If you could buff one or two things about Ike, what would they be?

[A_Phoenix_Down]

The most important is snapping the ledge with a backwards aether. I understand why it was done but air dodge was made for a reason.

I'd like to see a faster F-smash or F-tilt simply because its annoying to see this gorilla struggle with swinging the sword around. But I'm greedy.

F-air needs more range.

Quickdraw needs less lag on hit.

Overall I wanna see a faster hitting Ike but again, I'm greedy.

 

[critter17]

My wishlist is:

- Less ending lag on Quick Draw from the air and on ground
- Also fix the Quick Draw hitbox so it doesn't whiff
- Aether snaps ledge backwards (Peach should have the same buff too)
- Uair to start just a little earlier
- Fair has a little more range

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

DSmash kills near the ledge below 99% now.

 

[Yoh]

Noticed nothing, seems exactly the same. character.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

Maybe it was just wishful thinking.

 

[critter17]

Someone from Reddit has said that Ike has a faster running speed but I can't test this out right now. Can someone confirm or deny this?

 

[Yoh]

Feels about the same as before.

 

[Renegade TX2000]

Ikes dsmash is useless, If I see you use it over up smash you will be shot... I wish quick draw had quicker start up. It's actually slower now then it was in brawl but the recovery in smash 4 is better then it was in brawl... Oh yeah about dsmash, it needs to be sped up and you've fixed it. Can't even punish ROLLS with that damn smash when it's meant to punish rolls. Failing ass waste of a move slot

 

[Naf2pro]

Yeah every time I attempt a D-smash on a roll i just get thrown and taunted...guess I have to get used to using U-smash when i actually need a D-smash lol

 

[Renegade TX2000]

Yeah every time I attempt a D-smash on a roll i just get thrown and taunted...guess I have to get used to using U-smash when i actually need a D-smash lol

yeah if they roll dodge the 1st hit, any character in the game can block the 2nd hit. It's that slow. And Quick Draw isn't even a quick Draw. It's a slow draw.

 

[VeteranUnderdog]

Eruption having more uses would be nice, every characters special moves should be used in a smash match. I would like his back air to hit lower so it combos off the ground easier.

 

[Mario766]

Eruption is a fine edgeguard. It has more uses than Brawl, which is an improvement.

 

[Renegade TX2000]

Eruption is a fine edgeguard. It has more uses than Brawl, which is an improvement.

About Eruption is that a 100% edge guarding tool and all you need is good timing?

 

[Mario766]

A lot of recoveries can be edgeguarded.

It's not 100 percent though, you need time to charge and you need superb timing for some of them, but if they don't instantly hit the ledge you can hit them out of it.

 

[the king of murder]

I would love for Brawl Jab cancel to return for Ike. Also Backwards Aether not snapping the edge is kind of aggravating. If his Dash Attack would send opponents in an angle where it becomes a decent combo starter I would be a happy man. Other than that I believe Ike is good to go.

 

[Naf2pro]

Yeah I instinctively try to jab cancel like in brawl but Sakurai just keeps telling me, "no-no-no"

 

[Arrei]

About Eruption is that a 100% edge guarding tool and all you need is good timing?

As far as I know the 1-frame vulnerability on ledge snap is universal for all characters and recoveries. But some characters can avoid it a lot more easily than others by not going for the ledge or stalling for time.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

It's more useful than

As far as I know the 1-frame vulnerability on ledge snap is universal for all characters and recoveries. But some characters can avoid it a lot more easily than others by not going for the ledge or stalling for time.

Not to mention Luigi and Sheik can punish you if Eruption whiffs.

I wonder if Ike could benefit from a Nair autocancel without being broken?

 

[ReroRero]

Almost everything. I main Ike just because I like his character in FIre Emblem but I just want to throw him into the thrash sometimes

- Fair needs more range, it's frustrating to miss a hit that should actually connect (the overhead part)
- Bair needs less ending lag
- F-tilt and U-tilt need to be way FASTER both on startup and endlag
- Quickdraw buffed on everything, range, speed, strength, no helpless state, cancellable...
- More useful grab and throw, maybe a killing throw ?
- Dair, change it
- U air is a little bit slow
- Aether needs more range horizontally and should reach the ledge even backwards
- Coutner is too slow
- Make smash attack useful.
- Give him a projectile like in Path of Radiance

 

[Mario766]

Bair already auto cancels.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Almost everything. I main Ike just because I like his character in FIre Emblem but I just want to throw him into the thrash sometimes

- Fair needs more range, it's frustrating to miss a hit that should actually connect (the overhead part)
- Bair needs less ending lag
- F-tilt and U-tilt need to be way FASTER both on startup and endlag
- Quickdraw buffed on everything, range, speed, strength, no helpless state, cancellable...
- More useful grab and throw, maybe a killing throw ?
- Dair, change it
- U air is a little bit slow
- Aether needs more range horizontally and should reach the ledge even backwards
- Coutner is too slow
- Make smash attack useful.
- Give him a projectile like in Path of Radiance

-Fair is already one of the ones with the most range in the game, just gotta learn to use it correctly
-Bair already auto-cancels, it can't have less ending lag as there is no such thing as negative landing lag
-Ftilt and Utilt have the power of some other characters' smash attacks. Speeding them up would be broken
-QD's only needed buff is no helplessness ever. Everything else about it is fine.
-Ike already has 1) one of the best throw games in the game and 2) already has a killing throw
-Dair could use some work
-Uair is fine considering it can kill air dodges. You do know it starts behind him, not in front of him right?
-Grabbing backwards I agree with, doesn't need more horizontal range
-Counter is exactly the same as Marth and Lucina's, so no
-Smash Attacks already are useful in their niche uses. Usmash is a great landing trap particularly with the increased landing lag from air dodging, Fsmash is for both reads and ledgeguarding, Dsmash is his fastest option and despite what some people think, is in fact fast enough for its job. Still the weakest of the three in overall usefulness, but its not a terrible option like it was in Brawl

Considering the amount of misinformation in your post, I don't think you've actually used Ike much if at all.

 

[PyroTakun]

-Fair is already one of the ones with the most range in the game, just gotta learn to use it correctly
-Bair already auto-cancels, it can't have less ending lag as there is no such thing as negative landing lag
-Ftilt and Utilt have the power of some other characters' smash attacks. Speeding them up would be broken
-QD's only needed buff is no helplessness ever. Everything else about it is fine.
-Ike already has 1) one of the best throw games in the game and 2) already has a killing throw
-Dair could use some work
-Uair is fine considering it can kill air dodges. You do know it starts behind him, not in front of him right?
-Grabbing backwards I agree with, doesn't need more horizontal range
-Counter is exactly the same as Marth and Lucina's, so no
-Smash Attacks already are useful in their niche uses. Usmash is a great landing trap particularly with the increased landing lag from air dodging, Fsmash is for both reads and ledgeguarding, Dsmash is his fastest option and despite what some people think, is in fact fast enough for its job. Still the weakest of the three in overall usefulness, but its not a terrible option like it was in Brawl

Considering the amount of misinformation in your post, I don't think you've actually used Ike much if at all.

I think the endlag to B-Air he's referring to is actually using it in the air. It's insane, especially when compared to DK who can spam multiple B-Airs in one jump, has good range, and is a kill move.

Agree with everything else though. Again, I'll just re-iterate that the only real changes I think he needs is to his D-Air and grabbing the ledge with Aether when facing backwards.

 

[Trueblade]

Just wanna point out two things here

-Ike already has 1) one of the best throw games in the game and 2) already has a killing throw

I'm not sure about that given the rewards the top characters get off a grab. Don't get me wrong, Ike does get a lot of mileage from his grab game, but to say it's one of the best might be pushing it. Also, dthrow only starts killing at 140% if it's fresh and if they're not that heavy.

-Counter is exactly the same as Marth and Lucina's, so no

As far as I'm aware, his counter does actually have slower start-up than Marth and Lucina. I could always be wrong.

That aside, all I really think Ike needs is a backwards snapping Aether, improvements to dair and something for Quick Draw recoveries.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Counter was slower in Brawl, equalized in SSB4.

Ike's Dthrow starts comboing more or less right away. It combos into Nair/Fair/Bair/Uair at various percents for quite a long time. More or less the very moment it stops comboing, Uthrow starts comboing into Nair/Uair/Fair. Importantly, Uthrow combos into Uair at kill percents. And then by the time Uthrow stops comboing, if you somehow managed to not kill them by that point, and Ike with rage is looking at possible kills with Dthrow.

And then there is Fthrow and Bthrow. Instead of being for combos, both are excellent at putting the opponent in a bad position off stage. The paths are almost completely horizontal with very little gained vertically. It does not take long at all before the opponent is being tossed out far enough that they have to double jump to make it back. This makes them predictable, and in turn Ike's edgeguarding options become more and more usable.

On top of all of that, Ike has one of the best pummels in the game. Top 3 or 5 in terms of DPS. Add in the fact that at low percents you can combo into grab off of Nair or Dtilt, and ya its one of the best in the game. Its not Diddy or Luigi... but probably top 5 overall. He doesn't have a not useful throw, and always gets a good reward out of a grab.

 

[GhostUrsa]

As far as I'm aware, his counter does actually have slower start-up than Marth and Lucina. I could always be wrong.

That aside, all I really think Ike needs is a backwards snapping Aether, improvements to dair and something for Quick Draw recoveries.

It starts up slightly slow, has less ending lag and better reach on the sword swing. I'm not sure about the damage scaling though. It could be better then the other FE characters, but that could just be a placebo effect on my part.

The active frames are the same for all counters if I remember right, though.

 

[Deleted member]

1: Yoshi's Crushing Bomb, for greater launch
2: Yoshi's Heavy Egg Roll, for some serious damage.

 

[ReroRero]

-Fair is already one of the ones with the most range in the game, just gotta learn to use it correctly
-Bair already auto-cancels, it can't have less ending lag as there is no such thing as negative landing lag
-Ftilt and Utilt have the power of some other characters' smash attacks. Speeding them up would be broken
-QD's only needed buff is no helplessness ever. Everything else about it is fine.
-Ike already has 1) one of the best throw games in the game and 2) already has a killing throw
-Dair could use some work
-Uair is fine considering it can kill air dodges. You do know it starts behind him, not in front of him right?
-Grabbing backwards I agree with, doesn't need more horizontal range
-Counter is exactly the same as Marth and Lucina's, so no
-Smash Attacks already are useful in their niche uses. Usmash is a great landing trap particularly with the increased landing lag from air dodging, Fsmash is for both reads and ledgeguarding, Dsmash is his fastest option and despite what some people think, is in fact fast enough for its job. Still the weakest of the three in overall usefulness, but its not a terrible option like it was in Brawl

Considering the amount of misinformation in your post, I don't think you've actually used Ike much if at all.

I play Smash 4 a lot and Ike is the character I use more (more than 100 hours with him at least), so I know a little bit, obvisouly I don't know absolutely anything about his moves but after playing with him for hours I can say for sure that he has way TOO MUCH slow moves. I don't say that all of these wishs should be fulfilled (I would be already happy with the half of these) but there so much that could help Ike rising to the upper tiers :

- My problem with the Fair is that the visual animations doesn't connect with the real hitbox properties, visually, the overhead part of the Fair touches the opponent but it doesn't really connect which is frustating
- I talk about Bair ending in the air, if you whiff the Bair, you are practically wide open and for a quick move I find it to be a huge drawback, the example with DK is great especially when the gorilla has a greater horizontal recovery.
- Ftilt and Utilt should still be slow but not that slow. Some characters can even punish Ike's Ftilt by a smash attack, that's unbelievable...
- QD, like Ftilt can leave Ike wide open for even more punishement, using it on ground is almost pointless since there is too much endlag to do something else after, I use it sometimes to catch off guard the opponent but if he is a little bit too far it's already too unsafe.
- Downthrow is a little bit weak too be a killling throw IMO but with the Uthrow it's good for combos but not as great as you say since there not so many options and Fair / Uair are still slighty slow. The horizontal throws have some use but I don't think it is that useful since it Ike running speed is not great.
- I know where Uair starts but it's the same with a lot of his move, the startup is a little bit much, i don't ask to be as fast as Sheik's Uair but I think even a slight increase of speed could really help and not make him broken
- For Counter I didn't know it was faster in S4, my bad
- However I heartly disagree with you for the smash attacks. Usmash is the only acceptable here and still, the endlag is too much for a not so powerful smash (still good thouhg). Dsmash is way too slow, some characters can even roll behind Ike and have the time to shield or even hit him before the second hit come. Fsmash is the worst IMO, yes it's great when you can read the opponent, but Usmash and eruption are already good for read / edgeguarding. It doesn't hit really that hard considering how slow it his both on startup and endlag, It doesn't hurt shield that hard like Dedede Fsmash, it doesn't have super armor like Ganondorf's Warlock punch and it's even weaker than Marth's tipper Fsmash. Like others Ike's moves, it doesn't deserve to be that slow when the knockback is not amazing.

Again, I don't think Ike should be buffed in every way but I think there is a huge problem with his moveset in terms of speed, especially against upper tier characters.

 

[Banjobeast158]

I play Smash 4 a lot and Ike is the character I use more (more than 100 hours with him at least), so I know a little bit, obvisouly I don't know absolutely anything about his moves but after playing with him for hours I can say for sure that he has way TOO MUCH slow moves. I don't say that all of these wishs should be fulfilled (I would be already happy with the half of these) but there so much that could help Ike rising to the upper tiers :

- My problem with the Fair is that the visual animations doesn't connect with the real hitbox properties, visually, the overhead part of the Fair touches the opponent but it doesn't really connect which is frustating
- I talk about Bair ending in the air, if you whiff the Bair, you are practically wide open and for a quick move I find it to be a huge drawback, the example with DK is great especially when the gorilla has a greater horizontal recovery.
- Ftilt and Utilt should still be slow but not that slow. Some characters can even punish Ike's Ftilt by a smash attack, that's unbelievable...
- QD, like Ftilt can leave Ike wide open for even more punishement, using it on ground is almost pointless since there is too much endlag to do something else after, I use it sometimes to catch off guard the opponent but if he is a little bit too far it's already too unsafe.
- Downthrow is a little bit weak too be a killling throw IMO but with the Uthrow it's good for combos but not as great as you say since there not so many options and Fair / Uair are still slighty slow. The horizontal throws have some use but I don't think it is that useful since it Ike running speed is not great.
- I know where Uair starts but it's the same with a lot of his move, the startup is a little bit much, i don't ask to be as fast as Sheik's Uair but I think even a slight increase of speed could really help and not make him broken
- For Counter I didn't know it was faster in S4, my bad
- However I heartly disagree with you for the smash attacks. Usmash is the only acceptable here and still, the endlag is too much for a not so powerful smash (still good thouhg). Dsmash is way too slow, some characters can even roll behind Ike and have the time to shield or even hit him before the second hit come. Fsmash is the worst IMO, yes it's great when you can read the opponent, but Usmash and eruption are already good for read / edgeguarding. It doesn't hit really that hard considering how slow it his both on startup and endlag, It doesn't hurt shield that hard like Dedede Fsmash, it doesn't have super armor like Ganondorf's Warlock punch and it's even weaker than Marth's tipper Fsmash. Like others Ike's moves, it doesn't deserve to be that slow when the knockback is not amazing.

Again, I don't think Ike should be buffed in every way but I think there is a huge problem with his moveset in terms of speed, especially against upper tier characters.

- Well Ike is a heavy character. he is slow and powerful. If you change all of his attacks to be quicker it changes his character from a slow, heavy hitting to a speedy and hard hitter which is kinda broken. He was already buffed greatly in speed on attacks and in general movement from Brawl.
- His throws are just great. i don't see a single bad thing about them.
- Idk what you are saying about his Usmash. it already has great range(not as good as Brawl but still) combined with kills at 80~110% on the cast make it quite usable. Dsmash can be used to punish near the edge for 80~100% kill if its fresh(which it really should be). Fsmash may be slow, but if you are at high rage it is terrifying. Dont just throw it out. It is great for pivots near the edge or as opponents land from the air.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

If you're being punished for using Ftilt with a smash attack, stop hitting them with the hilt. They're already buffed its cooldown time, its perfectly fine.

Downthrow is a legit killing throw. I don't know what else to tell ya on that one, but its a viable killing throw.

Uthrow has true combos into Fair and Uair. I don't get this "Fair and Uair are too slow" thing: we've tested it. They're true combos.

Why do you need running speed for throws that you're using to toss characters off of the stage when close to the stage? Flow chart from a grab: pummel while recognizing where you are on the stage and the opponent's percent. If opponent is at kill range, Uthrow -> Uair. If opponent was grabbed right by the stage ledge, toss them off and edgeguard. If in middle of stage, take your free Dthrow/Uthrow combo.

Fsmash is a great edgeguarding tool because it will hit characters behind Ike that are tall. Against someone like Samus or Ganondorf or Rosalina, turnaround and charge up Fsmash. If they jump, roll, or get up they get hit. You're covering 3/5 options with one move while starting up faster than Usmash. If they are recovering slightly high, Fsmash is again the smash attack of choice: Usmash doesn't hit that high farther out like Fsmash does. Its also completely usable about of a pivot as a punish option.

Dsmash has the important role of hitting low while coming out faster than Eruption. If you need to hit somebody recovering low, they're at kill percents (which is fairly low by the ledge), but you don't have time for Eruption, Dsmash is your option. Roll punishing is a mix up based on how long you charge it vs if they shield and if so for how long. If they lose the guessing game they get punished hard.

---

The only thing Ike needs is no helplessness ever with QD, grabbing the ledge backwards with Aether, and Dash Attack having its range back.

 

[san.]

I forget if I posted in this topic yet.

Buffing terrible moves:

Dsmash: Halve the ending lag (it's that bad)
Dash attack: Give it its old range. Make it into a two hit attack: 3% shove into 11% sword, frame 10 and frame 18, or +3-4% on old dash attack. Buff sourspots by 3%.
Aether: Acts as a grab up close on startup, can move it farther forward and back, less endlag. The sword locks you in instead of pushing you out.
Quick Draw: 8-10% uncharged, ~22% fully charged. Double the speed of the swing. No freefall. Minimal extra horizontal distance after hitting something. This gives it some much needed utility as a core move.
Counter: Double the swing speed so it can hit stuff. Give it a better vertical hitbox. +3% minimum damage. Knockback increase. It's fine that it's a little slow to activate, it's just so weak and doesn't hit anything.
Eruption: 13% uncharged at least. It's slower than most smash attacks
Uair: +2% damage

Quality of Life Improvements:
Jump squat: reduce by 1 frame
Roll: Reduce duration by 2 frames, slowest roll in the game->fit in with other slow rolls. (same with other characters with this terrible roll)
Grab: Allow sliding, slightly more reach
Jab1: Allow sliding
Jab2: Increase to 4%
Jab3: Increase to 6%, reduce ending lag
Fair: Make hitbox fully match the sword. Adjust the arc so it hits both the upper and lower diagonal well. Vastly reduce IASA frames
Bair: Vastly reduce IASA frames
Uair: Reduce IASA frames by ~3
Ftilt: Few frames less endlag.
Dair: +1% damage and a small sourspot (doesn't need to be nearly as much as Brawl's). Vastly reduce IASA frames
Fthrow: +2% damage
All smash attacks: +5% shield damage
All aerials: Extra 2% shield damage

Shield damage should be more liberally used for all heavy characters.

I actually don't think aether needs to grab the edge facing backwards, but instead just give it more movement. Aether will be problematic imo with cheesy reverse aether spikes.

 

[PyroTakun]

I forget if I posted in this topic yet.

Buffing terrible moves:

Dsmash: Halve the ending lag (it's that bad)
Dash attack: Give it its old range. Make it into a two hit attack: 3% shove into 11% sword, frame 10 and frame 18, or +3-4% on old dash attack. Buff sourspots by 3%.
Aether: Acts as a grab up close on startup, can move it farther forward and back, less endlag. The sword locks you in instead of pushing you out.
Quick Draw: 8-10% uncharged, ~22% fully charged. Double the speed of the swing. No freefall. Minimal extra horizontal distance after hitting something. This gives it some much needed utility as a core move.
Counter: Double the swing speed so it can hit stuff. Give it a better vertical hitbox. +3% minimum damage. Knockback increase. It's fine that it's a little slow to activate, it's just so weak and doesn't hit anything.
Eruption: 13% uncharged at least. It's slower than most smash attacks
Uair: +2% damage

Quality of Life Improvements:
Jump squat: reduce by 1 frame
Roll: Reduce duration by 2 frames, slowest roll in the game->fit in with other slow rolls. (same with other characters with this terrible roll)
Grab: Allow sliding, slightly more reach
Jab1: Allow sliding
Jab2: Increase to 4%
Jab3: Increase to 6%, reduce ending lag
Fair: Make hitbox fully match the sword. Adjust the arc so it hits both the upper and lower diagonal well. Vastly reduce IASA frames
Bair: Vastly reduce IASA frames
Uair: Reduce IASA frames by ~3
Ftilt: Few frames less endlag.
Dair: +1% damage and a small sourspot (doesn't need to be nearly as much as Brawl's). Vastly reduce IASA frames
Fthrow: +2% damage
All smash attacks: +5% shield damage
All aerials: Extra 2% shield damage

Shield damage should be more liberally used for all heavy characters.

I actually don't think aether needs to grab the edge facing backwards, but instead just give it more movement. Aether will be problematic imo with cheesy reverse aether spikes.

@ san. That is one serious wishlist bro. If Ike got half of these changes I'd be more than ecstatic

 

[san.]

@ san. That is one serious wishlist bro. If Ike got half of these changes I'd be more than ecstatic

Those are just things that irk me. Feasibly, they would probably just give dsmash less lag or some other tiny tweak.

 

[Mario766]

Thinking about shield damage, did anyone else notice that Aether Wave has +10% shield damage on the descent? That's something interesting to note.

 

[san.]

Thinking about shield damage, did anyone else notice that Aether Wave has +10% shield damage on the descent? That's something interesting to note.

AFAIK, Aether Wave doesn't have bonus shield damage on the descent, but on the landing hitbox as well as the resulting projectile. It deals a good amount, but a full shield can still block and punish it.

 

[Mario766]

It was written as descent when I read it, but that's likely me just reading it incorrectly.

 

[PyroTakun]

I feel like at the very least we should get shield damage buffs. It feels like every heavy in the game decimates shields, except for Ike.

 

[Mario766]

F smash and eruption are our only real shield damaging attacks. For safety, sh ac bair does good shield damage and is safe on block

 

[dahuterschuter]

His arms and chest.

Even beefier.