I have a theory about Char.rels

[hero1771]

ok basically, do you know how stages have .rels? and how recently we've been using them to port them to other stages? Well, characters have that too.

So, about a month ago, i was editing some rels when it hit me. Couldn't this be possible on characters? i was reading libertyernie's moudle guide (located here)

and i went and realized there was some character stuff as well.

http://forums.kc-mm.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=h429158tlq54erufdkhfh519p1&topic=25.0
(im not 100% sure which is the right one, but i think Dantrion's is more appropriate)
Dantrion's:

Mario - 00
Donkey Kong - 01
Link - 02
Samus - 03
Yoshi - 05
Kirby - 06
Fox - 07
Pikachu - 08
Luigi - 09
Captain Falcon - 0A
Ness - 0B
Bowser - 0C
Peach - 0D
Zelda - 0E
Sheik - 0F
Ice Climbers - 10
Marth - 11
Mr. Game & Watch 12
Falco - 13
Ganondorf - 14
Wario - 15
Meta Knight - 16
Pit - 17
Zero Suit Samus - 04
Olimar - 18
Lucas - 19
Diddy Kong - 1A
Pokémon Trainer - 1B
Charizard - 1C
Squirtle - 1D
Ivysaur - 1E
King Dedede - 1F
Lucario - 20
Ike - 21
R.O.B - 22
Jigglypuff - 23
Toon Link - 24
Wolf - 25
Snake - 26
Sonic - 27
Random - 29The Random value can be

so, like if you saw the moudle wiki page, it says it has a pattern, right?
well, with a hex editor, i went in lucas's and ike's and found a same code with both. the pattern goes like 38 A5 00 00 3C CO 00 00.

i know i cant crack the code alone
(i mean look at the friggin' scroll bar <_<

soo, i wanted this to be public soo maybe we could crack this code together. If we succeed, we did something awesome (i mean, we could replace OLIMAR with MEWTWO :O )

 

[Dantarion]

You are right and wrong.

Its kinda that simple, and it isn't.ks
PW and I talked about it.

tbh, no one knows about .rels but him

 

[hero1771]

soo.. ur saying this is entirly possible, but it is different?

but that is why we must work T.O.G.E.T.H.E.R. to do this.

right now, since i have that resource on the moudle page, i will stalk it out and try to replace the number 38 A5 etc...
though it might be for a lost cause, we gotta start somewhere u know?

 

[pokelover980]

(i mean, we could replace OLIMAR with MEWTWO :O )

Why does everyone want to replace Olimar :U


Anyways, like Dant said, Phantom Wings is the only one with a lot of knowledge about character .rel files. He made a thread earlier this year about his discoveries and how he sorta managed to make a working clone engine type thing, but it was really glitchy and didn't work very well. He also created a .rel viewer thing so you could view certain parts of a character .rel or something.

 

[hero1771]

Why does everyone want to replace Olimar :U


Anyways, like Dant said, Phantom Wings is the only one with a lot of knowledge about character .rel files. He made a thread earlier this year about his discoveries and how he sorta managed to make a working clone engine type thing, but it was really glitchy and didn't work very well. He also created a .rel viewer thing so you could view certain parts of a character .rel or something.

i keep on pressuring, because, even though phatom wings couldn't get it, he wa sjust 1 person. if we have a whole community supporting us, then... well...
and we are not looking for a clone engine.
we are looking for a .rel to replace other characters, like stages.

 

[AMKalmar]

Yes... just "stalk it out." Replace random header values. Surely this will not be a lost cause.

 

[ds22]

*Awaits Phantom Wing's sudden appearance*

If you use Phantom Wing's .rel viewer on stage .rel's, you'll see that they all have the same amount of constructors while character .rel's differ from each other in amount (just saying).

 

[hero1771]

Yes... just "stalk it out." Replace random header values. Surely this will not be a lost cause.

no.
im falling back on the moudle stuff from the moudle page, finding that specific byte pattern. i mean, the stage pattern couldn't be so different from the stage pattern right? i understand that stages are totally different that characters, but it is worth a shot.

@ds22 i know what constructers are, they are the stuff... to rename stuff? im sorry i can't give a good explination but i know what they are.

 

[[TSON]]

It is not that easy because, in layman's terms, each rel file contains more than one line of character specific data, and almost the whole file can vary between two characters. Constructors are the core parts of the data. Having more or less of them causes character porting to be quite the nuisance, and very subjective. Very few characters are interchangeable without large-scale editing of the module.

If PW doesn't come back, this won't happen unless we get another mastermind with lots of time on his hands to look into it.

 

[SqLeon]

Why does everyone want to replace Olimar :U


Anyways, like Dant said, Phantom Wings is the only one with a lot of knowledge about character .rel files. He made a thread earlier this year about his discoveries and how he sorta managed to make a working clone engine type thing, but it was really glitchy and didn't work very well. He also created a .rel viewer thing so you could view certain parts of a character .rel or something.

is there a place to dl his rel viewer?

 

[Fen__]

Not to discourage looking into this, but PW already had a lot done, and even he was having trouble. The last time I saw a progress report of his character-swapping code, it was still very buggy. This was after several months of working on it (although I don't know how frequently). By all means, pursue it, but don't underestimate the task. If anything gets done with this, it's going to take a long time.

 

[highfive]

soo.. ur saying this is entirly possible, but it is different?

but that is why we must work T.O.G.E.T.H.E.R. to do this.

right now, since i have that resource on the moudle page, i will stalk it out and try to replace the number 38 A5 etc...
though it might be for a lost cause, we gotta start somewhere u know?

I imagine if you get enough people you can do this in a quarter of the time if you'd do it alone.

Why does everyone want to replace Olimar :U

Olimar sucks.
/truth

Not to discourage looking into this, but PW already had a lot done, and even he was having trouble. The last time I saw a progress report of his character-swapping code, it was still very buggy. This was after several months of working on it (although I don't know how frequently). By all means, pursue it, but don't underestimate the task. If anything gets done with this, it's going to take a long time.

Shut up Fen and believe.

 

[pokelover980]

Olimar sucks.
/truth

Do I have to get into the whole "it depends on the player and how much they've practiced with x character" argument again :U

 

[Dantarion]

Honestly, unless you know ASM, you can't do this.

 

[SqLeon]

Honestly, unless you know ASM, you can't do this.

ASM?


10char

 

[Nerd With An Afro]

ASM?


10char

The assembly coding. its how the game actually inputs data... or assembles it is a better way.

Edit: The chance of PW coming back are ridiculously low, and the chances of another epic mastermind showing up is even lower. lets give this a shot ourselves, we have the tools and... not the knowledge, but the one thing i have learned from this community is that the instant someone say it isn't going to happen, it happens.

Music and Sound effects should end it right there, so lets put all the effort we can into this.

Edit 2: "We're all in this together" ~ The Sign Painter

 

[[TSON]]

"the one thing i have learned from this community is that the instant someone say it isn't going to happen, it happens."

*points to wi-win*

 

[Bero]

Kryal had already started analyzing it before he retired.
If you look at BrawlLib.SSBBTypes.RELHeader, you can know it.

 

[shanus]

its entirely ASM, so unless you feel like fully deciphering ASM coding to the average user with a program allowing for easy adjustment, I doubt it'll be happening any time soon

 

[JediKnightTemplar]

its entirely ASM, so unless you feel like fully deciphering ASM coding to the average user with a program allowing for easy adjustment, I doubt it'll be happening any time soon

So pretty much until PW, Kryal, or someone else with extensive knowledge of Brawl's engine, we're screwed. (unless someone happens to have access to their knowledge, which they really should have released to allow others to easily continue their work)

 

[hero1771]

this is ridiculous. some people wait PW like christians wait for Jesus
(not as an inuslt) which probably wont be in our lifetime.
im sick of people waiting for others, i know for a fact that if we all work together, we can do this. i dont care if i spend my summer studying ASM, i will do this. this is not for fame, but this is for all the charaters that shouldve been in brawl.

 

[Bero]

Yes, Phantom Wings had learned ASM once probably.(Or he has known it since he was born?)

But, hero1771, it is not easy to understand .rel files.
Understanding each asm mnemonic is easy but it is not easy to understand how the game works reading asm mnemonics.

Spoiler

I want to learn how to understand asm codes too

 

[Nerd With An Afro]

@Bero and Hero1771
Do either of you guys even have a USBgecko? because without one of them, understanding ASM may be impossible More complicated then it needs to be...

Edit: What the heck was i thinking when i said impossible...

 

[hero1771]

@Bero and Hero1771
Do either of you guys even have a USBgecko? because without one of them, understanding ASM may be impossible More complicated then it needs to be...

Edit: What the heck was i thinking when i said impossible...

but if PW doesnt come back, were screwed
that is why we must do this.
Just an FYi for everyone, BigSharkZ had a basic idea like this too.

if we get a bunch of good hackers we could never match PW's skill

 

[pokelover980]

@Bero and Hero1771
Do either of you guys even have a USBgecko? because without one of them, understanding ASM may be impossible More complicated then it needs to be...

Edit: What the heck was i thinking when i said impossible...

I believe I read somewhere that Bero said he has a USBGecko.

 

[hero1771]

Bero's posted in this thread, right?

maybe he could help...
but i know he probably doen't have the time to completely study ASM.

 

[Nerd With An Afro]

if we get a bunch of good hackers we could never match PW's skill

No, we just need people to believe that we can do this.

Spoiler

But it would seem that everyone with a red tinted name doesn't believe

I believe I read somewhere that Bero said he has a USBGecko.

I remember a guide somewhere on the WiiRD forums that helped me understand ASM... but i cannot find it anymore.

EDIT: http://wiird.l0nk.org/forum/index.php/topic,3473.0.html
@Hero1771
Lets just hope he is willing to help

 

[hero1771]

No, we just need people to believe that we can do this.

Spoiler

But it would seem that everyone with a red tinted name doesn't believe

I remember a guide somewhere on the WiiRD forums that helped me understand ASM... but i cannot find it anymore.

lulz.

its true... .

well, right now=no work on this. i have my hex editor on my usb stick, which is at a friends house.

 

[Nerd With An Afro]

lulz.

its true... .

well, right now=no work on this. i have my hex editor on my usb stick, which is at a friends house.

you've made progress at least, you have a few allies now and people to prove wrong.

P.S.
I semi understand ASM. I know how to use it to find and edit the information, but i could never make a

Spoiler

working

code. a better word may be barely, but its something.

 

[Bero]

@Nerd With An Afro
I have USB Gecko of course.
I have ported many codes using it.(File Patch Code, etc)

 

[Nerd With An Afro]

@Nerd With An Afro
I have USB Gecko of course.
I have ported many codes using it.(File Patch Code, etc)

Umm... lol, didn't see that coming. only reason i didn't is because when i first saw you in this community, it was on brawl stats, then the custom file organizer...

 

[Bero]

I have been talking with Japanese since one and six months ago.
But I joined this community in January.
It is natural that you haven't seen me before then.

 

[Fen__]

Before any of you can understand ASM, you're going to have to understand the Wii's hardware. If you're truly serious about this and don't actually already have any background in hardware/programming, this will probably take you months of on-and-off work in your free time to get a decent grasp on things.

Also, you keep saying "if PW doesn't come back, we're screwed!". What way do you think we're "screwed" in exactly? The only thing this will allow us to do is move around what slots characters take up. It'd be nice to have, but it's not exactly something hugely helpful.

 

[Camonsters]

Before any of you can understand ASM, you're going to have to understand the Wii's hardware. If you're truly serious about this and don't actually already have any background in hardware/programming, this will probably take you months of on-and-off work in your free time to get a decent grasp on things.

Also, you keep saying "if PW doesn't come back, we're screwed!". What way do you think we're "screwed" in exactly? The only thing this will allow us to do is move around what slots characters take up. It'd be nice to have, but it's not exactly something hugely helpful.

Thats not true its very helpful. Say someones favourite character gets replaced but they want that character to. This would help them do that or if two characters are on the same person then what are you suppose to do. PW's engine would be better to have but we have to be realistic. He's not just going to come back and have it working. This is the second best thing to it so we might as well try it.

 

[Bero]

Yes, Camonsters is right.
It is worthy to try it ourselves. Then, we can understand if it is possible without PW....

 

[[TSON]]

He's not just going to come back and have it working.

IF (big if) he does come back he will either have it working or be very close to having it working. That's the kind of person he is. He usually does not post on Smashboards unless he is helping or telling us what he is working on.

 

[dirtboy345]

it's like pw is god and when he leaves we mostly look like a bunch of idiots lol, but how exactly does the stage clone engine work and why can you only get 9 extra slots? because after phantom wings released that is when we messed around with rel's to replace old stages, and if it is around the same area then even a few more slots would be very helpful. In the meantime i will be doing some dance rituals and other things hoping for his return

 

[hero1771]

ill be out for a few day on vacation, soo....

if we really are going to start this, im going to make a new thread elsewhere. it will be to at least try to develop this. firstly, i want to understand ASM, iin a thread; anywhere; or try to at least find someone with a Gecko Usb other than Bero.

 

[dirtboy345]

ok now we have phantom wings progress, me myself have no clue what to do with it but now i think that there will be hope in this project

 

[Nerd With An Afro]

ok now we have phantom wings progress, me myself have no clue what to do with it but now i think that there will be hope in this project

Im sorry... but the chance of PW returning was already extremely low... but the fact that he gave us exactly what we needed... is just plain ironic... at least in my direction...