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I think Zelda does indeed transform...

smashbot226

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Sigh...

I really don't see any other option besides Shiek for Down B...


Wait a second........

AHA! She could pull out her sword when she was possessed by Ganon, making an (almost) entirely new moveset!

However, over time the sword would rust, and eventually, it would break, causing you to revert back to normal Zelda. The sword would give her more range and power.

She'd be another sword user, but do we really want Shiek to return???
 

Stiputation

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Sigh...

I really don't see any other option besides Shiek for Down B...


Wait a second........

AHA! She could pull out her sword when she was possessed by Ganon, making an (almost) entirely new moveset!

However, over time the sword would rust, and eventually, it would break, causing you to revert back to normal Zelda. The sword would give her more range and power.

She'd be another sword user, but do we really want Shiek to return???
I love you.
I need you in my life.

I love this idea all the more. Its something that I haven't thought about at all. Its completely unique and Zelda would be the same person as well. Not to mention, it could take the role of that Sheik transformation. Humor me, it could make up for what Zelda lacks when she doesn't have the rapier.

Hell, it could even be her Final Smash! Even though its unlikely, I WANT THIS MOVESET/MOVE IMPLEMENTED.
 

Pokec

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Quite honestly, I don't really care if I annoy you. I visit this fourm to post and participate in discussions involving Zelda. The fact that simply because someone who has a strong difference of opinion from what you believe annoys you is a little immature on your part.

Like I've said. This is simply my opinion, I never ONCE said. "I KNOW SHEIK WILL BE OUT"
I'm simply stating the reasons why she may be out.
you're last post with "Darling" and all that "since Sheik is replaced" and yadda yadda really really ticks me off.

its like your too snot nosed to even give a **** about other people's opinions.

but whatever
 

Ztarfish

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you're last post with "Darling" and all that "since Sheik is replaced" and yadda yadda really really ticks me off.

its like your too snot nosed to even give a **** about other people's opinions.
Get over yourself. Not everyone in the world is going to give a flying frick about your opinions. Stop whining so much and just accept it. He even acknowledged that he wasn't saying that his opinion was fact.

I hate people on the internetz, whenever they get threatened they yell 'Opinion'. It's like some strange defense mechanism.
 

Iris

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Not only is TP realistic, there's a nice set of moves that could be used. Light arrows, and the three attacks used while possessed.
 

Stiputation

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you're last post with "Darling" and all that "since Sheik is replaced" and yadda yadda really really ticks me off.

its like your too snot nosed to even give a **** about other people's opinions.

but whatever
So am I supposed to change my posting style because I tick you off? Thats not going to happen....
..Darling.

If you seriously don't like my posts, don't read them and don't reply starting with this one. That will nick this whole problem in the bud. I don't need you constantly down my back, highlighting my posts and whining/whailing like a baby about how strong the difference of opinion annoys you.

And I hold other people's opinions in the highest regards. Hence the fact why I post on these boards, because I want to see the difference of opinion and see how my compares. If I couldn't stand other peoples opinions and differences, like you, I wouldn't come to these forums to post.

PS: Thank you Ztarfish for defending me. It was very kind of you ^^;;
 

BoAKaN

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Get over yourself. Not everyone in the world is going to give a flying frick about your opinions. Stop whining so much and just accept it. He even acknowledged that he wasn't saying that his opinion was fact.

I hate people on the internetz, whenever they get threatened they yell 'Opinion'. It's like some strange defense mechanism.
You saying that is an opinion and no1 has to bother with what YOU say. Stop flaming this thread people.

This is why no talk of sheik should be in the Zelda thread, at least not until confirmations.
 

Luthien

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This is why no talk of sheik should be in the Zelda thread, at least not until confirmations.
A nice concept (I would love it), but that's never going to happen until a Sheik/lack thereof update.

Like it or not, Sheik was a part of Zelda's moveset in Melee. Since we talk about Zelda's future moveset in here, we can't avoid Sheik coming up once every, you know... couple of seconds... that said, Sheik conversations/arguements/wars can be tolerated to a degree. But once a thread becomes completely about Sheik, I think that's when it needs to be shut down.

To avoid flaming threads like these, all we have to do is ignore the people who say things like "OMG Sheikz gonna be in brawl because she rox and sheik is a gurl because Sakurai sayz so!!!11 1!!!1!" and those who flame them.

But like the concept of Sheik not being discussed, that's probably not going to happen either... *Sigh*
 

-spAzn-

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Not only is TP realistic, there's a nice set of moves that could be used. Light arrows, and the three attacks used while possessed.
I for one want to see at least one of those moves in Brawl. Even the rapier that was mentioned would be nice. I mean I would like to see at least one move that Zelda has actually performed in her own game. Even if it wasn't for to long. Sheik doesn't count, yes she actually is apart of Zelda but she never actually fought and throwed needles and all that other stuff she does so technically to me that doesn't count. I think i'm gonna try and avoid that topic (Sheik) for awhile if thats possible though I don't think it is.:ohwell:

Anyway Happy New Years my fellow Zelda users.:)
The wait is almost over.
 

Stiputation

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Anyway Happy New Years my fellow Zelda users.:)
The wait is almost over.
Happy New Year to you as well darling!
Indeed, just 24 more days until we find out.

...........I'm already counting my marbles.
 

cswright

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Dec 21, 2007
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back to the OP....

the event could be transformation related, or it could be something uderwhelming like "end of the alphabet battle"

my guess is it could be something along the lines of a 2v2, Zelda / Samus versus Sheik / ZSS

but who knows
 

Luthien

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back to the OP....

the event could be transformation related, or it could be something uderwhelming like "end of the alphabet battle"

my guess is it could be something along the lines of a 2v2, Zelda / Samus versus Sheik / ZSS

but who knows
Well, yeah. So, we've all got nothing else to say? 'Cause I think we've brought up all the possibilities by now.

The bottom line is, this event match update proves nothing. Woohoo. Anything else? Anyone?
 

Williampettysan

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Did you relise that on melee there was this "GIRLS ARE TAKING OVER KILL THEM!" Event, it could just be like that... And it's not likley since theres only two choices it's 50%. :D

Theres also the reason he's NOT showing Nayru's Love, it could have been edited into a different attack Nayru's whatever. XD

Down B> Nayru's Love (Or whatever he wants to change it to.)

B> LIght Arrows, it's so Zelda. :D Really, shes awsome aim, until she started sucking and hitting you with her arrows. XD)
 

Stiputation

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back to the OP....

the event could be transformation related, or it could be something uderwhelming like "end of the alphabet battle"

my guess is it could be something along the lines of a 2v2, Zelda / Samus versus Sheik / ZSS

but who knows
Your my hero.

"End of the alphabet battle"
I swear, you have just taken funny to a new level.

I laughed unbearably loud when I read that. Seriously, my parents had to tell me to stop xD
 

Igneous42

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My thought is this, my only evidence is the lack of a sheik update after so long. I mean it looks like we got the starting roster but yet no sheik update. So I'm thinkin this, Zelda transforms to a character who plays just like sheik (think like Lucas to Ness, new char, but returning moveset, kinda. In Sheik's case probably nerfed hard). That or the new Sheik design is so new and different it's worth keeping a secret. Because honestly even if it was something like Zelda's FS transformed her I don't get why he'd still be holding that. What could sheik transform to?

Tetra- A TP looking model, not I know people are like why would that make sense it has the same issue's as sheik, and your right, I don't imagine this one. The only reason it would make sense to me is it's more recent and represent the second most recent Zelda game. (well with PH technically most but lets say console). Plus Tetra being a pirate could still have a moveset like sheik's.

Midna (True form)- this wouldn't make sense to me at all, but it is possible I guess

Just a different moveset- She remains Zelda but gets a change of clothes and gets sheik like moves, again not real likely but meh.

I dunno what she could transform to, but I do think she will transform and I think it will be her down B. But I'm starting to wonder if it's sheik why no update?
 

Pokec

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all i want is sheik to return.

thats all.




i think the only way I'll be happy with the removal of Sheik is if they have Human Midna in the game.
 

blink777

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Midna (True form)- this wouldn't make sense to me at all, but it is possible I guess
i think the only way I'll be happy with the removal of Sheik is if they have Human Midna in the game.
You know, Midna could wind up being part of Zelda's character: rather than being a transform ability, it could be a tag-team sort of thing...

That's a lot of "could"s.

EDIT: On second thought, I don't think 2 "could"s would count as "a lot". I'll just go with "far-fetched could"s.
 

Tingle_Stole_My_Pants

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Well, for what little it matters, here's my personal opinion of what's up with Shiek and Zelda.

First off (and I'll say this right now), the smashbros. website hiatus isn't some suspense-building tactic. It's their New Year's Vacation. This is something that is done almost globally. New Years rolls around, and the workers get a week or two off. I'm pretty sure even the hard-working Sora Inc. team will need a vacation after all that work. Things like New Year's Vacation happen in America (several stores in the local mall around these parts are closed until January 7th for the same exact reasons), Canada (same thing), Japan (ditto), China (albeit on a different date), and etc. No cunning ploy, just an end-of-year, hang-out-with-your-family-and-friends jig.

Moving on...

I can personally think of several logical reasons as to why Zelda/Shiek updates are taking forever. As many people can tell you, the two are not a balanced pair in Melee. My personal opinion is Sakurai hasn't posted anything on the subject because he's probably having trouble balancing the strengths and weaknesses of the pair without overcompensating like in Melee, and he doesn't want to commit to anything in case it doesn't work out. They DO have a deadline, you know, and it's only slightly more than a month away.

Wait... now that I think about it, there's only a little more than a month away! Wouldn't this be the part where they start mass-producing it and working out shipping scheduals with the distributors? If that's the case, they wouldn't have time for more than a few minor tweaks before they have to send in the finished product for copying! That would mean they would already be finished with Zelda by now...

Oh yeah, I just remembered. I'll have to check again, but I'm pretty certain thay've only put move updates for the characters if there was something significantly different about them, such as:

Mario: He's got F.L.U.D.D.! Notice how there's only one special move here, as compared to the usual two. Also: Final Smash!

Pikachu: Final Smash. Pikachu's special moves are more or less the same as they were in Melee, and do not have their own updates.

Link: Check out his new weapon designs! Also, notice how the claw shot was put in with them, not because it's a special move, but because it looks different and functions differently than it did in Melee. + Final Smash

Kirby: Kirby's sole special move update, Inhale, looks to be more devoted to showing off his new hats than explaining how it sports a different function this time around. Although I guess you could call the Wario, Snake, Pit, King Dedede (and etc.) new funtions for his Inhale move... (not to mention that I've seen requests for Kirby hats for a while now) Let's not forget Cook Kirby!

Fox: "See my weapons, bright and shiny! Mess with me and I'll kick your hiney!" And the Final Smash, of course.

As you can see from the above examples (I'm too lazy to post all of them), there has only been an update for special moves if they have been modified in some way. Therefore, it can be concluded that since we haven't seen any special move updates for Zelda, her special moves have not been altered in any significant way. i.e. Shiek would still be around. HOWEVER, there's still just over a month left for new updates, so this isn't absolute...
 

Melphyr

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^ And what is Zelda's final smash? I'm sure that could have been shown... Zelda got nothing!! (And now with the Jumpfiesta videos they're saying Din's Fire was nerfed!!! They nerfed Zelda worst move... Why?!?!?! It needed buffs not nerfs!! )

And on topic:

I do not want Sheik nowhere near my Zelda, and I've been thinking how the transformation would work in the subspace emissary... You turn into Sheik in the middle of the first match...is it Sheik that gets captured? Does Wario steals Shiek trophy? I don't think so...

If anything, it will probably be like ZSS... maybe that way it can be incorporated into the main story (I don't think smash balls appear during SSE, do they?)

Don't you guys think it's really out of character? Zelda doesn't go "Oh no baddies are arriving!! Let me just change into my ninja
hidding
clothes to kick them all
or more like to run away
with my
non existing and non-canon
ninja skills!" No she teleports there (Yes Peach, it's an emergency!), with her awsome magical powers ready to fight 'till they're dead!!! Why would she need Sheik:
There’s a reason why her hands and feet glow, after all.
Just speculating...

As her new neutral B (down B for nayru's love)... I'd go for light arrows. Sure it has been brought many times..Link and Pit... blah blah... but they can be used differently.. I wanted something like a circle of light arrows surounding Zelda (much like the crystals in nayru's love), it could be chargeable, and the longer you hold it more arrows would appear... release B and they all fire off both to the front and to the back of Zelda and travelling some distance... (that should compensate the suposed nerf in Zelda's Din's Fire)


Wow big first post... but I'm tired to just read posts
(I've been reading the zelda's brawl forums since the begining >_> ...!! What no more big shiek discussions? ... These threads are getting boring :p)
and wanted to join this great group of zelda's fans!!
 

Tingle_Stole_My_Pants

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=To Melphyr=

Let me think... I'll do this EXPRESS STYLE! I don't know what Zelda's Final Smash is, I have an extreme distrust of IGN, JumpFiesta, and related game information sources (with the exception of personal experience and official-type sources), and I'm glad to know your opinions on Brawl.

Lot's-o interesting thoughts there. I disagree with them, but that doesn't mean they don't have merit.

Although I'm having a hard time seeing how these back up your conclusions...



If any of this comes out as insulting or condescending, it's purely accidental. I'm not very good with words...
 

-spAzn-

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Tingle_Stole_My_Pants (Haha nice name) you make a good point about the team maybe having trouble with balancing each character but I don't think it would have to take 6 months or more to do. Plus we wouldn't know if they were or were not balanced unless Sakurai posted a video (would we I dunno.).

Also yes your right about most characters with noteworthy changes got special moves updates but the least they could of done with Zelda is maybe mention Sheik (if she's in) in that little bio on her character page. Or maybe give her a special update only with Sheik because if she's in i'm assuming she has a makeover which is a slight significant change I guess. Though it is your opinion and I respect that. As well agree with for the most part.:)

To Melphyr hey welcome to the boards.:) Yes it doesn't make any sense to why Zelda's FS is being kept hidden. I also heard of Din's Fire being nerfed which doesn't make any sense since it was sorta weak in the first place. Also looking in videos it looks stronger so I dunno hopefully it's not true.

About the SSE I never thought of that your right if Sheik's in how would she fit in the SSE I definitly don't want to have to go in hiding with Sheik just to be Zelda. Hmm that really opens a whole new series of speculation but i'm just going to leave it at that.
 

Melphyr

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@Tingle_Stole_My_Pants

Actually that sounded like a nice reply :p

Of course you can disagree with me... these are just some personal thoughts on the subject... I didn't want to repeat the same arguments that have been made over and over and over again in the Zelda forums...

I tried to view Zelda's transformation from a different prespective (SSE).
If it's there, it should have some impact on the story... I never saw opinions on that subject so I put in mine. That doesn't mean I'm right but it could bring in some new discussions..

Oh and that "Zelda's final smash thing" was just because you said they didn't update her because there's nothing new... but even characters like Pikachu got a Final smash update.... Why couldn't Zelda, the first veteran confirmed on the dojo, get one too? Her page is the only one blank...

Concerning the Din's fire... it's just what was said.. and they took that only from a video, no one played as her...could end up being better but just dealing less damage Idk...it does look better

Did I just put various different threads subjects into this one?! ... ups there's just so much about Zelda and yet we know so little... oh well

EDIT
: Ah -spAzn- beat me to it!
Thanks for welcoming me here! I love your sigs... even though I liked the other one you had recently better..needs more Zelda!!
 

Luthien

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Well, for what little it matters, here's my personal opinion of what's up with Shiek and Zelda.

First off (and I'll say this right now), the smashbros. website hiatus isn't some suspense-building tactic. It's their New Year's Vacation. This is something that is done almost globally. New Years rolls around, and the workers get a week or two off. I'm pretty sure even the hard-working Sora Inc. team will need a vacation after all that work. Things like New Year's Vacation happen in America (several stores in the local mall around these parts are closed until January 7th for the same exact reasons), Canada (same thing), Japan (ditto), China (albeit on a different date), and etc. No cunning ploy, just an end-of-year, hang-out-with-your-family-and-friends jig.
I don't think the hiatus is, I think the six months of nothing could be.

Moving on...

I can personally think of several logical reasons as to why Zelda/Shiek updates are taking forever. As many people can tell you, the two are not a balanced pair in Melee. My personal opinion is Sakurai hasn't posted anything on the subject because he's probably having trouble balancing the strengths and weaknesses of the pair without overcompensating like in Melee, and he doesn't want to commit to anything in case it doesn't work out. They DO have a deadline, you know, and it's only slightly more than a month away.
Not slightly more than a month. Three weeks. Twenty-two days. If they don't have the system worked out in, oh, I'd say about five seconds, they're pretty much screwed.

I was thinking the exact same thing as Melphyr regarding the whole SSE thing; they went with a Damsel in Distress thing; Sheik doesn't really work with that theme, does s/he? ;)

@ spAzn -- You changed you signature! Why?! WHY?!! Can I have your old one?
 

Tingle_Stole_My_Pants

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Oh, I get it now! Gawd, that took me a while. I think the black boxes threw me off? That's a good point, Melphyr. Zelda didn't turn into Shiek from what we saw of SSE, which is odd...

Unless she goes all ninja and escapes! :O Nah, just kidding :p.

@Luthien: Oh, THAT hiatus. Yeah, good point. Hmm... If only I had some kind of inside source...

Hey, wait! Does anyone remember that thread where this guy leaked information about Sonic and the Demo? Didn't he say something about Zelda/Shiek?
 

-spAzn-

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@Melphyr Thanks and your totally welcome the more Zelda users the better.

As for my old sig it was a new month so I wanted to change it. Expect a new Zelda sig next month:chuckle:. As for you Luthien I will probably use it again later sorry but, I would definitely make you a totally new one if you want, just pm me the info and I would be happy with making you one.:)

Ah that was way off topic so uh yeah Sheik in SSE makes no sense. If you're Zelda and change into Sheik and finish the match as Sheik what would happen? It would even make less sense if they were seperate. Wow that was a sorry excuse for trying to be on topic.:ohwell:
 

Tingle_Stole_My_Pants

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@Melphyr Thanks and your totally welcome the more Zelda users the better.

As for my old sig it was a new month so I wanted to change it. Expect a new Zelda sig next month:chuckle:. As for you Luthien I will probably use it again later sorry but, I would definitely make you a totally new one if you want, just pm me the info and I would be happy with making you one.:)

Ah that was way off topic so uh yeah Sheik in SSE makes no sense. If you're Zelda and change into Sheik and finish the match as Sheik what would happen? It would even make less sense if they were seperate. Wow that was a sorry excuse for trying to be on topic.:ohwell:
Unless...

If transforming into Shiek is Zelda's Final Smash, and the Smash Ball has a major part in the story (as in, nobody knows what it is, and it's some kind of by-product of the Smash universe getting torn apart, and they only learn about them later), then it might make a little more sense.

Like, for whatever reason, Zelda dropped the Shiek bit. After escaping from the clutches of the subspase army, she stumbles across a strange glowing orb...

Of course, this is pure speculation, and has entirely no basis in fact whatsoever ;D
 

HipsterKid

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The only way that I would see the "Turning into Sheik during SSE" thing working out would be if, even if you end up as Sheik, it automatically makes you Zelda at the end. Like Zelda just goes and ends up transforming during the part you're not watching, like in the black cut scene between the match and the video. That's the only way I see it working. :/

And even then, I can't really see it working.
 

-spAzn-

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Unless...

If transforming into Shiek is Zelda's Final Smash, and the Smash Ball has a major part in the story (as in, nobody knows what it is, and it's some kind of by-product of the Smash universe getting torn apart, and they only learn about them later), then it might make a little more sense.

Like, for whatever reason, Zelda dropped the Shiek bit. After escaping from the clutches of the subspase army, she stumbles across a strange glowing orb...

Of course, this is pure speculation, and has entirely no basis in fact whatsoever ;D
Interesting I never thought about it that way. If FS's are a mysterious unknown within the SSE maybe your right. Though it's kinda still weird to me if Zelda's fighting and all of a sudden get's this mystery orb/smash ball then transforms into Sheik I think everyone would be like OMG it's Sheik WTF we still know it's Zelda. Even as a down b cause she transformed right in front of them. Well unless she's alone but still. You know, but I guess anythings possible. Even if I don't want Sheik as Zelda's FS.:p

Also It's sorta hard to speculate how Sheik can be involved in the SSE using your idea because it would be the only FS actually transforming into a whole new person. Samus to ZSS makes sense because it's Samus just without her suit as well as the other transforming FS. They all seem to still look like themselves but either get bigger, sprout wings, change color, or whatever. Zelda to Sheik is different to me because Zel's magic and Sheik's physical. I know their alter ego's of eachother but I mean they really are practically totally different people. Plus some think Sheik's a guy so yeah. If they can pull off how they are used in SSE while still making sense of all of it should be interesting. Remember this is all assuming if Sheik is in which I really don't want.

EDIT: I agree with you HipsterKid even then it would be confusing.
 

rageagainst

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At first I was totally whole heartedly against Sheik as part of Zelda. But then I remembered that Dr.Mario was added into Melee cuz sakurai liked the Dr.Mario music and Jigglypuff was confirmed for melee even though the majority of CASUAL players saw her as a joke in SSB.

And you all have a point that it would be really wierd trying to make Sheik fit into Sub Space emissary, which I think leans away from Sheik bieng a down B (would Sheik get captured instead of Zelda? I think not)
If she is in, which is most likely, she will probably be an FS, which would kindof make sense in SSE. Yes sheik is technically a different Zelda, but then again you have to remember that Sakurai cares much more about interesting game mechinacs then continuity (see: link's abilty to charge his spin attack, though he's not supposed in TP), and in that case its not a different person, its just Zelda in disguise.

Though I have a hard time swallowing shiek bieng part of Zelda, since she was a one time DISGUISE for Zelda in ONE game and will probably never return, im beginnng to feel more and more that I will have to accept this fact, since if all other theories fail, her VETERAN MOVESET will garuntee her a spot in Brawl. I would much rather have her as a seperate character but don't care that much as long as the Zelda side is duly buffed and powerful.

(btw though din's fire is "weaker" we don't know if its worse, since it IS faster and we don't know its uses. Falcos laser is weak but definately not useless)
 

Soluble Toast

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The only way I see Sheik working out in SSE Is escaping Wario's/ villains grasp using the Sheik transformation as a disguise, and moving through SSE as Sheik, being unable to change back to Zelda until the story permits you.

With the Din's fire news, way the SSE could turn out, I fear Sheik is going to be the definitive character of the pair, and Zelda's going to take a back seat...again ¬.¬
 

rageagainst

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The only way I see Sheik working out in SSE Is escaping Wario's/ villains grasp using the Sheik transformation as a disguise, and moving through SSE as Sheik, being unable to change back to Zelda until the story permits you.

With the Din's fire news, way the SSE could turn out, I fear Sheik is going to be the definitive character of the pair, and Zelda's going to take a back seat...again ¬.¬
I woudn't be THAT cynical, Zelda, this time around, will definately either be balanced with sheik or be the pants in the relation ship. Why do I say this? Its because B moves do not make a character. Shiek had arguably the worst B moves in game (yes worse than Zelda's) but still was one of the top tier characters for a while. And also, note that Sakuria is taking balance into issue this time around, buffing the horrible melee characters (Bowser, Kirby, ZELDA- a moves are definately buffed), and nerfing the superstrong melee characters (FOX, Ike (if he counts as marths replacement), sheik?), trying to get everyone in the middle.

IF shiek returns, expect her to be duly nerfed. People will still play her because well , shes a ninja, but I don't expect her to overshadow Zelda too much if at all.

Oh thats a possible scenario for SSE, but what if Zelda is saved instead of peach? Oh yeah, i really hope, if sheik is in, shes an FS because look at Samus, she seems to be just fine even with Zamus.
 

Soluble Toast

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I woudn't be THAT cynical, Zelda, this time around, will definately either be balanced with sheik or be the pants in the relation ship. Why do I say this? Its because B moves do not make a character. Shiek had arguably the worst B moves in game (yes worse than Zelda's) but still was one of the top tier characters for a while. And also, note that Sakuria is taking balance into issue this time around, buffing the horrible melee characters (Bowser, Kirby, ZELDA- a moves are definately buffed), and nerfing the superstrong melee characters (FOX, Ike (if he counts as marths replacement), sheik?), trying to get everyone in the middle.

IF shiek returns, expect her to be duly nerfed. People will still play her because well , shes a ninja, but I don't expect her to overshadow Zelda too much if at all.

Oh thats a possible scenario for SSE, but what if Zelda is saved instead of peach? Oh yeah, i really hope, if sheik is in, shes an FS because look at Samus, she seems to be just fine even with Zamus.
Ahh, true.
In all honesty, I thought Sheik's B moves were much better than Zelda's. If used right, the whip could trap an opponent easily to rack up damage.

I hadn't realized her A moves had been Buffed ENOUGH to nerf the B moves. =/
I hope her moves have been bugged quite a bit then. I was just a little disappointed by the Din's fire news. I use Din's fire quite regularly in Melee, and after practising with it a lot, I find it to be extremely useful once you learn how to aim it.

Hm. I hadn't though of that scenario O:
Perhaps that could be a way to balance them out?

Sheik could appear in cut scenes if Zelda is "trophy-ized" by Wario
Zelda appears in cut scenes if you save Zelda from Petey.


Still, I'm hoping Zelda will appear in MOST cut scenes, with Sheik only in the occasional cut scene
 

Tingle_Stole_My_Pants

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@rageagainst:

Link's Spin Attack could be charged to higher levels in OoT and MM. From the normal, non-magical one, to the blue glowy one, to the even more powerful red glowy one. And in WW, he could charge it to EPIC PROPORTIONS!! Hurricane Spin!

How did they determine that Din's Fire was changed? It seems kind of odd to figure out all that from a movie. I haven't seen any movies where Zelda was actually being played. The ones I did see about SSE had them rescuing Peach, not Zelda. I don't recall seeing Zelda very much... can you give me a link?
 

Luthien

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Shiek had arguably the worst B moves in game
You're kidding, right? Needles = best projectile in the game. Those things make up for anything else that's wrong with Sheik's special attacks.

(yes worse than Zelda's) but still was one of the top tier characters for a while. And also, note that Sakuria is taking balance into issue this time around, buffing the horrible melee characters (Bowser, Kirby, ZELDA- a moves are definately buffed), and nerfing the superstrong melee characters (FOX, Ike (if he counts as marths replacement), sheik?), trying to get everyone in the middle.

IF shiek returns, expect her to be duly nerfed. People will still play her because well , shes a ninja, but I don't expect her to overshadow Zelda too much if at all.
Was Fox nerfed? How badly? I suppose that's a fair point.

Oh thats a possible scenario for SSE, but what if Zelda is saved instead of peach? Oh yeah, i really hope, if sheik is in, shes an FS because look at Samus, she seems to be just fine even with Zamus.
I don't think it matters which one you save regarding the Sheik issue; Sheik is not the type that gets kidnapped/captured. That's ZELDA's turf. Sheik > cage. I don't see how Sakurai could cram Sheik in there, unless they decided to stick with the Sheik = female thing. They'd have to make Sheik REALLY feminine to get away with that. But I can just picture Sheik fighting Petey Pirahna ferociously, screaming "Over my dead body!" at the top of his/her lungs before setting one foot in that thing. Sheik's sole purpose was to keep Zelda from getting captured in the first place. Try to picture Marth... er... I mean Link, trapped in a cage, being held hostage. Doesn't fit, does it?
 

blink777

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I don't think it matters which one you save regarding the Sheik issue; Sheik is not the type that gets kidnapped/captured. That's ZELDA's turf. Sheik > cage. I don't see how Sakurai could cram Sheik in there, unless they decided to stick with the Sheik = female thing. They'd have to make Sheik REALLY feminine to get away with that. But I can just picture Sheik fighting Petey Pirahna ferociously, screaming "Over my dead body!" at the top of his/her lungs before setting one foot in that thing. Sheik's sole purpose was to keep Zelda from getting captured in the first place. Try to picture Marth... er... I mean Link, trapped in a cage, being held hostage. Doesn't fit, does it?
Wow wow wow. That's a very good point that I had never even thought of. The storyline they're currently setting out for Zelda really isn't condusive to Sheik. Floating around on warpstars with Kirby, captured by Petey, dragged around by Wario.

But then, I wouldn't have said Metaknight teaming up with the Ice Climbers was "in character", but there we are.

And of course, they could easily just ignore the fact that you're using Sheik in the game parts, but leaving the cutscenes as Zelda.
 

rageagainst

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@rageagainst:

Link's Spin Attack could be charged to higher levels in OoT and MM. From the normal, non-magical one, to the blue glowy one, to the even more powerful red glowy one. And in WW, he could charge it to EPIC PROPORTIONS!! Hurricane Spin!

How did they determine that Din's Fire was changed?
yes in almost all Zelda games link's spin attack can be charged but my point is, that if, like Zelda, this is TP Link, he shouldn't be able to charge his spin attack since he doesn't in TP. But since the link and Zelda are probably representatives of ALL links and Zelda's and most links charge their spin attacks, the SSBB link can charge his spin attack.

Though link and Zelda ARE reps for alll links and zeldas, they definately are BASED more off on the TP versions. Other than the hair links model is straight from TP, so is Zelda's except the tone has been subdued (in that the hair is more brown the blouse is more purple, she still is almost using the identical TP model though)

There are no videos on Dins fire changing as of yet, but this is a generally accepted fact around gamefaqs and beginning to here too. They supposodly saw a video where Zelda did the move and it did less dmg than melee at Jump Festa.

@luthien
Was Fox nerfed? How badly? I suppose that's a fair point.
Fox was technically nerfed, in that hes not the speed demon he was in melee and plays completely differently in Brawl. Read Gimpyfish's e4all impressions for a better idea, but this doesn't completely mean hes bad, it just means hes different and has different kill moves and such but we can definately say that hes not the overpowered wavedashing monster he was in melee, his power is probably similar to links and the rest.

And yes I got a little ahead of myself saying that Sheik had "the worst" special moves in game, but, like Zelda's, from a casual standpoint (which is the standpoint the game is going to be balanced by the devs) Sheik's specials are not as shiny or as inherently powerful as say fox's Bdown Link's Bup Samus' Bneutral or most characters' specials. I'm afraid the weak Din's fire is hinting a transformation but we dont exactly know its gonna be weak yet.

Like I said before SSE is a reason for me to believe it would be akward trying to fit shiek in the story, especially as a B down, I could see it working as an FS but it would seem really akward if Sheik is a B down. (if shes in, she WILL be in the story, just like Zamus is in the story, so that means they will have to work a way to fit Sheik in and it will b hard to do so by down b)
 

Kapusta.KO

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Well it could be an event that groups them together because they have two different playing styles.
"Magic vs Technology"


It would be rather weird to have them paired together if Zelda's downB was Sheik and Zamus had to wait to get a smash ball. Which, may I mention could either be stolen by Zelda or by the player. It just wouldn't be right. Also, Sheik couldn't be Zelda's final smash because it would be THE EXACT same final smash that Zamus and Samus share. Plus, theres more than enough transformation via Final Smash characters to go around.

A whole complete Zelda for Brawl :/
I wouldn't say that the Final Smash would be EXACTLY the same as Samus' when she transforms into Zero Suit Samus. Since at this point it is pretty much confirmed that Zelda's Final Smash is some type of Light Arrow move, then it could be completely different. Perhaps she shoots several and you can change the trajectory, or maybe its just one giant shot, similar to Samus' beam, however I think it would still be a solid concept. I'd actually prefer that a Sheik transformation is the end result of Zelda's Final Smash, seeing as how not only will that limit people to actually discover Zelda's true talent due to lack of being able to change to Sheik at any given moment. Also, its just a sweet idea, and no one would be able to ***** about how Sheik is too fast and cheap or anything, because Sheik is her Final Smash end-result for a limited time, and therefore would be accepted as a crazy son of a *****. Anyway, I'm still hoping that Sheik is her Final Smash end-result, and nice job noticing that event with both of them in it (directed towards the creator of the thread).
 
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