I still don't understand why Norfair is banned

[Kietharr]

The lava from bottom and side isn't an issue, the huge firey plume that comes out of nowhere and moves is. Can't count the times it's nailed me or forced me to stay in an unfavorable position with lava coming from other areas.

 

[Dogysamich]

Are you serious? For tournament play, a level should have as little potential to cause harm as possible. A tournament should be a test of two players going against each other and skill winning out. With a level that can cause damage, an element of randomness is introduced when it doesn't have to be.

There's a place for levels like Norfair, and even Warioware, when you're playing with friends at home. Just keep it out of tournaments, though.

ROFL

Tell that to campneria! or the other half of the stages that were legal and are legal. XD

 

[Lore]

Personally, I think it should be counter-pick. The lava hazards are slow enough for you to dodge them, and the big wave can be jumped over easily. Plus, I've never seen it more than once in a match, but of course, I usually finish up my cpu matches in a couple minutes.

 

[pyro363]

I do agree that all stages should be in tournament but think of it this way. your in the finals and you want to win. to win you need the best advantage possible. Nofair first of all the name itself is a turnoff. Then lava can own you from all sides so that also makes it tourney banned. It may be hard to grab back on the stage after being knocked off. There's a few but there are many more reasons and i hope now you understand.

 

[Mic_128]

I do agree that all stages should be in tournament but think of it this way. your in the finals and you want to win. to win you need the best advantage possible.

To me, lava that I could knock my opponent into would be an advantage, even if my opponent would still have it too.

Then lava can own you from all sides so that also makes it tourney banned.

Despite pleanty of warning and ease of avoidance?

It may be hard to grab back on the stage after being knocked off..

Uh...you know that goes for pretty much any stage, right?

 

[Undrdog]

Look some stages are monsters that kill you with very little to no warning. This isn't one of them. The only thing going against this stage is that it alters the flow of the match. And ya know what? We need to completely reform our position on banning stages. And by "our" I mean the Smash Backroom or whoever it was that screwed over Melee. There were plenty of levels that shouldn't've been banned but were due to nitpicky things. Like Onett for instance. The cars weren't that big a deal. Anyone with eyes could see that. Kongo Jungle was banned because of a claptrap you could see coming from miles away. (And don't tell me you could actually camp on that little island. Anybody with a shred of skill could force their opponents off of that.)

In the end I think it's coming down to this. People who are still stuck on the old mindset of "everything that has anything suspicious needs to be banned", and the people who are either new or are actually thinking for themselves.

 

[Mic_128]

Like Onett for instance. The cars weren't that big a deal. Anyone with eyes could see that.

I'm pretty sure that was because Fox could infinite shine you against a wall.

 

[Vap]

To me, lava that I could knock my opponent into would be an advantage, even if my opponent would still have it too.



Despite pleanty of warning and ease of avoidance?



Uh...you know that goes for pretty much any stage, right?

I feel you on maybe it shouldn't be banned, but I'm interested on people winning with skill. Not sometimes a little lucky, or memorized the stage

 

[Mic_128]

1. Memorise the stage? Is it really something you need to practise that when the camera zooms back and the lava slooooooowly moves in that you need to get out of the way?

2. I'm intersted in peoplw inning with skill too, but what bugs me is people who assume hazards = no skill. It's not like the lava randomly appears from no where at an undodgable speed and kills everyone on the stage. If you lack the skill to get out of the way of the side lava, or even press shield when the big wave comes, maybe you should be playing a different game.

And I think it takes skill to be able to get someone into a hazard that they're doing everything in their new multiple dodge, improved powershielding, super armour grab powers to avoid.

 

[BigRick]

its probably going to be set as a counterpick stage because it shares the same characteristics of other Melee counterpick stages

 

[Baky]

My concern in particular is not necessarily your ability to dodge the lava, but your ability to dodge your opponents grab. When the lava does come from the side you can be easily tossed into it and from passed experiences I remember dying quite easily. May have been at a high percentage those times though, don't play the stage anyways. My friends tend to not enjoy the superiority a stage of platforms gives to specific characters vs specific characters.

 

[munsif]

I believe i is no-fair hahahahah lol i crack myself up

But seriously i think it is banned because slower charcters have more of a chance of being hit cause they are too slow to get away from the lava ( just a thought please no flaming) and ness and lucas whos up revoverys need space to b done- underneath the platforms rgeir ph thunder wull get stopped bt the platforms( just another thought)

 

[Rokk141]

Any objection due to specific character problems is the reason why it is a counterpick stage. You know you are going to play on Norfair, so you can pick a character that is not disadvantaged by the lava or the aerial combat the layout puts emphasis on.

 

[Baky]

Any objection due to specific character problems is the reason why it is a counterpick stage. You know you are going to play on Norfair, so you can pick a character that is not disadvantaged by the lava or the aerial combat the layout puts emphasis on.

A counterpick is a counterpick, I agree

but I would disagree if anyone would say that any person with any character deserves the opportunity to kill someone as easily as throwing them at the lava that covers more than half the platforms. Considering that half the platforms are covered up, someone has a lot less space and therefore and easier time to grab and throw them at the lava. Then they bounce off to the other side of the stage a.k.a their death. Of course I don't expect many people preferring this stage so I don't intend to play on it.

 

[Yuna]

I'm pretty sure that was because Fox could infinite shine you against a wall.

No, it was because Fox could shine combo you off the walkoff edge.

 

[Mic_128]

My concern in particular is not necessarily your ability to dodge the lava, but your ability to dodge your opponents grab.

That's down to your own skill level. Learn not to be grabbed. It's something that's universal to all stages.

 

[0RLY]

IMO, this would be a good counterpick stage. It reminds me a bit of Melee's Jungle Japes level with more platforms and lava instead of water.

 

[marthmaster04]

Its a stage hazard that can give a potential handicap situationally to one player over another. While it CAN be dodged, and shielded etc. That won't always be the case, no single advantage should be given to another player outside of his skills, abilities, or counterpicks.

A decent counterpick stage, but I'd rather see it banned personally.

 

[Caturdayz]

I would personally like to see Norfair be a counterpick level. There is little advantage if any to be given to a specific character, and it is actually rather fun. As much as I love my neutral stages, playing on Final Destination every single match would eventually get old.

 

[Kio Iranez]

This stage should be completely legal...because of the Norfair Remix.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=d7Baz7KdKk4

:3

 

[BigRick]

Any objection due to specific character problems is the reason why it is a counterpick stage. You know you are going to play on Norfair, so you can pick a character that is not disadvantaged by the lava or the aerial combat the layout puts emphasis on.

excellent post