"I don't care how strong you are. It's not strong enough!" Roy Match Up Thread

Brim

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Fellow roy mains! I need help fighting ivysaur, can anyone with experience in that match up enlighten me?
Before I give any answers, what do you have problems with against Ivy? Or what specifically seems to give you trouble when fighting her?
 

Beastx

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Does anyone have any advice on approaching a Samus? It's honestly so difficult for me haha.
 

TeeJay308

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Really? I have a lot of experience in the Samus MU, and I think Roy can get in quite easily. There are a few things you need to look out for when playing vs. Samus, namely:

- Samus is a very heavy character, so she can crouch-cancel stuff up to ridiculous percentages. Be wary of this and get her up in the air ASAP and juggle her as much as you can to build up the percentage. I go for grabs a lot vs. Samus and usually go for FThrow into Dash Attack to get her above me. Once you've managed to get underneath her, you can harass her with UAirs. The UAir will, when spaced and timed correctly, beat out her DAir and NAir cleanly. The beautiful thing about the UAir is that it will keep her in the air as well, so you can really do some work when she's above you. She can, however, mix up her falling momentum with bombs, so keep that in mind. Another way to rack up damage is by spacing your FAirs and other pokes outside of her DTilt/DSmash ranges. Roy has the disjoint to safely attack a crouch-cancelling Samus.

- Her OoS options are all very risky, so if you're playing vs. a Samus that likes to UpB OoS a lot, bait it out by doing a late FAir on shield and dashing away. Her grab is obviously very slow and punishable if she misses it, so try to always punish the missed grapples really hard. Preferably with wavedash FSmash or shorthop BAir to maybe get a quick kill on some stages

- Samus is also a very floaty character, which means you can't combo her as well as most other characters. You must not overextend yourself too much when you're going for followups vs. Samus, or you'll eat a NAir to the face. Most of the time it's better to just stay underneath her and juggle her with UAirs.

I play against a friend who mains Samus semi-regularly, and I struggled in the matchup as well. You have to respect Samus' defensive options a lot more than other characters, I feel. She can NAir out of most combo's after a certain percentage and you can't mindlessly approach her without getting crouch-cancelled to death. When I started playing a bit more patient and went for baits a lot more, I noticed I had a much easier time against his Samus. We are at about the same skill-level, but I feel confident against his Samus now.

If you have other difficulties in the matchup, I'd be happy to help you out.
 

Taytertot

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Your opinions on Roy's MU spread in the Community MU chart?
idk if itd be easy to make an opinion of every MU for roy so soon, especially since the 3.6 changes (from the beta and the full release) have effected MU's it may be too soon to say other then a hand full of MUs.
Edit: ok maybe i do have a fair amount of opinions about these MU's hahaha

however i would say that i strongly disagree with charizard being -2 because i think roy destroys charizard. id say DK should be the worst MU on the roy chart for roy i feel.
I think jigglypuff would be even since roy's reverse UpB kills jiggly at 0% if jiggly doesnt DI really well or is on a low ceiling/platform.
Im very curious how link is -2 for roy. link and roy go pretty even or slightly in roy's favor in my experience because roy has much better mobility and combos link really well and should be able to mitigate link's projectiles easily considering that none of them are very fast. Link also doesnt have the moveset to safely poke roy with his sword while roy can easily bait out upB OoS from link or just pressure his shield from a safe distance. As soon as roy gets link in the air its really easy to keep link from landing and take a stock in the process whereas link does not have the same ability to juggle roy forever due to roy's sideB stalls and link's laggy uair.
snake i feel should be in roy's favor. roy combos snake so easily that its kinda gross. snake's grenades are easy to deal with and avoid, roy's sword allows him to win any priority game and snake's recover is really easy for any character with disjoint to beat. If snake tries to sweetspot the ledge its pretty obvious ahead of time so roy can simply grab ledge and drop off and dj with the invincibility to smack him with bair or fair until he cant make it back and if snake recovers high then roy just frame traps him with an uair and then juggles him forever. snake on the other hand doesnt have very safe options to pressure roy and has to rely on punishing roy if roy has somewhat poor spacing.
ganon i feel is slightly in roy's favor because ganon doesnt have great ways of dealing with lots of close range pressure whereas in comparison marth tries to keep others at a distance which works to help ganon in that MU but roy can get in and also juggles ganon more easily then marth does. Roy's dtilt also does amazing work in this MU since ganon only has dair which can be interrupted by flurries of uairs. marth's dtilt on the other hand doesnt give him nearly as much reward against ganon. roy's ftilt also has more range then any of marth's moves so roy can poke at ganon from father away.
 
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X0dus

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however i would say that i strongly disagree with charizard being -2 because i think roy destroys charizard. id say DK should be the worst MU on the roy chart for roy i feel.
I think jigglypuff would be even
I have a lot of Charizard experience and Charizard is really bad for Roy. Roy combo's charizard really well at low, mid, and to a certain extent, high percents but he also struggles to kill him if it isn't on a small stage. You have to either get a read or tech chase into a kill (And he is heavy so your throws are a little slower to act out of). He has huge range and because you rely on the hilt, he can easily space you out and your best option is f-tilt, but its hard to get much off of it from the tip. Charizard also combos the hell out of you and it is hard to get him off of you. His down tilt also makes it very easy to edgeguard you. He is also very strong and does a lot of damage, has multiple jumps, a glide, and a pretty decent up-b. You have to really outplay him to win.

And I've played a lot of Jigglypuff/Roy recently, this is not fun at all. In my opinion, Roys revolves around how well he combos his opponent, can he combo them at high or kill percents, and how well he converts that combo into a kill or kill move. He can't combo Jigglypuff, he struggles to kill her, and he can't combo her into a kill. She has no problem comboing him, she has no problem killing him, and she can combo him into a kill move. You can't challenge her in the air, its hard to approach her, and your only option is to space her out with up-tilt and f-tilt and camp the hell out of her. Yes, you can kill her with up-b, no, that doesn't make the match up any better because that only works if she misses a rest.
 

Taytertot

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I have a lot of Charizard experience and Charizard is really bad for Roy. Roy combo's charizard really well at low, mid, and to a certain extent, high percents but he also struggles to kill him if it isn't on a small stage. You have to either get a read or tech chase into a kill (And he is heavy so your throws are a little slower to act out of). He has huge range and because you rely on the hilt, he can easily space you out and your best option is f-tilt, but its hard to get much off of it from the tip. Charizard also combos the hell out of you and it is hard to get him off of you. His down tilt also makes it very easy to edgeguard you. He is also very strong and does a lot of damage, has multiple jumps, a glide, and a pretty decent up-b. You have to really outplay him to win.

And I've played a lot of Jigglypuff/Roy recently, this is not fun at all. In my opinion, Roys revolves around how well he combos his opponent, can he combo them at high or kill percents, and how well he converts that combo into a kill or kill move. He can't combo Jigglypuff, he struggles to kill her, and he can't combo her into a kill. She has no problem comboing him, she has no problem killing him, and she can combo him into a kill move. You can't challenge her in the air, its hard to approach her, and your only option is to space her out with up-tilt and f-tilt and camp the hell out of her. Yes, you can kill her with up-b, no, that doesn't make the match up any better because that only works if she misses a rest.
Im fairly inclined to believe you on jiggs being bad for roy but i wouldnt say that its that bad. jiggs does have a better aerial game but i disagree about being able to challenge her in the air, roy has a sword and thats going to beat any of her aerials unless roy is trying to get a meaty hilt attack. not to say that roy has a better air game then jiggs but if roy picks his moments carefully he should be able to swat her without trading. characters like jiggs and luigi i feel are MUs where roy does in fact have to switch to a more slow paced tipper game where roy is just trying to tack on bits of damage here and there rather then trying to push in in a MU that doesnt allow for it. once they are at a high enough percent roy has to be patient and try to find safe kill options with ftilt and other large range moves and since jiggs is the lightest character in the game it'll kill at a somewhat more reasonable percent then it would against the rest of the cast. though marth would do this much better and should probably be used instead for jiggs (which even if the roy player doesnt play marth they should be able to handle this MU better considering the similar moveset and better MU vs jiggs).

charizard does combo the hell out of roy but charizard's neutral game is not even close to as good as roy's. roy should be DD camping until charizard attempts to throw out a commitment which roy can then get his combo game going. charizard on the other hand doesnt have a very good DD because his dash is short which doesnt allow him to avoid very much unless his spacing is incredible or his opponents spacing isnt great. I dont think that roy struggles to kill charizard all that much because there are a few pretty easy combos that end in an fsmash that work much more easily against heavy characters at higher percents (uair and dair are the most prominent and straight forward). I also disagree about gettting little off of tipper ftilt, charizard's techs arent very fast and roy has great tech coverage with moves like nair and dtilt. roy can use this to pretty easily box charizard in a corner where roy's tech coverage becomes even more dangerous. I also dont think that charizard's is difficult to edgeguard. his upB is pretty easy to ledgehog and if he tries to recover high then roy just has to uair him since charizard doesnt have enough range on his dair or enough speed in his nair to cover below him. if charizard tries to recover with a glide just above the ground then a well spaced ftilt will beat anything he can do. as far as relying on the hilt goes, i feel this is the wrong way to think about it. using tippers allows roy to punish from a safe distance and setup his opponent to be at a disadvantage on stage space. this allows roy to commit even less while his opponent has to commit even more to get back space. as long as roy keeps poking them towards the ledge they will eventually have to commit to something that allows roy to connect those meaty hilt attacks without needing to endanger himself with an overly aggressive attack. I think that this strategy works particularly well against charizard who doesnt have a whole lot of fast moves with low end lag. even charizard's jab is a little bit on the slow side though it does cover a large distance. charizard also doesnt have any way to deal with tipper ftilt or dtilt on shield because his shield grab doesnt reach and neither does upB OoS and charizard's wavedash is pretty short which allows roy to attack shield with tipper dtilt and keep charizard at a disadvantage if he wavedashes out without having to commit to more then DDing. charizard on the other hand also has safe pokes on shield but charizard cant keep you in shield after throwing an attack out (like tipper dtilt/ftilt) without roy having plenty of time to wavedash out. I agree that charizard can edgeguard roy pretty well though idk if charizard can keep roy from sweetspotting the ledge with dtilt, though i imagine that charizard might be able to use the ending hitbox of nair to catch roy out of his upB for a kill while only taking a couple points of damage. but again i think roy can pretty easily edgeguard charizard as well by just waiting for charizard to setup the spacing of either glide or upB which can be ledgehogged or if charizard glides/uses multiple jumps to recover high then roy just uairs into combos.
 

BoyBloodRoy

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Hey guys, I'm pretty new here and I've been playing PM to get better for the last 3 months. Roy is my main, and I tend to have more trouble against floaties. One of my friends plays Wario and I usually beat him, but its not due to any matchup knowledge that I have. I was wondering if you guys could explain the matchup to me and what to watch for.
 

Taytertot

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Is SideB into FTilt viable against floaties? Sorta like how Marth goes for SideB UTilt in Melee in those MU's?
maybe but i doubt that you'd be able to get it at kill percents so itd only work as a poke if you can get it to work at all. i have gotten roy's sideB into utilt but it seems to only work with bad DI.

Hey guys, I'm pretty new here and I've been playing PM to get better for the last 3 months. Roy is my main, and I tend to have more trouble against floaties. One of my friends plays Wario and I usually beat him, but its not due to any matchup knowledge that I have. I was wondering if you guys could explain the matchup to me and what to watch for.
I cant say that i know this matchup very well but i do know some general stuff about wario. his sideB gets stronger as he travels. he has really amazing aerial momentum shifting so he can zigzag in and out of your range easily from the air. and his attack range is pretty short for a majority of his moves. i unfortunately dont know how roy should approach this matchup as a whole because i dont have much wario experience.
 
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BoyBloodRoy

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I cant say that i know this matchup very well but i do know some general stuff about wario. his sideB gets stronger as he travels. he has really amazing aerial momentum shifting so he can zigzag in and out of your range easily from the air. and his attack range is pretty short for a majority of his moves. i unfortunately dont know how roy should approach this matchup as a whole because i dont have much wario experience.[/quote]


I've been looking around and it doesn't really seem like anyone has any good knowledge on this matchup :/ thanks for the info, tho
 

Taytertot

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I cant say that i know this matchup very well but i do know some general stuff about wario. his sideB gets stronger as he travels. he has really amazing aerial momentum shifting so he can zigzag in and out of your range easily from the air. and his attack range is pretty short for a majority of his moves. i unfortunately dont know how roy should approach this matchup as a whole because i dont have much wario experience.

I've been looking around and it doesn't really seem like anyone has any good knowledge on this matchup :/ thanks for the info, tho[/quote]
yeah if lunchables was on the thread im sure he could give you paragraphs of info on that MU.
 

S£NPAI

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You pretty much want to be mindful of Wario's side b at all times, try to bait it and punish it. All the Wario's around me thrive on side B shinanigans off stage. I think a slow defensive approach is best against Wario. If you can get him off stage, there's not much he can do to get back, I wouldn't rely on grabs that much in this matchup either, seeing as how Wario wants to be close to you.
 

BoyBloodRoy

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You pretty much want to be mindful of Wario's side b at all times, try to bait it and punish it. All the Wario's around me thrive on side B shinanigans off stage. I think a slow defensive approach is best against Wario. If you can get him off stage, there's not much he can do to get back, I wouldn't rely on grabs that much in this matchup either, seeing as how Wario wants to be close to you
What you said about the grabs is very interesting. My grab game is one of my stronger facets right now, so I'll have to be mindful of that when I play Wario. I usually try to outspace the side B's and punish with a grab, same with outspacing his aerials. I also usually tend to shield grab as a punish, but I can see that I should probably do a short hop aerial out of shield. What punishes would you recommend in, say, situations where I would normally punish with a grab?
 
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S£NPAI

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What you said about the grabs is very interesting. My grab game is one of my stronger facets right now, so I'll have to be mindful of that when I play Wario. I usually try to outspace the side B's and punish with a grab, same with outspacing his aerials. I also usually tend to shield grab as a punish, but I can see that I should probably do a short hop aerial out of shield. What punishes would you recommend in, say, situations where I would normally punish with a grab?
If you block side b with your shield that's a free down smash most of the time, Down smash comes out really fast. It's probably the best OoS option besides grab, also d-tilt into Bair out of shield is pretty good at mid percents,

Grab is a good punish option, I was really saying that I wouldn't get grab happy with Wario, He has a close range command grab, waft, and a silly side b, My thoughts are "I need to wall the **** out of this guy" lol. I just think that Wario wants you to play aggressive, since he's such an odd tricky character with his wonky air mobility and Farty doodoo stuff. Not one of my favorite matchups at all.
 
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kevlar14

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What the hell can I do against a Mario. I feel as if he has so many options that just stifle Roy. He's at this weight that doesn't make him optimal to combo, his pills just smother my dash-dancing, his CC-downsmash goes through everything, his N-air gets him out of everything, and his chaingrab is just stupid. What should I be doing? Most Mario's tend to approach with dair into dmash or grab and I don't know what to do against it.
 

S£NPAI

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If he approaches with Dair use side B it's Roys anti air move. I use it all the time and get punishes for days off of people approaching from the air. You don't have to do the full Double edge dance either, one slash can set up into a lot of things.
 

Taytertot

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you should be trying to space mario out more it sounds like. yes mario's pills are annoying and mess up DD to a degree but you should be able to DD under them when they bounce so give yourself a little more space so that you can DD into the area where pills will bounce off the ground and can be DD under. If you feel confident in learning to perfect shield or power shield them thatd help a lot. once/if mario stops using pills so much you can just space out any approach attempt by mario since hes got a pretty short hitbox range and not enough speed to catch you offguard with many approaches.
 

X0dus

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How is the Roy/Kirby match-up? I was thinking using Roy instead of Ike.
 

S£NPAI

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How is the Roy/Kirby match-up? I was thinking using Roy instead of Ike.
It sucks ass, if Kirby gets you off stage all he has to do is avoid your Up b and Bair you, I think Kirby is Roy's worst matchup along with Rob, And Dedede.

Roy can kill Kirby fairly well, but it's really hard to combo him because of his multi jumps, size, and floatiness. High percent Kirbys are annoying to fight. I think Kirby is underrated severely, he has a lot of tools and advantages that other characters have combined into one. Ike is probably a better choice. Link is probably the best swordsman against Kirby though.
 

thechosenjuan

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Roy does fine against Kirby imo, Kirby is at a good combo weight for Roy honestly, nair and fair beat Kirby in the matchup, fsmash and bair are brutal to Kirby because of how easily and quickly they can kill.


Also dthrow to fsmash is broken on kirby
 

S£NPAI

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Roy does fine against Kirby imo, Kirby is at a good combo weight for Roy honestly, nair and fair beat Kirby in the matchup, fsmash and bair are brutal to Kirby because of how easily and quickly they can kill.


Also dthrow to fsmash is broken on kirby
maybe it's just me being salty about all the good Kirbys in my scene. I'm just not keen on the matchup knowledge. I thought they could DI out of Down through Forward smash?
 

X0dus

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I've been struggling with the Falcon match-up, what do you recommend doing?
 

Carlil

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Roy against fast fallers(fox,falco,wolf falcon) is all about the punish. 1 dtilt can practicaly be a 0 to death, so make sure you combo them well. Against falcon, you should space his short hop run nair`s with WD back into dtilt to start up your combos. Once you have stage control and he cant DD like crazy, you can go for grabs which lead to tech chase dtilts or grabs which can grant you kills. you could also get grabs by running backwards from his nair and come back with grab.
 

Taytertot

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ive heard from many roy players that the first hit of sideB is a good way to anti-air falcon since you can continue the sideB combo on hit confirm and then follow up with tech chases.
 

thechosenjuan

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maybe it's just me being salty about all the good Kirbys in my scene. I'm just not keen on the matchup knowledge. I thought they could DI out of Down through Forward smash?

I had a set against Tetraflora, one of the best Kirby's to play the game. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4HCvYZPcYU

She was having an off day, but beating her was one of my first big victories. Idk if watching this can help you figure out things Roy has over Kirby.

Best of luck in the matchup! :D
 

S£NPAI

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I had a set against Tetraflora, one of the best Kirby's to play the game. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4HCvYZPcYU

She was having an off day, but beating her was one of my first big victories. Idk if watching this can help you figure out things Roy has over Kirby.

Best of luck in the matchup! :D
Yo thanks for sharing this I'm gonna study the hell out of it. Rock on R O Y B O Y Z
 

Taytertot

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i usually used jab or dtilt, but side b should work as well. I`ll try that.
jab and dtilt work really well for stuffing grounded approaches but and jab can definitely stuff aerial approaches but sideB's hitbox covers higher up then jab does which might catch falcon if he tries to bait a jab out by short hopping in and then double jumping over the jab. then falcon is above you in hitstun without a double jump.
 

Taytertot

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hey guys i just played a local tourney and found out that all my tech practice over the summer didnt actually get as far as id thought. I got knocked into losers by a melee player who dittoed me first game and then beat my rob as fox then i went up against a zelda main and barely lost as marth so i decided that maybe playing my main would be better but the zelda player three stocked my roy. How do i fight zelda because apparently i dont know what im doing.
 

S£NPAI

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Zelda is all about not letting her set up, and playing a patient yet aggressive game plan. Always be ready to apply pressure, but make sure you bait her. I wouldn't approach from the air, I think F-tilt poking is gonna be your friend here also. Once you get in on her though she has almost no options to stop you. Always play her on a smallish stage too.
 

Taytertot

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Zelda is all about not letting her set up, and playing a patient yet aggressive game plan. Always be ready to apply pressure, but make sure you bait her. I wouldn't approach from the air, I think F-tilt poking is gonna be your friend here also. Once you get in on her though she has almost no options to stop you. Always play her on a smallish stage too.
ok so if she does happen to setup what should my gameplan be? also i find her difficult to combo, what are some good combos to use on her?
 

Smolder

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ok so if she does happen to setup what should my gameplan be? also i find her difficult to combo, what are some good combos to use on her?
One part of your gameplan should be staying in her face at all times. If she sets up, swat the dins away. If you confirm a dtilt, don't focus on comboing her, just focus on keeping her in the air. Her dair has next to no disjoint so spamming uair after she uses her DJ can effectively keep her from landing. If you know a bair will kill, then you can uair --> bair her. Also, Roy cannot effectively CC her. If you run up and crouch, she will fair you, sending you flying across the stage and to your death. If the Zelda knows this, then she will obviously try to space with fair. So your gameplan in this situation would be to run up extra close to her to make her uncomfortable, and shield. She will probably fair your shield and if you shield DI inward, you might be able to confirm a grab. From there, go for either the fthrow or dthrow mixup. That, or you can just go exclusively for dthrow to send her high enough in the air so that you can setup for keeping her there. If you feel like you can't get in on her and she's just spacing you out alot, just ftilit her to let the player know that you can space as well and more importantly, that you have a better spacing tool.
 
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Taytertot

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One part of your gameplan should be staying in her face at all times. If she sets up, swat the dins away. If you confirm a dtilt, don't focus on comboing her, just focus on keeping her in the air. Her dair has next to no disjoint so spamming uair after she uses her DJ can effectively keep her from landing. If you know a bair will kill, then you can uair --> bair her. Also, Roy cannot effectively CC her. If you run up and crouch, she will fair you, sending you flying across the stage and to your death. If the Zelda knows this, then she will obviously try to space with fair. So your gameplan in this situation would be to run up extra close to her to make her uncomfortable, and shield. She will probably fair your shield and if you shield DI inward, you might be able to confirm a grab. From there, go for either the fthrow or dthrow mixup. That, or you can just go exclusively for dthrow to send her high enough in the air so that you can setup for keeping her there. If you feel like you can't get in on her and she's just spacing you out alot, just ftilit her to let the player know that you can space as well and more importantly, that you have a better spacing tool.
thanks i'll practice to make sure that i dont forget and start auto-piloting.
 

Sundark

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I think there's a few posts on it further back in the thread, but generally Roy-GnW boils down to some key bullet points:
- Apply heavy dash dancing to bait things out and find openings
- Abuse your disjoint to out-range him. Sourspot hits work well
- Don't run into his hitboxes when he puts them out
- DI and tech throws (be prepared to do either/both) as best as you can
- DI everything, really
- Respect his Dtilt like crazy (don't approach low percent CC with aerials), but counter with your own
- Swat him with Fairs and box him out with Nairs
- If he goes above you, try to keep him there. Punish poor landing options (Dairs)
- Pay attention to what you're getting off your grabs and try to maximize it
 

BoyBloodRoy

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I think there's a few posts on it further back in the thread, but generally Roy-GnW boils down to some key bullet points:
- Apply heavy dash dancing to bait things out and find openings
- Abuse your disjoint to out-range him. Sourspot hits work well
- Don't run into his hitboxes when he puts them out
- DI and tech throws (be prepared to do either/both) as best as you can
- DI everything, really
- Respect his Dtilt like crazy (don't approach low percent CC with aerials), but counter with your own
- Swat him with Fairs and box him out with Nairs
- If he goes above you, try to keep him there. Punish poor landing options (Dairs)
- Pay attention to what you're getting off your grabs and try to maximize it
wow, thanks a lot. this his pretty much every concern I had.
 

Taytertot

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Seattle, WA
wow, thanks a lot. this his pretty much every concern I had.
to add some random points onto the G&W MU in terms of neutral, he uses bacon to try and cover any SH approaches and dtilt to cover the grounded options so learning to respect and find ways around that is going to be one of your goals in neutral as roy. As dakpo has said many times, he feels that roy beats G&W because roy and G&W have very similar gameplans but roy does them better in this MU (i.e. roy's dtilt and CC game are better then G&W's, roy has a better DD and more range on his moves generally). If you can get G&W to approach you that would be ideal because G&W's main approach tool is bacon and either bair, fair or inching foward with dtilts but for the last option, if he inches forward to get into dtilt range then hes moving into your dtilt range because both characters have very similar horizontal reach with their dtilts and if G&W is the one moving in range of that then you get a free dtilt on him before he can throw out his own.
 
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