"I was wrong" thread.

[Wyoming]

Moveset potential? The thicc lad is a heavy with a projectile game that can also brawl up close due to a counter, blunderbuss sucking people up, and strong attacks.

You can complain about the rest since that is subjective but come on about the moveset.

 

[osby]

Moveset potential? The thicc lad is a heavy with a projectile game that can also brawl up close due to a counter, blunderbuss sucking people up, and strong attacks.

You can complain about the rest since that is subjective but come on about the moveset.

I still don't find it interesting but it's unique, I guess.

 

[StormC]

I was always pretty neutral on the King, but I thought him being being absent from his own series as of late seriously impacted his chances. I was completely wrong, and I'm so happy. He looks like a blast to play, and his Final Smash is easily one of my favorites.

I think it's fair to say being absent did impact his chances. He wouldn't have gotten in without absolutely dominating the ballot.

On the flipside, he would have absolutely been in 4 if he was in DKCR. But he's here now. (Performing for you, the first member of the Kremling Krew...)

 

[BonafideFella]

Would it be stupid to say I thought a Federation Marine would become a Samus Echo before Dark Samus?

 

[Erimir]

I'm deeply sorry for not wanting a character I heavily dislike because of his personality, design and moveset potential and whose fanbase make my time as a Smash For fan significantly less pleasant.
I'm also sorry for thinking characters from 21th century will have priority over him.

Say hi to the select few 21st century characters that made it into the game before K Rool:

3 games before:

2 games before:

1 game before: ultlucina:

My god, they've so neglected the 21st century characters. K Rool was clearly their first priority.

 

[osby]

Say hi to the select few 21st century characters that made it into the game before K Rool:

3 games before:

2 games before:

1 game before: ultlucina:

My god, they've so neglected the 21st century characters. K Rool was clearly their first priority.

I'm sorry if I didn't make it clear, I was talking about this game's newcomers, specifically.
(19 characters in 73 roster, are you kidding me? )

 

[Deleted member]

I thought K.Rool had a chance, and in fact i was confident he one of the most likely choices if Fan Demand really affected the roster, but the "irrelevant" argument seemed so prevalent, and im glad the "irrelevant" argument was Irrelevant.

Good to know that instead of adding only the recent characters (which is what i thought it would happen before Smash Ultimate was revealed) they are adding the long-desired classics, and i wouldn't have it any other way. Old-School FTW!

Hopefully this means we can see the Star Spirit and the Warrior of Vale.

 

[StormC]

The NES and SNES were some of Nintendo's biggest systems, and obviously the start of it all, so the fact that most of the cast comes from there isn't too surprising. Plus before 2015, there were more games from the 80s and 90s in Nintendo's library than after. The fact that Nintendo had jack all for new games in 2015 during the design document doesn't help this.

 

[A-money2121]

I was afraid I’d never see the day the King would creep out of the shadows once again, Smash Bros. or not. But Ridley’s inclusion gave me a little bit of hope that maybe - JUST maybe, King K. Rool would have a chance. And poof - King K. Rool comes aboard. I’m SO glad I was wrong. I’m super thankful for Sakurai’s hard work in makin Ultimate the biggest game in the series, and for it having such a huge impact on fan service. That’s something you don’t see very often with other companies, and it’s such an incredible feeling.

 

[Erimir]

I'm sorry if I didn't make it clear, I was talking about this game's newcomers, specifically.
(19 characters in 73 roster, are you kidding me? )

First of all, it's 22 out of 73, since Dark Samus, Chrom and Inklings are all 21st century as well.

Second of all, "Everyone is here" is naturally going to bring along some older characters because to be cut, you have to have been old enough to be in Melee or Brawl. You'll notice that the cut veterans returning (Ice Climbers, Snake, Squirtle, Ivysaur, Wolf, Young Link, Pichu) are all from the 80s or 90s. Third of all, as mentioned, you can be guaranteed that any new Pokemon will be recent, and we're very likely to get one. Fourth... Isabelle is a likely inclusion given the Vergeben leaks + absence of her AT, and she's also 21st century. Both of those will increase the ratio somewhat.

And, video games are very much a medium dominated by franchises with recurring characters, meaning many hit games of recent years use characters that debuted a long time ago. Most of the Mario characters debuted in the 80s or 90s (only Bowser Jr and Rosalina didn't). So what? The Mario series has outsold every Nintendo series you would compare it to in the 21st century, and it mostly uses those old 80s and 90s characters. Many of the biggest selling franchises debuted in the 80s or 90s (Mario, DK, Zelda, Kirby, Pokemon). Nintendo's sales are dominated by characters from the 80s and 90s, and the roster would be ****ty and piss off the fans if they wanted to make the 20th and 21st century rosters equal size.

Anyway, I'm not sure who you want instead. Which 21st century debuting characters are so much more deserving? How many of them are there supposed to be? Is there no longer any room for them or what?

 

[Maxoxpower]

I'm deeply sorry for not wanting a character I heavily dislike because of his personality, design and moveset potential and whose fanbase make my time as a Smash For fan significantly less pleasant.
I'm also sorry for thinking characters from 21th century will have priority over him.
I was wrong, he's in the game. I'm not glad for you, exactly, but I hope it's worth it and Smash speculation can be nicer towards less popular characters now that you got your King.

you got balls for saying that +1 like

 

[osby]

First of all, it's 22 out of 73, since Dark Samus, Chrom and Inklings are all 21st century as well.

Second of all, "Everyone is here" is naturally going to bring along some older characters because to be cut, you have to have been old enough to be in Melee or Brawl. You'll notice that the cut veterans returning (Ice Climbers, Snake, Squirtle, Ivysaur, Wolf, Young Link, Pichu) are all from the 80s or 90s. Third of all, as mentioned, you can be guaranteed that any new Pokemon will be recent, and we're very likely to get one. Fourth... Isabelle is a likely inclusion given the Vergeben leaks + absence of her AT, and she's also 21st century. Both of those will increase the ratio somewhat.

And, video games are very much a medium dominated by franchises with recurring characters, meaning many hit games of recent years use characters that debuted a long time ago. Most of the Mario characters debuted in the 80s or 90s (only Bowser Jr and Rosalina didn't). So what? The Mario series has outsold every Nintendo series you would compare it to in the 21st century, and it mostly uses those old 80s and 90s characters. Many of the biggest selling franchises debuted in the 80s or 90s (Mario, DK, Zelda, Kirby, Pokemon). Nintendo's sales are dominated by characters from the 80s and 90s, and the roster would be ****ty and piss off the fans if they wanted to make the 20th and 21st century rosters equal size.

Anyway, I'm not sure who you want instead. Which 21st century debuting characters are so much more deserving? How many of them are there supposed to be? Is there no longer any room for them or what?

But we have tons of old characters already. Smash For finally started to give newer games and franchises more chance and this game just returned to the 'classic' period.
There are a lot of characters who became popular due to their recent appearences like Bandana Dee, Isaac, Isabelle, Xenoblade characters, new Pokémon or Dixie Kong and I'm going to be pissed if none of them gets in because they aren't Inklings, they can't be echoes or they don't pander to nostalgia.

 

[Erimir]

Weren't you just saying you wanted characters from the 21st century? Dixie Kong debuted in and was popular from DKC 2 and 3, i.e. the 90s. People have been supporting Dixie for Smash since before Tropical Freeze came out (and it's not like I'm opposed to Dixie, she's probably my most wanted at this point). Maybe it's just that you're worried that K Rool being in means that Dixie won't be... cuz they're both 90s, and from around the same time too. But IMO DK can justify a 4th rep anyway.

Bandana Dee technically debuted in 1996. If Daisy counts as 1989, then Bandana Dee is 90s, because Daisy is popular from her ongoing appearances in Mario Kart and sports titles (i.e. recent appearances).

And Isaac's last playable appearance was in 2002/2003 (JP/NA), 16 years ago. K Rool's last playable appearance was in 2008, and last big game (DK64) was 20 years ago. Wow, big difference.

Isabelle has a good chance of getting in, a new Pokemon most likely will be in and... well, there might not be another Xenoblade character.

Like I said, not clear what you want.

 

[osby]

I want characters who made their major appearences in this century. Hence, Bandana Dee.

I'm not comparing being silent protagonist of a JRPG with being a secret character in a baseball spin-off.

Dixie Kong IS an old character but one that has recent appearences that got shafted in favor of a currently dead one.

 

[Fell God]

Hahahaha I was triple right. Chrom is in, K. Rool is in, Vergeben is wrong!

 

[StupendousMike]

I figured he'd have to wait for his chance to fight another day after the Ridley reveal. I didn't expect us to get both super popular, heavily requested, long overdue villains in the same game. I would've thought the same thing if K. Rool was the E3 reveal. Glad I was wrong, though.

 

[Erimir]

I want characters who made their major appearences in this century. Hence, Bandana Dee.

I'm not comparing being silent protagonist of a JRPG with being a secret character in a baseball spin-off.

Dixie Kong IS an old character but one that has recent appearences that got shafted in favor of a currently dead one.

But plenty of these characters have recent appearances. And K Rool was the main villain in a game in 2007, so like I said... not a big difference in relevance for Isaac vs. K Rool. Except the part where, you know, K Rool's games where he was the primary antagonist have sold ten times as many copies as Golden Sun. And as far as K Rool being "dead"... Golden Sun the entire series is dead right now!

I'm guessing it's more of an ad hoc justification, you have the characters you want and you grandfather Dixie in with Tropical Freeze and say it's about Nintendo screwing over recent characters, like there's some principle involved other than "I wanted Dixie and Bandana Dee instead."

And how does does Tropical Freeze make Dixie relevant but Ridley's old news? Ridley, who was the final boss in a Metroid game as recently as... last year. And the fact that it was a remake doesn't even explain it, because he wasn't in the original. And Daisy's ongoing appearances in Mario Kart and sports games are irrelevant because...? Dixie's popularity is probably more related to her titular role in Dixie Kong's Double Trouble in the 90s (and her role in DKC2 which was a big hit and great game) than being in Tropical Freeze. Just a hunch.

Like you can just not like K Rool and be worried he took "Dixie's spot", but your reasons are just you trying to act like there's something more to it than that.

 

[Aeon Lupin]

I was wrong about them using any likeness from the Paon design, but they struck a perfect balance.

 

[osby]

But plenty of these characters have recent appearances. And K Rool was the main villain in a game in 2007, so like I said... not a big difference in relevance for Isaac vs. K Rool. Except the part where, you know, K Rool's games where he was the primary antagonist have sold ten times as many copies as Golden Sun. And as far as K Rool being "dead"... Golden Sun the entire series is dead right now!

I'm guessing it's more of an ad hoc justification, you have the characters you want and you grandfather Dixie in with Tropical Freeze and say it's about Nintendo screwing over recent characters, like there's some principle involved other than "I wanted Dixie and Bandana Dee instead."

And how does does Tropical Freeze make Dixie relevant but Ridley's old news? Ridley, who was the final boss in a Metroid game as recently as... last year. And the fact that it was a remake doesn't even explain it, because he wasn't in the original. And Daisy's ongoing appearances in Mario Kart and sports games are irrelevant because...? Dixie's popularity is probably more related to her titular role in Dixie Kong's Double Trouble in the 90s (and her role in DKC2 which was a big hit and great game) than being in Tropical Freeze. Just a hunch.

Like you can just not like K Rool and be worried he took "Dixie's spot", but your reasons are just you trying to act like there's something more to it than that.

Let me clear it than: I don't like King K.Rool got in before Dixie AND I don't like how we only have Chrom and Inklings from the characters debuted in last decade.
You're right, these two are different concerns of mine.

 

[UberMadman]

Let me clear it than: I don't like King K.Rool got in before Dixie AND I don't like how we only have Chrom and Inklings from the characters debuted in last decade.
You're right, these two are different concerns of mine.

I hope you realize that any character that had their character design finalized more recently than around December 2015 is not getting into the base roster on the basis of when the project plan for this game was developed alone. On top of this, a lot of the biggest requests for this game are characters that were “neglected” in previous titles, so naturally the roster would include a lot of older characters. If it makes you feel any better, I can see Bandana Waddle Dee, Elma, and a Gen. 7 Pokémon, (probably Incineroar,) making it into the final game at launch.

 

[osby]

I hope you realize that any character that had their character design finalized more recently than around December 2015 is not getting into the base roster on the basis of when the project plan for this game was developed alone. On top of this, a lot of the biggest requests for this game are characters that were “neglected” in previous titles, so naturally the roster would include a lot of older characters. If it makes you feel any better, I can see Bandana Waddle Dee, Elma, and a Gen. 7 Pokémon, (probably Incineroar,) making it into the final game at launch.

Thanks.
I know some characters are too new but there is really a big gap between Chrom and Dark Samus.
For the looks of the things, I can't be optimistic about new characters too much, but you're right, I should first wait for all base roster reveals.

 

[StormC]

But we have tons of old characters already. Smash For finally started to give newer games and franchises more chance and this game just returned to the 'classic' period.
There are a lot of characters who became popular due to their recent appearences like Bandana Dee, Isaac, Isabelle, Xenoblade characters, new Pokémon or Dixie Kong and I'm going to be pissed if none of them gets in because they aren't Inklings, they can't be echoes or they don't pander to nostalgia.

Ridley's last appearance in the Metroid series was in 2017.

 

[osby]

Ridley's last appearance in the Metroid series was in 2017.

Noted, thanks.

(Though roster decided in 2015)

 

[Fell God]

Ridley's last appearance in the Metroid series was in 2017.

Speaking of which, Samus in Ultimate definitely should have been based on that appearance.

 

[StormC]

Considering Isaac new because he's technically in the 21st century despite being MIA from a major role for almost 20 years seems sorta silly, but sure.

 

[hinode]

Last I checked, lots of people in the Isaac thread consider K. Rool's confirmation a good thing for his chances because it proves 'relevancy' isn't a necessary condition for inclusion. Instead, fan demand was enough to get an old favorite in.

The emphasis on older fan favorites makes sense when you consider the period of new releases that Sakurai and his team had to draw upon for Ultimate (late 2013-2015) was both short and pretty barren for Nintendo games. Splatoon was a breakout success, but every other attempt at a new IP in that time frame like Codename Steam flopped. Sequels like Super Mario 3D World sold well, but SM3DW didn't introduce any new breakout characters. Also Greninja and Corrin got in Smash 4 already, so two of the biggest titles from that period were already covered before Ultimate even started.

There's always the option to add more secondary characters from long running franchises like Kirby of course, but most of the remaining candidates don't really move the needle all that much (and some of them, like Bandana Dee or Toad, are pretty old in their own right). If Sakurai wanted to add some hype inducing new characters, he pretty much had to either go for old-school fan favorites like Ridley and K. Rool or dig deeper into the third party well. And this was during a period when Nintendo's third party support was at an all-time low, too; putting in some flavor-of-the-week character from Assassin's Creed or Call of Duty or whatever wouldn't make any real sense for Nintendo.

 

[Kero the Invincible]

Eh.





Seriously. I didn't say he'd NEVER make it, but I wasn't crossing my fingers. DKC1/2/3 are my go-to classic SNES games, I even loved the cartoon when I was younger. Back in the days of Maplestory, I even named my characters on his Kremling naming konventions.

But really, I just.......didn't care about K. Rool that much. The hype didn't reach me. Good on you guys for sticking it out, though.

 

[TCRhade]

I'm deeply sorry for not wanting a character I heavily dislike because of his personality, design and moveset potential and whose fanbase make my time as a Smash For fan significantly less pleasant.
I'm also sorry for thinking characters from 21th century will have priority over him.
I was wrong, he's in the game. I'm not glad for you, exactly, but I hope it's worth it and Smash speculation can be nicer towards less popular characters now that you got your King.

Wow. Someone's a little facetious, I'd say.

The reason his fanbase got so "unpleasant", as you put it, was because of the past 2 games: Smash 4 (Wii U / 3DS). We didn't understand how we could get Dark Pit, Palutena, Bayonetta announced as the ballot winner then (I'm not one of the Bayo haters btw, she's a ton of fun!) or 7-8 FE reps (including one as DLC) before a series' main villain who should have been in since Brawl. Brawl especially because it was in 2008, also the year of Rool's last appearance. He perhaps should have been in Melee, even. It's not just a matter of K. Rool's fanbase anymore. How would people have reacted if Ganondorf or Bowser weren't in the roster? Iconic characters of their respective franchises? And instead we got characters like, I don't know, a 4th Link or, say, Pauline as ANOTHER Peach echo, respectively? We were complaining because we were getting fed up of biased and questionable choices over what we considered logical ones. But Smash 4 is basically excused because it was on 3DS, a system with smaller cartridge sizes, which ended up bogging down the Wii U version (I felt), which anyway was on a failing console that didn't have long to go before its death, even Smash didn't save the Wii U, and only a few years after, the Switch came along.

Ultimate, however, forgoes all that and is all about fanservice, as Ridley proved. K. Rool is not just a random flunky or scrappy nobody cared about. He's Donkey Kong's Bowser equivalent. Or used to be, anyway (thanks Nintendo...) . And K. Rool desperately needed this, both for his fans and for his future. K. Rool getting in is a big deal, not just for us, but also for K. Rool himself. I'm not saying you should like it, Osby. But maybe be thankful that the "******** fanbase" will basically shut up. lol.

 

[S_B]

I want characters who made their major appearences in this century. Hence, Bandana Dee.

Bandana Dee is a shoo-in at this point. His flavor text in one of the Kirby games basically talks about him joining Smash and he was conspicuously absent in Dedede's final smash.

Plus he's #1 on the ballot in Japan, I believe.

 

[InASnowBoundLand]

I have something to add to this thread: I was wrong about the Paon K. Rool design never being used. It was. And it was updated, given a gold belly, and proper scales and expressions. And it looks better than I thought. I'll accept it. I still wish K. Rool in the future had bigger googlier eyes though. And I need those iconic Kremling HONKS! But I was wrong about Paon K. Rool. I own it.

One group of people I'd like to see pipe in more in this thread are K. Rool fans that poo-poo'd those of us who appreciated the Mii cosotume, interpreted it as a positive sign, and still were hoping to see K. Rool in the game. Fans who basically posted things like "Sakurai's definitely gonna screw us over again", "you guys are hoping for nothing, it's pointless, Sakurai's too biased".


Come on guys, you know who you are. Time to own it. Hey, at the very least, I'm sure you're glad you were wronger than Chunky Kong picking up a blue banana.

 

[TCRhade]

I will own it, SnowboundLand. I was let down by the Mii costume too, I won't lie about it. But I still bought it to show my support to K. Rool.

 

[osby]

Wow. Someone's a little facetious, I'd say.

The reason his fanbase got so "unpleasant", as you put it, was because of the past 2 games: Smash 4 (Wii U / 3DS). We didn't understand how we could get Dark Pit, Palutena, Bayonetta announced as the ballot winner then (I'm not one of the Bayo haters btw, she's a ton of fun!) or 7-8 FE reps (including one as DLC) before a series' main villain who should have been in since Brawl. Brawl especially because it was in 2008, also the year of Rool's last appearance. He perhaps should have been in Melee, even. It's not just a matter of K. Rool's fanbase anymore. How would people have reacted if Ganondorf or Bowser weren't in the roster? Iconic characters of their respective franchises? And instead we got characters like, I don't know, a 4th Link or, say, Pauline as ANOTHER Peach echo, respectively? We were complaining because we were getting fed up of biased and questionable choices over what we considered logical ones. But Smash 4 is basically excused because it was on 3DS, a system with smaller cartridge sizes, which ended up bogging down the Wii U version (I felt), which anyway was on a failing console that didn't have long to go before its death, even Smash didn't save the Wii U, and only a few years after, the Switch came along.

Ultimate, however, forgoes all that and is all about fanservice, as Ridley proved. K. Rool is not just a random flunky or scrappy nobody cared about. He's Donkey Kong's Bowser equivalent. Or used to be, anyway (thanks Nintendo...) . And K. Rool desperately needed this, both for his fans and for his future. K. Rool getting in is a big deal, not just for us, but also for K. Rool himself. I'm not saying you should like it, Osby. But maybe be thankful that the "******** fanbase" will basically shut up. lol.

I am thankful, actually.

 

[TCRhade]

Well, at least there's that.

 

[osby]

Okay, I've read my previous posts on this thread. They are overtly emotional to the point of irrationality.

King K.Rool DOES deserve to be in this game as a playable character. He has popularity, moveset, everything.

I was just salty because:

1. I'm not too fond of the character, which is my problem
2. I thought old characters were stealing the spotlight of rising stars. Again, subjective and we didn't see all newcomers.
3. I'm kinda pissed how much hate characters I liked got last game, because they weren't K.Rool, but this doesn't give me right to do the same thing.

Overall, yep, I was wrong, I'll try to get used to him and focus on his good qualities. My apologises.

And congrats.

 

[StormC]

One group of people I'd like to see pipe in more in this thread are K. Rool fans that poo-poo'd those of us who appreciated the Mii cosotume, interpreted it as a positive sign, and still were hoping to see K. Rool in the game. Fans who basically posted things like "Sakurai's definitely gonna screw us over again", "you guys are hoping for nothing, it's pointless, Sakurai's too biased".


Come on guys, you know who you are. Time to own it. Hey, at the very least, I'm sure you're glad you were wronger than Chunky Kong picking up a blue banana.

I actually know exactly who you're talking about. Don't know their username, but they had an avatar of Donkey Kong looking at his birthday cake from TF, and acted like we were idiots for looking at it in a positive way.

Then there was that guy a few months ago with a Toon Link avatar who listed all the reasons we were delusional to hope for K. Rool and that Ridley actually got in because of recency, not because of fan demand.

Stuff like that just pisses me off. It's completely unproductive if you actually want the character in the game. Fair weather fans need not apply.

 

[TCRhade]

1. I'm not too fond of the character, which is my problem

I get where you're coming from on this one. I hate Daisy and she got in. Just as an echo, but still. I was mad. Even my best friend was pissed off. We both hate her with a passion. But now Rool's in and all's forgiven. At least for me. I can now beat the ever-loving crap out of her AS K. Rool. Can't say the same for my friend. He hates Ultimate.

But thanks for the congrats. :>

 

[osby]

I get where you're coming from on this one. I hate Daisy and she got in. Just as an echo, but still. I was mad. Even my best friend was pissed off. We both hate her with a passion. But now Rool's in and all's forgiven. At least for me. I can now beat the ever-loving crap out of her AS K. Rool. Can't say the same for my friend. He hates Ultimate.

But thanks for the congrats. :>

Actually I was chill about Daisy. I'm not fan but she's an echo, it's not like she's 'stealing' the spot of anyone.

And you're welcome.

 

[Erimir]

Then there was that guy a few months ago with a Toon Link avatar who [said] that Ridley actually got in because of recency, not because of fan demand.

Ha, I think it's probably more likely that the Ballot has had more influence on the SSBU roster than it did on Smash 4 DLC. Smash 4's newcomers were significantly influenced by marketing needs, but so far every newcomer in SSBU (and the return of all cut characters) has been 100% fanservice. I mean, yeah, Inklings overlap with marketing, but if they did poorly on the ballot it was only because they were so expected that few people thought it was necessary to express support.

Bayonetta was justified with that BS about being the most popular "realizable" character... in Europe. In other words, not the top in Japan or North America. And they were already thinking about SSBU while working on DLC... It's quite possible that "realizable" partially also meant that they really wanted to put the time into some characters like Ridley and not rush the development rather than "it's impossible to make this character playable". Quite possible that they just wanted to save some of the characters to make SSBU's roster more hype.

I mean, the impact of Ridley, Simon and K Rool is probably bigger now than it would've been had Ridley or K Rool been DLC.

 

[Eisendrachen]

From a supporter of one contentious character to those of another: Congratulations.

I was never a fan of DK games and had honestly felt the miracle had dried up when we got Ridley, so here's to continuing good fortune.

...also, I'm pleased to note the presence of a Dragon Quest character icon, and annoyed that someone has erroneously labeled the protagonist of the first game as Erdrick.

 

[spoilerowl]

osby Yeah, I'm sorry a few bad people seemed to give you a bad impression of K. Rool's fandom back in the Smash 4 era. My guess is they were just overly passionate for their character and went too far with it. While I know 4's newcomers were disappointing for a lot of people, including myself for the most part, that didn't give people the right to take it out on those enjoying the newcomers.

And while obviously we can all agree to disagree on character likability and other subjective aspects, I'm glad you're at least here coming clean about it (albeit in a roundabout way at first, haha). Now, at least, you don't have to worry about people clamoring for the Kremling King, and I hope you have some other character you still want that makes it in.