I suck vs samus!

[Ryan-K]

Ok this probably makes me a marth failure lol but hear me out and help me emblem, cactuar etc. please!

I have trouble vs samus' general CC and sidestep gayness. I try to grab her but its so dumb trying to get in because her sidestep seems like retardedly good and it seems her dsmash has about the same length as marths aerials. I know dair is supposed to be good against CCing except it doesnt have the same range as say fair and the lag makes me uncomfortable. When they sidestep spam I have trouble with samus and samus only because one of a few things happens.

- I try to grab and get punished by something that shouldn't even ****ing happen.
- Aerial gets CCed or if it's not nair side stepped.
- I hesitate, and wait and get punished anyway.

I get very frustrated and anxious when sami tend to side step spam because unlike say space animals it seems harder imo to space out samus because of her swiftass dsmash and her amazing CC. As I said before I have trouble trying to grab her because of her dumb sidestep. Another problem I have is I don't know all the options I have for dealing with side dodges and CCing and such. Even when I do dash dtilt retreat it seems they can CC it and retaliate before I can abuse my IASA frames.

Help is very much appreciated thanks in advance, I hope I detailed my dilemma enough!

 

[Fade016]

well im not to stuck on vsing samus players either but, try dash dancing for a grab then go back making them side step then dash dance back in during the lag, after there side step and grab her. other wise try tipping fairs when she is CCing or SH double fairs when she side steps 1 the other one should own her. might not be the best help but try it out if you want

 

[Rune]

Why are you trying to grab and use aerials vs a dodge-happy CCing Samus? Adapt. As long as it's doing this, do something devastating to this type of game until it stops doing this.

Spam some downtilts her way, dodge that.

 

[Ryan-K]

Well I didn't know what else to do because grabbing is the only thing that takes her out of CC really and as I said I would get punished for dtilts too sometimes.] but ill try using more i guess

 

[TedBoosley]

Well I didn't know what else to do because grabbing is the only thing that takes her out of CC really and as I said I would get punished for dtilts too sometimes.] but ill try using more i guess

You really have to space correctly and not go for random grabs. Fair out of shield is nice, and you have to edgeguard well. Defensive/Spacing oriented Marths do better against Samuses than do aggressive ones.

I'll also address your earlier stuff:

1. Defensive play solves this.
2. Only nair if you're meeting them in the air or they're too high to CC, and just dashdance if you think they're going to cc into a dsmash, or just space fairs (should push them back enough).
3. If you're just waiting without a defensive buffer (dashdancing, shielding, etc) you're just ********.

As far as edgeguarding, remember that Samus's up-B is incredibly difficult to sweetspot, and if you manage to interrupt the grapple, that's all they can use to reach the ledge. (watch for unsweetspotted grapples, since they'll pop up above the ledge and you can d-tilt them or f-smash them, thus forcing them to up-B on the next approach, which can usually be punished by an f-smash.)

All in all, defensive play and edgeguarding beat Samus.

 

[Imperial Wraith]

Deeee tilt!

Its > Than crouch cancelers, and has ISA! Sweet eh?

 

[Ijuka]

lol at IASA FRAMEZZZZ. >_>

They spam sidestep? space, fsmash tipper the lag of sidestep. They abuse cc? Space, fsmash tipper the crouch. When you see them sidestep, attack the lag. Space fair so that you hit with the tip and move backwards. Dash dance around, wait for sidestep, destroy. fsmash>CC. Dtilt>CC as well Grab>CC the most. Just play smart and space well. Common sense? And Rune ftw.

 

[Rune]

And Rune ftw.

Wait what?

 

[UMBC Super Smasher]

Superryan, I had a very similar experience yesterday when I played a good local samus player (Appletree). I'll upload those videos (I lost both games in the set), then play some more matches in a few more days after some samus practice. Hopefully there will be a difference, seeing how I used to beat samus.

The match-up is pretty-much like the earlier posts said: use dtilt to make samus approach from the air. When she is forced to approach from the air, start a combo. From my experience, it seems samus' ground game beats marth's, which is why it makes sense to force samus to approach from the air. It is still a difficult match-up though, cause if marth messes up the timing on a fair through a missile, it can lead to a lot more damage or death.

 

[Cactuar]

I just spam fair at Samus. I've beaten Hugs and Wes in tournament with this "strategy".

 

[Dark Sonic]

You really have to space correctly and not go for random grabs. Fair out of shield is nice, and you have to edgeguard well. Defensive/Spacing oriented Marths do better against Samuses than do aggressive ones.

I'll also address your earlier stuff:

1. Defensive play solves this.
2. Only nair if you're meeting them in the air or they're too high to CC, and just dashdance if you think they're going to cc into a dsmash, or just space fairs (should push them back enough).
3. If you're just waiting without a defensive buffer (dashdancing, shielding, etc) you're just ********.

As far as edgeguarding, remember that Samus's up-B is incredibly difficult to sweetspot, and if you manage to interrupt the grapple, that's all they can use to reach the ledge. (watch for unsweetspotted grapples, since they'll pop up above the ledge and you can d-tilt them or f-smash them, thus forcing them to up-B on the next approach, which can usually be punished by an f-smash.)

All in all, defensive play and edgeguarding beat Samus.

Nah uhh.

I feel that it's more effective to keep the pressure on Samus rather than waiting for them. If they sidestep your down tilt you can use the IASA frames to grab instead of trying to retreat. Since Samus likes to crouch cancel everything just make sure that you're still in the air after your attack. Approach with a rising Fair rather than a falling one and then retreat with a waveland or something. Spaced nairs also makes a good approach because it often knocks her out of range of her down smash. For edgeguarding I think that ledgehopped bairs are your best option. D-tilts and shffl'd dairs are nice too.

 

[bludhoundz]

If you JC grab, I think you'll be able to nail Samus with another grab after the sidestep because of the speed of it.

Also a B forward combo MIGHT work. Against a sidestep, the second hit will get them, and a CC will allow you to land all 4 hits most likely (even more if you end with a down). The only problem I foresee is if they sidestep and the hitstun from the 2nd hit isn't enough and you get hit back. If that's the case, you can just B forward -> JC grab after the sidestep is done.

All that said, try to get this Samus in the air. There's no CC or sidestep to worry about, and you have more range and generally more priority.

 

[Nightblade]

I generally have trouble against Samus as well, but here's what I do to combat her.

1) When edgeguarding and you have time, use Neutral B. Especially on levels like Yoshi's Island where the edge is lower than most of the stage, the fact that it reaches down a little bit helps. Otherwise, I find Counter to be effective.
2) Keep Samus above you. A lot of Samus' game, as far as I can tell, comes from equal footing or from below. Utilt and SHFFLed uairs can be very effective, and out-prioritize her dair/nair if I remember correctly.'
3) I know a lot of people swear by the fair, but I prefer the nair against a projectile spammer like Samus or Doc. It simply feels safer, whether or not it is.

 

[Ken34]

I just spam fair at Samus. I've beaten Hugs and Wes in tournament with this "strategy".

this man speaks the truth. I main samus, and I go against marth alot, having CC helps, but once they start spamming d-tilts and fairs it sucks for me. also, if they sidestep alot, Nair kills that easily. if your playing a good samus, spacing is everything....and i mean EVERYTHING in that match-up.

 

[The Brawler]

When pepole say they suck againsts someone their usually missing something, like you really need to be faster than the other player to be able to be better then them. Like to know what his gonna do next.

 

[Umpy]

I just spam fair at Samus. I've beaten Hugs and Wes in tournament with this "strategy".

i totally agree. if you take away her missles she is powerless. and pick yoshi's story. marth should never lose on that level. ever.

 

[QDVS]

I'm too lazy to vocalize any help concerning the matchup, but if you're interested, I have some recent vids of me up vs. Phanna and Rohins's Samus' from a tourney 2 weeks ago!!!

Just check phanna's youtube profile to find them or search QueenDVS on youtube!!!

 

[maXXXpower]

It's been said already, but F-Air. A lot.

Also, try to maintain your spacing. Samus has a lot of reach; not as much as Marth, but close. Don't be afraid to play a bit campy, as one mistake around Samus will get you a crouch-canceled D-Smash or D-Tilt, or perhaps even an out of shield Up-B. My point it to take advantage of your enormous sword.

 

[B-Will]

Yeah....superior spacing with fairs and dtilts are key. You really shouldn't be able to be CCC'd if you space right.

 

[Taalcon]

Campy is good. Gives me a change to charge my big ball of boom!...and spam you with missiles...Pokemon stadium ftw!

 

[Gian]

what i do (it works very well for me) is: try to get a grab at 0% f-throw followed up by fair combo.... (note that almoust all the samus players will jump away from the f-throw, use this as an advantage and aim ur fair where samus will jump at) other than that spam fairs and have a nice edge guarding ( fsmash for up B, ledge hoped bairs when shes bombing, and something i like to do when i know they are gonna graple, i stay on the ledge, she use graple and is hangin, just w8 for her to move and at that moment drop from ledge and do up-B this kill make her bounce with the stage and die xD, but watch out cuz she can catch up on this and edge tech it, but still u will be on edge guarding position.

 

[max32090]

do a lot of fairs

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

the person i play against the most is a samus, and ive learned a lot of things through the years. here is a really easy way to break down samus's game with any char.

samus is fairly weak in the air. she generally only has 2 attacks, fair and nair. nair has priority and fair has somewhat of a disjointed hitbox. while this sounds good, she can not shffl at any acceptable pace, and her moves have a good amount of lag.

but how do you get her into the air? camp. to some, it might sound silly to camp a samus, but its a really easy and effective strategy that forces her to come at you. find a move that easily beats projectiles (marth's jab works well, and most-- if not all-- sex kicks go through them) and stay in one spot, dash dance, and force her to come to you. eventually she will and will do one of the following: dash attack, grab, aerial (read previous paragraph), shield or WD back. sometimes she might shoot a missile and run behind it.

what ive found to be most effective vs just about everything is to WD back before anything else. if she dash attacks or grabs you will at least have a bit more time to react and dodge (shield grab dash attack, sh over grab then line up a tipper). if she shields or WDs back, you wont have just fallen into her trap of making you attack. if she shot a missile and followed you have to read the field and think fast. depending on how close she is following you might be able to sh fair and destroy the missile and hit her too. usually her approach isnt too different behind a missile, though i tend to see a lot more grabs (many people will just panic and shield the missile). you could probably get away with WDing back and jabing the missile, jumping and wave landing on the platform above you, jumping (though they will get wise and nair you, maybe fair them or air dodge the nair), or even shielding. if you shield be ready to sh over a grab if they do, otherwise you are in good shape.

basically, her approach is highly abusable, so do it. if you really want to rush in at her, be tricky. dont try for SHDF, if you want to fair do a falling one and dtilt right away. if they like to spot dodge your approach use nair. if they WD back to fsmash dont be predictable (WD back/shield/dashdance) and abuse fsmash lag (which is a TON). if they just like to CC, grab them or dash attack (i believe it makes them fall if they CC, though i might be wrong, i dont use dash attack). Also, dtilts really kill CCers, so just dash towards them and DC Dtilts at them. i love that approach, and samus's hate it.

 

[Odin916]

As many people have said, use the Fairs to keep your distance. Maybe a down tilt A once in a while to switch it but, from my experience that Down Smash A that Samus has can still hit you. I don't even wanna say I'm competent, nor anywhere near being able to play a Marth competently but try to manage your distance with Forward Tilt A's, just to switch it up. There's always the Nair, but then again, the 2nd hit only knocks back. I've noticed it doesn't do that well with Shffl ( I tend to only get the first slash off before hitting the ground, canceling the second slash ).

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

There's always the Nair, but then again, the 2nd hit only knocks back. I've noticed it doesn't do that well with Shffl ( I tend to only get the first slash off before hitting the ground, canceling the second slash ).

try doing the nair right as you jump not doing it at the peak of your jump. actaully, if u fast fall slightly later, you wont need to lcancel as the move ends just before you hit the ground.

 

[Odin916]

Cool, will try. Thanks for the advice, I'll give it a try... or 034257029348572034598 of them. I am not a Melee natural : (