I finally found a character I want to main...but he's not competitively viable?

[Anomilus]

Doc advice right here: Do NOT fear the ledge.

1 - Learn to recover. Mash Down B to regain height, use your 2nd jump appropriately, try not to forget he has a wall jump. You'd be surprised at how low he can go and still grab the ledge with Up B. Don't push it though.

2 - Learn to edgeguard. Somebody said don't go off-stage with Doc? THROW THAT ADVICE TO THE GROUND!! Doc is great at edgeguarding, rivaling even Mario. BAir, NAir, Down B, Sheet, Up B, and of course pills. Learn to use all these tools to gimp.

If you don't learn to recover, you'll die way more often than necessary. If you don't take the edgeguard initiative, you mind as well use Mario.


Personally I prefer Doc over Mario. The different movement makes the difference for me. Honestly if you also prefer Doc's movements to Mario's, that's all the reason you need to stick with him. If you don't care either way, odds are you may be better off with Mario. But I for one ain't bothered by Doc's slower mobility. He does good damage with less hits, he has a good projectile, and it's fun using DAir and Down B and various other attacks to plow through my opponent.

 

[Teshie U]

Trela just won a tournament with Doctor Mario.

 

[15 [イチゴ]]

I don't know if anyone else has posted this advice, but I don't care to read through the mountains of text in this thread.

Your main problem is not maining Doctor Mario. Your problem is the fact that you haven't already gone to tournaments. If you want to learn how to play the game better you should be going to something local. Or playing a bunch online. Play against real people and level up your game.

http://smashboards.com/events/weekly <<< Local Events

http://smashboards.com/forums/online-tournament-listings.190/ <<< Online events

Nike up bro and Just Do it!

 

[IPB Zhivago]

I finally decided that I really like Dr. Mario. He's really fun to me, and he's the first character that I really like and I want to play 24/7 to improve.

Thing is, I also want to (eventually) play in tournaments and stuff like that, and I believe it's clear that he isn't competitively viable...So what should I do? Should I just move on to a character that is viable in tournaments and stuff like that? Or keep playing Dr. Mario?

I hate this feeling, man. Like I saw a few people say before, the game is pretty much still brand new when you compare it to Melee, so characters still have a chance to become more developed. At the same time, I feel you on the tournament mentality, if you're going to put time and money into a game and try to get results, it doesn't make sense to play a character you know is bad, ultimately you have to look at why you play, do you play to have fun and enjoy your character, or to win? I play to win, I always have, I've always tried to find a character that I know I can play well and I can learn to enjoy them and their design. I did that when I first started Street Fighter with Cammy, and she ended up being my favorite after I learned more about her background and such. Hopefully you find a character that fits both you and your goals, best of luck, bro.

 

[frobo]

Main whomever you want to main. Who cares if their not competitively viable? Smash is about using your favorite character to duke it out, not about using tiers or whatever to win every match. If I were you, I'd go for it. Go ahead and develop your Dr.Mario metagame. I'd love to see you in a tournament one day.

 

[Dark Dr. Pink-Gold Pit Jr]

I finally decided that I really like Dr. Mario. He's really fun to me, and he's the first character that I really like and I want to play 24/7 to improve.

Thing is, I also want to (eventually) play in tournaments and stuff like that, and I believe it's clear that he isn't competitively viable...So what should I do? Should I just move on to a character that is viable in tournaments and stuff like that? Or keep playing Dr. Mario?

Honestly, while Doc is low tier, this game is balenced enough where almost every character can hold their own.

 

[KamiDen]

I feel the exact same way about Mega Man, I was ready to switch to Diddy after watching Apex but I decided against it. I've loved Mega Man since I was a child and when I'm having fun with a character I tend to perform better. I just hope when I'm good enough to try and win tournaments, that Mega Man doesn't become a liability. Either way I'm not going to give up and neither should you! If I need to practice twice as hard to make him work, I will.

 

[ZephyrZ]

If you really want to compromise with yourself, I'd recommend using your less-viable main alongside a more viable main or a secondary.

That way, you can play as your favorite character competitively but still have a more viable option to lean on if you really need it.

 

[ZSaberLink]

I feel the exact same way about Mega Man, I was ready to switch to Diddy after watching Apex but I decided against it. I've loved Mega Man since I was a child and when I'm having fun with a character I tend to perform better. I just hope when I'm good enough to try and win tournaments, that Mega Man doesn't become a liability. Either way I'm not going to give up and neither should you! If I need to practice twice as hard to make him work, I will.

Ironically that's kind of a bad example. Lots of folks trying to create tier lists actually put Mega Man at least as an interesting counterpick. Also, just look at APEX this year for Melee. Yoshi got 6th place despite being mid-tier. So it's definitely possible imo.

 

[Morbi]

Dr. Mario's biggest weakness is his recovery. But, if you do not get hit, you do not have to worry about that. So do not get hit! But seriously, Dr. Mario is a decent character. If you feel as though you cannot keep up with him, the switch to Mario will not be too difficult.

As long as you are not going for the win (or as long as your opponents are not good), your character does not matter. Strive to be the best Doctor Mario if you enjoy the character and do not want to switch.

 

[Diddy Kong]

If you like , you should go and play . Be as good with him as possible, and if all things fail, pick up .

 

[RESET Vao]

Make him competitively viable, then. Stop letting other people's play influence your decision, forge your own path. Do what you want and kick ass while doing it.

Especially since the game is a few months old.

 

[Mega Espeon]

Like most people seem to be saying, the game is way too early in to tell. Many people being discredited Marth's viability back in Melee for a while until Ken showed everybody what Marth could do. You can show everybody what Doc can do. Stick with Doc for a while and see what techniques you can come up with. I'm eager to see what discoveries you make.

 

[KFrosty]

The answer to your question often depends on what your goal is when going to tournaments.

1. Is your goal to become the next top-tier player, along leagues of Ally, M2K, ZeRo, and NAKAT?
2. Is your goal to be the best player with a certain character?
3. Is your goal to just win tournaments?

My personal goal is #2 with Mario, so even if I feel he doesn't match up well in the tournament scene, I'll try my hardest to make it work. Similarly, I also hope I can achieve #1 as well, but that's not something you can "aim" for without sacrificing a lot of your time.

If your goal is to just win tournaments, I'll be very frank and say you should drop Doc and pick a character that has clearly shown results (Diddy, Sheik, ZSS, Luigi, etc.). But if you want to win tournaments with Doc, then you should play Doc.

This thread (and this post) remind me of Shroomed. As a Doc main, everyone agrees he is the best Melee Doc that exist, but he rarely ever won any tournaments. The respect he has as such makes people consider him a pro player, but that's about it. Personally, I know how it feels to be pressured by tiers. In Brawl, my favorite character to use is probably Luigi, but due to all of his glaring flaws, I had to switch to using Wario and Falco just to win more matches. It was part of the reason I didn't enjoy Brawl as much as Melee or 4, since I didn't find a character I enjoyed AND was good with. Granted I rarely have played at tournament level, but even among friends I noticed the difference, and it was disheartening.

So my advice, if you want to enjoy yourself, try to become the best Doc, if you want to win, go try someone else. If you want to do both, pray that a new balance patch gets released.

 

[Azazel]

I finally decided that I really like Dr. Mario. He's really fun to me, and he's the first character that I really like and I want to play 24/7 to improve.

Thing is, I also want to (eventually) play in tournaments and stuff like that, and I believe it's clear that he isn't competitively viable...So what should I do? Should I just move on to a character that is viable in tournaments and stuff like that? Or keep playing Dr. Mario?

Dude, push every aspect of your character, and if that's not enough, Push yourself.
My youtube channel is me pushing specific moves I see potential in to the max.
Just realize the potential of everything that is Doc, If that's not enough then then work on yourself. If you get discouraged remember this. Just a speed runners goal is not to break world records, they ultimate goal is to simply beat their personal bests. The your mindset shouldn't be "I want to better than the best," but "I want to be better than I was before"

 

[DavemanCozy]

It depends on your goals, honestly.

• Some play a low tier character because they want to make a name for themselves using this char.
  
  
• Others believe that their character has more potential than they're being given credit for (and hey, this early in the meta it may very well be that Doc has more potential) and want to push them all the way to the top.
  
  
• And there are also people who just play the character they like and not go to tournaments, simply enjoy the fun they have playing their characters.

No matter what though, you have to absolutely like the character you play. Regardless of tiers, playing a character you don't really connect with will leave you feeling empty, whereas playing one you enjoy will give you a drive forward.

My personal experience:
I myself started trying to main As I played him more though, I came to my own conclusion that I would need to use someone else to seriously win. I was ending up in low places with him and wasn't doing very well vs people in my area, even ended up getting beat badly in a Kitchener ON tournament during the 3DS lifetime by a Mega Man player and ending in 25th out of 42 entrants, around the middle basically.

I picked up , and I started doing much better. I went to Neo Canadia 5 in Toronto (a tournament of 100+ ppl) and I got 13th, getting ties with relatively good players who did well at the Come Up and even beating players who I never thought would be possible to do so 3 months ago. So far, I have also won two locals in my area, and plan on getting my revenge in Kitchener.

Obviously the switch to Fox from Shulk benefited me a lot here. I learned Fox much better than Shulk and have been relatively comfortable with most matchups, more than I was when trying to play Shulk.

However, I gotta say, I still like playing Shulk. He has his strengths in certain matchups, for example I find his extra range gives me a better edge on Ness whom I find hard for Fox to deal with. I have used him in tournament before as a counterpick to some of these kinds of MUs. So while I didn't stick with him as my competitive main character in the end, he is my secondary whom I like using and also has his own advantages.

Note that a lot of top players also have their own set of extra secondaries: you are not limited to simply play all top tiers.
Hey, you never know: you might find out an MU might be easier with than with whatever of the top tiers you picked out.

EDIT: When I say "competitive main character," by main I mean my primary character. I know the meaning of "main" has been lost with all these players coming with their 5 - 15 character "main" lists, but to me a main is someone you use for most match-ups and are most proficient with.

 

[Uffe]

Not really sure what makes Dr. Mario "not viable". Please tell me it's not because of his atrocious recovery.

 

[GhostUrsa]

It depends on your goals, honestly.

Some people will play the character they want and just not go to tourneys.

Others play a low tier character because they want to make a name for themselves using this char. Others truly believe that their character has more potential (and hey, this early in the meta it may very well be that Doc has more potential) and want to push themselves all the way.

I myself started trying to main until I came to my own conclusion that I would need to use someone else to seriously win. I picked up , and I got 13th in a Toronto monthly out of 100+ entrants. So obviously the switch to Fox from Shulk benefited me a lot here.
However, I gotta say, I still like playing Shulk. He has his strengths in certain matchups, and I have used him in tournament before as a counterpick. So while I didn't stick with him as my competitive main character in the end, he is my secondary whom I like using and also has his own advantages.

Note that a lot of top players have their own set of extra secondaries: you are not limited to simply play all top tiers.
Hey, you never know: you might find out an MU might be easier with than with whatever of the top tiers you picked out.

EDIT: When I say "competitive main character," by main I mean my primary character. I know the meaning of "main" has been lost with literally all these players coming with their 5 - 15 character "main" lists, but to me a main is someone you use for most match-ups and are most proficient with.

I'm in the same bucket, in that I believe a person can only have one Main character. This is supposed to be the character you are best with, that you know the most of their strengths and weaknesses. It doesn't mean that he is the only character you can win with, but who you know the most intimately.

I think most people use the word Main like story archetype categories, you have main characters and secondary characters, etc. What they usually forget is that even with that context, you only have typically one or 2 main characters. Only time I can think of in recent memory where there was more is in the Avengers, but in that movie there was 3 main characters while the rest of the group was technically secondary. (Stark, Cap and Thor would be main characters. Their points of view directly affected events. Widow, Hawkeye and Hulk were the secondaries, with mostly focus on side stories but still important for the main event.)

 

[Conda]

I'm in the same bucket, in that I believe a person can only have one Main character. This is supposed to be the character you are best with, that you know the most of their strengths and weaknesses. It doesn't mean that he is the only character you can win with, but who you know the most intimately.

I think most people use the word Main like story archetype categories, you have main characters and secondary characters, etc. What they usually forget is that even with that context, you only have typically one or 2 main characters. Only time I can think of in recent memory where there was more is in the Avengers, but in that movie there was 3 main characters while the rest of the group was technically secondary. (Stark, Cap and Thor would be main characters. Their points of view directly affected events. Widow, Hawkeye and Hulk were the secondaries, with mostly focus on side stories but still important for the main event.)

There are a crapton of movies with ensemble casts (multiple main protagonists), but I understand what you're trying to say.

 

[Holla@ChaBoi390]

Do what I do and use both. Doc has his moments to shine but when I need a speed boost I use Mario. In the end, he may not be that good but he is worth using.

 

[_gold_]

The Doc is slowly going up and up the tier list. I wouldn't give up on him yet!

 

[goobaje]

I agree with the whole upgrade scenario, but at the same time, I think you should play who you want. Tier lists aren't 100%, and lots of people play well with lower tier characters.

You are limiting yourself however, but imagine it like Goku in the gravity chamber rather than you picking a bad character.

 

[Dysleksikk]

Dr. Mario is completely different from Mario in a number of ways. He runs slower, is very heavy so he drops faster, and I think his recovery game is worse too. However he has a lot of upgrades too. He is much stronger and can launch people farther, his down special will deal damage and is a pretty good kill move at higher percentages, and his up special is a beast of a move at close range much like Luigi's. So to play a good Dr. Mario I think you need to focus on playing a more tactical approach than Mario, who can just run in and dodge while he attacks. His slow actions are a huge downfall, but if you read your opponent's moves correctly, you can set up quite a deadly punish. Be patient, rack up the damage, and look for an opening, then I'm sure you'll do just fine. This is of course my opinion and take on a good Dr. Mario game.

 

[Princess_Emilu]

I'm not a pro or anything, but unless there is a fatal flaw that makes him near-impossible to win with, you should play with him anyway...

...but on the other hand, playing with a difficult character will probably lead to losing a lot, in the beginning... and maybe in the future. How important is winning to you? If winning is everything, just stick with a high-tier character. If winning is nice but not that important... get really good with Dr. Mario.

 

[SleuthMechanism]

I have the same problem. ganondorf is the character i am most comfortable(though ironically sheik was the first character i attached to in this game before seeing all the hype about her but i've found she's gotten less satisfying for me to play) using above all others but i know he just doesn't have the tools to keep up against an opponent of equal skill level consistently.(i do beleive he has potential with custom moves though. wizard's dropkick really helps give him a fighting chance and open up his options more and both his custom up specials do the same in different ways IMO) it is indeed quite the dilemma.

 

[tru.]

It's way too early to tell exactly where characters are on the tier list, but it's safe to say Dr. Mario isn't too high up. It is not necessary to use a high-level character in order to win. Dr. Mario, as far as I know, can create decent combos. So spacing correctly and using wise attacks to rack up damage can do the trick.

Of course, I see Mario better than Dr. Mario, but it's essentially up to preference. Switch between these two characters and see which one is better, and use them over the other. I believe Mario can perform more successful combos.

 

[FooltheFlames]

Well Mario is definitely more viable than Doc at this point it seems, but you can still make him work
Just main both; only use Mario if a sheik or diddy player gives you trouble~

 

[IncomingGhost]

I wouldn't say that any character is not viable in this game yet. It's still so fresh, and it's pretty well balanced.
Just play who you have the most fun with.
Although, it can be really helpful in tournament to be comfortable with 2 characters.

This. Not to mention Dr. Mario is pretty viable

 

[mobilisq]

Trela just won a tournament with Doctor Mario.

Please tell me it was recorded, I'd love to watch it

 

[◥θ┴θ◤ | JJ]

I say play who you love and try to find a niche. Look at aMSa with Yoshi in Melee. He didn't need to switch to Fox like Leffen to get to Top 5 at Apex. He took a low-tier character and worked around its shortcomings to make it work.

Gimpyfish with Bowser back in the day is another great example. He used mindgames in such incredible ways that even a minor slip-up on an opponent's part would cost them dearly with radical punishes.

Also get used to his using his custom moves. They make him much better than his vanilla build.

All that said, I recommend using Mario as a secondary if you're going to main Doc. Sometimes you might need to pull the original out for different situations -- plus he can combo better.

 

[Yori12]

I actually prefer dr Mario to regular Mario as well his side smash is just so fast and powerful its crazy. Also his recovery isn't nearly as bad as people make it out to be. Ganondorf and little mac's are way worse.

 

[adamlon1]

No specific character isn't viable in competitive play especially Dr Mario as he has in my opinion a better version of Mario's Fireballs and also a great aerial and on-stage game but what gives Dr Mario his short comings is his recovery which Isn't as bad as people think it is especially with customs on the way. Speaking of customs that improves Dr Mario quite a bit and Customs will probably be played in several tournaments now that Evo is using them. But the point is that any character can be competitively viable with the right time or practice put into them for example Mr.E and Marth, Eikelmann and Ganondorf, Keitaro and Falco and many more.

 

[ZomBiehn]

The game is still practically Brand New, the characters still have plenty of room to grow and advance in tournament play, if you like and have fun with the Doc then stay with him, who wants to play a game your not having fun with?

 

[Moonslash]

Go with who you like, I never pay too much attention to the tier list.

 

[DD_]

Play who you like! If you get to the point where you're getting super competitive and close to winning tournaments and legit the only reason you're not beating players is due to playing Doc, then consider switching! Until you get to that point though just have fun with the character you like. It's not like Doc can't win games you just have to put the work in which won't feel like work if you enjoy the character anyway.

 

[Vermanubis]

If you love the character, use him. There are plenty of low-tier heroes out there that prove that, while tiers certainly exist, they're ultimately not the deciding factor in success.