If items were in tournements it should be like this (Actually read the thread)

[The Hypnotist]

Should items be in Brawl touneys? Well, the common answer is no due to the consitant luck factor. However I think that items could work under the following conditions...

Playing with items is only counterpickable (for those who don't know, if you lose a match, the next one you get to pick the stage, and in this case you'd choose if items are on or not, as well as the stage). Remeber items are aids.
You could turn off (exploding) crates and barrels.
Items on very low.
In the beginning of each set like stages each player can ban one item.
Each item could be set to its own frequency. This means you that bombs and Final Smashes would appear 3 times less than Mr. Saturns.
Every item spawns in a pattern in the same spots and the same time (different for each stage). This is the most important thing. Otherwise it's just luck if a bomb spawns next to you. If you know where the items are though it's fair.
Overpowered items are banned. Items are an aid when it comes to fighting but they aren't everything. Here is a list of the items (not all but a general understanding of the items that should be played competitvly in Brawl, if any)
No random items, that means no pokeballs or ATs. Remeber money is on the line.

Here are examples of items that I could see in a serious competitive match.

Fan
Mr. Saturn
Bomb (Very Low)
FS (Very Low)
Ray Gun
Beamsword (Low)
Party Ball
Motion Sensor Bomb
Food (Very Low)
etc.

No overpowered items such as...

Heart
Tomato
(Golden) Hammer
Star
Invisble Cloak
etc.

Also note that items would most likely reinforce the tier list because faster characters can get to items faster. And Fox has the shine.

Oh yeah guys, this will not turn into a...

Wavedashing glitch arguement (seriously, how would it even happen)
Casuals vs. Competitive
Flame War

I may edit this OP so please check back. Thank you for reading the thread, I'm lookning forward to your opinions.

 

[Mario77]

No one would choose to use items... except you.... and I'm pretty sure you cannot have items spawn were you want... and I doubt you can set their rate of appearance... Save items for competitive and casual matches, NOT for tournaments... yes, you can stil have a competitive match and not be in a tourney...

 

[Pink Reaper]

This thread should not exist. Everyone has an opinion on this matter and the second two opposing opinions are posted its just going to ignite a flame war. Yes, I know you don't want a flame war, but thats what your going to get. As it is, we don't even know all the in game settings for items nor do we currently know their power nor do we even know what all the items are. Something like this should not be posted in an open forum(especially the Brawl forum, this place is crawling with spammers and trolls) Just leave it to the Back Room and actually wait until the game comes out. And if you disagree with me, just remember, I have nothing against you, its just this is really a bad thread to put up right now, look how your last one ended up.

 

[PwnyRide]

Remeber items are aids.

And aids kills people. But seriously

I respect the idea of this completely, and i could see it working in an ideal world, but as many of us know, the competitive community is hardly ideal.

IF something like this where to be put into motion, items based particularly on the victim's gameplay flaws such as Motion Sensor Bombs, Bumpers(situational) and other similar items
would be possibly considered.

Hell, i'm sure if the competitive community would really consider this idea and create a tournament based on simple ideas like this, to add some flare to the scene things may turn out great(er).

Of course i cant really present a strong argument for either sides, because i'm certainly not a competitive smasher.

I wouldnt dare have any expectations or hopes for the competitive community as an individual. They should by no means be persuaded to change their gameplay style, specially one that has been decided on as a whole, but you never know. One day things may change.

 

[autobzooty]

I can see organized item rules working out in competitive play. Or at the very least not have it be so standardized. Some tourneys would have items and some wouldn't.

People argue that they don't like chance when money is involved, but to that I would like to point out that poker, blackjack, roulette, and many other primary forms of gambling have "risk of chance" fundamentally integrated into the game.

 

[Red_Revival]

play however you want outside of tourneys but this kind of thing isn't really meant for tournament play. Once upon a time, tournaments used to have items; that's not the case anymore for a reason

@ Autobzooty

Yeah that's why it's called gambling. I want to be in full control of what happens when I play. Whatever happens on screen is a causal effect of something you or I did - or a combination of the two. It makes sense. Why add chance?

 

[:034:]

Actually, I'd say this is a very good idea. Depending on how in-depth Item Switch will be, this could actually work.

 

[choknater]

I agree with Hypnotist.

I really, REALLY don't see why items shouldn't be used in tournament as long as there are no exploding containers/items, or bob-ombs.

 

[dotpwn]

I want to be in full control of what happens when I play. Whatever happens on screen is a causal effect of something you or I did - or a combination of the two. It makes sense. Why add chance?

The main argument for removing items was the presence of exploding crates and barrels just because of this. It seems like now people knock items because they think they are banned just for being items(not directed @ Red Revival). Assuming crates and barrels remove the dreaded random explosions, items as a counter pick could be a gratifying fresh experience!

 

[MookieRah]

I don't think this will ever fly to be honest. Either items will be in or they won't. Also, if items are in they will be set to low and not very low. Why? Because at very low they don't appear that often in a match, and the chances that one item could greatly benefit one character goes up by quite a bit.

My argument has and always will be that it is still likely to benefit one player more than another in sets, and it's merely an outside source for randomness which I am against in any competitive environment.

It seems like now people knock items because they think they are banned just for being items

You know 2/3rds of the US pretty much were not wanting items and it was the midwest that constantly argued for them to stick around. The crates and barrels issue was something that the midwest couldn't argue against, and it was what made it happen. If that wasn't an issue, I'm thinking that most of the scene would have eventually moved in favor of no items over time seeing how the midwest were in the minority.

 

[Psydon]

Finally, somebody gets it! Hypnotist, you have my thanks for making this topic; it's about time someone realized the "random cheapness" factor of items doesn't have to be an issue.

I will say, though, under the assumption that you can turn exploding containers off (I love playing with items and I hope this option, or something to its equivalent, is included), I don't think items should spawn in set locations. People will remember those locations and want to stay near them, knowing that sooner or later an item will show up (there can be nothing about items players have any chance to abuse, other than the items themselves). Yes, there's the possibility of a bomb spawning at your feet, but then I think all explosive items (bob-ombs, smart bombs, motion sensor bombs, explosive crates, etc.) should be banned. They're just too powerful, IMO, and banning them fixes the twain problem of unfair explosive death and a possible need for set item locations.

Of all the items we've been shown in Brawl so far, and the ones from Melee, these would be my choices with them:

Explosives (Bob-ombs, Smart Bombs, Explosive Boxes and Containers, Motion Sensor Bombs, etc.) - Banned. Too powerful, and explosive containers need to be banned.

Gooey Bomb - If it has as much knockback as the other bombs, banned.

Cracker Launcher - In.

Containers - In, if they don't blow up.

Banana Peel - In, as long as you aren't immobilized for too long.

Bumper - Banned. People may complain about the increased difficulty to edgeguard, but this thing, especially since now it can float, makes all those problems go away.

Pitfall - In.

Smoke Ball - Banned. And let's face it; who would really agree to having this on?

Franklin Badge - In.

Curry - Banned. That thing is far too powerful.

Hammers - Banned. Obvious.

Healing items - Banned, except for Team Healer.

Beam Sword - Banned. Too much knockback when thrown.

Fan - Banned. Too much knockback when thrown.

HRB - Banned. Obvious.

Fire Flower - In.

Super Scope - In.

Ray Gun - Banned.

Freezie - In.

Mushrooms - Banned. Either one makes one player a giant, and that's just not fair.

Warp Star - In.

Lip's Stick - Banned. I'm sure nobody would want damage coming from a source other than themselves/their opponent.

Star Rod - In.

Shells - Banned. Too much knockback when thrown, and the Red Shell is nuts.

Flipper - See Bumper.

Mr. Saturn - In.

Starman - Banned. Obvious.

Parasol - In.

Screw Attack - In.

Metal Box - Banned. Too powerful.

Bunny Hood - In.

Cloak - Banned. Although, it's not that hard, especially with the Cloak's shimmering, to tell where your opponent is.

Barrel Cannon - Banned. Too much of a chance to kill yourself.

---

Much as I hope items remain in Brawl tourneys, there'll certainly be a lot of convincing to do, because so many people, casual or pro, are already so familiar with the lack of items and comfortable with it.

 

[XeroHarsh]

Good luck getting others to follow this trend you are starting, because you sure are going to need it. I will write this in caps so you, and everyone else will understand this.

NO ONE TAKES ITEMS TO A SERIOUS LEVEL, AND NO ONE EVER WILL. EVER.


With items on, it just turns smash into what it was meant to be in the beginning, a party game.

The reason items are off is so people can test their skill, without any other influence that can interfere. (this includes the reason as to why some stages are banned in tourneys, such as stage hazards, fox laser camping, ect, ect.)

 

[Askeflink]

Just gotta.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=_2ggN9xBvAI

 

[yoshi_fan]

Well, I would say that this thread is good but...

Well, first. ITEMS WERE BANNED BECAUSE OF THE EXPLOSIVE CRATES.

Aniways, i think i won't play with items. In melee these were good (faster game = faster "thing" with items), but i think in brawl they will be kinda anoying. Only my opinion. (And aniway, items can get anoying as hell).

But i think we have to give them a oportunity (to the items)

 

[hidden]

To the ones that smash would be unbalanced with items thanks to random spawning: There is a simple solution, learn the pre-set item spawnpoints.
Now you know where those spawnpoints are you can decide if you want to fight close to them or or evading them, this doesn't make it less random, but you can decide when you want to take the risk of trowing the enemy near a spawn, where he could get killed by a bombomb or get a beamsword.
Its more a way to balance risk and reward instead of doing the sme combo's all the time. And realy, if you want no randomness, why don't you make a tournament where the goal is to kill a standing cpu in practise mode as fast as posible? Even less randomness! :D

 

[UltimateShinigami]

Just gotta.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=_2ggN9xBvAI

that was beastly

 

[The Hypnotist]

No one would choose to use items... except you.... and I'm pretty sure you cannot have items spawn were you want... and I doubt you can set their rate of appearance... Save items for competitive and casual matches, NOT for tournaments... yes, you can stil have a competitive match and not be in a tourney...

I don't even want items, it's just a thread for the people that do want items (yes they exist). And I doubt you can set their rate of apperance too, it's a hypothetical situation.

I agree with Hypnotist.

I really, REALLY don't see why items shouldn't be used in tournament as long as there are no exploding containers/items, or bob-ombs.

It's more than just the exploding crates. I think you need everything I mentioned or it just wouldn't work.

I don't think this will ever fly to be honest. Either items will be in or they won't. Also, if items are in they will be set to low and not very low. Why? Because at very low they don't appear that often in a match, and the chances that one item could greatly benefit one character goes up by quite a bit.

My argument has and always will be that it is still likely to benefit one player more than another in sets, and it's merely an outside source for randomness which I am against in any competitive environment.

Interesting.

Finally, somebody gets it! Hypnotist, you have my thanks for making this topic; it's about time someone realized the "random cheapness" factor of items doesn't have to be an issue.

I will say, though, under the assumption that you can turn exploding containers off (I love playing with items and I hope this option, or something to its equivalent, is included), I don't think items should spawn in set locations. People will remember those locations and want to stay near them, knowing that sooner or later an item will show up (there can be nothing about items players have any chance to abuse, other than the items themselves).
---

Much as I hope items remain in Brawl tourneys, there'll certainly be a lot of convincing to do, because so many people, casual or pro, are already so familiar with the lack of items and comfortable with it.

If items were not in set locations there would just be too much luck involved. We play a game with skill, not luck. I would hate it if it were 1 stock left and someone got a beamsward luckily. There should be virtually no luck and random spawning is a TON of luck. Interesting banning the explosives though. I just think they should be ULTRA RARE.

Good luck getting others to follow this trend you are starting, because you sure are going to need it. I will write this in caps so you, and everyone else will understand this.

NO ONE TAKES ITEMS TO A SERIOUS LEVEL, AND NO ONE EVER WILL. EVER.


With items on, it just turns smash into what it was meant to be in the beginning, a party game.

First of all, for a long period of tiems tournements had items. Second of all I'm not starting a trend, I don't even like items, I'm just saying if all of these things happened then items could be in competitive play. If you think you can't play competitivly with items then your crazy, espically with my standards.


What do you guys think about counterpicking items?

 

[Foe]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=44i-EM2thqo

I think this sums up why items are not a good idea. I see you have motion sensor bomb up there so that is why I showed this. It is just not a good idea. Can you imagine the johns about items. When you are playing for hundreds or even thousands of dollars you don't want luck to be a factor. Yes, using just some items would stop a lot of luck but no items at all cancels that in every way.

If you are feel strongly about items in battles: Make your own league. With Brawl online it would be easy to do. Most people will play with no items because that is how it has been for at least 5 years. Some people, myself included, will go to wherever the majority of this forum goes. And some will play with items no matter what.

 

[The Hypnotist]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=44i-EM2thqo

I think this sums up why items are not a good idea. I see you have motion sensor bomb up there so that is why I showed this. It is just not a good idea. Can you imagine the johns about items. When you are playing for hundreds or even thousands of dollars you don't want luck to be a factor. Yes, using just some items would stop a lot of luck but no items at all cancels that in every way.

If you are feel strongly about items in battles: Make your own league. With Brawl online it would be easy to do. Most people will play with no items because that is how it has been for at least 5 years. Some people, myself included, will go to wherever the majority of this forum goes. And some will play with items no matter what.

I don't see what the problem was. The Marth should have played more defensivly. And if he were playing with my rules... Did you even read my rules, where is luck still a factor?

 

[Foe]

I don't see what the problem was. The Marth should have played more defensivly. And if he were playing with my rules... Did you even read my rules, where is luck still a factor?

Luck is still a factor. Luck will ALWAYS be a factor with items. Even if it spawned in the same spot every time, the items can be better or worse for the person which is luck. Don't get me wrong, I play with items with my brother all the time. But when I put my money on the line it is not something I want to risk.

You can say all you want about how the Marth played but the idea remains the same: It backfired and it wasn't mostly his fault. With no items, he could have lived.

 

[XeroHarsh]

I don't even want items, it's just a thread for the people that do want items (yes they exist). And I doubt you can set their rate of apperance too, it's a hypothetical situation.



It's more than just the exploding crates. I think you need everything I mentioned or it just wouldn't work.



Interesting.



If items were not in set locations there would just be too much luck involved. We play a game with skill, not luck. I would hate it if it were 1 stock left and someone got a beamsward luckily. There should be virtually no luck and random spawning is a TON of luck. Interesting banning the explosives though. I just think they should be ULTRA RARE.



First of all, for a long period of tiems tournements had items. Second of all I'm not starting a trend, I don't even like items, I'm just saying if all of these things happened then items could be in competitive play. If you think you can't play competitivly with items then your crazy, espically with my standards.


What do you guys think about counterpicking items?

If you think I am crazy, then I guess the whole competitive scene is...

And if you don't like items, why the hell did you even start this thread? If it was to be proven wrong and act thick headed and told numerous times that no one likes your rules what so ever and the fact that it will never happen, you're doing good so far.

Also, I think Foe has pretty much countered you're thread, so there really is no need for it anymore, because as of right now, you're match that could start a flame(war).

 

[Psydon]

If items were not in set locations there would just be too much luck involved. We play a game with skill, not luck. I would hate it if it were 1 stock left and someone got a beamsward luckily. There should be virtually no luck and random spawning is a TON of luck. Interesting banning the explosives though. I just think they should be ULTRA RARE.

The thing is, though, assuming that both players would want to use items (that's another thing; if not enough people use items even if they were balanced and legalized for tourneys it might cause tourney hosts to just ban them all out of the expressed majority opinion), knowing the frequency of items as well as their locations of appearance automatically creates a tendency to use the items, and as such battles erupt over the few items that appear, with characters that are able to camp having a much easier time securing items. Add on the ability to much more easily grab items and you'll just create patterns in matches.

Of course, making the spawn points random does introduce an element of luck, but then there's always a little bit of luck involved in any battle anyway. Besides, if you really think about it, given the size of stages, as both players can only occupy so much potential space (as in, both the space they occupy and the space they can immediately move to) at any given moment, that potential space is very small. Thus, it's much more likely that an item will spawn somewhere where neither player could get to, as opposed to set locations that can be defended.

Both players could be battling it out at one end of the stage and the items suddenly appear at the other end. That's fair. Of course there's always the odd time an item spawns at one's feet, but it truly is an odd time. It almost never happens, compared to the number of spawns anywhere else.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=44i-EM2thqo

This video shows an easy-to-fix issue with random item appearances. A capsule drops on Marth, hitting him so he'll fly that little extra distance and drop right on a MSB. Item containers should only hit characters if they are being thrown at the character. I also think barrels shouldn't be able to roll.

As for the explosives, I just don't think we ought to wield any item that powerful. Every single explosive has as much power as a Hammer, and the explosives are easier to wield than a Hammer. Not just that, every explosive has another element to it that makes it, IMO, simply unfit for a competitive environment:

Motion Sensor Bomb - Set it on the edge or just in front of the edge.

Gooey Bomb - Throw it at someone trying to come back; the falling distance of the character's item throwing animation alone is enough to completely kill their recovery; just imagine if it explodes...

Bob-omb - In Melee, sometimes when a Bob-omb was walking you couldn't see it, given the way the camera was positioned. Nobody wants to fall onto a Bob-omb. Also, the simple fact that Bob-ombs can move of their own will introduces yet another silly luck element into the game.

Smart Bomb - A large-radius explosion. Oh, yeah, there's nothing wrong with that.

Nuke Box (the yellow box that explodes) - See Smart Bomb.

Edit: What do I think of counterpicking items? It wouldn't have much of an impact if you can only decide on one item out of "the list" (a list of balanced, non-broken items that the B-Roomers agree on) to be removed for the match.

 

[flyinfilipino]

Counterpicking items seems like it would be a cool idea (with a bit more customization to it of course). I'd prefer to leave the items on that add pretty individualized effects to each character (like the Smash Ball, and I guess if each character uses it differently, the Beam Sword), maybe a few shooting items like the Fire Flower or Super Scope (with the Franklin Badge to counter), and items that you can use to set up KOs with or at least make your opponent feel stupid for falling into (like The Motion Sensor Bomb, Pitfall, and I guess Banana Peel).

If we'd be able to make it work out the way you said with adjusting frequencies and stuff, it'd be a cool, different way to challenge someone *shrug*.

 

[Crispy4001]

The only thing more difficult than convincing competitive players to allow extraneous factors in their matches is to find a system that all pro item players would agree on.

Sorry but all sorts of smash players, casual and competitive, would contest this to no end.

 

[The Hypnotist]

Luck is still a factor. Luck will ALWAYS be a factor with items. Even if it spawned in the same spot every time, the items can be better or worse for the person which is luck. Don't get me wrong, I play with items with my brother all the time. But when I put my money on the line it is not something I want to risk.

You can say all you want about how the Marth played but the idea remains the same: It backfired and it wasn't mostly his fault. With no items, he could have lived.

There's virtually no luck with my rules. Your practically saying if Peach pulls a bomb she should throw it away. I don't like items, but I'm saying if it was done this way it would work. And it was the Marth's fault. He shouldn't hav got grabbed.

 

[vesperview]

items are aids.

And aids kills people.

That made me lol!

 

[choknater]

WOW lol that Itadaki item combo video was awesome.

 

[The Hypnotist]

If you think I am crazy, then I guess the whole competitive scene is...

And if you don't like items, why the hell did you even start this thread? If it was to be proven wrong and act thick headed and told numerous times that no one likes your rules what so ever and the fact that it will never happen, you're doing good so far.

Also, I think Foe has pretty much countered you're thread, so there really is no need for it anymore, because as of right now, you're match that could start a flame(war).

Uh oh... flaming.

Seriously though I started this thread to see what you guys think. I honestly see some people understanding that these rules are somewhat logical. And I'll admit there are some flaws but for the most part they are fair. I think a lot of competitve players are so bias when it comes to items they don't want to give them a chance. I started the thread to see what others thought, what I'm saying is very logical. There is virtually no luck in these rules. You might as well get rid of Peach's turnips or Game & Watch's hammer.

knowing the frequency of items as well as their locations of appearance automatically creates a tendency to use the items, and as such battles erupt over the few items that appear, with characters that are able to camp having a much easier time securing items.

True, but if they were on low (or very low) you just couldn't depend on items, remeber the time limit.

Of course, making the spawn points random does introduce an element of luck, but then there's always a little bit of luck involved in any battle anyway.

But we want as little luck as possible.

Both players could be battling it out at one end of the stage and the items suddenly appear at the other end. That's fair. Of course there's always the odd time an item spawns at one's feet, but it truly is an odd time. It almost never happens, compared to the number of spawns anywhere else

It does happen though.

As for the explosives, I just don't think we ought to wield any item that powerful.

I think i'd be fine if they were very rare, if Peach can have bombs why can't everyone else?

Motion Sensor Bomb - Set it on the edge or just in front of the edge.

I agree with you, I wasn't really thinking with the MSB.

Edit: What do I think of counterpicking items? It wouldn't have much of an impact if you can only decide on one item out of "the list" (a list of balanced, non-broken items that the B-Roomers agree on) to be removed for the match.

I don't think you understand how it works. If you counterpick items ALL ITEMS that normally would be on are on, except for two items. One item you ban, and one item your oppenent bans.

 

[Zombieoficer]

Umm... I'm all for items in casual play, but for tournaments, won't having uber-items like Smash Balls set on very low make you even more lucky to get one? Having modest items and/or items that require a good amount of skill to make useful should be the only ones to be available. At best.

 

[The Hypnotist]

It wouldn't be luck if the items had set spawn times.

 

[Gilgamesh]

I think i'd be fine if they were very rare, if Peach can have bombs why can't everyone else?

I have a question. Would you prefer if that aspect of Peach's down B could be removed? ( For example, if removing Items also removed the possibility of peach getting things other than turnips? ) The question is not directed at anyone in particular, it's just out of curiosity.

 

[Pink Reaper]

I have a question. Would you prefer if that aspect of Peach's down B could be removed? ( For example, if removing Items also removed the possibility of peach getting things other than turnips? ) The question is not directed at anyone in particular, it's just out of curiosity.

No, not really. That would just increase the possibility of the Stitchface popping up, and I hate that thing far more than I hate the Bob-ombs and beam swords.

 

[choknater]

bombs put you in major risk of accidentally hitting one with as it spawns. even if they are on very low.

 

[The Hypnotist]

I have a question. Would you prefer if that aspect of Peach's down B could be removed? ( For example, if removing Items also removed the possibility of peach getting things other than turnips? ) The question is not directed at anyone in particular, it's just out of curiosity.

Well, I'm a peach player... so no. But seriously, yeah.

bombs put you in major risk of accidentally hitting one with as it spawns. even if they are on very low.

Excellent point, maybe items couldn't be hit in the air?!?!

 

[Team Giza]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=44i-EM2thqo

Ever since I first referenced this video here it seems to have been being used quite a bit to discourage the idea of items in tournament play. This doesn't prove why items shouldn't be used really... it proves that capsules were ******** in Melee... but that doesn't mean they would be the same for Brawl.

That is an interesting plan Hypnotist... but I don't really agree with some of the items you banned and the reasoning behind it. I still like Dire Vulcan's idea better too.

 

[Spellman]

It certainly is a nice compromise. Although, it almost ensures that they will not become final rules because I doubt that there is a timer between items appearing and a certain order which the items appear.

I like the take however. This more or less illustrates the problems you have with the way items act now and how you would be open to them being in the game if the barrier of luck and extreme power weren't there.

 

[Spellman]

It certainly is a nice compromise. Although, it almost ensures that they will not become final rules because I doubt that there is a timer between items appearing and a certain order which the items appear.

I like the take however. This more or less illustrates the problems you have with the way items act now and how you would be open to them being in the game if the barrier of luck and extreme power weren't there.

 

[Got Blood?]

Just gotta.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=_2ggN9xBvAI

Ok,fan banned.lol

 

[Psydon]

I think i'd be fine if they were very rare, if Peach can have bombs why can't everyone else?

I guess it's just because it's Peach. No matter what Peach pulls out, you're already anticipating it. A bomb with anyone else is much more of a slap in the face.

I don't think you understand how it works. If you counterpick items ALL ITEMS that normally would be on are on, except for two items. One item you ban, and one item your oppenent bans.

"All items that would normally be on are on" can be interpreted two ways.

1. All items are on. Only two items total are banned. Obviously the Starman would be banned, and then the next choice would be virtually impossible. Do you get rid of Hearts but keep Hammers (and the Bumper and MSB)? Nobody would accept a system like that.

2. All items that have not been universally banned are on. Amongst the remaining items, two will be banned. This is a more fair system, despite the fact that most items players would want to ban would be already banned.

 

[XeroHarsh]

Also note, these rules will never happen, therefore destroying your dream, and thus, your thread.