I need help fighting Azen!!! >< vids inside

[TheYoster]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqJcJO16r2g

To start off anyone who doesn't know Azen, he is probably the best smasher in the east coast, if not definitely the top 3.

Please share me your yoshi knowledge on how I can make my yoshi better thanks =)

 

[Kiwikomix]

The biggest thing I noticed is that, once Azen's Lucario got to higher percentages, he started using dair and fsmash a lot more. As such, don't situate yourself below him when he's in the air (you put yourself in this position a lot), and be careful approaching him on the ground, as his fsmash has ridiculous range.
I also noticed your ground-based Yoshi bombs couldn't hit him from too far away, since he can DI pretty well. Try to avoid using them from that distance.
It looks like you're stuck in the same rut Lil'B finds himself in. Just keep at it (maybe practice on other Lucarios?) and you'll get it eventually.

 

[bigman40]

I noticed that Azen loves dem Dairs. Yoshi can't beat them straight on. So, I'd suggest DJing around them (to the side), and then Bairing him to get some dmg onto him.

Kiwi noticed the amount of smashes so I won't get into that.

Yoshi's shield should be a last resort when he's up close, and both of you are at low %s. As you ate that CG, you can probably try to run away from him more, instead of getting trapped in the egg. It's fine though at higher %s. Just be careful that they can kill you with that ForwardB if they do catch you.

Your placement in grabbing seemed a tad off too. Some moves you can get a easy grab in (Bair to DashGrab at about 3 mins, or juggling them at low percents and bait the airdodge then grab them as they land).

Idk if this might be able to get Azen, but try to get a hyphen, semi-charged Usmash. It can surprisingly duck under some attacks, and can get a kill move off better than the Fsmash. (Lucario can die easier vertically. So, try to get some different ways of killing vertically to get the killing trouble lessened)

I got this tip from another Yoshi mainer. If you can tell they're going to shield, egg lay them to get some breathing room. You're on the ledge ALOT and it might come useful if you know when to use it.

That's about all the tips I got watching it for the first time. If you can keep your Killers fresh till about 130, then you might be able to get him dead better. As some of the killing moves you were using (cept Fsmash) were stale by a tad. Hope this helps!

 

[TheYoster]

Hmm..yeah I do notice that now. I'll work on breaking that habit. Also I'll definitely work on making sure I don't situate myself below him next time. His fair->dair can be real annoying to approach =\ Is that any move yoshi has that can out prioritize his dair?

Thanks alot for the evaluation and tips Kiwiko.

 

[TheYoster]

Double post

Thanks bigman
Wow this is good stuff^^. Bair->grab is a new one to me =D. I'll definitely try out the egg lay move. I always question when to use my egg lay move, so I rarely ever use it. Instead of legding alot you think I should DI to the other side? I was thinking of something like trying to DI all the way to the other side with egg throws then reverse Down B to grab the ledge there. lol yeah I like the ledge alot. Ensures that my yoshi gets a safe recovery(maybe..).

you're awesome thanks alot for the help

 

[Scarlet Jile]

DI-ing too far in one direction makes your landing predictable. Ledging isn't that bad of an option against Lucario, just make sure you drop back to use ECEs, otherwise you'll be taking blue balls to the face.

And that's never a good thing.

 

[DstyCube]

I guess I'll mention some other stuff you could work on:

You might want to work on varying your recoveries a little more. I know how hard it is to play against a good Lucario especially because they have very good ledge guarding abilities. Most good Lucario players want you to be on the ledge, just something to watch out for. But I'm pretty sure every time you were on the ledge it was 3-5 ledge egg tosses, followed up by a ledge hop. Recovering from very high up you like to Yoshi bomb to ledge (or ledge cancel it on Yoshi's Island). I'm actually surprised you didn't get punished more for being so predictable.

On the stage, try hard not to roll too much. Like bigman said, shield should be used as a last resort when up close. Spacing is very important in this match up. If you do find yourself in close range, I'd suggest using ftilts and dtilts. Ftilts are quicker and have a little more range than Lucario's, and dtilts if you feel you want some more space. It's also kind of hard to spot dodge Lucario's shadow ball, if you must, shield it.

P.S. - Lucario's jab -> jab -> over b is a very annoying combo, try to avoid it.

 

[Ryusuta]

Lucario

There's TC's problem, right there. You could have dispensed with the rest, to be honest.

 

[Shiri]

This was very good stuff. I enjoyed watching these.

As for Lucario's forward air to down air bit, the most you can do is get good/lucky DI on the forward air to escape. You can also double jump through the down air sometimes, but I don't think it's worth it. Running away is the best idea, but even that's risky since Lucario can just follow up with Aura Sphere spam. It's tough, but I'm sure if you keep an eye on when that particular approach is used with Azen's playstyle, you'll find a way to escape it that makes you safe.

As for down air in general, if it's being used from directly above (most likely after a tilt or a throw), you can space it really well with up smash. Be careful. Remember that Yoshi jumps during his upsmash, so try to release it just as Lucario's second foot is going down so you can catch him in that sweetspot between consecutive down aerials. You can bait down aerials with up throw much more than down throw, but at lower percentages, this is obviously a bad idea.

Besides Azen's spacing and his myriad down aerials, he rarely seems to use it when it seems like it could be baited, which is tough. I find the best or easiest way to fight Lucario is to know what move he's going to do when you want him to and react accordingly since it's very hard to meet him head on. With that said, try to spot out when he feels comfortable doing certain moves (as noted by posts above) and capitalize on that as much as you can.

I hope these suggestions don't seem like cop outs since the advice isn't very specific.

I really enjoyed these videos. Keep it up.

 

[Fingerp@ss]

Lucario can be just constant air attacks. If you are hit you are gonna get chained with other aerials depending on your DI. Get in and airdoge past him if you meet mid air, chances are that he'll keep chaining his attacks (fair/nair > dair > dair, etc.) even when you dodge past him. So airdoge past him and Bair, pivot grab, dash attack or get away and give him the breakfast. When on the ledge your best bet is to time his attacks and hop/get up high and over him however possible and when he gets really close just roll/crawl past him since he'll most likey go for the Dair.

Yoshi's Uair is really hard to get in as a kill move since Lucario Dair is so fast however use the invincibility frames from the DJ/riser Uair to nail him.

You did really well on the first stock its just kinda hard to get the kill move on Lucario.

 

[Forsworn]

I'm not a tourney-goer by any means, but I'll state my quick opinion.

At around 4:08, you threw an egg as Lucario recovered and then went way under him, I assume for an U-air kill. I would have ordered up more eggs to keep him busy while you anticipate his reaction to them. Especially when he's at around that distance from you in the air, try doing FH/SH Egg throw, following the egg as it moves forward, then going for a regular U-air/rising U-air (possibly N-air too for horizontal kill?). It helps me a lot in getting that precious KO, but again I don't face many people like Azen so what do I know.

Very entertaining matches, though. Keep it up!

EDIT: I saw you do it on his 1st stock on Yoshi's Island, albeit on the ground and unfortunately not killing him. Try the aerial version next time and see how it works out.

 

[E.G.G.M.A.N.]

Hmmm...I think you came to the wrong place my friend. You might want to post this in tactical discussion. Or better yet, on allisbrawl, you'll need help from people who've actually played (and maybe even defeated) Azen if you want to beat him.

 

[Shiri]

Hahahaha!

Tactical Discussion boards give me BIG LULZ for breakfast!

 

[Kiwikomix]

Hey Shiri...
I saw you post in an area besides the Yoshi boards the other day (Tactical), and I was very surprised.
Also, AiB has a much larger idiot population than SWF, hard as that may be to believe.

 

[KiwiBear]

I think everything was said here that he could improve on...

But yeah, you were definitely like a kindergarden book (easy to read)
Don't be so dependent on eggs, and the downB, or shielding. Yoshi is at his utter worse from the shield and all you did was invite this guy to your exploits in almost every situation. If lucario was approaching from the air, and you got some space either egg roll it to the other side or side dogde and COUNTER. Most of the time you spent running which just got you cornered and punished in the end =\

 

[TheYoster]

Looking back at the video now I see ftilts could of saved me alot of the times when I'm in close quarter with azen. It would of definitely saved my 2nd stock at the second match if I used it to cancel his fsmash like I did with my jab.

Also what strategy/tactics do you guys usually use to bait your opponents to pivot grab?

And I find that my recovery game need a little work egging the edge all the time does have its limitations=\.
But its my best option for now when I know their waiting for me on the ground. In Bwett vids I sometime see him use his rising DJ dair for edge recovery when the opponent is on the ground. Thats seems reliable. Can anyone share their recovery methods on the edge?

To everyone these are really good tips guys thanks alot ^_^ keep it coming=)

 

[TheYoster]

I think everything was said here that he could improve on...

But yeah, you were definitely like a kindergarden book (easy to read)
Don't be so dependent on eggs, and the downB, or shielding. Yoshi is at his utter worse from the shield and all you did was invite this guy to your exploits in almost every situation. If lucario was approaching from the air, and you got some space either egg roll it to the other side or side dogde and COUNTER. Most of the time you spent running which just got you cornered and punished in the end =\

Lol yeah I didn't really have enough experience with the match-up so I ran most of the time, trying to avoid his high priority moves and pressure him with eggs. Lucky for me its seems Azen didn't have much experience fighting yoshi's so I got some good KOs in there.

 

[chimpact]

I expected 2-3 stocks. It seems that Lucario is a terrible matchup for Yoshi since you have to time Upsmash kills perfects and your Fsmash is outranged/prioritized. you can't go under him for easy KO's like the rest of the characters. You did really good. I'm surprised other people aren't surprised. >__>

One thing you need help with is stop focusing on the big ko. You got him to 100sh and then you started spamming Uairs, Upsmashes and Fsmashes. Use the Nair to send him horizontally and try to edge hog him. Lucario doesn't have the best recovery, so it is relatively easy to gimp him.

 

[Pierce7d]

I'm not a Yoshi main, but I can give you a few pointers on improving your gameplay based on that video.

A) Jab more. At close range, jab is win. Sometimes Ftilt (I don't know the speed of Yoshi's moves) but for most characters in general, jab is the best option at point blank range.

B) You fell into patterns where I could call out your next move. Doing the same thing twice, once, is okay (if that makes sense). Doing the same thing twice, all the time, makes you really predictable. For instance, there was a sequence where you Baired and followed up. The situation was reset and what did you do? Baired and followed up again! Much less successful the second time.

C) You almost always returned from the ledge with a ledgehop. Due to Yoshi's super armor, this isn't bad, but mix it up eveery once in a while. It'll be quicker and catch your opponent off guard. Ledge-hops are really telegraphed, especially with Yoshi.

You played, very, very well.

 

[TheYoster]

Awesome advice from people with other mains XD.
More jabbing and less predictable gotcha thanks^^. I guess I didn't use it alot cause I had a mindset to runaway most of the time lol (was too afriad to go up against his over b or jab combo.=p)

 

[Chaco]

Alright, not to be a bair ***** here but MAOR BAIR! That is your best combo starter.

And I love the egg use btw. ^^

 

[Kress]

Change to Ness, that'd freak him out.

Anyways, if you are planning to beat him with yoshi, try not to put him abobe you, he'll just Dair you when you Dthrow him. And try to use Bairs as much as possible wihout being predictable, that means, Bair him when he's open. Also, for ground close ranged combat, Dtilt may be your best option, It has a lot of range and it comes out quickly. Obiously, Ftilts are options to Dtilts too (But I really rather Dtilts over Ftilts)

You have a pretty good use of egg toss :D

that's it :D

 

[Sharky]

actually, I'd like to motion for more eggs (looking at the last few comments that must sound weird lol) preferably ETS'd ones. Don't forget to be smart with them, though, and try to guess when he's gonna make a quick approach and switch things up.

I noticed this in our wifi matches as well: you rely on the ground pound a bit too much. I kinda forsaw something like that first stock in the second match happening, eventually lol. It's just too punishable to be used any more than as a surprise move. On Yoshi's Island it's more acceptable, but definitely not from that high up lol. He had pleeenty of time to react to your move.

 

[Kitamerby]

That's not Azen.

I only counted 40 or so Fsmashes in the first match.

The REAL Azen would use 50+ per match.

 

[Rapid_Assassin]

You.. and everyone else lol..

 

[Ch0zen0ne]

Yoster is ***** incredible w/ Yoshi..

He makes me cry at night


On that note...

-->Yoster ****** m2k in game

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fy2VJYo0mmE&feature=related


WTF HAXX

 

[Chaco]

**** you Chozen...

 

[Scarlet Jile]

Hahaha, saw that coming from MILES.

 

[Deleted member]

Hmm great job. Id like to see a rematch tho =P Seems like he needs moar yoshi experience. Everything that i can think of has been said. MORE EGGS!

 

[Excellence]

I noticed you like to use egg bombs from the ledge a lot which is fine, but it immediately puts you on the defensive because eventually you have to get off the ledge. I would hold off on using that so much until you're in the higher percentages are you're pretty sure you're going to die, because in that situation you're already on the defensive and you want to pass as much damage on to your opponent as possible before the next stock.

 

[Sharky]

Yoster is ***** incredible w/ Yoshi..

He makes me cry at night


On that note...

-->Yoster ****** m2k in game

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fy2VJYo0mmE&feature=related


WTF HAXX

aww, I was hoping for a rick-roll, haven't had one of those in a while =P

 

[slimpyman]

egg lay is 2good4u. use it well

 

[Yoshima]

egg lay is 2good4u. use it well

Yeah, I use it often in my matches to throw of opponents, also it works quite well against snakes not sure about lucario though. But you did much better in the second match, I was rootin' 4 ya... and make more use of yoshi's dsmash being it's his quickest smash AT.

 

[Chaco]

Dsmash isn't an AT.

But use a RAEL, it might switch things up a bit.

 

[Yoshima]

Dsmash isn't an AT.

But use a RAEL, it might switch things up a bit.

Oops... sorry bout that, I thought it ment attack.