I wanna play Sheik, but...

[Yobolight]

...I never played Melee. I have been mostly a 64 player, but when I play Brawl I play with Sheik and want to play her in Project M.

Where do I start strategically?

Like approaches and combo starters and stuff.

Spoiler

Don't tell me to learn how to wave-dash and L-cancel cause I got those already.

 

[OkamiBW]

Start by learning your bread and butters out of throws. In Project M Sheik doesn't particularly have guaranteed throws, but for the most part the run down of it is as follows. D-throw beats no DI and DI in; B-throw beats DI away.

Remember not to dash attack below 30% because your opponent can crouch cancel it and punish you.

Wavedash back F-tilt is godly. Short hop F-air'ing people's shields is cool too. You can follow those with jabs or another one. D-smash is awesome when you're near the edge because your opponent has two options...shield and fall off the stage onto the edge or get hit.

Short hop N-air is also really tight, but be careful when using it because your opponent can crouch cancel it.

 

[Jolteon]

Sheik's a character with really good zoning who is great at cornering people. Your "approaches" mainly consist of both obtaining space and defending the space you obtain, not by directly running at the opponent and hitting them with a move. A lot of this is reactionary since Sheik's moves are super fast and her long lasting short hop gives you a massive frame window to hit an approaching target on reaction (see: Sheik's fair).

I would suggest initially learning how to abuse Sheik's ground game (general movement with fox trots, dash dancing, wavedashing and pivots as well as utilising crouch with her ground movement). From there you should learn how to utilise her short hop game to both pressure and defend yourself in conjunction with your ground game (see: Amsah videos for great examples of how Sheik's air game works). Make sure you space pretty much every single move you make, otherwise you're going to get crouch cancelled and punished hard.

You should have a general idea of Sheik's punish game as soon as possible imo since it's very intricate and requires a lot of refinement to consistently deal high damage combos.

Low % punish game:

Against fast fallers or mid weights you are pretty much limited to dthrow tech chasing for consistent damage output. You can do this by boost grabbing tech rolls and simply grabbing techs in place, non techs can be punished by a jab reset or usmash.

Floaties are a different ordeal and a lot of the time your low % punish game against them is less about hitting guaranteed combos and more about putting a floaty in the air and then covering their options to get back to the ground. For example: Peach has 4 good options vs Sheik when she is in the air, 1) attack (typically nair), 2) float away or retreat, 3) double jump away or 4) air dodge away. The vast majority of the time they will select option 1) which you can counter either by shieldgrabbing or by spacing a move to outrange it, options 2 and 3 are retreat options which are dealt with by following Peach and then hitting her when she has nowhere to go, and the final option can be dealt with by waiting and then punishing her lag.

Mid-high % punish game:

At mid percents a lot of Sheik's moves will force knockdown vs ASDI down (otherwise known as "weak CC" or "pseudo CC"). You should aim to hit your opponent with a launcher (ftilt and dash attack in particular) so that you can start an aerial combo. A reliable option vs fast fallers and mid weights is to tech chase into a dash attack (or ftilt/usmash vs non-tech). Aerial combos consist mainly of ac/rising uairs and shffl dairs.

Platforms will commonly stop your aerial combos so it is vital that you know how to deal with opponents who land on platforms. You can react to any tech option the opponent makes with ac uair, which can be converted into another aerial combo. rising dair is also a solid option if you have enough time to perform it before they can get-up attack, since it covers tech/non-tech and rolls away can still be punished after dairing by dash attack/ftilt.

fair and tipper usmash on platforms should be your primary combo finishers, but nair also has its uses (i.e. whenever the opponent has the option to ground tech fair) and uair is optimal whenever it can star KO. Spaced bair is also a great combo finisher for situations where there is not enough hitstun to go for a fair after an aerial combo (e.g. if you uair them high up and have no jumps left) since it's basically guaranteed that you will hit an opponent above and to the side of you in the air due to Sheik's ginormous legs and it puts them off-stage.

In Project M you also have the option to use her grab mix-up between d-throw and b-throw in order to either regrab or start an aerial combo on bad DI.

Be comfortable with your oos options (wd oos and nair oos in particular), they are important.

Since Sheik in Project M is similar to her Melee iteration, it will be useful for you to check out the Melee Sheik boards as there is a plethora of existing information that is highly useful.

 

[Wavebuster]

B-throw also beats neutral DI in addition to Dthrow, btw. Get used to when you can act out of it.

 

[G13_Flux]

everything thats said so far is pretty good. if u want a generalized version, heres my go at it:

Offense:
u have great tilts, and great aerials. ur set ups include ftilt, dtilt, dair, fsmash (this is not present in melee, fsmash in PM is slightly modified to allow set ups), dthrow, bthrow, uthrow (on fastfallers), and sometimes an fthrow at the edge. u have a great grab range, and a ranged nair and bair that are good for approaching, although generally, u may want to land these off of reaction to your opponent, like jolteon said. your combos mostly inclued launchers that lead into fairs, nairs, and uairs. more of your combos however, will come off of TECH CHASES. if u wanna be good with shiek this is the most important thing i recomend you get used to. she can tech chase well with dash attack (which sets up for a fair, another dash attack, or a regrab), grab, fsmash, and a run > dsmash. wavedashing will help u a lot in this area to follow their roll for a regrab, and bait out a get up attack by running at them, then wavedashing backwards. these tech chases will mainly be started through dthrows and bthrows, which is where u can start to incorperate your prediction of their DI. When it comes to killing, fair will be you best friend. u have many set ups into it as well. edge guarding is very important with sheik, as u dont have many attacks that have raw power. Ur most powerful attack is upsmash, but it is VERY hard to land the sweetspot, but u can attempt a good set up into it with dair, dtilt (if they DI in), and dthrow (if they DI in).

Defense:
four out of 5 of your aerials are sex kicks. nair and bair are the most overall useful of these when it comes to protecting yourself due to their range. Both of these are great OOS, and they are great out of a short hop. i absolutely recomend to learn to pivot grab, as sheiks grab range is great already, and its a great defensive tactic against aggressive opponents. your jab is very quick, so it can sometimes be used to quickly attack before ur opponent does. also, dsmash and dtilt are both good Crouch cancel counters.

overall, edgeguard to kill, combos will be aerial launchers and tech chases, your grab game is great, Play in reaction to your opponent (you are not a space animal), and cover your self defensively with your quick attacks (nair, bair, tilts, dsmash, jab, pivot grab). remember that sheik can crawl too and wall cling (useful for approaching and edge guarding, respectively).

One more thing, in project M, learn to play as zelda as well if ur gonna play sheik. zeldas too good to not be used in conjunction with her polar opposite.

 

[Yobolight]

This has all been extremely helpful I am incorporating these things currently and it looks like I will be busy perfecting these for a good while. I haven't really even given much thought to Zelda at all, even more I need to work on.
Thanks guys.

 

[DMG]

Biggest mistake I think I see is being too air happy with Sheik. You want to stay grounded with her as much as possible, and only go airborne when you need to. She loses a lot of mobility in the air and becomes much easier to punish (for the most part). Tilts Grabs Needles. The trifecta.

 

[`dazrin]

^ That's probably my biggest mistake when playing sheik. Lol

 

[DMG]

It's always SO tempting to jump with her. I dunno why, I can't stop doing it sometimes. The allure to slap or Nair is just so strong.

 

[Juushichi]

I was having so much trouble with Lucas and Diddy before I decided to just stay on the ground.

WD Back F-tilt is my best friend.

 

[McFlyy]

This thread is very informative. Makes me want to work on my sheik

 

[Jolteon]

It's always SO tempting to jump with her. I dunno why.

Tu tu tu .

 

[Arcalyth]

Biggest mistake I think I see is being too air happy with Sheik. You want to stay grounded with her as much as possible, and only go airborne when you need to. She loses a lot of mobility in the air and becomes much easier to punish (for the most part). Tilts Grabs Needles. The trifecta.

god tier advice imo, probably something I need to heed myself

 

[Deleted member]

making dthrow faster is a decent trade off to pal DI ranges. i guess i can live with it.

PM sheik is definitely the most fluid and intuitive character i've ever played in any smash game ever. she feels like she was custom made for me.

 

[Shadic]

I'm glad you've seen the light.

 

[BairJew]

So after going from playing melee to project m. It feels that sheik's recovery is abysmal, terrible, awful, heart-wrenching, devastating, garbage, trash, low-tier, horrendous, disgusting, ratchet, similar to G&W's shield in melee, the kirby fox match-up, worse than wario's fashion sense, almost as terrible as Leffen (but not quite that bad). I know she has the wall cling stuff, but even that seems not too phenomenal. I would rather drown myself in a pool of Mikehaggar's sweat than try to recover with sheik's up-b. It's just atrocious. I hope that in the near future it is improved to be more like melee. However, I love the rest of the game and Zelda would definitely be my pick over sheik at this point in time. Is it just me that feels her recover is bad or are there others who agree that it feels significantly worse?

 

[Deleted member]

sheik's recovery feels amazing to me and the only time i die with it is when i'm blatantly edge hogged.

i would also rather bathe in a pool of mike haggar's sweat but that is only out of my preference for the man over other earthly pleasures.

 

[DMG]

The reason you probably feel like her recovery is bad, is because a lot of the new or buffed characters recover solidly. Her recovery "sticks out" more.

 

[SpiderMad]

Improved to be more like Melee? How?

 

[Arcalyth]

Her recovery feels fine to me... and for many of the places that Sheik can't recover, Zelda can.
And Farore's Wind doesn't have as much endlag as Vanish.

(Sheilda *****... if you're a Sheik player who doesn't have a decent amount of Zelda skill, you're really holding yourself back.)

 

[G13_Flux]

shiek also now has the hitbox when she re appears from being invisible, which is a fairly big step from melee. but i havent noticed a change either, ive actually felt like its a little bit better. What part do u feel is different from melee?

 

[BairJew]

In contrast to melee, the speed of her recovery seems significantly slower and several well-versed sheik players I know had extreme difficulty adjusting to the feel of her in P:M.

Other noticeable things which were pointed out were the gravity having an adverse effect on how it felt to recover with her. In melee it seemed quick and was a lot more difficult to edgeguard if your opponent was on the opposing/middle(of a larger stage) when you were recovering while offstage. Now it has changed to being easily edgeguarded with very little difficulty to veteran melee players and new players who have previous knowledge in the match--up(from a melee perspective).

Another point is that shino stalling seems quite near impossible. I'm unsure of whether that is something intended to be taken away from the game by the producers or if it is something which has now become increasingly difficult to do.

@DMG: This is most likely why I feel that her recovery is significantly worse. I feel myself constantly johning the new character mods in comparison to how trashy the good melee character's now feel in comparison. Sheik especially. It seems (in my opinion) that they need to improve the stats on the old melee veteran's to keep up with the new changes being placed on the rest of the character roster to stand a solid chance in any given matchup.

Also @Arcalyth: Definitely agree on the point that anyone who mains sheik should play the Sheilda. It is ridiculously good if you know what your doing and now that Zelda has some moves this has made the character slightly more exotic and diverse than how she was previously. Yet, it takes away on some of the key parts which made sheik who she was and has changed her into Two-Face with one half(Zelda) clearly being much more preferable to many than the other half.

 

[Arcalyth]

[snip]

Another point is that shino stalling seems quite near impossible. I'm unsure of whether that is something intended to be taken away from the game by the producers or if it is something which has now become increasingly difficult to do.

[snip]

Also @Arcalyth: Definitely agree on the point that anyone who mains sheik should play the Sheilda. It is ridiculously good if you know what your doing and now that Zelda has some moves this has made the character slightly more exotic and diverse than how she was previously. Yet, it takes away on some of the key parts which made sheik who she was and has changed her into Two-Face with one half(Zelda) clearly being much more preferable to many than the other half.

Shino stalling is still in and isn't difficult at all. On another, somewhat unrelated note, Vanish is actually buffed and is a viable KO move. Carelessly moving toward someone Shino stalling will likely get your opponent killed at high percents.

I've actually found the opposite to be true based on many posts back on Smashmods. Sheik still seems to be greatly preferred to Zelda and Zelda is one of the least popular characters in the game. If anything, Zelda only adds to Sheik without taking anything away.

 

[OkamiBW]

Shino Stalling is in P:M

 

[standardtoaster]

shiek also now has the hitbox when she re appears from being invisible, which is a fairly big step from melee. but i havent noticed a change either, ive actually felt like its a little bit better. What part do u feel is different from melee?

sheik doesn't have a hitbox when she reappears from the end of her upb, zelda does

 

[Jolteon]

Shino Stalling is in P:M

lmao, this is hilarious. Poor bosses can't grab the edge. XD

 

[G13_Flux]

Oh for real? i could have sworn she did. i must still be getting mixed up with brawl. oh well.

 

[Akenero]

use needles as a projectile, and wait for them to approach, and combo

 

[Crossjeremiah]

Ya theres like many styles for sheiks thats why i main her. you can do the camping . needle and run and hit approach (well spaced) throw in some lcancel fairs and then trick them with dtilt in to a combo. or you can do an agressive style which is more preferable. never give up pressure ftilt shield and alot of short hop wave lands are good for mindgaming. or just switch styles in the match. sheik is an art more than anything to me. i'm looking forward to discovering setups and what not.

 

[Aidoony]

Biggest mistake I think I see is being too air happy with Sheik. You want to stay grounded with her as much as possible, and only go airborne when you need to. She loses a lot of mobility in the air and becomes much easier to punish (for the most part). Tilts Grabs Needles. The trifecta.

sheiks air game is great fair and uair are great moves

 

[Fortress]

sheiks air game is great fair and uair are great moves

Incorrect. Sheik has solid aerials, not a solid air game. Her short hop is one of the highest and most difficult to perform in the game, and as such makes it extremely difficult to do anything air-to-ground. She's got one of the worst SHFFL toolkits in the game because of it.

To OP (@ Yobolight )

Here are some pretty basic pointers for Sheik.

1) Learn to tech chase properly
One of Sheik's greater strengths lies in her grab game, which is made so effective thanks to her ability to get from one point to another very quickly. If your opponent techs, Sheik can be right on top of you during the roll. If the opponent DI's to a platform, Sheik can follow through with a free F-air off of their ground recovery decision.

2) Stick to the ground, go aerial only when you need to
Meaning, stay grounded until you've got the advantage. Sheik gives up any control and momentum that she carries the second she goes airborne without any intent to toss out some needles. Due in part to her high shorthop height, Sheik will find it more than troublesome to successfully attack a grounded opponent from the air. It simply takes too long to attack an opponent on the ground while they're in a neutral position, and puts Sheik at risk at the same time. You'll know the right time to get into the air.

3) Ledgegurd, use all of your tools
Sheik's needle storm simply does wonders against a huge portion of the cast, and gives plenty of time to utilize other options available. From the ledge itself, Sheik's B-air can shut out many options, and N-air can spell doom for spacies by simply falling onto them. Your goal as a Sheik player is to use your grabs to get the opponent off of the stage as quickly as possible, following through by putting out gigantic hitboxes to prevent recovery with simple options.

4) Use good movement
Getting the grab is all well and good, but to do so you'll need to utilize movement options such as the dash dance to bait out those opportunities. A grab-happy Sheik can be punished with ease if you're whiffing nearly every attempt. Learn to bait out options, use mindgames, and condition responses. One of my favorites is to start off matches with shorthopped needles into F-tilts or D-tilts or something nonsensical. If you can get your opponent scared of your needles quickly enough (I mean really quickly), then you can easily condition a shield grab response out of them when they see you shorthop for the needle attempt. When they wiff the shield grab, you get your own free grab. Movement and mindgames will go a long way.

So, to sum things up, solid fundamentals are what will make you a good Sheik player. You don't need a huge technical foundation to get the most out of her, but you will need to know how to play this game, and play the other player. Movement is everything, and moreso for this character than most others. You don't have much to fall back on with Sheik's weak neutral game, so you'll find yourself working harder in that regard.

 

[Deleted member]

strangely sheik is quite good at air to ground because fair and bair are nearly unpunishable by the common whiff responses of wd back, dd grab, crouchgrab. the same can be said of low/strong nair to some extent but thats still crouched pretty easily. you eventually get to a point where you start using shffac fade fair as a cheap means to take stage simply because it's more reliable than playing a ground game vs a character with better ground movement than you. in melee, this is only a handful of characters but this list is actually longer in pm due to the normalized ground speed across the cast and a generally buffed crouch mechanic.

 

[OldManDyl (OMD)]

I wanted to ask, I main D3, but there's a few occasions when the MU is horrendous. I enjoying playing Sheik, but are there any solid MU that she would be a great CP to?

 

[Missile]

Intimidate, intimidate, intimidate. It's so important to pressure your opponent safely to the point where you make them feel helpless. This is when Sheik does best. You have two weaknesses, one of them which can be mitigated with pressure, and one which you'll simply have to live with until/if ever the PMBR decides to do something about it.

1. No neutral game. Don't let you opponent know this. Sheik is a judo-type character, where you have to use your opponent's momentum against them (in a metaphorical way). Make them feel helpless and annoy them as far as you can do so with needles.

2. Arguably low-tier recovery. This is what I'm talking about that you'll have to live with for now. Sheik's recovery is punishable by death if not executed correctly. She has no tether, meaning she has no free way of getting on the stage like a ton of other characters in the game. Her up-b is severely limited by its range. Turning into Zelda to recover isn't viable in 99% of situations you'll be in. Most of the time, where you can use Zelda's recovery, Sheik's recovery will do.

Once you realize her major flaws, you can start working on your offensive defense (remember, Judo), starting with her grab game.

Follow the general flowchart to Sheik, which is:

If character = floaty then{
grab->up-air OR grab->upsmash}
Else{
grab->f-air OR grab->b-air OR grab->d-smash}
End if;