Y34HDUD3!!!
Smash Lord
Maybe Brawl replays aren't footage at all but instead the game saves and replicates the button presses the players do? Somehow it must have crapped itself.
Interesting.
Interesting.
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I have stumbled across something VERY serious, everyone needs to read this! VID IS UP
- Thread starter LavisFiend
- Start date
I.B
Smash Lord
What
the
****?
the
****?
Something along the lines of that, I believe. If it's anything like Halo's replays.. they aren't saved as movie files, so you can save a 10 minute long clip on Halo, and it'll be very small as opposed to saving it as a raw video file. It's also interactive, you can pause and zoom around the Halo replays etc.
I assume it's something similiar to this in Brawl, only.. uh.. when you did your jump, something goes wrong on the replay and you jump too far and suicide. Still.. wierd glitch.
7 DAYS.
Dante X
Smash Apprentice
I'm not sure what to say... That's some weird bug.
DUDE THAT LEVEL....
O...M...G...
Lavis! What the crap did you DO man?!
I recreated that level, and fought a red kirby, but I used Marth.
The entire MATCH went awry when I recorded it!
The level looks normal, but something is...wrong...with it I reckon but it completely makes the computer react on it's own.
Red Kirby was kicking my *** all over the place in the artificial replay, but in the actual match I kept tipping him. I didn't tip him ONCE in the artificial one, and he just ANNIHILATED me.
I wish I had a way to record it, but I think you made a possesed level Lavis. I will do further testing.
O...M...G...
Lavis! What the crap did you DO man?!
I recreated that level, and fought a red kirby, but I used Marth.
The entire MATCH went awry when I recorded it!
The level looks normal, but something is...wrong...with it I reckon but it completely makes the computer react on it's own.
Red Kirby was kicking my *** all over the place in the artificial replay, but in the actual match I kept tipping him. I didn't tip him ONCE in the artificial one, and he just ANNIHILATED me.
I wish I had a way to record it, but I think you made a possesed level Lavis. I will do further testing.
Ok, so the save replay option saves the buttons any REAL player chooses. Its basically a series of buttons being replayed but since the Kirby is a CPU it reacts to situations in different ways at different times, you're reactions were the same although the CPU was "cheating" and playing in real time an already recorded button sequence. I hope you understand, and it's a stupid glitch that was forgotten.
Maraphy
Smash Ace
Well it's already been explained on the youtube comments so I won't go into that........
Btw, you have a kewl western accent. x]
Btw, you have a kewl western accent. x]
Okay, that suicide dair you did in the "false" replay? You did a dair at the same moment during the "real" replay. Somewhere in there something gets desynched every other time you play back the replay, and everything just goes downhill from there.
FlareAlchemist
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Mar 4, 2008
- Messages
- 28
Didn't this happen to a pokemon trainer player a while back on the japanese version? Like the pokemon took longer to come out of the pokeball so everything screwed up and characters started suiciding themselves? I thought we came to the conclusion that it's not footage and that it is in fact the game recreating the situation, but something caused it to mess up. (I realize we realized that now, but I remember seeing that video and people explaining it that way)
LavisFiend
Smash Lord
Yea, I agree with you there.
The million dollar question however is what was the culprit that initiated the desynching?
I'd blame the hammer, but in the real replay he didn't even use it. It was a completely independent act. That must mean something desynched it BEFORE the hammer. The only thing I remember was that I began the match with a projectile approach, so maybe the projectile connected when it wasn't supposed to, IE, a broken hitbox maybe?
I dunno, I am so tired I can hardly think straight and the two videos are beginning to blur together. -_-; Worst of all, I am not making any sense.
SkylerOcon
Tiny Dancer
Same thing has happened to me as well. It's just some weird tecnical error that Nintendo will be given hell for.
But at least the actual game doesn't do crap like this. The guy who said that maybe the game recorded button presses and not actual videos may be right.
But at least the actual game doesn't do crap like this. The guy who said that maybe the game recorded button presses and not actual videos may be right.
Samochan
Smash Master
It's the toon link dsmash that hits twice on the rwl match, but only slightly hit the kirby on the other one, resulting kirby do a different action than he was supposed to do.
6footninja
Smash Ace
that IS freaky 0_0.
Im actually stumped, I have no idea how that happened.
Im actually stumped, I have no idea how that happened.
crosser43
Smash Journeyman
if this is another glitch, the game is fuked up
Aryman
Smash Master
oh no, a glitch with the replay feature, how will we go on.
Cobalt
Smash Journeyman
Don't freak out about this guys. As others have said, the game records the inputs, not the actual video being shown.
That's how pretty much every full-game replay feature in any game works. It is much MUCH easier, and takes up much less space, to just have the game record the inputs of the competitors and when they occur, rather than literally record the actual video. Then, when you go to the replay, the game just runs that list of inputs through the engine, recreating the match right before your eyes.
Obviously that's a really basic explanation, and programmers have to account for things involving random chance (e.g. Luigi's missile), but that's the general idea. I'd imagine that the game has specific ways of recording chance-based events to differentiate between the different chances that can occur. For instance
[0:52:45]P1:Right-B-hold
[0:53:16]P1:Right-B-release:misfire
Or something like that, so that the game knows to specifically show a misfire for Luigi's side-b, rather than leave it to chance. Now I'm not claiming this is how Brawl's input-recording system is set up; it's just an example so you get the idea.
However, this presents a problem. If anything occurs to screw up that list of inputs, the replay will be completely different from the actual match. You'll see people doing very very stupid things, running into walls without moving, etc. This has occurred in COMPLETELY DIFFERENT GAMES before, such as the game Guild Wars, an MMO. It has a feature called "observer mode" where you can watch recent competitive matches, and there have been a couple of instances where this EXACT problem has shown up. The replay would be entirely different from the match, even having the other team win. A sort of fail-safe was instituted after the second time all the matches got screwed up, where the game checks the replay's result and compares it to the game's result. If they're different, the game disappears from observer mode.
It's an unfortunate problem that can occur with any game that uses this kind of replay system, so I wouldn't freak out about it. Your game isn't haunted, and it's not defective. It's just that this will happen every once in a while.
That's how pretty much every full-game replay feature in any game works. It is much MUCH easier, and takes up much less space, to just have the game record the inputs of the competitors and when they occur, rather than literally record the actual video. Then, when you go to the replay, the game just runs that list of inputs through the engine, recreating the match right before your eyes.
Obviously that's a really basic explanation, and programmers have to account for things involving random chance (e.g. Luigi's missile), but that's the general idea. I'd imagine that the game has specific ways of recording chance-based events to differentiate between the different chances that can occur. For instance
[0:52:45]P1:Right-B-hold
[0:53:16]P1:Right-B-release:misfire
Or something like that, so that the game knows to specifically show a misfire for Luigi's side-b, rather than leave it to chance. Now I'm not claiming this is how Brawl's input-recording system is set up; it's just an example so you get the idea.
However, this presents a problem. If anything occurs to screw up that list of inputs, the replay will be completely different from the actual match. You'll see people doing very very stupid things, running into walls without moving, etc. This has occurred in COMPLETELY DIFFERENT GAMES before, such as the game Guild Wars, an MMO. It has a feature called "observer mode" where you can watch recent competitive matches, and there have been a couple of instances where this EXACT problem has shown up. The replay would be entirely different from the match, even having the other team win. A sort of fail-safe was instituted after the second time all the matches got screwed up, where the game checks the replay's result and compares it to the game's result. If they're different, the game disappears from observer mode.
It's an unfortunate problem that can occur with any game that uses this kind of replay system, so I wouldn't freak out about it. Your game isn't haunted, and it's not defective. It's just that this will happen every once in a while.
Catfish_Mike
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2008
- Messages
- 70
This happened to me all the time in Super Mario Kart. It was pretty cool.
Cobalt
Smash Journeyman
This I'm not sure of. Obviously the CPU does have inputs that -can- be recorded, since it does perform actions, but whether or not it -needs- to be recorded is up for debate. Assuming the CPU does the exact same thing when put into the exact same situation, then no, it wouldn't need to be recorded, as if the player does the exact same thing (due to the game replaying the player's inputs), the computer will respond in the exact same way.
If, however, it has a factor of randomness put into it (e.g. "Opponent jumps away: 40% run and attack, 60% jump and attack"), then it would need to be recorded as well. As for the original video, I can't remember if the CPU performed the same actions in both videos or not, but that would be an easy way to check, so long as you could recognize the inputs being used.
distr0ia
Smash Apprentice
don't you think the thread title is a bit misleading? you got me all worked up about some kind of mind-blowing revelation that was gonna change the game entirely. it's just an error, man...you're not losing your mind
these things happen. my old 3rd Strike match replays used to get all funky on me when I watched 'em sometimes
these things happen. my old 3rd Strike match replays used to get all funky on me when I watched 'em sometimes
mark.
Smash Journeyman
1 game saves human conf, not cpu
2 in replays, the cpu jsut chooses whatever, making the outcome different
2 in replays, the cpu jsut chooses whatever, making the outcome different
purple-tangerine
Smash Cadet
That's really weird. I agree, this should be looked into (although it seems some people already have) I mean, if replays end up getting used for online tourneys, and it glitches like that, that really sucks...
drag0nfeather
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Sep 1, 2004
- Messages
- 229
I am surprised by how much that they react.
Yeah that's exactly what happened. I bet you will never see a player vs player match glitch like that. Looks like the AI still holds up rather than recording matches move for move. I find it kind of weird that they do that though. They had to know this was going to happen. If you notice, even though your moves were all funked up, the computer opponent was still playing you even with your funked up moves rather than doing its own funked stuff too.
Getting freaked out over a glitch in a game dood? ... I bet you're the type of person who sees the virgin mary in toasted cheese sandwiches too.
And dammit, I thought I was going to see something beneficial not this replay bull**** bug
kiok
Smash Rookie
Welcome to the internets.
Red&Silver
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2007
- Messages
- 247
[Without reading the thread]
Someone else had this problem with a Japanese copy of Brawl. I believe it was the person who was recording matches on the stages sent to Wiis daily. In the video he was Pokemon trainer and he jumped off the stage near the end of the match incredibly idiotically. In the description, he said he doesn't remember doing that.
This is most likely because Replays aren't actual files to access; it's commands for the game to recreate the match you made. It's just a glitch in the system.
Someone else had this problem with a Japanese copy of Brawl. I believe it was the person who was recording matches on the stages sent to Wiis daily. In the video he was Pokemon trainer and he jumped off the stage near the end of the match incredibly idiotically. In the description, he said he doesn't remember doing that.
This is most likely because Replays aren't actual files to access; it's commands for the game to recreate the match you made. It's just a glitch in the system.
UltiMario
Out of Obscurity
Yea, this bug is VERY easy to trigger.
Sometimes is as large as ENTIRELY changing the match.
someitmes its as little as from changing a Star KO into a "hit the screen" KO (happened to me while testing this out XD)
Sometimes is as large as ENTIRELY changing the match.
someitmes its as little as from changing a Star KO into a "hit the screen" KO (happened to me while testing this out XD)
DRaGZ
Smash Champion
Yeah, this would happen with the old Starcraft replays aaaaaall the time, especially if you were playing UMS maps (a big problem for the UMS scene because that's basically what they exclusively played and made).
It's probably just a desynching error. Happens a lot with these kind of input-based replays.
It's probably just a desynching error. Happens a lot with these kind of input-based replays.
LavisFiend
Smash Lord
One thing that still puzzles me is why does it alternate between the two every time?
tafutureboy
Smash Ace
like i said in my comment on youtube...you dair at the smae time in both matches, but in the "haunted" one you go further, thus you die
post the level and i'll try it and get back to you (ign smash world)
post the level and i'll try it and get back to you (ign smash world)
LavisFiend
Smash Lord
It is up on the stage browser here. It is called Faceoff.
fortunArcanum
Smash Cadet
You have a sexy voice...
That aside, it is actually quite puzzling. These theories are one thing but, as you say, why would it alternate between the two when you watch the replay? Shouldn't it just watch one, whether it is the real or the impostor? At least this is only a minor glitch, I suppose. It is certainly annoying but the important thing is that it isn't something to ruin the game.
That aside, it is actually quite puzzling. These theories are one thing but, as you say, why would it alternate between the two when you watch the replay? Shouldn't it just watch one, whether it is the real or the impostor? At least this is only a minor glitch, I suppose. It is certainly annoying but the important thing is that it isn't something to ruin the game.
MyRevenge.
Smash Journeyman
Does it happen with any other replays?
Have you saved any other replays with that same level? And does the same thing happen on those replays?
I think it's mainly because it's a custom made level...
But not really sure...
Have you saved any other replays with that same level? And does the same thing happen on those replays?
I think it's mainly because it's a custom made level...
But not really sure...
popsofctown
Smash Champion
i have an explanation for the alternation.
The wii wants to compact your match to be as little data as possible. So what it does is remember your input, second for second. It could memorize the computer's input second for second too. But it says hey, i have a copy of a level 3 kirby right here. Instead of remembering what it did, i can just recreate what the kirby would have done. This saves room. no kirby input.
So why does it alternate? The kirby AI doesn't actually do the same thing every single time. At some point during the recreation of what kirby should do, a random variable gets thrown in. At some point, it gets stuck between two seemingly good options, or something, and it flips a coin to decide its next input.
If it picks the input it did against you the first time, you get the real normal replay, because your recorded input matches up well against the kirby's input and you kill it.
If it picks the input it didn't do the first time, that it just does sometimes, then it throws the rest of the match off for you. Your moves don't coincide right. you die.
The wii wants to compact your match to be as little data as possible. So what it does is remember your input, second for second. It could memorize the computer's input second for second too. But it says hey, i have a copy of a level 3 kirby right here. Instead of remembering what it did, i can just recreate what the kirby would have done. This saves room. no kirby input.
So why does it alternate? The kirby AI doesn't actually do the same thing every single time. At some point during the recreation of what kirby should do, a random variable gets thrown in. At some point, it gets stuck between two seemingly good options, or something, and it flips a coin to decide its next input.
If it picks the input it did against you the first time, you get the real normal replay, because your recorded input matches up well against the kirby's input and you kill it.
If it picks the input it didn't do the first time, that it just does sometimes, then it throws the rest of the match off for you. Your moves don't coincide right. you die.
videogamefan
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Mar 24, 2008
- Messages
- 1
*Made an account just to post in this topic*
Watched the video. To me, it seems like when you used dsmash, the second hit didn't send Kirby as far as it should have, so he got to you faster while you were still charging your bow and whacked you with the hammer. Everyone else explained what happened after the hammer.
Just my observation. I could be wrong >_>
Watched the video. To me, it seems like when you used dsmash, the second hit didn't send Kirby as far as it should have, so he got to you faster while you were still charging your bow and whacked you with the hammer. Everyone else explained what happened after the hammer.
Just my observation. I could be wrong >_>