

I heard that Sakurai and his team really like Wolf, though I can't say how true that is. Maybe he just didn't have the time to be fully implemented into the game. Like I said, none of us really know why. DLC is his best chance now.

Yeah cutting two Pokemon is totally the same as putting in Dr. Who.

Plus it's not like I added a bunch of repetitive characters to mine, like characters that have practically the same movesets as their counterpart, and offer very little to the actual game. That would be ridiculous. Or or just imagine adding something as generic as that personal trainer from that one game where you actually try and get physically fit. What a terrible choice that would have been. Thank the lords we can trust Sakurai to make all of the right decisions.

Yep. All hail Lord Sakurai.

 

[Mario123311]

I don't mean to sound like an attention ***** or anything... But if you have any critiques on my Roster above or questions, feel free to ask.


Really, Judging with how popular Lucario was and so on, Simply cutting him out is bound to raise red flags. The same would have been gone if I cut out Jigglypuff: Excluding the fact that she's one of the original 12.


Also on a lesser subject, I swear I've seen at least 2 rosters that have cut out Pac-Man... All I have to ask is: Why?

((And on my fangame roster, VIA the last page: There is a reason I would allow anyone to add there own custom characters and so on, I don't wanna stop people from having fun and so on. They would have the option to submit their own characters too but it would be up to me [and a number of people] to decide if said character should be in the game. I mean... I never found Goku interesting, But if somebody makes a Goku character and releases it as an unnoffical addon: I honestly couldn't care.))