I think I found something VERY useful in the Fox vs. Rosalina matchup

[Tenretsujin10]

So, I hate star lady. There, I said it.

Getting in on her is pretty tough with Luma around and a Rosalina that holds shield, and their punish game on Fox hurts. But I think I figured out something very useful for this. Fox's Boost Pivot Grab.

For those who don't know what that is, it's when you run and start a dash attack then immediately cancel with a pivot grab. Fox's boost pivot grab seems unique that you get some insane range on it and can literally start the inputs in front of your opponent. So how does this help out against Rosalina & Luma? If the grab is done correctly, you'll be grabbing Rosalina and both characters will be sliding with a lot of ground momentum. This momentum (from what I tested If Luma is near Rosalina) will ALWAYS put Luma behind Rosalina and in the position where F-throw will knock her away, considerably far away. Like, half of FD far away.

I feel that utilizing this tech can help us space animals get some quality one on one time with star lady.

Anyone want to put input on this?

 

[Hattie]

How is Fox's boost pivot grab different to his normal one? For me they seem to go the same distance. Anyway, I could get this to work with just the normal pivot grab. The problem I think is that most Rosaluma players will just jab you as soon as you are in front of them.

 

[Tenretsujin10]

How is Fox's boost pivot grab different to his normal one? For me they seem to go the same distance. Anyway, I could get this to work with just the normal pivot grab. The problem I think is that most Rosaluma players will just jab you as soon as you are in front of them.

I've been playing around with it last night, it feels that the boost pivot grab has more range to it. I could literally input the commands for the grab before running past the opponent and still grab them. Using the normal pivot grab seemed iffy for me. And you use it as a mixup option, empty hop to land behind them then grab.

 

[Kaishin]

I remember a normal pivot grab with Fox already going an insane distance. I didn't even know you could pivot boost grab until you brought it up. I'll have to test this.

I main Rosalina and tried to secondary Fox (he's a ton of fun) and I actually remember pivot grabbing with Fox because it was easier than normal dash grab. Fox too fast 20XX.

On an actually related-to-topic note, I don't even know how you're going to manage to grab a Rosalina, boost grab or no, considering any good one isn't going to do anything but get close enough to make your laser unsafe and then prepare to dtilt any and every approach. You might as well just run up shield -> grab (whether boost, dash, or normal grab depending on how fare you slide) during our dtilt's endlag, then, when that doesn't work, accept that the MU is gonna be a -1 for you for a long time. =D

 

[Tenretsujin10]

I remember a normal pivot grab with Fox already going an insane distance. I didn't even know you could pivot boost grab until you brought it up. I'll have to test this.

I main Rosalina and tried to secondary Fox (he's a ton of fun) and I actually remember pivot grabbing with Fox because it was easier than normal dash grab. Fox too fast 20XX.

On an actually related-to-topic note, I don't even know how you're going to manage to grab a Rosalina, boost grab or no, considering any good one isn't going to do anything but get close enough to make your laser unsafe and then prepare to dtilt any and every approach. You might as well just run up shield -> grab (whether boost, dash, or normal grab depending on how fare you slide) during our dtilt's endlag, then, when that doesn't work, accept that the MU is gonna be a -1 for you for a long time. =D

I just need to practice consistently landing this grab. I feel that it would be a great tool to use against star lady, since knocking away Luma is pretty guaranteed.

 

[Hattie]

I agree, it's definitely a good option, once you have the grab. But Rosalina is probably the best in the game at avoiding grabs . You are probably more likely to get severely punished by going for it.

 

[Tenretsujin10]

I agree, it's definitely a good option, once you have the grab. But Rosalina is probably the best in the game at avoiding grabs . You are probably more likely to get severely punished by going for it.

I've been playing against a Rosalina that just sits in shield the entire time when I'm approaching. So I figured this would be a good punish tool for that. Land a grab, knock Luma away. Plus, whiffing the grab isn't that bad since there's minimal endlag to it and you would slide yourself in a not as precarious position.

 

[DarkFox207]

If you guys land a grab on her even at 0% do a quick pummel then wait a split second that way Luma gets behind Rosa and if we do a F throw it'll throw her offstage (luma). I saw it in ESAM's video in his "deal with it" series is an option that's pretty underused tbh.

 

[DavemanCozy]

Yep, F-throw has a hitbox which knocks Luma far away, so if the boost pivot grab positions Fox just at the right place to hit the star, you can get rid of Luma much more safely.

It's still not a matchup I enjoy because her range is really good and walls out Fox.

 

[Bloodcross]

boost pivot grab back throw, then dash attack luma to pop her up, then upb for 28% damage. you'll only need a couple lasers after to kill luma. might be good

 

[Smudges]

boost pivot grab back throw, then dash attack luma to pop her up, then upb for 28% damage. you'll only need a couple lasers after to kill luma. might be good

Definitely a good option. Bairs and Ftilts are also good for just pushing Luma around the stage. If the Rosalina is just camping in shield, you could just tomahawk in front/near her to try to bait out shield grab or something. You could even try just shooting a few lasers to get some damage in on Luma, because Rosalina is stuck in shield.

 

[DarkFox207]

boost pivot grab back throw, then dash attack luma to pop her up, then upb for 28% damage. you'll only need a couple lasers after to kill luma. might be good

There's a chance dash attack won't even move her..

 

[Bloodcross]

If you do a WEAK dash attack it won't move her. It's not by chance, it's by (too much lol) spacing.

But you should know that spacing and personally for me I never get weak dash attacks on purpose.

From 0% if you do 2 dash attacks you can FSmash luma away. 3 dash attacks you can DSmash her away. 4 dash attacks you can Bair her away. Last hit of Dair sends her away at 0% too. This is just random stuff I noticed but I don't know nearly enough other than this though.

 

[DarkFox207]

If you do a WEAK dash attack it won't move her. It's not by chance, it's by (too much lol) spacing.

But you should know that spacing and personally for me I never get weak dash attacks on purpose.

From 0% if you do 2 dash attacks you can FSmash luma away. 3 dash attacks you can DSmash her away. 4 dash attacks you can Bair her away. Last hit of Dair sends her away at 0% too. This is just random stuff I noticed but I don't know nearly enough other than this though.

I've noticed as well but I just don't like getting shield grabbed by Rosa ;_; it means a b throw and then we are offstage I usually bair her and pivot grab her then leave Luma in idle animation or usually a full hop dair works against the death star lol

 

[Planty]

I've been playing against a Rosalina that just sits in shield the entire time when I'm approaching. So I figured this would be a good punish tool for that. Land a grab, knock Luma away. Plus, whiffing the grab isn't that bad since there's minimal endlag to it and you would slide yourself in a not as precarious position.

that's a terrible Rosalina player then. Go against a good one and this wont work unless it's a mixup and even then it's iffy. You'll just get hit by D-tilt or jab when you try to go for a grab.

But lets say that you do get the grab, f-throw, Luma dies. Rosalina is just gonna be holding shield against you because your throws are not scary.

 

[Bloodcross]

then maybe try walk up grab then jab the spotdodge if they do spotdodge.

 

[PEACE7]

Tilts are really good against Rosa

 

[Tenretsujin10]

that's a terrible Rosalina player then. Go against a good one and this wont work unless it's a mixup and even then it's iffy. You'll just get hit by D-tilt or jab when you try to go for a grab.

But lets say that you do get the grab, f-throw, Luma dies. Rosalina is just gonna be holding shield against you because your throws are not scary.

This is more theorycraft that I started applying, As of now I just tomahawk behind the opponent then input the grabs. But yeah, i can already see some level of impracticality.

 

[Top Boss]

i versed and beat a pretty good rosalina in a tournament yesterday(in WF and GF). In order to win, I spaced a lot of bairs to kill off/separate luma and rack up damage. i would also make sure rosalina is above me and i punished her landings with SH up air combos which racked up a ton of damage. Most of my KO's came from edgeguards since our up tilt and down smash interfere with rosalina's recovery pretty easily. Also, if rosalina tries to air dodge your SH up air, that's a free up smash.