If you balance Kirby, what would you do?

[Illuvial]

Honestly all I would do is make Back Throw and Up Throw more viable kill moves by maybe lowering the percent they were actually effective kill moves at by around 20%

I would also like to have his Melee style Dash Attack since I was never a big fan of his Brawl and Samsh 4 Dash attack

But what about you guys?

 

[ryuu seika]

I'd rather have the Melee dash as his side special and give him reduced falling speed during it so it could be used more reliably in the air. I was not a fan of Brawl's dash either but I'm liking it a little more in Smash 4 due to how it can be used to grab items and attack simultaneously, making it a great way to punish projectile spamming Peach players.

He needs to be able to move faster out of Copy so that no character is guaranteed a punish and I'd like to see his air speed a tiny bit higher.

 

[FreeGamer]

Brawl D-Throw
Melee U-Air
Tilts deal more damage
U-Throw kills around 140-150% for most characters on Omega stages
Brawl attack/grab range
Brawl Hammer
Stun after copying
Spitting deals more damage
Brawl F-Throw
64 air speed
64 N-Air
Stone lets you cancel out of it at any time, like it used to
PM Inhale
PM Final Cutter

 

[Oracle_Summon]

Replace his Neutral Air attack with a kick like Samus/Jigs.

 

[Unknownkid]

Allow Dthrow or Fthrow be comboable like Brawl,
Make Hammer swing faster like Brawl but keeps its charge up.
Upthrow kills at 150-160%

 

[Sugawolf]

I really miss Brawl's Dthrow and hammer. The fact that the second aerial swing had horizontal knockback was amazing, and it wasn't nearly as easy to punish as it is now. I would also give him more aerial speed and grab range as well as make the start-up lag to stone a little bit faster.

 

[t!MmY]

Kirby's main problem is how slow of start-up he has on many moves, how easy he is to punish, all combined with his relatively short range and slow speed to the general cast of characters. This is why campy and/or 'sword' type characters have always plagued him.

All his Special Attacks are slow to start up and easy to punish - this doesn't give him much variety and doesn't help with his options. Either buff his Special Attacks or change them to something completely different (it's getting a little tedious seeing one of the most versatile and variable characters in the game being mostly unchanged for all these years).

It helps that in SSB4 that Kirby gets more out of landing his attacks (he combos well), but perhaps not enough considering his deficiencies in actually getting those attacks to land. If he's going to be a slow, short-ranged, non-disjointed hitbox type of character who is light and easy to KO, then he's gonna need a lot more to balance him out than better-than-average combos. Something as simple as a safe lead into a KO attack would be just fine.

On the flip side, even with the problems outlined above, Kirby himself is pretty 'balanced' in the fact that he is straight-forward and does exactly what he was intended to do. He doesn't feel cheap, glitchy, or dull in any way.

 

[FreeGamer]

Does anyone genuinely believe that Kirby isn't bad in this game? I'd love to see their reasoning.

 

[KenMeister]

Give him back his N64 Nair, and give him more range on his fair and make it to where the hits don't land like a wet noodle, even with both hits concerned. Special moves also need a gigantic update (outside of Neutral B). That, and more air speed I guess. It's like Melee all over again, with him getting entirely outclassed by Puff again. Now that I think of it, they've always been drastically better/worse than the other with each upcoming game, huh? lol

 

[kirby_queen]

I'm bias so I wouldn't be so interested in balancing as much as making him N64 awesome broken again LOL.

But I suppose since that's not fair... I'd really like to see an increase in his air/landing speed and faster absorption of powers.

 

[SapphSabre777]

Does anyone genuinely believe that Kirby isn't bad in this game? I'd love to see their reasoning.

Let me put in my own two cents (again, correct me if I'm wrong).

Kirby isn't necessarily bad, per se. He just has bad matchups that make him a bit more difficult to use in upper-level play. That doesn't necessarily equate to a bad character, nor does it mean that our little puffball is doomed to competitive mediocrity. It just means that it will take some time to practice and make a lethal Kirby, and the payoff for such a feat will most certainly be satisfactory.

I've finally started to get some matches in and see what Kirby can do (thanks Asdioh and others for the advice), and some of the things that Kirby has going for him is just disgusting (N/D-air, B/U-throw, his freaking DUCK, etc.) but I digress.

It really is too young to start judging characters, to be honest. All that can be done is taking losses as constructive criticism and learning to be a better player. And I'm very confident these nice folk at Smashboards would love to do just that: to grow nubs like me into a possible superstar by whatever legal means necessary.

 

[LiamMail]

melee dash attack
pm final cutter
64 fair
combine all of these with sm4sh kirby

 

[ryuu seika]

PM Final Cutter is a visual abomination and I don't feel its effect fits the move either. If you want a horizontal recovery, Jumping Inhale or a new side B would be far better.

 

[LiamMail]

@ ryuu seika jet kirby!
but hammer flip is such an amazing kill move

 

[ryuu seika]

@ ryuu seika jet kirby!
but hammer flip is such an amazing kill move

It looks like it could be a little close to the Starfox squad's side B but Jet Kirby also looks like it would work really well. The impact hitbox and separate exhaust hitbox fit in great with Kirby's habit of connecting moves with the "wrong" part of his body and it's just an overall cool move. Plus, it fulfils the role that sideways cutter was wanted for, being a similarly speedy, similarly hitboxed horizontal special.

Hammer Flip doesn't do much for me but maybe I just don't know how to land it.

 

[Asdioh]

Kirby's main problem is how slow of start-up he has on many moves, how easy he is to punish, all combined with his relatively short range and slow speed to the general cast of characters. This is why campy and/or 'sword' type characters have always plagued him.

Getting someone in the air and then either chasing them in the air or waiting for their landing on the ground is pretty much what Kirby should all be about. Unfortunately, the grossest feeling is when you knock someone up and they outspeed you in the air when you're running on the ground.
Yoshi for example, has fast air speed, and I'm pretty sure you can't keep up with him even while running. It's absurd.

 

[ryuu seika]

Yoshi for example, has fast air speed, and I'm pretty sure you can't keep up with him even while running. It's absurd.

But can he outspeed a Jumping Inhale?

 

[Asdioh]

I dunno. Custom moves will be interesting. It's too bad unlocking them is unbelievably grindy. I hope they patch it so you get customs in sets (like neutral B 2 and 3 at the same time for one character) or at the very least, so you can't get the same moves you already have. I did Trophy Rush 4 times in a row with Fox, and got Kirby customs every single time, even though I had already unlocked all of them days before.

 

[KenMeister]

^ That right there is exactly why I'm too lazy to customize my characters. lol

 

[A2ZOMG]

Imo the real way to buff Kirby is to buff Inhale. I mean...seriously. Inhale DEFINES Kirby. But it's way too unreliable in neutral the way it has been designed most of the time.

Swallowcide needs to be safer and easier to break out from to compensate, but making Inhale slightly faster startup and slightly more damaging would make sense.

Or heck, let Kirby WALK while using Inhale would be awesome. Inhale being more useful in neutral would solve a lot of problems for Kirby in a way that makes him different from most of the cast.

 

[ryuu seika]

If it helps, you can initiate Inhale out of your air dodge 5 frames after you become vulnerable again to cancel all the landing lag due to the air to ground transition of Inhale. Might make it a better counter option.

 

[Asdioh]

Why can people still shield Inhale?????
Hell, why does jumping toward them to Inhale, while they're jumping toward you, go right through them?????
Why does Inhale still punish you for using it against people with stall-then-falls???!!
SAKURAI

 

[GrnFzzTgr]

I'm honestly starting to feel very disheartened with Kirby in smash 4. So many battles and match-ups feel like they're up hill battles. I feel like he doesn't have enough KO power or mobility. He's slow, fragile, has short range and seems has trouble punishing as wel, while being easy to punish himself. Because of his slow ground and air speed, it can be difficult to follow up on comboes, or even break away from them. I'm finding ithard for me to say "Kirby is a good character" this time around. Hell, I see people go to Jigglypuff instead of Kirby.

 

[kirby_queen]

Do you think we can see Updates after Smash is out.... we can see Character updates and changes? I agree with everyone about inhale. It's sad that such a defining characteristic of Kirby's doesn't always get the MOST use it can.

Also I'm finding it somewhat more useful, in tough matches, to be more patient and really weigh your move options. It's these very weaknesses that knowledgeable players are waiting to exploit. Other than that, I agree that some of the match ups are tough and a few are a down right horror show (Yoshi OMG....)

 

[Aunt Jemima]

Why can people still shield Inhale?????
Hell, why does jumping toward them to Inhale, while they're jumping toward you, go right through them?????
Why does Inhale still punish you for using it against people with stall-then-falls???!!
SAKURAI

Okay, the fact that people can shield Inhale is absolute BS. Shouldn't Inhale count as a grabbing move?

 

[Asdioh]

I dunno but many times I've seen people stand, shielding, within range of the move, but it doesn't work on them. Then they can roll away or do an attack or whatever. I don't get it :/ because I know it sometimes works through shield, idk! I might be crazy and they're just out of range of the move, but I'm pretty sure they're not. It happened in Brawl too.

 

[Aunt Jemima]

I dunno but many times I've seen people stand, shielding, within range of the move, but it doesn't work on them. Then they can roll away or do an attack or whatever. I don't get it :/ because I know it sometimes works through shield, idk! I might be crazy and they're just out of range of the move, but I'm pretty sure they're not. It happened in Brawl too.

No, you're not crazy. The reason I'm annoyed with it is because it happens to me on several occasions. They just sit in their shield right next to me, not getting sucked in. It's really stupid, TBH. I'd expect it go through shields, but I guess not...

 

[GrnFzzTgr]

That's really BS..

 

[KenMeister]

LOL at these people wanting Melee's dash attack back.

 

[FreeGamer]

what he should have is his PM dash attack

 

[kirby_queen]

LOL at these people wanting Melee's dash attack back.

Wow I'm not the only person who prefers his spinning dash attack

 

[GrnFzzTgr]

Wow I'm not the only person who prefers his spinning dash attack

I prefer it too. I've always liked the yoyo- break dance more than the burning attack in the Kirby games as well.

 

[Aunt Jemima]

guys it's called break spin omg

 

[GrnFzzTgr]

I'll call it "the break dance" all I want! Just like I still call Spark Wave "Plasma Wave/ Plasma Wave Cannon" >_>

 

[kirby_queen]

guys it's called break spin omg

oops lol. I just know it reminds me of one of my fave powers, yoyo. I miss it ;-;

 

[KenMeister]

Though now that we mention it, I'm surprised the dash attack didn't change AT ALL in this game, considering we get a brand new one like, every other game. lol

 

[Artero]

So.. had the game since release and still can't figure out who to main, mostly because I'm liking so many characters.

One of the characters I like most right now is Kirby, though I'm a bit disheartened to main him hearing he isn't particularly good in most match-ups. Also, I hardly ever use Inhale.

If some of you Kirby mains would like to convince me to stay, be my guest.

EDIT: whoopsie, meant to post this in the 'social-thread'..

 

[kirby_queen]

So.. had the game since release and still can't figure out who to main, mostly because I'm liking so many characters.

One of the characters I like most right now is Kirby, though I'm a bit disheartened to main him hearing he isn't particularly good in most match-ups. Also, I hardly ever use Inhale.

If some of you Kirby mains would like to convince me to stay, be my guest.

Kirby is one of Nintendo's most underrated mascots and franchises. In fact if it weren't for his vary existence, there'd be no smash. Smash borrows a lot in it's design, from Kirby. Kirby himself is awesome. He's pink and cute and entry level. Everything hardcore gamers fear. What better way than to berate your enemies, than defeating them with this charming and pink fighter? Also with Kirby, YOU certainly have to work for your kills. It won't be easy. You'll cry and smash things. However... it's a true sign of skill to main him. While everyone is playing the game on easy mode with their quicker, stronger, harder to KO options, you'll be truly testing your skills.

Choose Kirby as one of your mains and feel the satisfaction when winning!

 

[Artero]

Kirby is one of Nintendo's most underrated mascots and franchises. In fact if it weren't for his vary existence, there'd be no smash. Smash borrows a lot in it's design, from Kirby. Kirby himself is awesome. He's pink and cute and entry level. Everything hardcore gamers fear. What better way than to berate your enemies, than defeating them with this charming and pink fighter? Also with Kirby, YOU certainly have to work for your kills. It won't be easy. You'll cry and smash things. However... it's a true sign of skill to main him. While everyone is playing the game on easy mode with their quicker, stronger, harder to KO options, you'll be truly testing your skills.

Choose Kirby as one of your mains and feel the satisfaction when winning!

I've loved Kirby since Kirby's Adventure on the NES (I was about five years old at the time; dunno exactly what year I played it, but I do remember that being my first introduction to Kirby). Not much later I'd get a Gameboy and the Dreamland games, which really made me fell in love with Kirby.

On the other hand, I do have to admit that my love for other characters like Mario, Donkey/Diddy Kong and Link is stronger, since I feel that they have better games within their series (like OoT, SMB3, DKC f.e.). This is probably mostly because Kirby games aren't really meant to be all that challenging and are more relaxing.

However, when it comes to Smash, I just pick whoever feels best to play with for me. This time around though (IMO) it seems like all characters have a more unique feel to them, which makes it hard for me to choose. Kirby currently does give me the best vibe and I've played with him the most (next to Sonic), so will probably go with him as my main (and Sonic as my alt).

Anyway, sorry for derailing the thread! If anyone wants to reply to me, just do so in the [Kirby] social-thread or sending a message directly.

ONTOPIC: If I were to balance Kirby, I'd either give him slightly more KO power or make his hammer more less laggy (which basically equals slightly more KO power).

 

[kirby_queen]

I've loved Kirby since Kirby's Adventure on the NES (I was about five years old at the time; dunno exactly what year I played it, but I do remember that being my first introduction to Kirby). Not much later I'd get a Gameboy and the Dreamland games, which really made me fell in love with Kirby.

On the other hand, I do have to admit that my love for other characters like Mario, Donkey/Diddy Kong and Link is stronger, since I feel that they have better games within their series (like OoT, SMB3, DKC f.e.). .

Meh I don't think difficulty = quality imo. Kirby is meant to be Entry and has EXCEPTIONAL titles under his belt. Opinions I suppose. I feel Mario has a solid series and DK is good if you like run of the mill precision platforming at it's finest. Zelda to me is hit and miss. I like some games and dislike others. Matter of taste I suppose but I do realize Zelda is quite popular.

However if you like those games more it can't be helped.

I only play as characters whose games I like the most anyway so Kirby characters are my main. It's sort of like how I think it's odd to cosplay at a convention as characters you don't even like/love. Just doesn't have heart for me. I personally don't just play as characters that feel good for winning. Winning means nothing to me with a characters I don't like.

I think if you like Mario or Link than play as them than. Playing with a character you like is more important IMO but I know that's not necessarily how most people play smash.