If the next patch completely flipped the tier list? Meta-game or Forget-the-game?

[Dabble Dot]

Zelda would now be the best character in the game and shiek has more lag than any other character.
Sonic is still fast but his spin dash only does one damage. He lags coming out of spin dash.
Mario is better than Luigi and luigi's combos almost never connect as his nockback is just wierd and awkward
Regular mario is a joke and dr mario's pills are twice as good as fire throw and his recovery is further and faster than mario's.
Rosilina is way more floaty and luma can only take about 15-20 damage.
Yoshi damage is 1 per hit while you're in the egg. And his projectile is halved in damage.
Zero suit samus can't jump as high when she kicks you out the top. stun gun does 2 damage.
Picachew's quick attack is now more finicky and hard to control. bash has to be charged for the same distance.

Mewtwo has almost no lag on any of his moves and he now has longer hitboxs.
Jiggly puff has an extra jump bringing her jumps to 6. She's almost as fast as sonic in the air. Roll out is fully cancelable and rest is jiggly puffs entire body. She can move during sing.
Kirby can now eat and carry you twice as long.
Donkey Kong's punch charges in half the time and his clap has double nockback.

Mid tier is practically unchanged.

How long would it take the smash community to adjust?
Would you stick with your former top tier characters even though they're now practically useless?
Meta-game or Forget-the-game?

Did I miss any suggestions for the new patch? What would you change to flip the tier list?

 

[Kero the Invincible]

Zero would main Zelda, and ironically still be playing as the same character.

 

[MarioMeteor]

I would be so confused.

- is universally seen as high tier, so if he suddenly became low tier, I would probably question life.
- is universally seen as top tier, so if she became bottom tier, I would probably begin to cry like a little *****.
- is almost universally considered high tier, so if he was low tier, it's pretty much be Melee all over again.
- on the other hand, would probably become high tier, which would make me very happy, and could probably make up for the Mario nerf.
- She'd become high tier as well, and if probably bawl my eyes out from happiness.

 

[a dog]

would be a fairly bad character again. =(

But on the other hand, would be amazing!

 

[Kurri ★]

I feel a major patch like that would ultimately kill the game, but if it were to ever happen, I'd still be playing Zero Suit because I'm loyal, plus Palutena would be good!

 

[Jeronado]

Gonna agree with Kurri that if something like this did happen it probably would kill the game. I can't imagine many people being a fan of essentially having to re-learn the game from scratch.

That said, if this did happen I'd drop Meta Knight as my main and make Samus my new main. I wouldn't drop MK completely, I'd still play him in friendlies, but he'd probably never see the light of tournament-day again. The switch wouldn't be too bad though, I already play Samus.

 

[Deleted member]

If that were the case, I'd unashamedly solo main . Back to the Brawl days, baby. <3

 

[Wintropy]

Pit might be kinda naff, but I'd have Palutena to fall back on.

It'd basically be a reverseal of what it is now: I'd play Palutena in tournaments and keep Pit for friendlies or stylin' in certain matchups.

 

[FalKoopa]

It would give me a reason to use Zelda, I suppose, but Luigi and ROB would be negatively affected, so no thanks.

I can imagine this nearly killing the competitive scene though.

 

[Dabble Dot]

Would be funny to watch the announcers explain how the new patch is making the match completely ridiculous.

 

[MarioFireRed]

A world where has actual good frame data?

Is this real?

 

[Deleted member]

Marth will be back to his Melee status.

 

[Deleted member 269706]

I would like this, but there is one specific instance which keeps me from wanting this to happen: Ganondorf. If I lost the ability to completely disrespect people with Ganon (as a low tier) then I won't be near as happy. I'd still love to body scrubs with him, but it wouldn't be the same.

 

[Wintropy]

I would like this, but there is one specific instance which keeps me from wanting this to happen: Ganondorf. If I lost the ability to completely disrespect people with Ganon (as a low tier) then I won't be near as happy. I'd still love to body scrubs with him, but it wouldn't be the same.

Wait, you mean I can have PM Ganondorf in Smash 4?

Oh, honey, now you're speakin' my language~

 

[LunarWingCloud]

I'd be so sad if Pikachu sucked. I mean I've played him since the first Smash game and the only time he's been so noticeably meh was Project M, which is a mod anyway. I'd be confused beyond belief. Toon Link would probably end up a tiny bit better since he's kind of in the middle, but it's debatable whether that middle is lower or higher at the moment. I doubt he'd change enough for me to care thankfully. Sonic would suck and that would be pretty sad. I dunno about DK. Rosalina and Luma sucking would feel so weird.

 

[Blazer]

Jiggly puff has an extra jump bringing her jumps to 6. She's almost as fast as sonic in the air.

My image of Jigglypuff speeding through the air is hilarious.

 

[L1N3R1D3R]

I'd main Mii Gunner and Doc, because Pac-Man would drop and Toon Link would stay the same.

 

[Duck SMASH!]

I for one welcome a tier list where Ganon rules supreme and can totally beat the crap out of Sheik for once.
Also, a metagame where Bowser is actually good is always welcomed.

 

[Got4n]

Marth will be back to his Melee status.

If only ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

 

[kendikong]

I would love to see Mewtwos, Charizards, and Puffs dominating the meta

 

[Leoinu]

Flipping tier lists no. However I would like to see a lot of mid tiers buffed. Marth, Lucina, Pits, etc.

 

[Morbi]

Most of the characters that I play are on the lower end of the spectrum (Donkey Kong, Falco, and Samus), so I would not be against a hypothetical reversal of fortune; however, I feel as though part of their appeal is that they are not higher tier too. That being said, I do not touch Mewtwo because of how horrible he is and my inner child wants him to be one of the best characters in the game.

 

[Zerp]

Honestly, I'd be completely enraged if that were to happen, it'd prove to me that the balance team doesn't really care much about balance at all. Sure, I might be a bit happy that is now some sort of amazing character, but that wouldn't really fix anything in the end, there'd still be this noticeably large gap between the higher characters and the lower characters,that apparently nobody tried to fix, it'd be just like if they said that they don't really care.

I'll admit that it would be pretty funny though, especially if they released a patch like that on April Fool's, with a legitimate one the day afterwards.

 

[Jenna Zant]

Flipping tier lists no. However I would like to see a lot of mid tiers buffed. Marth, Lucina, Pits, etc.

I don't think the Pits are mid tier. They're pretty solid characters.

 

[Tito Maas]

Finally, I could use Mewtwo!!

 

[Wintropy]

Flipping tier lists no. However I would like to see a lot of mid tiers buffed. Marth, Lucina, Pits, etc.

Pit's solid high-tier. :3

Falchions getting buffed would be great, though, I'm up for that~

 

[Dokokashira]

So would FG be filled with scrubby, braindead, and basic Peaches, Olimars, and Mega Men? Interesting...

 

[Leoinu]

Pit's solid high-tier. :3

Falchions getting buffed would be great, though, I'm up for that~

I have yet to fight a good pit in my scene, see any do well in streamed tournaments, or just overall place well.

From the last "Tier list" I checked, the community views him as B+. Mid tier to me, if he was shown a little bit of love I'd pick him up but for now I'll stick to being a closet furry.

 

[Deleted member]

So Luigi and Pikachu are terrible characters? I mean, I'll still play them, but I wouldn't play this game competitively.

Admittedly, I am slightly curious to see a Shulk with godly frame data and an air fighting Little Mac.

 

[Wintropy]

I have yet to fight a good pit in my scene, see any do well in streamed tournaments, or just overall place well.

From the last "Tier list" I checked, the community views him as B+. Mid tier to me, if he was shown a little bit of love I'd pick him up but for now I'll stick to being a closet furry.

I've written brief treatises on why that is, which I'm happy to share with you if you want.

The tl;dr version is that he has great frame data, footsies, survivability and a decent matchup spread (no matchups worse then -2 at the absolute maximum), but he isn't really great at anything and therefore doesn't have any matchups where he hard counters the other guy (by the same token, no matchups better than +2). Both extremes are exceptionally rare, he tends to have even-ish matchups across the board, which makes him a very solid character but not really overtly impressive enough to be used over some of the top tiers.

If you want footage of a good Pit, I'd recommend you check out Earth. He's a Japanese player and he's considered the best Pit in the world.

On that note, don't trust community-voted tier lists. They tend to be misinformed and empirically incorrect. Not even top players can agree on the fine details of this game's tier list. Even so, the vast majority of top players, and indeed the wider community, have agreed that Pit (and by extension Dark Pit) are good characters, just unloved. You're right about Marth and Lucina, though - they seem to be put somewhere in the mid tiers, or lower in the case of Lucina, whom I've often seen put as far down as bottom five (not my own opinion, but that's the way it goes).

 

[Deleted member]

So would FG be filled with scrubby, braindead, and basic Peaches, Olimars, and Mega Men? Interesting...

But and are already high tier characters, and is mid-high.
If anything, we'd see more , and .

 

[Dokokashira]

But and are already high tier characters, and is mid-high.
If anything, we'd see more , and .

I actually meant more along the lines of that those characters are difficult to learn for beginners. I went along with the assumption that most qualities about the character would be swapped in this scenario, and thus difficult characters to play would become easy, and easy characters to play would become difficult.

Meta.

 

[Leoinu]

I've written brief treatises on why that is, which I'm happy to share with you if you want.

The tl;dr version is that he has great frame data, footsies, survivability and a decent matchup spread (no matchups worse then -2 at the absolute maximum), but he isn't really great at anything and therefore doesn't have any matchups where he hard counters the other guy (by the same token, no matchups better than +2). Both extremes are exceptionally rare, he tends to have even-ish matchups across the board, which makes him a very solid character but not really overtly impressive enough to be used over some of the top tiers.

If you want footage of a good Pit, I'd recommend you check out Earth. He's a Japanese player and he's considered the best Pit in the world.

On that note, don't trust community-voted tier lists. They tend to be misinformed and empirically incorrect. Not even top players can agree on the fine details of this game's tier list. Even so, the vast majority of top players, and indeed the wider community, have agreed that Pit (and by extension Dark Pit) are good characters, just unloved. You're right about Marth and Lucina, though - they seem to be put somewhere in the mid tiers, or lower in the case of Lucina, whom I've often seen put as far down as bottom five (not my own opinion, but that's the way it goes).

I dont take community-voted tier lists super seriously, but I can agree on at least some foundation with them.

 

[Runic_SSB]

I only voted yes because I want and to be good, no matter the cost.

 

[Benoas]

and being good would make me weep like a little girl on Christmas morning finding out she gets to live in Disneyland

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Regular mario is a joke and dr mario's pills are twice as good as fire throw

M E L E E B O Y Z
Most of my mains are low tier, not to mention it means Luigi, Yoshi and Pika get nerfed. Yes please

 

[Ze Diglett]

Well, considering there's really no established tier list for Sm4sh yet, this idea wouldn't really make any sense...

 

[Wintermelon43]

Your evolved into !

 

[Deleted member]

Your evolved into !

Unfortunately.... your devolved into .

 

[Dark Dr. Pink-Gold Pit Jr]

I would be so confused.
- is almost universally considered high tier, so if he was low tier, it's pretty much be Melee all over again.

Since when? General consensus is that our boy's a mid to low tier.