ICs Strengths (besides throws)

[ignore the fire]

I would like to start an intelligent discussion on the IC's strengths. Besides their throw game, which isn't as effective as you might think due to their terrible grab, the ICs are lacking. I would like to discuss their strengths so we'll be able to take what they do well and run with it.

Here's what I know to be their strengths:

Blizzard. There's not much to say about this move. Use it.

Desynced game. When done well, they're able to cover openings and zone their opponent.

Damage. Their hits deal an insane amount of damage, even when they're desynced.

(Some) Priority. Their lack of range is sometimes thought of to be a lack in priority, but many of the ICs moves can outprioritize.


That's all I have for now...

Discuss.

 

[ChibiIceClimberz]

Desynching (besides their recovery) is one of their major strengths and deals lots of damage into combos.
Blizzard and shorthopped desynched Blizzard. So... it beats MK's Tornado and deals a lot of damage; it doesn't protect you from projectiles though... but good when your opponent spaces a lot.

I don't have anymore, probably your list is what I'm going to choose for. x_x;

 

[Mith_]

Well I'm no IC main and I just started trying to get better with them but where's what I observed:

-They can rack up damage quickly although they can have trouble killing without using a grab combo.
-Sorta resistant to throws
-Average gimp game with the ice blocks
-Blizzard owns like you said I love that move.

Sorry if I sound like a nub but that's the strengths I've seen from ICs in the past few days.

 

[Barge]

Oh god, their up air is orgasmic. It has so much priority, it outprioritizes
(these are some off the top of my head)
GNW Dair
TL Dair
Link Dair
Bowser down B
yoshi down B
sonics dair
sheiks dair
zeldas dair
zss dair
Ice climbers dair (YES, they our prioritize themselves)

And it comes out quick.

They have really good smash attacks as well.

Their bair is a good killing move too.

 

[ignore the fire]

I completely forgot about their uair.
Like you said, it beats most dairs.

Their dair isn't bad either.
It's useful for hitting MK out of the tornado if you get caught in it.

 

[DemonicTrilogy]

I'm sure that Up air only sometimes out-prioritizes Mr. Game and Watch's key if his hitbox doesn't reach you first. Most of the time, it trades hits...

Also, back air is more of a gimping tool than a kill move...

Well, Ice Climbers have their desyncs as their one unique ability other than their cg's that help them a lot in gameplay. Since people have been focusing on grabs so much though, their meta game while desynced hasn't really improved by much. Most people I see desync just do random stuff or do walls of the special moves... They seem to be really afraid of doing aerials while desynced...

 

[KRDsonic]

I personally like areal ice block mindgames. It seem pretty effective to me: Do an areal and if your opponent dodges it, they'll wait for you to come back down to attack you when you're open, so just use an Ice Block to stay in the air a bit longer to screw them up. Seems handy to me.

 

[ignore the fire]

That's very true. I like desynched bairs. It's sometimes hard to keep them desynched while RARing though.
Desynched fairs are intimidating too. :D

As far as practicality goes, desynced blizzards do well against non projectile character. It's somewhat of a wall, and if you're smart, you can punish their reaction to approaching blizzards.

A Nana ice block can be chased occasionally, but it loses effectiveness when your opponent know what you're doing.

EDIT: KRD, you're post wasn't there when i started writing >.>
Do IBs that close to them really work?
If they're close enough to dodge the arial, I don't know how effective an IB follow up would be. I know they stall in the air, but I think you'd be in range of their attack (if it was necessary for them to dodge the arial). I've never tried this, though.

 

[KRDsonic]

EDIT: KRD, you're post wasn't there when i started writing >.>
Do IBs that close to them really work?
If they're close enough to dodge the arial, I don't know how effective an IB follow up would be. I know they stall in the air, but I think you'd be in range of their attack (if it was necessary for them to dodge the arial). I've never tried this, though.

Well, not when they're that close, but a lot of times people will stay away and then run up when you're comming down, so you can use the Ice Block to stay in the air a bit longer, so if the Ice Block hits it stops them so you can hit the ground, or you can hover for that second if they use a quick dash attack or something, idk. I don't really pay attention to how I use that to stall in the air, I just know it works xD.

 

[ignore the fire]

Haha I'll have to try this now.

I usually use a retreating blizzard after an arial (which is also usually retreating).
I figure that if you can zone them with blizzards, they'll eventually make a mistake and try to rush in close (and of course, you want a grab).
This, of course, is nullified by overbearing projectiles, but it works well against close ranged characters.

 

[B0mbe1c]

ITF, that sig of yours is like... godly. Mainly because it seems Like SoPo and DDD are watching each other. *tears*

Hum... Blizzard, Desynches, Squall. My favorite non-grab moves. :D

 

[ignore the fire]

ITF, that sig of yours is like... godly. Mainly because it seems Like SoPo and DDD are watching each other. *tears*

Hum... Blizzard, Desynches, Squall. My favorite non-grab moves. :D

Haha thanks. I just made it last night.
Your pink power ranger is pretty sweet, too.


I just had an INSANE combo. It was completely by accident, and I had to save the replay and re-watch it to even understand what happened.

I was edgeguarding a PT with desyncs and right when he got onto the stage a (accidentally) had Popo ftilt to a fair from Nana for the spike. It was ridiculous. It just proves that with LOTS of work, the ICs have more potential than probably any character in the game.

 

[ChibiIceClimberz]

I just had an INSANE combo. It was completely by accident, and I had to save the replay and re-watch it to even understand what happened.

I was edgeguarding a PT with desyncs and right when he got onto the stage a (accidentally) had Popo ftilt to a fair from Nana for the spike. It was ridiculous. It just proves that with LOTS of work, the ICs have more potential than probably any character in the game.

I also experienced this often by accident, except that...

F-smash Popo -> F-air Nana to a spike OR...
F-smash Popo -> F-air Nana to a spike on the ground -> f-smash Popo again.

That combo happens to me when I keep jumping and use a lot of aerials..

 

[ignore the fire]

Yeah I think I've done this, too.

This should be incentive to give the grab game a break for awhile and put some work into desync combos like this.
ICs are too good.

 

[kevinw0w]

Wow, only ONE person mentioned squall hammer?

...

 

[ChibiIceClimberz]

"Yup!" Desynching = working together.

Erhm.. WELL... that WAS odd...

Anyway, I think the way to do it is... uhm... wait, I think it's situational or it's hard to do but.. I remember the way to do that combo was:
Keep shorthopping until you desynch your jumping with Nana and Popo. Once you land with Popo (lead), press the jump button quickly and use your c-stick forward. The result to this is making Popo using f-smash and Nana f-air. For f-tilt, just do what you do on using f-tilt, and it'll make Nana use f-air.

I don't know the easy way though... if I had to desynch Ice Shots then the combo, then the f-smash or f-tilt will hit them immediately and your f-air will be late on hitting it.

And I think it does need timing for Nana to spike after the f-smash or f-tilt BTW, obviously.

 

[Nikwadtkhil]

dastardly desyncs
beastly Blizzards
Unparalleded Up-Airs
Incredible Iceblocks
Stupendous Squalls

need i say more?

 

[JustNoOne]

We can just to a Pivot Fsmash to make them desync faster than shorthopping desync =D

Well really our strengths besides throws would probabily be our desyncing. It's a good wall that makes the opponent discourage of taking some risk, Squall isn't that good as people say since it could be broken up by like some Nair (well that happens to me >.>).

We juggle opponents as well the ice blocks help out when desynced <3

And our Dtaunt is epic =D

 

[ignore the fire]

dastardly desyncs
beastly Blizzards
Unparalleded Up-Airs
Incredible Iceblocks
Stupendous Squalls

need i say more?

+10 for the alliteration!
you pretty much cover everything here.

I also noticed that not many people mentioned squall as a strength.
Is it just me, or is squall not as effective as it's made out to be?
I mean, I like it and it's a nice move to pop up your opponent for some uairs, but it's range and sometimes even it's priority seems to be lacking.

How do you use squall effectively?

 

[lain]

Squall is super fast, and you can change moving in one direction at basically any point in time. It definitely helps for when you're landing and someone is just standing right below you--You can squall outta the way.

Side b'ing onto the stage is semi reliable as well. You can actually travel from the far corners of FD to make it back onto the stage. You can even go under fd with squall so it's **** lol.

Plus while synced it's a fast multiple hitting attack. *shrugs*

 

[ignore the fire]

Ah I see.
It seems like it would be most useful in the context of the first way you described it.

 

[ChibiIceClimberz]

Most character's aerials can beat out Squall... :/ So I won't say that Squall isn't that good since Nana or Popo can by gimped by one of the characters' moves., except that when Nana does through a deathfall, use Belay to teleport Nana back to you.
One of Squall's advantages is that Squall is very high once you pull if off, it hits multiple times, ETC.

U-air is pretty good, it has a good priority on some of the character's attacks, and sometimes it can hit the 2nd time.

 

[lain]

Squall is good simply because it's fast. Recovering onto the stage CAN be hazardous.

 

[kevinw0w]

Squall is good simply because it's fast. Recovering onto the stage CAN be hazardous.

I choose not to recover with squall unless my opponent is edge hogging and I know they still have invincibility frames.

See, I over shoot with squall. So after the move is over, they can punish you. It's the same as whiffing Marth's up+b.

Squall is a great combo starter really.

But following with squall right after blizzard will have them just slightly desynced. It isn't nearly as effective...

 

[KRDsonic]

I prefer squall for recovery as opposed to belay to grab the edge if I can help it. It just seems... safer to me. Quite a few characters can gimp you when you use Belay to recover, like Peach with her turnips, and Sonic's spring. There's also the fact that if you try to recover sideways with it, between the time that Nana grabs the ledge with it and you're out in the open you can be gimped easily.

 

[Kitamerby]

39% Dsmash.

Every hit your opponent takes will hurt like a mofo.

 

[JustNoOne]

54% charge Dsmash, it ***** so much that even MK fears it xD

 

[Barge]

I choose not to recover with squall unless my opponent is edge hogging and I know they still have invincibility frames.

See, I over shoot with squall. So after the move is over, they can punish you. It's the same as whiffing Marth's up+b.

Squall is a great combo starter really.

But following with squall right after blizzard will have them just slightly desynced. It isn't nearly as effective...

If Im too low for nana to grab the ledge, I squall hammah, and we both make it

 

[ignore the fire]

I prefer squall for recovery as opposed to belay to grab the edge if I can help it. It just seems... safer to me. Quite a few characters can gimp you when you use Belay to recover, like Peach with her turnips, and Sonic's spring. There's also the fact that if you try to recover sideways with it, between the time that Nana grabs the ledge with it and you're out in the open you can be gimped easily.

I seem to get hit out of squall relatively easily when I try to recover with it.
This may because I usually play against a Marth, but I never thought squall to be very safe.

 

[kevinw0w]

I seem to get hit out of squall relatively easily when I try to recover with it.
This may because I usually play against a Marth, but I never thought squall to be very safe.

Me neither.. So like I said, only when they're edge hogging. But they can still punish you. Hit you out of it. Or, if you over shoot it.

 

[ChibiIceClimberz]

54% charge Dsmash, it ***** so much that even MK fears it xD

You can't make a 54% d-smash in a real battle though, unless they're asleep from Jiggly's Sing, their controllers are put down, or whatever.

 

[Smasher89]

You can't make a 54% d-smash in a real battle though, unless they're asleep from Jiggly's Sing, their controllers are put down, or whatever.

Dsmash if you expect your opponent to spotdodge when you´ve a grab oppoturnity and BAM they´ll probably regret it...
EDIT: ok maybe not fully charged, but a 40%+ one

 

[ignore the fire]

Dsmash if you expect your opponent to spotdodge when you´ve a grab oppoturnity and BAM they´ll probably regret it...
EDIT: ok maybe not fully charged, but a 40%+ one

Not to play devil's advocate, but if you correctly predict a spotdodge you might as well wait a half second longer and get a grab. Possible 0-death>40%. But I get what you mean.

 

[Hylian]

Not to play devil's advocate, but if you correctly predict a spotdodge you might as well wait a half second longer and get a grab. Possible 0-death>40%. But I get what you mean.

Hahaha I was about to say this .

 

[Plum]

Obviously at lower percentages a grab will always be the better choice if you are in that range, but sometimes a fast kill can be a good thing to go with.
I have been in the situation where a Dsmash would have killed but I went for the grab and messed up the bthrow timing after like 2 grabs.

Desynching options are great when the opponent doesn't have too many approach options but I usually stick with ice block or blizzard walls against most characters. Just a personal thing really; grew into my playstyle after too many desynched aerials got nana killed when my opponent found a way through it. Nana killed early on can be just as bad as losing an early stock.

 

[Smasher89]

There is though the psycological effect (or if you´re facing ROB) of making the opponent scared to dodge, hopefully boulding a small brickwall in their head to not use dodge and shield instead their thought of you doing a dsmash in the next time that situation comes up again^^

 

[ignore the fire]

There is though the psycological effect (or if you´re facing ROB) of making the opponent scared to dodge, hopefully boulding a small brickwall in their head to not use dodge and shield instead their thought of you doing a dsmash in the next time that situation comes up again^^

But,
I thought you can spot dodge the dsmash.

 

[Diddyknight]

not really..last too long to be spotdodgable

 

[Demenise]

D-tilt.
Seriously. When edgeguarding, that thing is crazy.

 

[ignore the fire]

D-tilt.
Seriously. When edgeguarding, that thing is crazy.

Agreed.
This is great against characters with mediocre recoveries.
This move seems to get overlooked because a grab is obviously more effective. At high percents, though, and maybe even low percents, this move semi-spikes.