I finally have tournament vids, please give my Marth advice.

[Jx31]

Well, I FINALLY have tournament vids of my Marth from two different events. Please tell me what you think I could be doing more with my Marth especially in the vids against Falco. I consider Falco one of my weakest match-ups at the moment (I lost to a Falco in tournament the last four events I attended)

Down South Juking vids @ Waba Game:

Jx31(Marth) vs Soft ( Falcon) round 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQ5TI_27lx0&feature=channel_page note: The title says ??? vs ??? 10 and it's marked as a friendly but this is one of my tournament matches.

I went Ganon round two of this set, if you want to watch it though it's ??? vs ??? 9

Jx31(Marth) vs DashDanceDan(Bowser) r1- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32iOlWmAv74&feature=channel_page

Jx31(Marth) vs DashDanceDan(Bowser) r2- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_zhT217Fz8&feature=related

Jx31(Marth) vs TRC(Young Link) r1- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTwkH8aaTo0&feature=channel_page

I have one more set from this tournament that has yet to be uploaded

Panhandle BrawlFest Melee tournament vids @ FSU

Ballistics(Falco) vs Jx31( Marth) r1- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sJ9XQJ3w4M&feature=channel_page

Ballistics (Falco) vs Jx31 (Marth) r2- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lf_C2jwkBaU&feature=related

For anyone who is curious Down South Juking is the most recent tournament out of the two.

I'm looking forward to the advice

 

[Miggz]

Ok so I watched your matches against the Falco. The first thing I noticed was the amount of trouble those lasers gave you. You should learn to wavedash out of shield consecutively. Its a really safe approach against a laser happy Falco. So you can approach with a wavedash, shield, wave dash out of shield and repeat. That is one of the handful of approaches. You also need to learn to react quicker. Falco's froward smash hit your shield and you remained in your shield. I'm assuming you was afraid of getting shined. Well fear not, not even Falco or Fox can shine right after forward smash. Its only after aerials that you should be careful of the shine.

Learn your percents too. This will help you understand when its best to use attacks such as up tilt and whatnot.

Your DI was another thing. You shouldn't have gotten hit by 3-4 up tilts from Falco ina row. Not to mention Marth is floaty. Remember to hold away from your foe when you are getting juggled like that. I did notice that when you were on your second stock on YS you started to pay more attention and react better/faster. You have to keep that mindset through the whole game. But fear not, these are things that will become second nature to you the more you play. Keep up the good work.

 

[Jx31]

Ok so I watched your matches against the Falco. The first thing I noticed was the amount of trouble those lasers gave you. You should learn to wavedash out of shield consecutively. Its a really safe approach against a laser happy Falco. So you can approach with a wavedash, shield, wave dash out of shield and repeat. That is one of the handful of approaches. You also need to learn to react quicker. Falco's froward smash hit your shield and you remained in your shield. I'm assuming you was afraid of getting shined. Well fear not, not even Falco or Fox can shine right after forward smash. Its only after aerials that you should be careful of the shine.

Learn your percents too. This will help you understand when its best to use attacks such as up tilt and whatnot.

Your DI was another thing. You shouldn't have gotten hit by 3-4 up tilts from Falco ina row. Not to mention Marth is floaty. Remember to hold away from your foe when you are getting juggled like that. I did notice that when you were on your second stock on YS you started to pay more attention and react better/faster. You have to keep that mindset through the whole game. But fear not, these are things that will become second nature to you the more you play. Keep up the good work.

I'm not sure why I never try the wavedash out of shield approach when I'm playing Falcos, maybe I had a bad experience in the past with it that I don't recall or something. I'll start using it more when I play against Falcos since lord knows I need more ways around the evil red lasers.


And yeah, you're right about me not really getting my head into the game 'till my second stock on Yoshi's. I felt like a piece of meat being thrown into a shark tank during the first match. Not being mentally prepared for a match or taking too long to compose myself is a problem I sadly still struggle with. Do you have a way to prepare yourself mentally for a match?

 

[Miggz]

That's a good question. All I do is make sure I play a little melee for at least 30 minutes by myself before playing another person. For me, it shreds any negative thought I may have at the time such as "I'm not warmed up enough yet." So in a nutshell, a brief solo warm helps me. I also try not to freak out when about to play someone new. Just because I don't know what they are capable of shouldn't make it ok to hold back or not be playing your best. You also have to keep in mind (although its hard) that you have a mystery factor/advantage too from your foe's POV.

Another big thing is knowing your matches ups. Let's take Marth. As a Marth player its your duty to learn all the match ups and understand how you can battle/punish all the other characters *even marth himself* and how they punish you. I find that knowing basic knowledge can help reduce anxiety quite a bit. Let's say your foe picks Peach. You should consider the fact that Marth can forward throw Peach 2-3 times to forward smash at 0%. Stuff like that. Ok so you have no clue how the Peach will fight but if you did your homework you'll understand what to expect and how the Peach plans to take you down (i.e. turnip spam, float cancel aerials ect.).

So yeah everyone has their ways of relaxing themselves. The good thing about losing is that it reminds me that I am not perfect, and that there is room for improvement. I hope I made sense. =P

 

[Heart Break Kid]

Your going to NY this week right? play me and you'll be ****** Falcos of Eggms calibur in no time. lol haha...I think im pretty good vs Falco though so I might be able to help.

Well I watched the first Falco match and you seemed a bit ovverwhelmed by Falco. Like on Fd. Like Miggz said just keep your composure. I forget where but I know you missed an early sheild grab when Falco fsmashed your sheild. That mad important especially against spacies. And on FD that mightve led to his stock lol who knows. DI could use some wrk but thats just going to come with practice and knowing what combos Marth gets caught in against Falco. Like 4 utilts into upsmash lol

Def have to know how to deal with Falco's lasers. Whether it be wavedash OOS(you can even wavedash OOS while they are applying pressure vs your sheild) or powersheilding. Powersheild to grab is ****. Also if im not feeling confident in PS ill usually try to manuever through them with full jumps into side b's and double jump. But be careful to not get directly above him caught with no jump. When close I like to fair oOOS bcuz that has good reach. I actually dnt like FD vs Falco because the insane amount of room he has to shoot lasers.

On a stage like Yoshis I find it pretty easy to get in Falco's face and apply some pressure. He doesnt have a ton of room run and camp...and when I do get in close I find that alot of them like to roll or spotdodge. I guess you could call it a patient agressive game? I like finding habits when they're put in a defensive position I dunno lol.

Try to get a little closer hen edgeuarding too. I noticed in the 2nd match you were pretty far back while charging your neutral B.

If you do come up to Ny though youll get tons better I promise. Your gna be ****** this ballistics guy easy haha no offense to him

Edit- http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=203781 If you go down to section 3 that might help you a bit in dealin with Falco's lasers

 

[Binx]

vs Bowser you are too aggressive even though you won, but come on it's bowser. Basically its important to realize that Bowser CANNOT approach, jump or move without being punished if you are within a certain range, what I like to do is just go forward a bit and space fairs in the same spot or retreating until the bowser feels pressured and does ANYTHING and then I punish that, because he has no safe moves.

vs Falco just refine your combos a bit more, forward throw regrab at 0 percent then uthrow chaingrab to utilt fsmash, also remember that a lot of falcos will expect the forward smash so you can put in another uair there sometimes and they won't DI it properly, sometimes even 2 of them. When falco is off the edge you need to very quickly evaluate whether you have time to hit him, if you have any doubts just stand back a tiny by out of short hip drill range and wait for him to get off the ledge, most falcos will double laser, you can easily shield this and start fighting it out, if they forward b try and spot dodge and throw them back off the ledge at higher percents, or towards the ledge at lower percents into a m2k tech chase (dthrow dtilt turn regrab if they teched behind you) Pick your battles vs lasers, I like to leap into a counter every once in a while, or if you can try and powershield them. Be careful with your spacing vs Falco while he is lasering you don't want to be in range of a follow up, its much more dangerous than the 1 or 2% the lasers do so don't get caught up too much in them, they really aren't that bad just annoying, over the course of a whole match its unlikely they will do more than 15-25% in a stock, about the same as a single drill shine bair combo would do.

 

[Jx31]

That's a good question. All I do is make sure I play a little melee for at least 30 minutes by myself before playing another person. For me, it shreds any negative thought I may have at the time such as "I'm not warmed up enough yet." So in a nutshell, a brief solo warm helps me. I also try not to freak out when about to play someone new. Just because I don't know what they are capable of shouldn't make it ok to hold back or not be playing your best. You also have to keep in mind (although its hard) that you have a mystery factor/advantage too from your foe's POV.

Another big thing is knowing your matches ups. Let's take Marth. As a Marth player its your duty to learn all the match ups and understand how you can battle/punish all the other characters *even marth himself* and how they punish you. I find that knowing basic knowledge can help reduce anxiety quite a bit. Let's say your foe picks Peach. You should consider the fact that Marth can forward throw Peach 2-3 times to forward smash at 0%. Stuff like that. Ok so you have no clue how the Peach will fight but if you did your homework you'll understand what to expect and how the Peach plans to take you down (i.e. turnip spam, float cancel aerials ect.).

So yeah everyone has their ways of relaxing themselves. The good thing about losing is that it reminds me that I am not perfect, and that there is room for improvement. I hope I made sense. =P

Actually you made perfect sense with this post. Thinking back on the Tallahassee tournament whenever I wasn't playing a tournament match I was either chatting or watching Melee matches since most of the tvs had Brawl set up on them. It took me around thirty seconds to get focused and warmed up on average except for the match against Ballistics due to the laser barrage >.<. This wasn't really a problem at the Waba tournament due to it being a Melee only tournament. If I wasn't playing a tournament match I was playing friendlies.

I do need to find my way to relax when I'm in situations such as the Tallahassee tournament though, the thirty seconds it takes for me prepare when I haven't played in a bit could decide the game right there.

Your going to NY this week right? play me and you'll be ****** Falcos of Eggms calibur in no time. lol haha...I think im pretty good vs Falco though so I might be able to help.

Well I watched the first Falco match and you seemed a bit ovverwhelmed by Falco. Like on Fd. Like Miggz said just keep your composure. I forget where but I know you missed an early sheild grab when Falco fsmashed your sheild. That mad important especially against spacies. And on FD that mightve led to his stock lol who knows. DI could use some wrk but thats just going to come with practice and knowing what combos Marth gets caught in against Falco. Like 4 utilts into upsmash lol

Def have to know how to deal with Falco's lasers. Whether it be wavedash OOS(you can even wavedash OOS while they are applying pressure vs your sheild) or powersheilding. Powersheild to grab is ****. Also if im not feeling confident in PS ill usually try to manuever through them with full jumps into side b's and double jump. But be careful to not get directly above him caught with no jump. When close I like to fair oOOS bcuz that has good reach. I actually dnt like FD vs Falco because the insane amount of room he has to shoot lasers.

On a stage like Yoshis I find it pretty easy to get in Falco's face and apply some pressure. He doesnt have a ton of room run and camp...and when I do get in close I find that alot of them like to roll or spotdodge. I guess you could call it a patient agressive game? I like finding habits when they're put in a defensive position I dunno lol.

Try to get a little closer hen edgeuarding too. I noticed in the 2nd match you were pretty far back while charging your neutral B.

If you do come up to Ny though youll get tons better I promise. Your gna be ****** this ballistics guy easy haha no offense to him

Edit- http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=203781 If you go down to section 3 that might help you a bit in dealin with Falco's lasers

Yeah, I suddenly found out that I had a ride for the Revival of Melee tournament yesterday so I'm REALLY pumped right now!

Power shielding is also something I used to practice often against Falco but I just stopped for some reason . I have a two days before I leave so I'll practice that between now and the tournament. I also think Shiz is being housed at the same place Georgia is staying at so I will more than likely get more Falco than I can stand before the tournament XD


Mogwai's guide was a pretty good read, it's a interesting way to think of Falco's laser spacing. Thanks for the link!

I hope that I get a chance to play you this weekend, thanks for the advice and see you then.

vs Bowser you are too aggressive even though you won, but come on it's bowser. Basically its important to realize that Bowser CANNOT approach, jump or move without being punished if you are within a certain range, what I like to do is just go forward a bit and space fairs in the same spot or retreating until the bowser feels pressured and does ANYTHING and then I punish that, because he has no safe moves.

vs Falco just refine your combos a bit more, forward throw regrab at 0 percent then uthrow chaingrab to utilt fsmash, also remember that a lot of falcos will expect the forward smash so you can put in another uair there sometimes and they won't DI it properly, sometimes even 2 of them. When falco is off the edge you need to very quickly evaluate whether you have time to hit him, if you have any doubts just stand back a tiny by out of short hip drill range and wait for him to get off the ledge, most falcos will double laser, you can easily shield this and start fighting it out, if they forward b try and spot dodge and throw them back off the ledge at higher percents, or towards the ledge at lower percents into a m2k tech chase (dthrow dtilt turn regrab if they teched behind you) Pick your battles vs lasers, I like to leap into a counter every once in a while, or if you can try and powershield them. Be careful with your spacing vs Falco while he is lasering you don't want to be in range of a follow up, its much more dangerous than the 1 or 2% the lasers do so don't get caught up too much in them, they really aren't that bad just annoying, over the course of a whole match its unlikely they will do more than 15-25% in a stock, about the same as a single drill shine bair combo would do.

Haha, thanks for the Bowser advice, I almost freaked out when Dashdancedan selected Bowser o_O. I played other people's Bowsers when they were screwing around in friendlies but never a Bowser main so it was a new experience which is always good.

The Falco advice is always apperciated, hopefully I'll have something to show from it after/from the Revival of Melee tournament!

 

[Miggz]

Hey good luck bro. All the best.

 

[CDCP]

one thing i noticed, you seem to be rather desperate to hit the other guy.
swinging out those nairs and ftilts, when they werent really near you, and getting punished for it.

 

[Tyson651]

k that ??? vs ??? 10 video,

0:14, that wavedash back was really useless. like, ur not tricking him or anything, hes recovering. all u did was blow ur chance of an easy stock lead.

0:30, u should have ledgehopped dair, u need to practice those.

1:35, and some earlier ones, ur dtilt is way too slow. needs to come out faster.

1:57, dtilt should have came out. it always comes out, out of a fthrow or dthrow off the ledge or close to it.

2:00, dont approach with neutralB, especially against falcon lol

2:16, could have grabbed after that dair


and also some other tips, i notice that u watch ur own character too much. u should be watching ur opponent, not ur self.

another thing is, u use fairs too much, try mixing it up, dont be afraid to use bair if they're behind u rather than a DI back fair.

u need to practice ur grabs more, butterfingers!

 

[Jx31]

Good lord, I got a pool with two good Shieks(KirbyKaze and TecZero) at Revival of Melee. Well...I broke my Falco losing curse but not in the way that I imagined >.>.

And man, I didn't see you there at all HBK, I'm sad that we didn't get to play any matches .

I'm sleepy right now so I'll respond to your post later Tyson .

 

[Heart Break Kid]

And man, I didn't see you there at all HBK, I'm sad that we didn't get to play any matches .

QUOTE]

Yea I didnt get to play many people there and i couldnt even make it for the 2nd day.
But my Marth got ***** by Shiz in tournament...I used to think Falco was a terrible character also. Lmao he changed my mind asap

 

[Jx31]

I added a new match in the Down South juking portion of my first post vs TRC(Young Link) so bash my Marth away. Round one is the only match uploaded so far.

I feel that in this match I was WAY too aggressive after gaining the stock advantage which almost lead to my downfall. I should've just made him come to me if I could. Does anyone else agree with that?

@Tyson651-You mentioned that I watched my character too much, I don't quite understand what you mean. What did I do in particular that gave you this impression?

@HBK-Lol, I think playing Shiz only increased my fear of Falcos XD.

 

[trinityWOLF]

hey man u played good...no lie... but ummm...ionno if my advice would help but im sure u heard this...i saw ur in falco matches u were being laser pressured and getting hit consecutively...for one thing...u need to DI better...plenty of times u couldve DI away from some combos like those tilts...and u shouldnt have died so easily with a couple of those F-smashes. another thing is u wunna...like...think more strategically...like when u were getting pressured on FD..u wunna think how can i get pass his lasers? should i camp and wait for him to come to meeh? and another thing is u need to learn how to gimp against falco..he has a weak recovery...a good example for gimping is counter his up-B then go out and fair him away and recover back to the edge with ur up-B. other times u didnt need to run around the stage while falco was coming back u shouldve planned wut to do next as ur next move and how to get that falco in that situation

my next advice is specifically for against c. falcon...do not try to combo him..u will get *****...falcon is sexy for a reason and its those combo's. for one thing...on stage u wunna use ur grabs a lot...tech grabs help a lot...i mean in ur match against soft u did good u have great tech skill but there r certain things u need to do with certain characters of course. but against c. falcon...u dont wunna be on the stage while he's moving..for one thing..once u get grabbed...u get *****...because his combos r basically rapesauce ALL day. another thing is...u have the advantage over a majority of characters when theyre out of the stage(specifically meaning marth) ...most of the match against soft it looked like u tried to combo him...u rilly shouldve thought of ways to push him or draw him towards the edge and **** him there since falcon's recovery is pretty easy to read....i mean melee is a thinking game of where to put ur opponents in the situation where u wunt them to be...in falcon's case..u wunt him of the edge trying to recover..and that goes for any character..other then that...u got ur tech skills down...just DI better and think where u wunna put ur opponents at

Happy gaming...and enjoy the game

 

[Jx31]

hey man u played good...no lie... but ummm...ionno if my advice would help but im sure u heard this...i saw ur in falco matches u were being laser pressured and getting hit consecutively...for one thing...u need to DI better...plenty of times u couldve DI away from some combos like those tilts...and u shouldnt have died so easily with a couple of those F-smashes. another thing is u wunna...like...think more strategically...like when u were getting pressured on FD..u wunna think how can i get pass his lasers? should i camp and wait for him to come to meeh? and another thing is u need to learn how to gimp against falco..he has a weak recovery...a good example for gimping is counter his up-B then go out and fair him away and recover back to the edge with ur up-B. other times u didnt need to run around the stage while falco was coming back u shouldve planned wut to do next as ur next move and how to get that falco in that situation

my next advice is specifically for against c. falcon...do not try to combo him..u will get *****...falcon is sexy for a reason and its those combo's. for one thing...on stage u wunna use ur grabs a lot...tech grabs help a lot...i mean in ur match against soft u did good u have great tech skill but there r certain things u need to do with certain characters of course. but against c. falcon...u dont wunna be on the stage while he's moving..for one thing..once u get grabbed...u get *****...because his combos r basically rapesauce ALL day. another thing is...u have the advantage over a majority of characters when theyre out of the stage(specifically meaning marth) ...most of the match against soft it looked like u tried to combo him...u rilly shouldve thought of ways to push him or draw him towards the edge and **** him there since falcon's recovery is pretty easy to read....i mean melee is a thinking game of where to put ur opponents in the situation where u wunt them to be...in falcon's case..u wunt him of the edge trying to recover..and that goes for any character..other then that...u got ur tech skills down...just DI better and think where u wunna put ur opponents at

Happy gaming...and enjoy the game

No problem man, any advice is welcomed and yours contained a LOT of truth in my eyes.

 

[trinityWOLF]

hey np bro...melee ***** and its great for ppl to learn more and appreciate this game. and i knoe every player agree's with meeh when we say melee *****