I don't love playing as any Smash 4 character and joined competitive smash at the worst time.

[W.A.C.]

My original mains in the 3DS version were Diddy Kong and Yoshi, but Yoshi got nerfed super hard in the first patch and Diddy Kong got nerfed so hard in the following two patches afterwards that I no longer love playing either character. I experimented with tons of different characters overtime, including attempts to dual main or secondary characters such as Meta Knight, Larry, King Dedede, and Villager, but overtime I lost interest in those characters for a variety of reasons.

After dual maining Meta Knight for over a year, I got sick of his limited neutral and laggy af forward air, so I dropped him. Larry's defensive game was never as strong as I wanted it to be and never received the frame data buffs he needed for his cannon ball to be a threatening move. King Dedede's frame data is awful and I became way less interested in him once customs died.

Villager is currently my second favorite character in the game, but as an extremely grab-centric player, his slow af grab made it difficult to make it work into my play style. After putting a lot of time into him for two months, I got sick of being punished for whiffed grabs. Really irritating how a lot of defensive characters in this game either have lousy grab animations or lousy followups.

So I primarily focus on Diddy Kong, but after he was double nerfed, I do not love playing at that character anymore primarily because of how hard they nerfed up air in 1.08. As of right now, I only like 3/5 of his aerials, which is really annoying to only like 60% of the aerials for a character I main. Also hate some of the other changes, but the nerfs to that move's frame data and range affected my enjoyment of the character the most.

While I'm an highly motivated player, I hate how I don't love playing as anyone in this game. I'm a very defensive play that's extremely grab-centric play style who loves camping with projectiles and fast characters. Unfortunately. no-one in this game fits my play style well. :/ I've explored a ton of characters and have so many issues with so many characters in this game that I wish my options were way better. The only character I haven't explored extensively that might fit my play style somewhat is Mii Gunner, but with the current ruleset to Mii's in competitive play, it's not worth my time.

I feel like I joined competitive Smash at the worst possible time, as Brawl, Project M 3.02, and older versions of Smash 4 interest me more than the current version of Smash 4. I hate how my only options for competitively relevant Smash games are just two games that are over 14 years old and Smash 4. As of right now, I feel like I'm becoming less interested in Smash 4's meta since there's no-one I really want to main, but what keeps me playing is my enthusiasm to improve as a player. I wish I had the love for this game I used to have, but patches killed it. If Diddy Kong wasn't my favorite Nintendo character, I'd have even less enthusiasm right now.

With all these factors in mind, I'm not sure what to do. I want to continue to improve and grow as a Smash player, but I hate my options in terms of competitively relevant Smash games and my character choices in Smash 4. Despite Smash 4's enormous roster, the fact so many characters have such linear neutrals, lackluster camping game, and lousy frame data just makes them not seem worth playing. It's important for me to continue going to tournaments regularly, so the Smash game I play has to be competitively relevant. I'd consider Melee, but the fact my favorite character is not solo viable (Yoshi), the game lacks control options, and how this game destroys hands are three factors that are complete deal-breakers. I have horrific finger joints that make playing Smash 4 difficult on my hands, so there's no way in Hell I'm ever picking up Melee competitively unless they release an HD version with some of my issues with it addressed.

Note: Initially I made a thread similar to this in the competitive board, but they merged it into a different thread for some odd reason. [LINK] I was given permission by @Shaya to remake this thread in the general discussion board. DO NOT MERGE THIS INTO AN EXISTING THREAD!

 

[GreenMonkey]

Awww I'm sorry to hear that. :<

As you have already experimented with a variety of characters and came at the conclusion that none fit your play-style or suit you well enough, I can only suggest perhaps taking a break from Smash for a little while. Even though you mentioned you wanted to regularly attend tournaments, but being disinterested from the game you're playing would probably just worsen your view on Smash over time.

If you feel like maintaining your competitive presence is mandatory and something that you hold near and dear to your heart, perhaps try out other fighting games or older Smash games. You said that Melee isn't a game you would like to pick up competitively, so perhaps try out Brawl. If that doesn't suit you either, than maybe look outside of Smash at other fighting games.

Maybe all of my advice didn't help your situation too much, seeing how you understand your circumstances and love for a game cannot be easily recovered, but the most that I can help at this point to comfort and encourage you. Don't give up! Don't let flaws of a character beat you down! Even if Diddy Kong's aerials have been severely nerfed, he still has the tools to be a strong character in the metagame. I know you can do well with him! >w<

No matter what approach you decide to take on this matter, I wish you the best of luck!

 

[Raijinken]

I wish I could help more directly, but as someone whose entire interest in the game lies in customs and Miis, the best I can suggest is trying, even if it's just with some reasonably skilled friends, to host your own Smash events (tournaments or not) and set the rules yourself. Unfortunately, there aren't a whole lot of other options, and compromise is... pretty impossible with most of the playerbase. If you can't beat 'em, either join 'em, or splinter.

Personally, I've had far more fun hosting my own events than at any tournament I've attended or competed in. If it's feasible for you to do so, I'd absolutely recommend trying that route.

 

[W.A.C.]

Awww I'm sorry to hear that. :<

As you have already experimented with a variety of characters and came at the conclusion that none fit your play-style or suit you well enough, I can only suggest perhaps taking a break from Smash for a little while. Even though you mentioned you wanted to regularly attend tournaments, but being disinterested from the game you're playing would probably just worsen your view on Smash over time.

Already took a break for part of the summer because of anger over patch 1.0.8. I'm done taking breaks.

If you feel like maintaining your competitive presence is mandatory and something that you hold near and dear to your heart, perhaps try out other fighting games or older Smash games. You said that Melee isn't a game you would like to pick up competitively, so perhaps try out Brawl. If that doesn't suit you either, than maybe look outside of Smash at other fighting games.

Brawl is dead. If its competitive scene was as active as Smash 4 or as active as Melee, I would play that instead of Smash 4. But it's insanely dead while the other three games are at their peak in popularity.

Maybe all of my advice didn't help your situation too much, seeing how you understand your circumstances and love for a game cannot be easily recovered, but the most that I can help at this point to comfort and encourage you. Don't give up! Don't let flaws of a character beat you down! Even if Diddy Kong's aerials have been severely nerfed, he still has the tools to be a strong character in the metagame. I know you can do well with him! >w<

No matter what approach you decide to take on this matter, I wish you the best of luck!

While I still view Diddy Kong as a great character and solo-viable, my love for playing as that character has been gone since the 1.0.8 patch.

I wish I could help more directly, but as someone whose entire interest in the game lies in customs and Miis, the best I can suggest is trying, even if it's just with some reasonably skilled friends, to host your own Smash events (tournaments or not) and set the rules yourself. Unfortunately, there aren't a whole lot of other options, and compromise is... pretty impossible with most of the playerbase. If you can't beat 'em, either join 'em, or splinter.

Personally, I've had far more fun hosting my own events than at any tournament I've attended or competed in. If it's feasible for you to do so, I'd absolutely recommend trying that route.

I prefer to attend as many tournaments as I possibly can that are located near where I live regardless of my views on customs and Mii's.

 

[Dar4]

While I'm an highly motivated player, I hate how I don't love playing as anyone in this game. I'm a very defensive play that's extremely grab-centric play style who loves camping with projectiles and fast characters. Unfortunately. no-one in this game fits my play style well. :/ I've explored a ton of characters and have so many issues with so many characters in this game that I wish my options were way better. The only character I haven't explored extensively that might fit my play style somewhat is Mii Gunner, but with the current

To be honest that sounds like an unrealistic expectation for a character. You want speed, great camping and a great grab game? Characters have to have weaknesses for purposes of game balance. They can't be great at everything.

Maybe try Fox? He has great speed, good grab and OK projectile. Maybe sheik? she's campy, has a great projectile and good grab.

Are you sure it's really the nerfs that caused you to lose your interest? Diddy is still a top 10 character and Yoshi isn't far behind. They're both great, solo viable characters. There's been nerfs since release but the core playstyle of those characters is still there. Nerfs shouldn't change your enjoyment of that playstyle.

But if you really don't find any of the characters enjoyable, with the huge selection available it sounds like you might just not find smash 4 itself fun. With the huge selection available you should be able to settle on atleast one of them. It's possible smash 4 is just not the game for you.

 

[MarioMeteor]

All I can tell you is to drop the game. If you don't love it, don't play. Meta Knight is a very good character and to drop a character over one move is kind of silly, to be honest.

 

[randomguy1235]

Both your characters are still very viable and A tier? I don't the problem here frankly.

 

[W.A.C.]

To be honest that sounds like an unrealistic expectation for a character. You want speed, great camping and a great grab game? Characters have to have weaknesses for purposes of game balance. They can't be great at everything.

Maybe try Fox? He has great speed, good grab and OK projectile. Maybe sheik? she's campy, has a great projectile and good grab.

Fox has issues against shield because of his lackluster throws and his default projectile is meh.

Are you sure it's really the nerfs that caused you to lose your interest? Diddy is still a top 10 character and Yoshi isn't far behind.

They're both great, solo viable characters. There's been nerfs since release but the core playstyle of those characters is still there. Nerfs shouldn't change your enjoyment of that playstyle.

Watch footage of ZeRo play 1.0.4 Diddy Kong compared 1.0.6 Diddy Kong to the current iteration, and you'll notice an enormous difference in play style between 1.0.4 and now. Hell, how he utilizes up air in 1.0.6 at neutral compared to later versions changed a ton because that move stop being a good move to throw out at neutral.

As for Yoshi, that character is not solo-viable. He is the most overrated character in the game and does not get results for a reason. People act like he's amazing, yet none of the top Yoshies can make it to top 40 at any giant tournament except CEO (which had an entrance cap limit of 512) because that character's tool aren't good enough. I stopped loving that character in 1.0.4 because the changes to him made his approach game go to hell. Best Yoshi can often hope for in approach is trading with nair or, if he's insanely lucky, trading with fair. He's low high tier at absolute best. The reason why Diddy Kong, Shiek, and Cloud **** on Yoshi so badly in this game is because he can't deal with fast disjoints well at all. In Brawl, he could at the very least approach with back air, but they made that move laggy af in this game and that was before they nerfed his dash attack, neutral special, and dair. Nerfing the startup to his neutral special made his god awful grab game such an insane detriment. If the 3DS version didn't nerf his frame data and if his back air's frame data was way more comparable to how it was in Brawl, you would be seeing Yoshi players getting actual results because he would actually be a solid character at approaching. But in his current state? Nah. Like I'll admit Diddy Kong after being double nerfed is still a great character, but Yoshi is decent at best.

But if you really don't find any of the characters enjoyable, with the huge selection available it sounds like you might just not find smash 4 itself fun. With the huge selection available you should be able to settle on atleast one of them. It's possible smash 4 is just not the smash game for you.

Smash 4 fit me better with older versions. Smash 4 is not the best Smash game for me by any means, but my options suck in terms of competitively relevant Smash games, so I'm stuck with it for now.

Both your characters are still very viable and A tier? I don't the problem here frankly.

>Yoshi
>A Tier

Have someone make it to top 16 going ALL Yoshi at EVO 2016, TBH6, or Genesis 4, then maybe I'll see Yoshi having potential being at the very bottom of A tier. Top 16 really shouldn't be that difficult for a character that many people dub as amazing, yet that character will probably never reach that spot unless the player using another character alongside Yoshi (Exampe: ESAM using both Pikachu and Yoshi)

 

[ELITEWarri0r115]

All I can say, FORCE yourself into a character even if you dislike them. Yoshi can pull of a few combos and you are more on grabbing, then Ness is an idea. His PK Fire is good for trapping a character then grabbing with a down or back throw is good. Though using that repeatably is very annoying and not very good, as you can become predictable. Though if you need combos, I suggest Bayonetta. I see her being the king of combos, like a good order is (Quick Jab)+++++ It depends by direction. If this does not help with specific characters, then you will have a hard time. Only 3 options: Force into a character, 6 month break (get away from smash, until you want back), or give up and keep playing a character that is not into you. All up to you buddy. there are more options that i did not list, but up to you.

 

[W.A.C.]

All I can say, FORCE yourself into a character even if you dislike them. Yoshi can pull of a few combos and you are more on grabbing, then Ness is an idea. His PK Fire is good for trapping a character then grabbing with a down or back throw is good. Though using that repeatably is very annoying and not very good, as you can become predictable. Though if you need combos, I suggest Bayonetta. I see her being the king of combos, like a good order is (Quick Jab)+++++ It depends by direction. If this does not help with specific characters, then you will have a hard time. Only 3 options: Force into a character, 6 month break (get away from smash, until you want back), or give up and keep playing a character that is not into you. All up to you buddy. there are more options that i did not list, but up to you.

>Ness

I hate Ness. lol I hate all of his specials, I hate his appearance, I HATE his voice, etc.

>Bayonetta

Not really a grab-centric character. More so a character that loses to shield and grabs out of shield.

> 6 Month Break

Not taking anymore breaks.

 

[Egg.]

From what you've said, it sounds like Sheik would best fit your criteria. Sheik's grab leads into many followups, and it is possible to play campy if you want between needles and her super safe aerials. Needles are insane to force approaches or just for playing defensively, plus she's pretty speedy. Pretty much everything a character needs.

 

[W.A.C.]

From what you've said, it sounds like Sheik would best fit your criteria. Sheik's grab leads into many followups, and it is possible to play campy if you want between needles and her super safe aerials. Needles are insane to force approaches or just for playing defensively, plus she's pretty speedy. Pretty much everything a character needs.

She has everything a character needs, but dear god, she's so boring. None of her specials are interesting moves and most of her aerials aren't visually appealing to watch, especially on repeat which is bad for such a combo heavy character that relies on lot on spamming the same options repeatedly.

 

[Wintermelon43]

All I can say, FORCE yourself into a character even if you dislike them.

Going by how it seems right now, this might be what you have to do. If not, drop the game.

 

[W.A.C.]

I don't see why I should pick up a character I DISLIKE when I do enjoy Diddy Kong. I don't love playing as him anymore thanks to nerfs, but at the very least, I do get enjoyment out of the character.

 

[Wintermelon43]

Then use him!

 

[W.A.C.]

Then use him!

I...do. Just wish I was using a character I straight up LOVED to play like previous versions of the character before he got over nerfed in 1.0.8.

 

[2fast]

Greninja might be your mans. He's fast, has some grab followups, and his neutral B is a great camping tool. Either greninja or shiek but if you find shiek boring than greninja is probably the way to go.

 

[Dark Phazon]

Just main Ganondorf you know its the only real option.

Killing people at 60% is fun.

 

[W.A.C.]

Greninja might be your mans. He's fast, has some grab followups, and his neutral B is a great camping tool. Either greninja or shiek but if you find shiek boring than greninja is probably the way to go.

...Why Greninja? He used to be amazing, but they nerfed him so insanely hard that much of what him stand out as a unique character worth picking up over other characters was taken away. This video by ZeRo perfectly sums up why bother with Greninja? He's a perfect example of what happens when you over nerf a character. As for Shiek, I find all of her default specials to be boring moves, much of her animations to be visually uninteresting, and just find her to be an uninteresting character in play style.

Just main Ganondorf you know its the only real option.

Killing people at 60% is fun.

Slow Captain Falcon is not my type of character.

 

[DKGrayson]

It sounds like a case of analysis paralysis, you think and research so much into the characters, that you talk yourself out of loving every one for one reason or another.

Either:

- Stop playing (please don't stop playing)

- Go back to what made you love smash in the first place; play with the friends/partners that make you laugh while you play, and enjoy the experience, rather than the winning or losing.

A game will always be limited by what you can't do, so focus on WHY you play; I'm sure everyone who plays Smash, does so because it brings them joy in one form or another.

If it makes you unhappy, or you don't love it, then do something to rekindle that love.

 

[Trelloant]

You may disagree but it doesn't seem like you WANT to play a character in smash. Unfortunately no character will be perfect, which seems like what your going for. You can't have a

I...do. Just wish I was using a character I straight up LOVED to play like previous versions of the character before he got over nerfed in 1.0.8.

Fox has issues against shield because of his lackluster throws and his default projectile is meh.

>Ness

I hate Ness. lol I hate all of his specials, I hate his appearance, I HATE his voice, etc.

>Bayonetta

Not really a grab-centric character. More so a character that loses to shield and grabs out of shield.

> 6 Month Break

Not taking anymore breaks.

She has everything a character needs, but dear god, she's so boring

From what I see you want EVERYTHING. That is not realistic.

 

[ELITEWarri0r115]

Looking more into each character and players, You can still play diddy, but You must not improve the character itself, but your actions. Look at Zero here in the grand finals. Try focusing on your opponent more than the character you play. the moves you KNOW can create many options if you have good reads. Forcing into a character can help here too. you get more options between rounds to evaluate what the player is like and the best ways to get their weak point.

She has everything a character needs, but dear god, she's so boring. None of her specials are interesting moves and most of her aerials aren't visually appealing to watch, especially on repeat which is bad for such a combo heavy character that relies on lot on spamming the same options repeatedly.

What You say here ticks me off. A character DOES NOTHAVE TO BE APPEALING in order to play. Its is HOW they play and their FEELING of it. Like when I started, I chose shulk because of his appeal to me, I was terrible, but I got used to his feeling. I started getting used to many others not for their looks, but feeling to play. You NEED to have the sense of FEELING. You may have it with Diddy only, but at least you should get used to viewing the opponent.

 

[2fast]

...Why Greninja? He used to be amazing, but they nerfed him so insanely hard that much of what him stand out as a unique character worth picking up over other characters was taken away. This video by ZeRo perfectly sums up why bother with Greninja? He's a perfect example of what happens when you over nerf a character. As for Shiek, I find all of her default specials to be boring moves, much of her animations to be visually uninteresting, and just find her to be an uninteresting character in play style.

If you find shiek boring then greninja is the way harder to use and more technical but flashier version of shiek. He may have been nerfed but he's far from a bad character. He has incredible intricate combos that take practice to pull off and a great camping tool to force approaches. He's also a crowd favorite if you like the crowd being on your side (while shiek is not).

Greninja just doesn't have representation really which is why people don't think very highly of him.

 

[Xermo]

This thread again, lol

 

[Eugene Wang]

You want a winning character, but you hate playing proven winning characters? If that isn't a recipe for being disappointed, I don't know what is.

You're going to have to choose to grind through with an S tier, or accept that you're going to have to do your own character research and practice extra hard with a mid-tier. I'd suggest the latter, since unless you do your playing in SoCal, Japan, Tristate, or Florida, you can realistically win locals and regionals with a mid-tier.

 

[Charey]

I think you are looking at the bad sides rather then the good, which is easy to do when your point of comparison is pre-patch Diddy who had everything and more that a character could want, every character currently in the game is worse than him.

I wouldn't choose a main right now if you don't have an idea of what you will accept out of a character's flaws, but instead try out a character that looks interesting for a few weeks then move on to the next if you don't fall in love with them. If you don't have any character that looks intriguing right now just start from the top of the tier list and work your way down.

Their isn't any reason you have to stick with the character right off the bat, and even if you end up hating some of the characters you try out the practice you put into them will help you in match ups against them.

 

[MarioMeteor]

It sounds like you want Brawl Meta Knight and Snake to do the Fusion Dance.

 

[Harmonious]

It sounds to me like you're just trying characters out, going "eh, their [move] is horrendous" or "neutral sucks, grab is slow." The point of maining any given character is to not only capitalize on their strengths, but to combat their weaknesses the best you can.

Villager mains, for example, often send Lloid rocket out to either bait or cover a grab. Koopalings can do the same thing with Mechakoopa, and their Fairs are such a good anti-air that the best option for their foe is often to back away (or pick it up, if you can time it). DDDs seem to not care about their horrible frame data, rather they send out Gordos and try to read their opponent the best they can.

Sheik seems to fit all of your criteria perfectly well, but you won't pick her up because she isn't flashy? To me, this screams "nothing is good enough." Every character can be fun if you're open-minded, and every character can combat their flaws.

 

[GreenMonkey]

All of us here are trying to provide you with helpful advice, while you're just constantly brushing us off and rejecting our suggestions. When we try to convince you that there's hope for a character, you list all of their flaws without acknowledging their strengths. When we try to suggest playing another character, you refuse without giving a logical explanation.

>Ness

I hate Ness. lol I hate all of his specials, I hate his appearance, I HATE his voice, etc.

>Bayonetta

Not really a grab-centric character. More so a character that loses to shield and grabs out of shield.

> 6 Month Break

Not taking anymore breaks.

Slow Captain Falcon is not my type of character.

What are you looking for, exactly? If it's advice, you have plenty of that here, but you're not accepting any of it. If it's comfort, then you're asking us to be nice to a cold shoulder.

If you really want us to help point you to a character that may fit your playstyle, then at least take each suggestion into consideration rather than rejecting each one with one-sentence explanations.

 

[WritersBlah]

Actually, Ness seems to fit your qualifications really well. He's got great projectiles, an excellent grab, and is speedy and can play rushdown with pretty interesting aerials. Why not him?

And if not, maybe try out Rosalina? She doesn't strictly have great movement speed, but Luma is basically the most complex "projectile" any game will ever have, in addition to star bits, and she has great aerials and a lot of followups out of grab (its range isn't great, but it's fast and hard to punish) so you can play campy and somewhat rushdown-y at the same time.

Zero Suit also seems to fit your qualifications, though you can't play as campy with her, and her aerials might seem boring to you as well. Mario and Luigi seem pretty good too, I dunno. There's also Toon Link, Pikachu, Pit, and Wii Fit Trainer.

edit: nvm, just saw that you also hate Ness's voice or something. Maybe Lucas in that case? His voice is less annoying while retaining a lot of Ness's quaities. Just has a kind of laggy grab.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I think you're expecting too much from the game.

You're expecting some sort of perfect character that you thought you had with Pre-Patch Diddy.

Let me be blunt. You don't want another character. You just want Pre-Patch Diddy. That's well and fine, but unless you're willing to accept another character for what they are, you won't find your new character.

 

[DaDavid]

You just want a character that is as close to flawless as pre-patch Diddy was and refuse to accept or attempt to play any character may suit your style if you have to try a little harder to make them work. Or, you want to continue using Diddy but complain that he isn't as good as before? Is that about the gist of it?

 

[W.A.C.]

It sounds like a case of analysis paralysis, you think and research so much into the characters, that you talk yourself out of loving every one for one reason or another.

Either:

- Stop playing (please don't stop playing)

- Go back to what made you love smash in the first place; play with the friends/partners that make you laugh while you play, and enjoy the experience, rather than the winning or losing.

A game will always be limited by what you can't do, so focus on WHY you play; I'm sure everyone who plays Smash, does so because it brings them joy in one form or another.

If it makes you unhappy, or you don't love it, then do something to rekindle that love.

You know what I enjoy? Playing character that feel amazing with strong campy options. Patches nerfed the hell out of strong defensive tools top tiers had among other things. Nearly every top tier with a projectile from the 3DS days had one of their projectiles nerfed except Diddy Kong. I ****ing hate how insanely aggro patches have made this meta.

You may disagree but it doesn't seem like you WANT to play a character in smash. Unfortunately no character will be perfect, which seems like what your going for. You can't have a

From what I see you want EVERYTHING. That is not realistic.

Not in the current iteration of Smash 4.

Looking more into each character and players, You can still play diddy, but You must not improve the character itself, but your actions. Look at Zero here in the grand finals. Try focusing on your opponent more than the character you play. the moves you KNOW can create many options if you have good reads. Forcing into a character can help here too. you get more options between rounds to evaluate what the player is like and the best ways to get their weak point.

What You say here ticks me off. A character DOES NOTHAVE TO BE APPEALING in order to play. Its is HOW they play and their FEELING of it. Like when I started, I chose shulk because of his appeal to me, I was terrible, but I got used to his feeling. I started getting used to many others not for their looks, but feeling to play. You NEED to have the sense of FEELING. You may have it with Diddy only, but at least you should get used to viewing the opponent.

Here's the difference. ZeRo still loves playing Diddy Kong even after the nerfs. I DON'T. I don't love how any character plays in this game. Most projectiles and/or aerials have way too much lag to be abusable.

If you find shiek boring then greninja is the way harder to use and more technical but flashier version of shiek. He may have been nerfed but he's far from a bad character. He has incredible intricate combos that take practice to pull off and a great camping tool to force approaches. He's also a crowd favorite if you like the crowd being on your side (while shiek is not).

Greninja just doesn't have representation really which is why people don't think very highly of him.

Greninja is a decent character, but he is not solo viable. He cannot deal with a top level Shiek player and for the insane amount of work he requires, there is clearly not enough reward. Now 3DS days Greninja? I probably would have loved to play that character because of his amazing projectile, kill confirm out of grabs, his up special was better at gimping, you could cancel the end lag to his aerials with shadow sneak, forward air hit way harder, etc. But not the current iteration of Greninja. He just feels way too linear now and lacks versatility.

You want a winning character, but you hate playing proven winning characters? If that isn't a recipe for being disappointed, I don't know what is.

You're going to have to choose to grind through with an S tier, or accept that you're going to have to do your own character research and practice extra hard with a mid-tier. I'd suggest the latter, since unless you do your playing in SoCal, Japan, Tristate, or Florida, you can realistically win locals and regionals with a mid-tier.

After all the nerfs, both the winning characters and losing characters aren't that much fun to me. Characters that aren't winning characters are typically lacking in versatility and characters lacking in versatility are insanely boring to main.

I think you are looking at the bad sides rather then the good, which is easy to do when your point of comparison is pre-patch Diddy who had everything and more that a character could want, every character currently in the game is worse than him.

I wouldn't choose a main right now if you don't have an idea of what you will accept out of a character's flaws, but instead try out a character that looks interesting for a few weeks then move on to the next if you don't fall in love with them. If you don't have any character that looks intriguing right now just start from the top of the tier list and work your way down.

Their isn't any reason you have to stick with the character right off the bat, and even if you end up hating some of the characters you try out the practice you put into them will help you in match ups against them.

Characters are way too lacking in options in this game. A character like Diddy Kong has the second best neutral game, yet he's entirely reliant on bananas and fair. This game nerfed versatility to the point where I've been ****ing depressed about this game every day for OVER EIGHT MONTHS.

It sounds to me like you're just trying characters out, going "eh, their [move] is horrendous" or "neutral sucks, grab is slow." The point of maining any given character is to not only capitalize on their strengths, but to combat their weaknesses the best you can.

Villager mains, for example, often send Lloid rocket out to either bait or cover a grab. Koopalings can do the same thing with Mechakoopa, and their Fairs are such a good anti-air that the best option for their foe is often to back away (or pick it up, if you can time it). DDDs seem to not care about their horrible frame data, rather they send out Gordos and try to read their opponent the best they can.

Sheik seems to fit all of your criteria perfectly well, but you won't pick her up because she isn't flashy? To me, this screams "nothing is good enough." Every character can be fun if you're open-minded, and every character can combat their flaws.

It's not that Shiek isn't flashy enough, it's that her moveset is boring. I try playing her for half an hour and get bored of her. All of her specials are uninteresting moves.

All of us here are trying to provide you with helpful advice, while you're just constantly brushing us off and rejecting our suggestions. When we try to convince you that there's hope for a character, you list all of their flaws without acknowledging their strengths. When we try to suggest playing another character, you refuse without giving a logical explanation.

What are you looking for, exactly? If it's advice, you have plenty of that here, but you're not accepting any of it. If it's comfort, then you're asking us to be nice to a cold shoulder.

If you really want us to help point you to a character that may fit your playstyle, then at least take each suggestion into consideration rather than rejecting each one with one-sentence explanations.

I think I'm screwed in terms of character. No-one in this game fits my play style worth a damn.

Actually, Ness seems to fit your qualifications really well. He's got great projectiles, an excellent grab, and is speedy and can play rushdown with pretty interesting aerials. Why not him?

And if not, maybe try out Rosalina? She doesn't strictly have great movement speed, but Luma is basically the most complex "projectile" any game will ever have, in addition to star bits, and she has great aerials and a lot of followups out of grab (its range isn't great, but it's fast and hard to punish) so you can play campy and somewhat rushdown-y at the same time.

Zero Suit also seems to fit your qualifications, though you can't play as campy with her, and her aerials might seem boring to you as well. Mario and Luigi seem pretty good too, I dunno. There's also Toon Link, Pikachu, Pit, and Wii Fit Trainer.

edit: nvm, just saw that you also hate Ness's voice or something. Maybe Lucas in that case? His voice is less annoying while retaining a lot of Ness's quaities. Just has a kind of laggy grab.

>Ness
I hate all of his specials and his voice.
>Rosalina
I never have a great time playing her. She just doesn't fit me well.
>ZSS
Meta too aggro. She was more fun in the 3DS days when she could be campy af with her blaster, but they added a bunch of end lag which forced her to be this one dimensional character with an aggro meta with not much variations in play styles among top ZSS players.
>Mario and Luigi
Mario can be fun for a few matches, then I get bored of his simplistic play style. Never enjoyed Luigi personally. Outside of his dair, bair, and down throw, there's little I like about his play style.
>Toon Link
Extremely one dimensional character. He's bombs the characters because his aerials are so laggy that he can barely approach without a bomb in hand.
>Pikachu
Aggro meta, not interested.
>Pit
Very bland simplistic play style where the character excels at barely anything.
>WFT
Not a whole lot to this character and her grab game lacks a combo throw.

I think you're expecting too much from the game.

You're expecting some sort of perfect character that you thought you had with Pre-Patch Diddy.

Let me be blunt. You don't want another character. You just want Pre-Patch Diddy. That's well and fine, but unless you're willing to accept another character for what they are, you won't find your new character.

I want the type of game with got in the 3DS days where top and high tiers had WAY more options. I absolutely loved 3DS days Diddy Kong and Yoshi, but were nerfed to the point where Yoshi became a character that sucked at approaching and Diddy Kong lost much of his versatility. I also might have loved 3DS days Greninja if I had put time into that character judging by videos I've watched.

You just want a character that is as close to flawless as pre-patch Diddy was and refuse to accept or attempt to play any character may suit your style if you have to try a little harder to make them work. Or, you want to continue using Diddy but complain that he isn't as good as before? Is that about the gist of it?

They nerfed him to the point where I get nowhere near as much enjoyment out of him as I used to. I LOVED the 3DS version, but I kind of hate the current version of Smash 4. Patches have totally ruined this game for me and I feel like I don't have any other options because...

-I have zero interest in competitive Melee and Smash 64.
-Competitive Brawl has no real future.
-Competitive Project M has no longterm future because of legal reasons, plus I don't enjoy the game anywhere near as much since 3.5 came out. The game went from being an awesome hybrid of Melee and Brawl, to Melee Lite.

As a result, I am insanely frustrated and feel like I became part of competitive Smash at the worst possible time. I hate what patches have done to both this game and Project M. What I also hate is that since I suck at this game and entered the competitive scene at the time I did, my opinion DOESN'T ****ING MATTER.

 

[MacSmitty]

>Calls other characters movesets "boring" and "not flashy"
>Likes using Pre-Patch Diddy, who was known for using Hoo-Hah, the most boring/frustrating way for players to go out.

 

[W.A.C.]

>Calls other characters movesets "boring" and "not flashy"
>Likes using Pre-Patch Diddy, who was known for using Hoo-Hah, the most boring/frustrating way for players to go out.

Diddy Kong's moveset has always been visually interesting and his versatility in 1.04 was godlike.

 

[Charey]

If you are going to refuse any advice then there is no point to this thread.

Your choices are to either pick a character or quit. You are not going to get a character that does everything the best because they actually tried balancing Smash 4.

 

[W.A.C.]

They over balanced the game to where hardly anyone feels amazing and to where characters have to be played in a strict specific way to get results at top level play. Shiek is about the only exception.

 

[Murlough]

They over balanced the game to where hardly anyone feels amazing and to where characters have to be played in a strict specific way to get results at top level play. Shiek is about the only exception.

Well then play Shiek or another game. Whining gets you nowhere.

 

[ELITEWarri0r115]

This is like trying to convince a little child. All of us are producing ideas for you, but refuse because the moves are "Boring" or "Not flashy". So the solution?
GIVE UP.
Because I give up for trying to help! You're on your own buddy. I don't care anymore because it's ALL ABOUT YOU TO GET THE WAY YOU WANT. (first time in MONTHS I felt really mad about something).

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

This topic has probably gone far enough now.