I need testing, because nobody will believe me since I can't get vids.

[Ishiey]

UTILT SPIKES.

I think. This happened to me once, and I'm positive it wasn't just my opponent DIing down like a moron. I hit with utilt at a low %, then another utilt afterwards. The second utilt hit with the heel part, and my cousin got sent downwards into the stage, exactly like a spike (it was like utilt knockback except downwards). This might somehow be useful by the ledge if it actually works, I haven't had time to attempt recreating it yet, but if anyone else has spare time, look into this a little bit. Maybe this will end up like that fair spike, completely useless because of the timing and positioning, but who knows.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Sounds weird...but Wolf has some wird hitboxes...like the 2nd hit of the usmash or the "elbow" of the bair.

 

[WulfFla$h]

Hmm... Sounds pretty interesting. Wolf's 3rd spike... I'll look into it. It would be awesome if Wolf had a 3rd spike in his moveset.

 

[Ishiey]

I've stagespiked with Usmash before too, somehow. I couldn't find out exactly where the hitbox for it was though. It doesn't sound like much of a stretch for utilt though, if this is comfirmed it could be a viable edgeguarding technique if your opponent recovers above the ledge for some reason.

 

[Lv.99]

Test both ways. Have someone DI down and view the results. Then attept a u-tilt with 0% DI. I'd say do a couple hundred to make sure it wasn't a fluke.

 

[Ishiey]

I'll do that tomorrow, from 3-5, as long as my friend agrees to be my slave and hold positions on the control stick for two hours. Results will be posted right after, % of times it worked when it probably should've, same for the opposite, etc. I'll try it on a platform, so that there will be more room for the spike to be evident.

And as always, having someone else test this if they have time would be helpful too, but you might want to wait unitl I post my results.

 

[§witch]

4th spike**
Fair does as well.

 

[da K.I.D.]

wolfs f-air spikes?

 

[ArcPoint]

Yes, it's just hard to hit.

And I do have to ask... WTF is up with Wolf's hitboxes? >_>

 

[Ishiey]

I have a theory, actually.

Sakurai remembers what happened to Melee. It was more competitive than he wanted it to be, with the spacies being top tier. Everyone wanted another one in Brawl, but since most people wanted Krystal, he put Wolf in, cause that's what Sakurai does. Now, he wanted to screw over all aspects of competition (hence why we have MK). Fox got nerfed because not only does Sakurai hate characters that can compete, but being the bad guy he hates the good guy. Falco is still good, because he's a **** just like Sakurai, somewhat like his bias towards kirby characters. The newbie, Wolf, would have to seem good to follow the trend. He made wolf a character who would've certainly have been top tier in melee, but decided to **** him over. To piss off noobs, he made upB have a near nonexistent sweetspot. To piss off tourney-goers, he made Wolf easy to gimp, combo, and chaingrab. To piss off those of us who like to find new things to further the metagame, he put in stupid stuff like the fair spike on one frame with only one pixel of the attack to make us go crazy when we find out something that is so epic is borderline impossible to do. So while Wolf was meant to be seen as a good character at a quick glance, he was put in to frustrate gamers so Sakurai could make a crappy SSB4 (if he even made one), similar to mario party 37 or whatever.

Basically Sakurai hates us a bit more than everyone else, besides Captain Falcon.


TIME TO MAKE SENSE:
My friend couldn't assist with testing, I tried on a computer but my timing is hideous ._. If you use utilt, you'll notice three phases of the attack. First phase it goes up to its peak. Second phase, the shortest one and the one I THINK can spike, is where his foot moves down about the length of his foot in a slightly jerky motion. My theory is that hitting in this phase with the bottom of the foot is the spike, but I have yet to actually prove anything. Third phase his foot just goes completely down. If it works this way, the spike is obviously going to be difficult to actually use because of the timing and how you'll usually hit the person with the first hit, but it could work on a recovering lucario that misses the ledge for whatever reason................. I'd really appreciate it if someone who's actually capable could test this, I'll still do my best but I don't have a lot of time to try this out, nor the people to help me do so. But either way, keep in mind that even if it exists, it's probably not practical.

 

[Kikuichimonji]

4th spike**
Fair does as well.

WHAT. How does that work? What part of the hitbox?

 

[WulfFla$h]

Utilt and Fair has spike? Wolf has some WEIRD hitboxes >_>
Upward kick shouldn't spike D: Well, Fair sorta looks like Mario's Fair, but still... Weird hitboxes...

 

[JawKnee~]

So where exactly does Fair spike?

 

[Darth JoBak]

did you try wobbling on the ledge then utilting while they hang on to the ledge?
Wolf's standing foot has a hitbox as well....

 

[PK-ow!]

If it makes any kind of physical sense, it will be when the foot is on the way up, possibly at the peak. I would suspect it's the same frame as the sound effect onset.

The sweetspot being the heel makes sense, but if we learn anything from Luigi, it could be Wolf's kneecap for all we know.

Test test test. God**** I hate being away from my Brawl. I would so test this, for hours.

*~*~*~
My theory is that the programmers, themselves sympathetic towards gaming, mutinied under Sakurai's tyrannous rule. They snuck in all the codes that we know are supposed to be in there, and colluded with the playtesters (if there were any ) in keeping them under wraps, hoping Sakurai would never himself notice. An easy bet.

Unless I misunderstand the meaning of 'mutiny'. Technicalities.

 

[Ishiey]

Yeah, I know about utilt's hitbox being on both feet. I posted it before, in a place no one would find it, cause I suck like that Oh, and I have no idea where the fair spike is (somewhere towards the end of the attack IIRC), but it's only happened like, 5 times or something, so if I were you I wouldn't spend time on it.

Well, PK-ow, in the second phase that I mentioned, wolf does a little motion similar to snake's fair, so I was thinking that could be it, but I guess you're right, for all we know the hitbox could be on wolf's crotch. I wish I was able to test this properly, if anyone ever finds this out please post here. I won't be able to test it anytime soon, with school and my lack of buddies to help me test it... so don't expect any contributions from me about this anytime soon.

Nice theory, btw. Everyone loves theories. I just hope the programmers realized that we would be going crazy when trying to use this stuff, so hopefully they have a subtle way of hinting if each special hitbox is nearly impossible to use properly. I mean, luigi's taunt is apparently the strongest spike in the game, so obviously someone was doing us favors in there

 

[Ris747]

I sat in training testing for literally an hour and could not find a hit-box that spiked. I tried it on all speeds I could, I tried it with the enemy ducking, me standing backwards and forwards, I tried it with the enemy jumping trying to time it to get in all areas of the heel and leg, top of foot, everything. The best I could find was that Wolf's back seems to have a hit-box that does less knockback and does 2% less damage. Also if you hit around the heel it hits them forward a little bit, and maybe if the enemy was fastfalling it could seem like a spike. If you were talking about a full blown spike, I couldn't find it...

 

[Ishiey]

Thanks for testing it Ris! Well, when it happened to me, the opponent was falling from an utilt right below it at low/mid %, and in front of me, but I don't remember much else... my opponent was probably fast falling... WHY DIDN'T I SAVE A REPLAY. I wouldn't try to test this any more, there are more useful things that can be done in that time. Once again though, I appreciate the testing, and if anyone else wants to try they are welcome to, but just know that it's probably a waste of time.

 

[Loup17]

i have a theory too. i think that any attack that is meant to launch them straight up can also spike, like the d-tilt of link and ike, try standing on a platform and hitting someone as they're coming up in front of you. i can't test it right now because i'm on a trip and away from my game systems ><