I will never switch mains NEVER!

[Smashbros_7]

I know EB360 won't. And as much as I hate Ademisk, I know he won't. What about Aevin? or Nessbounder, I haven't seen them...

Marth loses to Ness

Marth: This is madness.

Ness: No this is PK STARSTORM!!!

 

[Earthbound360]

Ah, NESSBOUNDER is already betrayed us. I onced loved him. Now...

I doubt Ref will either. He has agreed to help me on the "Ban the Mother grab" thingy.

I've been ashamed to post my sig all day

 

[EdreesesPieces]

I won't switch mains either. Because if this **** is as bad as its made out to be, I'm basically quitting Brawl. Ness was the reason the game was so fun for me, if I can't use him viably in tournament, I'd pretty much stop going to Brawl tournaments. It's one thing if he's a not a good character - I don tcare. but to be effortlessly 0 to death's by any noob...forget that.

 

[Ref]

Ah, NESSBOUNDER is already betrayed us. I onced loved him. Now...

I doubt Ref will either. He has agreed to help me on the "Ban the Mother grab" thingy.

I've been ashamed to post my sig all day

Yep Ness will always be my main.
Don't be ashamed of your sig either. Most of us Ness players like it anyway.

 

[Fizzle]

Don't worry, NESSBOUNDER. I had to switch mains, as well. I'm a Sheik main now with Lucario or Falco as a secondary. Interesting choice, I know, but I've always liked picking the more obscure characters to main.

This whole death grab thing really makes me angry. Before this, my Ness was great. My friends used to fear the bumblebee suit, and now I'm getting beat left and right by noob Marths and Snakes.

 

[DarkBlue]

Hate to burst your bubble, Earthbound.
See M2K's post in Cort's thread in the Lucas forums?
They have already tried to get it banned, and the back room refused.

I plan to continue maining Ness, however I think it would be foolish to use him in a double blind pick. The chances of getting a severly disadvantaged matchup have increased too much.

As such, in tournaments I plan to lead out with Shiek. This betrays nothing about the way my Ness handles (since their playstyles are vastly different) and then counterpick Ness if I deem it safe to do so.

PK- Fiah! <3

 

[Ztarfish]

I heart Ness. He isn't my main, but I will always use him for now and ever.
Partly because I don't tournamatize.

BUT EVEN IF I DID, I wouldn't abandon him.

 

[Rebellion]

I'm not changing mains anytime soon. o_o

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

Hope you guys have fun playing a flawed character then. I can't use something if I know it's not going to work the way I want it to. That's the kind of guy I am.

There's really no point in being stubborn in this scenario. It's just silly.

If I don't change mains, I will end up hating Brawl, and I love Brawl too much for that to happen.

but no character fits my style quite like Ness or Lucas. I'll continue to use these two whether they be counter picks or whatever. No matter what!

And Earthbound360, you suck for doubting me. I hate you. (jk.)

 

[Wave⁂]

I wont switch mains because I don't main Ness. Or Lucas. Actually, I think I fourth Lucas, and seventh Ness maybe. I don't main anyone. Huh.

 

[Conda]

We're fighting for a ban in tactical discussion forum, Nessbounder. We may be able to fix this silly problem.

 

[eHerbieInReverse]

Mmm. I'm sticking with Ness. Oh, they try to abandon him so easily, they do. Just like when we all awaited to see whether or not he'd make the cut into Brawl or replaced by Lucas. I'm loyal to Ness not because I can win with him ( though it is a plus ), but because he is who he is. And I have too much love for him. We'll make it work, guys. We'll make it work.

 

[Conda]

*Watches you get chaingabbed for 100% damage*
Have fun with that.

 

[eHerbieInReverse]

We'll find a way around it, ****it. This was only discovered a couple of days ago. This isn't being stubborn, this is persistence with a golden cause on the horizon.

 

[menofuntall]

I, uh, well, haven't completely abandoned Ness yet. I mean, he still has a ghost-like image in my sig, right? D:

Really, if the doubles team combo with Team Attack on works as I hope it would, I'm definitely keeping Ness for doubles. Otherwise, pray god we discover any sort of way to counter this infinite. Either way, this is really depressing for me, because I really, really liked playing as Ness. And I think Earthbound is awesome and the main characters don't deserve this crap. Of course, Sakurai only glares at me and...

(laughs).

 

[PKboy89]

Enough said

 

[NoNessNoProblem]

Don't change mains i vow to make ness playable in tourneys and i'ma show you guys what happens i gota record when i go to my 1st tourney wish me luck

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

Don't change mains i vow to make ness playable in tourneys and i'ma show you guys what happens i gota record when i go to my 1st tourney wish me luck

I'm not sure what you're trying to prove. Just because you're going to a tourney doesn't mean that somebody at that tourney will use the infinite on you, or that you'll magically be able to escape from it.

 

[NoNessNoProblem]

I'm not sure what you're trying to prove. Just because you're going to a tourney doesn't mean that somebody at that tourney will use the infinite on you, or that you'll magically be able to escape from it.

I'm tryna prove that maybe you can go through the match without them having grabbing you. Everyone plays ness different someone has to figure out a way to do something about this grab. I'll look more into this and see if i find a reasonable solution. It might be fighting on the edge of the stage so you have some way to get out

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

I'm tryna prove that maybe you can go through the match without them having grabbing you. Everyone plays ness different someone has to figure out a way to do something about this grab. I'll look more into this and see if i find a reasonable solution. It might be fighting on the edge of the stage so you have some way to get out

Good luck with that. Fighting near the edge of the stage sounds like a good solution to some extent. But you're not going to be able to approach your opponent whenever you want. :/

Also, try stages with lots of platforms. Like Battlefield.

 

[NoNessNoProblem]

Good luck with that. Fighting near the edge of the stage sounds like a good solution to some extent. But you're not going to be able to approach your opponent whenever you want. :/

Also, try stages with lots of platforms. Like Battlefield.

I'll tell you how it goes. I'm going to try some things out when i'm done with this paper work

 

[Rapid_Assassin]

To Smashbros_7: Please stop trolling the Peach and Ike boards if you're still going to play Ness.

Anyway, I propose that we ban the actual infinite. We can't ban people using the grab to combo into tilts or smashes, since that's unenforceable, and no worse than anything that happened in melee. But the no skill infinite makes these characters unplayable, and that's not good.

 

[Levitas]

There's a thread on the tactical boards where a bit of that kind of discussion should be happening, but really I have serious doubts as to the likelyhood of any debate in that thread changing anyone's mind about the infinite.

 

[PKboy89]

Well, aren't there other characters that can get chained/infinited as well? So why would they ban the grabs just for one character? I'm just wondering, I agree that it should be banned since I love using Ness, but can it really be banned?

 

[Smashbros_7]

To Smashbros_7: Please stop trolling the Peach and Ike boards if you're still going to play Ness.

Anyway, I propose that we ban the actual infinite. We can't ban people using the grab to combo into tilts or smashes, since that's unenforceable, and no worse than anything that happened in melee. But the no skill infinite makes these characters unplayable, and that's not good.

First off peach actually is a bad character, that's been inforced by actual good players like Yuna and Cort. Second I was only trying to point out that Ike is overrated and you can't deny that.

Dark peach is in denial and I long for the day he/she tries out another character or realizes peach sucks in brawl. It's sad watching people go through this kind of thing.

Stage 1.Denial
Stage 2.Guilt
Stage 3.Anger.....

 

[Yuna]

Fine, you can stick with Ness (or Lucas) if you want to. You have no right to berate someone for not doing so, though. Because some of us want to stand a chance of winning at tournaments. And having one (or in Ness' case 3) matchup that's pretty much 10-0 isn't really a good pick for tournament play... especially not when Marth is already Top Tier material and will probably be one of the most frequently played characters in the game.

To reiterate:
It's all fine if you want to stick with Ness (or Lucas). It is not fine to berate someone for not doing so because they dislike the way their metagame has developed.

 

[DarkBlue]

If we want to play Ness, we can't john if we get caught in the infinite. It's a part of the game now and unless it gets banned, it will stay that way.

Social taboos may hold water but when my tournament opponent grabs me and grab releases to a KO.. He wins.. Simple.
Not many of us want to lose like that, as of now the only alternative is to change character and avoid the problem completely.
Exploiting the most prominent weakness of my chosen character is just playing smart. Even if the tactic is cheap or reduces fun from the game.

As for those hoping for a ban.. If you don't see any Ness or Lucas players place highly in tournaments for the next several months, you have a case. For now, we don't even know the solid facts about our predicament, recent discoveries have shown that it is not as bad as first thought.

I feel as cheated about this as the rest of you but in the end- Our character is flawed, we have to deal.

Those that want a better shot of winning would do well to switch.. though this could be applied before this was found. Ness and Lucas were't Top tier to begin with.

 

[Yuna]

As for those hoping for a ban.. If you don't see any Ness or Lucas players place highly in tournaments for the next several months, you have a case. For now, we don't even know the solid facts about our predicament, recent discoveries have shown that it is not as bad as first thought.

How the hell is this a good reason?

"This tactic gimps my character!" - Yes, and? There are plenty of combos and chaingrabs that complete gimp certain characters. NTSC Sheik alone pretty much shaped the entire Low Tier Tier List of Melee (the PAL Tier List is undoubtedly a bit different since she can't chaingrab anyone in it).

No, this is just johning. If you want to win, then don't pick a character against whom there's a horrible, horrible matchup. It's like picking Pichu in Melee and forbidding people from using Upsmashes because he dies at, like, 70% from Fox's Upsmash.

 

[PKboy89]

If we want to play Ness, we can't john if we get caught in the infinite. It's a part of the game now and unless it gets banned, it will stay that way.

Social taboos may hold water but when my tournament opponent grabs me and grab releases to a KO.. He wins.. Simple.
Not many of us want to lose like that, as of now the only alternative is to change character and avoid the problem completely.
Exploiting the most prominent weakness of my chosen character is just playing smart. Even if the tactic is cheap or reduces fun from the game.

As for those hoping for a ban.. If you don't see any Ness or Lucas players place highly in tournaments for the next several months, you have a case. For now, we don't even know the solid facts about our predicament, recent discoveries have shown that it is not as bad as first thought.

I feel as cheated about this as the rest of you but in the end- Our character is flawed, we have to deal.

Those that want a better shot of winning would do well to switch.. though this could be applied before this was found. Ness and Lucas were't Top tier to begin with.

You are right, if you get caught in the infinite, then you just have to deal. Its like how King Dedede can chain most characters and infinite 5, you just can't do anything, and it won't get banned, its part of the game. Same applies to Lucas and Ness. No one is banning a D3 from grabbing DK, so no one is going to ban Ness and Lucas from getting grabbed.

That being said, has anyone found out the Lucas list yet? Ness is pretty much screwed but I heard that Lucas still has a chance.

 

[PKboy89]

How the hell is this a good reason?

"This tactic gimps my character!" - Yes, and? There are plenty of combos and chaingrabs that complete gimp certain characters. NTSC Sheik alone pretty much shaped the entire Low Tier Tier List of Melee (the PAL Tier List is undoubtedly a bit different since she can't chaingrab anyone in it).

No, this is just johning. If you want to win, then don't pick a character against whom there's a horrible, horrible matchup. It's like picking Pichu in Melee and forbidding people from using Upsmashes because he dies at, like, 70% from Fox's Upsmash.

The best post on this thread.

 

[DarkBlue]

How the hell is this a good reason?

"This tactic gimps my character!" - Yes, and? There are plenty of combos and chaingrabs that complete gimp certain characters. NTSC Sheik alone pretty much shaped the entire Low Tier Tier List of Melee (the PAL Tier List is undoubtedly a bit different since she can't chaingrab anyone in it).

No, this is just johning. If you want to win, then don't pick a character against whom there's a horrible, horrible matchup. It's like picking Pichu in Melee and forbidding people from using Upsmashes because he dies at, like, 70% from Fox's Upsmash.

I meant that this would be a good indication that Ness would be completely worthless in the competetive scene. If you find people still able to use Ness and do well then where is your grounding for looking to ban it in the first place? He might have been bumped down the tiers but he still has a (small) chance in a competetive match. If a complete idiot can truly beat an experienced Ness just be learning how to infinite, he has NO chance at all.

People have been running around yelling that Ness is "unplayable" now. I may be wrong but I take this to mean that even a drastic difference in skill between the two players will be disregarded by the technique in question.
If this proves true then there may be reasoning to start appealing for a ban.
I may be slightly ignorant on the subject but was there an incredibly simple technique a melee newcomer could learn and be able to take out a bowser or mewtwo of note?

There is a difference between lower tier and complete uselessness.


To sum it up-
I was not stating that that was grounds for a ban on its own, merely grounds to start looking for a ban.
If Ness is now low tier but still usable in some sense of the word, I dont think a ban is necessary.
If Ness is now so weak that any novice can beat an experienced Nesser.. There may be a problem.




God, I find myself re-reading every post 4-5 times before I hit "submit reply."
Even the slightest mis-wording will have people jumping on you left and right <_<
Ah well. 'Tis good for me as a writer, I suppose.

 

[Yuna]

People have been running around yelling that Ness is "unplayable" now. I may be wrong but I take this to mean that even a drastic difference in skill between the two players will be disregarded by the technique in question.
If this proves true then there may be reasoning to start appealing for a ban.
I may be slightly ignorant on the subject but was there an incredibly simple technique a melee newcomer could learn and be able to take out a bowser or mewtwo of note?

There is a difference between lower tier and complete uselessness.

Nobody cares if a bad player can beat a good player. We care what happens when two good players of equal skill go up against each other. Stop thinking we're talking about "N0es! N00bs can beat Pr0s now!".

 

[BigRick]

the concept of ''main'' is pretty ridiculous IMO

especially in a ruleset than allows character switching

 

[DarkBlue]

Nobody cares if a bad player can beat a good player. We care what happens when two good players of equal skill go up against each other. Stop thinking we're talking about "N0es! N00bs can beat Pr0s now!".

That is only one end of my argument.

If a bad player wins in good vs bad, all you have to do is make the logical connection that good vs good is an even more severe defeat.
Am I really expected to post such a simple conclusion in a debate?


Edit-Before you have a go at me for it, I don't support a ban in either case the way things stand now.

Though I would not be sad to see such a ban in place, the IC's have a 0-death on every character as far as I am aware. Not just 2.. that may be more easily prevented then the problem we have here but but in both cases, the end of the chain is death. Ness and Lucas are only at risk against a portion of the cast. The IC's threaten EVERYONE.
If that doesn't get banned, this certainly won't. Not making a judgment on whether it should be banned or not, I don't know all the facts.

 

[Conda]

Yuna's being really pigheaded here. I'd reccomend trying to ignore him or not go through the effort of spelling simple things out for him.
The only thing he will ever deem bannable is a technique that 0-K.Os definately from any position on the level against any character. To him, anything else is "avoidable" or "only makes Ness/Lucas unusable So what, noobs?"
Like certain D3 and IC grab techniques, this one should be banned for those who can perform it (seems to be Marth, Charizard, and Squirtle).

 

[PKboy89]

Nobody cares if a bad player can beat a good player. We care what happens when two good players of equal skill go up against each other. Stop thinking we're talking about "N0es! N00bs can beat Pr0s now!".

I'm pretty sure that if two players go against each other with equal skill, the Ness user won't solely lose because of grabs. I love using Ness, and nobody likes chain/infinite grabs, but it should not be banned. Its a character match up, if you don't like the match ups then simply choose a different character who has better match ups. The grabs are a pain, but just avoid being grabbed. Yea, you'll get grabbed eventually but a good player won't completely lose because of grabs.

 

[Trapt497]

yah-uh thats the spirit bro. I was waiting for a thread like this. We need more people supporting Ness while this dispute is going on. Ness is my third main and I will fight this to the death if I have to because I dont want this cheap*** flaw to make him 'useless' as people say.

Has anyone come up with any good ways or tactics yet to keep from getting chaingrabbed in tournaments?

And can anyone explain what is going on in the new thread "ONLY MARTH AND PT CAN INFINITE NESS" b/c I am lost on that thread. Is it true or no?

 

[Masky]

It's true. Nessbounder's original thread was kind of exaggerated and didn't account for DI and other factors.

 

[Cocoashadow]

I was playing with my friend who did this and alot of the time I just held the analog stick strait up and mashed jump and I jump-escaped, nullifying the chain. So sure, it sucks, but it's not so bad...

...Right?

Ahhhadkfjslf, I can't play as anyone but Ness arrrgsfg

 

[Masky]

If your friend was playing as Marth, Charizard, or Squirtle and can't perform the infinite grab, then he's doing it wrong. He's probably not pressing Z fast enough.