I am for Clones in Brawl

[Keige]

I like clones only for the fact that they can allow in more characters.

 

[Ferro De Lupe]

I think that they should have at least 2 characters from each game, even if they have to make the second character a clone. This gives the players a better choice of the characters in their favorite game, and more brawl games would sell. Here are the clones I was thinking:
Yoshi:Birdo
Samus:Zamus (already confirmed)
Ness:Jeff
Samus:Ridley
DK:Diddy
Peach:Toad (kinda a stretch on this one)

The bolded ones would be bad clones... Oh wait!

Birdo lacks Yoshi's tounge.
Zamus dooesn't have Samus' suit (hence why she is called ZERO SUIT.)
I'll give you Ness and Jeff because I don't know Jeff.
Ridley = big reptile with wings. Samus = woman in power suit. HOW the the insanity of the world are they similair enough to be clones?
Diddy is way too small and lacks the physical strength to be a DK clone (not to mention he has his own collection of moves.)
At least you acknowledged that Peach and Toad would be a stretch.

 

[Komayto]

I'll give you Ness and Jeff because I don't know Jeff.

Well, then I will say something about it just for completion's sake or something like that.
How the crap would Ness and Jeff be clones? Jeff cannot even use PSI, he uses bottle rockets and ray guns...

 

[Inferno_blaze]

So that's all of them, none of those could be clones. Don't know what he was thinking when he wrote Samus:Ridley.

 

[MetalLuigi1209]

Well I wasnt really thinking clones at the time, just characters from the same game. I would think the game would be more popular if they had more characters from the same game.

 

[Bowserlick]

The bolded ones would be bad clones... Oh wait!

Birdo lacks Yoshi's tounge.

Birdo would make a fine Yoshi clone. She lacks a tongue but she has a vaccuum mouth and can suck people in. The other moves can easily fit Birdo as well.

 

[FiErCe_oNi]

bah.. clones are kinda just a waste of space. if everyone could be in without problems i wouldnt mind but clones dont really add anhything to the game. there just tweaked versions of other characters and noone would really care if they got rid of a character like dr mario or pichu. im against other forms of characters as seperate characters, i support decloning of characters like falco and ganondorf. ganondorf should not be a clone of c falcon in any way and ganondorf would be a much more popular character with a unique moveset. when half of the roster is filled with clones, it makes the game feel empty, like you didnt get your moneys worth. when i look at the melee roster i think "gee, this game doesnt have as much characters as i thought" because alot of them are clones. i would love ssbb if nearly every character was more unique than the last, that would be my dream game.

 

[OysterMeister]

bah.. clones are kinda just a waste of space. if everyone could be in without problems i wouldnt mind but clones dont really add anhything to the game. there just tweaked versions of other characters and noone would really care if they got rid of a character like dr mario or pichu. im against other forms of characters as seperate characters, i support decloning of characters like falco and ganondorf. ganondorf should not be a clone of c falcon in any way and ganondorf would be a much more popular character with a unique moveset. when half of the roster is filled with clones, it makes the game feel empty, like you didnt get your moneys worth. when i look at the melee roster i think "gee, this game doesnt have as much characters as i thought" because alot of them are clones. i would love ssbb if nearly every character was more unique than the last, that would be my dream game.

Clones aren't a waste of space, because that would imply that the same space could be used for something better. But clones are only added when there isn't time for anything else, so the space they take would have been unused (wasted, even) without them.

Clones add diversity in terms of differing versions of existing movesets and in terms of total character representation.

Ganondorf wouldn't be more popular with a unique moveset, he'd be more popular with a better moveset (although I love him as is). The same way Sheik is more popular than Zelda. It has nothing to do with how unique they are, and everything to do with how well they play.

And, personaly, the clones are proof to me that I DID get my moneys worth. To me, a character as pointless as Dr. Mario just screams that the development team kept working on characters and movesets long after there were no more really good options. They reached a point where they could no longer create a new moveset, and they decided to keep going anyway. That's my moneys worth.

 

[Red Exodus]

I argee. I know this isn't the topic, but I doubt Dark Samus would be as much of a clone as some one like Dr. Mario or Pichu (no offense). Dark Samus could have attacks from MP2 but I doubt Dark Samus has a shot anyway, but I would love to see attacks like the scatter shot and super morph ball charges in SSBB.

 

[Kabyk-Greenmyst]

Clones aren't a waste of space, because that would imply that the same space could be used for something better. But clones are only added when there isn't time for anything else, so the space they take would have been unused (wasted, even) without them.

Clones add diversity in terms of differing versions of existing movesets and in terms of total character representation.

Ganondorf wouldn't be more popular with a unique moveset, he'd be more popular with a better moveset (although I love him as is). The same way Sheik is more popular than Zelda. It has nothing to do with how unique they are, and everything to do with how well they play.

And, personaly, the clones are proof to me that I DID get my moneys worth. To me, a character as pointless as Dr. Mario just screams that the development team kept working on characters and movesets long after there were no more really good options. They reached a point where they could no longer create a new moveset, and they decided to keep going anyway. That's my moneys worth.

I wouldn't say a word if I didn't have to.

 

[NashV]

No need to worry about that. All clones from Melee who make it into Brawl will be given a new moveset. We don't know yet if the new movesets will be entirely unique or luigified yet though.

Not to sound rude but do you have a source on this? I'd like to see where they talked about this

 

[M]

I really agree that clones make a difference in gameplay. However my only problem is Doc. It's not his moveset, it's just that he IS Mario with a lab coat on. If they were going to duplicate him they could use another character's appearance instead of another Mario form ( same kind of goes for young Link technically still BEING Link). But then again, I do remember that Sakurai had time shortages to make the game. I can only hope that they have the time to expand on unique characters even if movesets relate to that of other characters.

 

[FiErCe_oNi]

clones make a difference in gameplay? you know what would make more of a difference in gameplay? unique characters! i dont get how getting a character and editing it slightly to the point that you can tell there is a difference is a good thing...

 

[Ferro De Lupe]

clones make a difference in gameplay? you know what would make more of a difference in gameplay? unique characters! i dont get how getting a character and editing it slightly to the point that you can tell there is a difference is a good thing...

How can clones make a difference, you ask? Best reference possible; Ganondorf and Falcon... THAT'S HOW! Ganondorf focuses on his power, while Falcon focuses on speed. It is IMPOSSIBLE to play Falcon and Ganondorf the same way and expect the same results to happen.

Just as it is impossible to play Doc/Mario/Luigi in the same way. Or Roy/Marth. Or Y. Link/Link. Etc.

Also, making a clone is faster than making an original.

HYPOTHETICALLY:

It takes them four weeks to make/test/etc. to an original character at a non-rused pace.
It takes them one week to tweak a moveset for a clone at a non-rushed pace.
They have three until the development must stop and mass production must begin.
They have two choices...
1) Rush a character and TRY to balance them so they are fair.
2) Use three different skins to put three new characters in the game.

Now tell me, would you honestly want them make a completely un-balanced "god-character" (therefore making him banned at tournaments) because they ran out of time to balance him?

Or would you want three clones who are completely balanced, play differently than the original, add variety, and are fair to play.

Personally, I'd take the clones because...
1) Three character versus one character. Last I checked, three > one.
2) The clones could always come back as original/Luigified characters in future games. (Example, you ask? Luigi, I say!)
3) Representation... (I'll admit, Melee didn't have any that were representing a franchise that wouldn't have been seen otherwise...but it could happen in Brawl.)

 

[FiErCe_oNi]

i would rather have a unique character that 3 filler clones. the amount of time it takes them to make unique characters is their problem, not ours. would you rather have dr mario, pichu and roy over a character like ice climbers and zelda? unique characters are better than 10 clones combines, because clones arent really worth anything. there just tweaked versions of other characters. im for luigifying current clones and getting rid of alternate forms (pichu, dr mario). besides, would you rather have ganondorf as a clone or as a unique character with his own moves? or a luigified c falcon with different b moves at least

 

[Bowserlick]

How can clones make a difference, you ask? Best reference possible; Ganondorf and Falcon... THAT'S HOW! Ganondorf focuses on his power, while Falcon focuses on speed. It is IMPOSSIBLE to play Falcon and Ganondorf the same way and expect the same results to happen.

Just as it is impossible to play Doc/Mario/Luigi in the same way. Or Roy/Marth. Or Y. Link/Link. Etc.

Also, making a clone is faster than making an original.

HYPOTHETICALLY:

It takes them four weeks to make/test/etc. to an original character at a non-rused pace.
It takes them one week to tweak a moveset for a clone at a non-rushed pace.
They have three until the development must stop and mass production must begin.
They have two choices...
1) Rush a character and TRY to balance them so they are fair.
2) Use three different skins to put three new characters in the game.

Now tell me, would you honestly want them make a completely un-balanced "god-character" (therefore making him banned at tournaments) because they ran out of time to balance him?

Your hypothesis is slightly skewed. Rushing a character does not mean it will automatically be "unbalanced." Does it have more potential? Yes. Less testing time generally equals more errors.. But remember, clones have only been added in due to time restraints (Sakurai said so). That means that if they decided to throw in clones, they still won't have much testing time. Clones can be horrible (pichu) or too good (Falco with his insane spike, I doubt they did much testing with that).

So I agree that more clones can be made in an amount of time then an original character. But the Balance factor doesn't pan out.

So it comes basically to mechanics vs flavor.

Are you a guy who prefers a few extra characters with varies stats? Moves look the same, but because they work differently from the original character the cloned character must be played differently.

Or are you a guy who prefers flavor? Sure, Bowser may suck but you might think he has the coolest looking moveset around.

Personally, I am a flavor guy.

 

[shadenexus18]

There are some clones I can tolerate & enjoy to play with (Mario & Luigi cause they are brothers), however, there are some clones are just rushed characters put in the game without they're own personality (Ganondorf a clone of Capt. Falcon). Furthermore, these guys are from totally different game universes (Ganon "Legend of Zelda") (Capt. Falcon "F-Zero") so their is NO way there moves should be identical in the very least ya know what I'm sayin. Period!

P.S: I play well with both C.Falcon and Ganon.

 

[Inferno_blaze]

There are some clones I can tolerate & enjoy to play with (Mario & Luigi cause they are brothers), however, there are some clones are just rushed characters put in the game without they're own personality (Ganondorf a clone of Capt. Falcon). Furthermore, these guys are from totally different game universes (Ganon "Legend of Zelda") (Capt. Falcon "F-Zero") so their is NO way there moves should be identical in the very least ya know what I'm sayin. Period!

P.S: I play well with both C.Falcon and Ganon.

Ganondorf plays awesomely, sure i'd like a unique moveset but I love him in melee.


To the other guy with the charizard avatar, AGAIN, PLEASE READ OR POSTS! We would prefer a unique moveset sure but the point is I'd rather have clone character than not have that character at all, clones are only in because of time constraints, Ganondorf probably wouldn't have even been in melee if he wasn't a clone and al ganondorf fan would've had to wait until brawl before getting him, I really want Ridley in Brawl and if it comes to a point where the developers say, well we don't have enough time to creat a moveset but we can always put him in as a clone then I'd prefer it that way than to have to wait another 7 years for the next ssb. Now do you get what we're saying?

 

[shadenexus18]

That's what I was afraid of. You, me, & a lot of other people are so use to a clone moveset for Ganon that it would be dangerous to change it; for this would most likely effect veterans in tournaments. Either way, people are gonna be upset with Ganon whether Sakurai changes the moveset or not (two outcomes, lets say the moveset is changed, PRO: Ganon is revamped, completely changed around & is no longer predictable. CON: He no longer plays like a clone Falcon like people know and love so they have to get use to em all over again.) See what I'm gettin at. The damage has been done. HAL Laboratories should have never made that clone moveset for Ganon in the first place. Either way you slice it, people are going to be upset whether they change his moveset or not.

 

[FiErCe_oNi]

nvm, you guys sound like you would rather have clones than a unique character and that sounds quire. anyway, im pretty sure ganondorf would have had a unique moveset if he had enough time, there is no way he would have not been in. you know about his sword that you can acces with cheats? its proof that ganondorf would have probably had some unique sword moveset if he had enough time.

 

[shadenexus18]

Yeah, I would have been sorely dissapointed if Melee had been put off any longer than it should have been, but still...a popular reoccuring villian in the Zelda series should have gotten better moves with his fan base & all. Curse time management. Curse it!

 

[Ferro De Lupe]

nvm, you guys sound like you would rather have clones than a unique character and that sounds quire. anyway, im pretty sure ganondorf would have had a unique moveset if he had enough time, there is no way he would have not been in. you know about his sword that you can acces with cheats? its proof that ganondorf would have probably had some unique sword moveset if he had enough time.

What part of "We DO want UNIQUE characters OVER CLONES!" aren't you getting?

Yes, we want clones...but only if the time will not allow for a character(s) to get their own moveset (i.e. Ganondorf). If time only allows one unique or three clones, give me the clones as they add more characters...all of whom can be altered in later additions of the game to be improved.

 

[FiErCe_oNi]

yeah i meant you sounded like that before.............................................................
anyway, i doubt they would run out of developement time and be forced to add ALOT of clones, although they may be forced to add a few.

 

[Inferno_blaze]

nvm, you guys sound like you would rather have clones than a unique character and that sounds quire. anyway, im pretty sure ganondorf would have had a unique moveset if he had enough time, there is no way he would have not been in. you know about his sword that you can acces with cheats? its proof that ganondorf would have probably had some unique sword moveset if he had enough time.

Oh. My. God.

Please, PLEASE actually READ my posts, NOONE has said they want a clone over an original character, before you try to form an arguement please get your head round that (and it's queer, not quire, that'd be pronounced choir). Ganondorf would have had a unique moveset if they'd had enough time but they didn't so they had to make him a clone and I'm glad they did to keep him in, that's what we're saying. He wouldn't have been in if they didn't want to make him a clone as they didn't have time. All shadow was suggesting is that people who play ganondorf are used to his clone moveset and will have to relearn how to play as him, that is all and, personally, I don't think that's a bad thing.


Read before you post next time please.

 

[Kabyk-Greenmyst]

Wow, I don't even want to think how many times we've been over this.

YOU CAN'T PUT A UNIQUE CHARACTER IN FOR A CLONE.
IN FACT, YOU NEED MORE THAN SIX CLONES TO EQUAL THE TIME IT TAKES TO MAKE ONE UNIQUE CHARACTER.

How do I know this? There are six clones in Melee, notice how G-dorf is a clone. This is due to the fact that they didn't have enough time to make him unique, BUT ENOUGH TIME TO MAKE SIX CLONES.

 

[Inferno_blaze]

Exactly, time and space has nothing to do with it. Clones are easy to make, all they have to do is create how they look and edit a few stats and a few stats, it's no way near as big a deal as creating a whole new character.

 

[shadenexus18]

Sakurai & his development team, has a lot of time to spend with SSBB making it basically a "clone free" game that we all can enjoy, but I would not be disapointed in da least (I would be a little sad) if he decided to let some clones stay on da game. That's all.

 

[OysterMeister]

Okay, shadenexus18, I can see that. It would be nice to have a game where every character is unique.
However, for me at least, it would be far nicer to have Brawl come out with every character I'm hoping for. If that can be done, great, more power to Sakurai and the developers, but I wouldn't be dissapointed in the least if some of my personal roster of hopefuls made it in as clones. In fact, I would prefer, nay, DEMAND that the remaining few be put in as clones, if the alternative was that they not be in at all.
ESPECIALLY if all of those clones could be made with the same amount of skill as, say, Ganondorf.

 

[shadenexus18]

Okay, shadenexus18, I can see that. It would be nice to have a game where every character is unique.
However, for me at least, it would be far nicer to have Brawl come out with every character I'm hoping for. If that can be done, great, more power to Sakurai and the developers, but I wouldn't be dissapointed in the least if some of my personal roster of hopefuls made it in as clones. In fact, I would prefer, nay, DEMAND that the remaining few be put in as clones, if the alternative was that they not be in at all.
ESPECIALLY if all of those clones could be made with the same amount of skill as, say, Ganondorf.

Ok, I can agree to those terms. No arguement here (applaudes him for agreeing with me.)

 

[FiErCe_oNi]

ok, i get your point, dont try labelling me as a bad guy. i agree that if they do run out of time (whicj i think they wont), i would be OK with clones rather than less characters. but all im saying is that i'd rather have 1 unique character than any number of clones. i would rather have them spend their last developing time making a single unique character rather than 10 clones. it there a problem with that?

 

[M]

i agree that if they do run out of time (whicj i think they wont), i would be OK with clones rather than less characters. but all im saying is that i'd rather have 1 unique character than any number of clones. i would rather have them spend their last developing time making a single unique character rather than 10 clones. it there a problem with that?

OK, i see where youre coming from. However it is likely that if those clones are from different games and in their own right a well respected character of nintendo already, they, as a group can easily be more popular than that one regular character. Just look at how many people use characters like Falco or Ganondorf as clones?

 

[FiErCe_oNi]

yeh, so what? maybe its because they prefer using a that character because they like it more or they just dont want to use what everyone else is using. falco and ganondorf should at least be luigified (given a few completely different moves). and besides, characters changed from SSB to SSBM, noone complained. its one of those things you have to live with. foxs blaster changed, a few characters got different smash's (for better or worse), noone made a big deal over it. i doubt they would make a big deal if a clone was changed to at least luigi status, im pretty sure they would be glad. sure, i like ganondorf and his move set rocks but i would way prefer him with a few moves of his own.

 

[shadenexus18]

ok, i get your point, dont try labelling me as a bad guy. i agree that if they do run out of time (whicj i think they wont), i would be OK with clones rather than less characters. but all im saying is that i'd rather have 1 unique character than any number of clones. i would rather have them spend their last developing time making a single unique character rather than 10 clones. it there a problem with that?

C'mon bro, no one thinks that your the bad guy. At least, I don't think your the bad guy. Anyway, OysterMeister just put me a good mood for agreeing with me ya know what I'm sayin. On the real, I would settle for 6 clones tops.

 

[wiivolution]

Yeah I really don't mind clones because when I play for fun it's always good to get a theme going for effect. and I can't seem to find a good place to post my wishful thinking for possible characters. True few to none may make it but I still gottsta get it outta my system so here:
Sonic (and any clones from the franchise,Tails, Shadow etc.)
Megaman (and maybe Zero as clone)
Bomberman
Rayman
Wolf o'donnel (and/or Leon clone)
Diddy Kong (or other kongs deemed worthy)
Earthworm jim
Toejam and earl(ice climber style)
Shinobi
Sparkster (from rocket knight adventures)
Vectorman
Cloud (and/or other FF7 Characters)
Banjo-Kazooie
Raichu instead of Pichu
Waluigi (maybe as luigi clone)
Dark Samus

ok sorry about that plz don't hate thank you.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Yeah I really don't mind clones because when I play for fun it's always good to get a theme going for effect. and I can't seem to find a good place to post my wishful thinking for possible characters. True few to none may make it but I still gottsta get it outta my system so here:
Sonic (and any clones from the franchise,Tails, Shadow etc.)
Megaman (and maybe Zero as clone)
Bomberman
Rayman
Wolf o'donnel (and/or Leon clone)
Diddy Kong (or other kongs deemed worthy)
Earthworm jim
Toejam and earl(ice climber style)
Shinobi
Sparkster (from rocket knight adventures)
Vectorman
Cloud (and/or other FF7 Characters)
Banjo-Kazooie
Raichu instead of Pichu
Waluigi (maybe as luigi clone)
Dark Samus

ok sorry about that plz don't hate thank you.

More then the half of the characters you mentoined can EASLY have an unique moveset.
And Cloud or any other FF7 characters just shouldn't be in Brawl at all... >_>

 

[Red Exodus]

Yeah I really don't mind clones because when I play for fun it's always good to get a theme going for effect. and I can't seem to find a good place to post my wishful thinking for possible characters. True few to none may make it but I still gottsta get it outta my system so here:
Sonic (and any clones from the franchise,Tails, Shadow etc.)
Megaman (and maybe Zero as clone)
Bomberman
Rayman
Wolf o'donnel (and/or Leon clone)
Diddy Kong (or other kongs deemed worthy)
Earthworm jim
Toejam and earl(ice climber style)
Shinobi
Sparkster (from rocket knight adventures)
Vectorman
Cloud (and/or other FF7 Characters)
Banjo-Kazooie
Raichu instead of Pichu
Waluigi (maybe as luigi clone)
Dark Samus

ok sorry about that plz don't hate thank you.

They could all easily have their own movesets

Sonic's moveset could incorporate some moves from Sonic Battle(GBA), they other suck, yes that includes shadow, if Sonic gets in he should be alone.

Zero could easily have a different moveset, he has a sword, a boomarang, a hookshot (I think) and a gun, it would be harder to make him a clone than to give him a moveset.

I don't really like raymon, I don't know what he can do.

Wolf has a high possibility of being a clone, but I doubt he will be one if he's in, Brawl can be delayed, unlike Melee could.

Diddy Kong is too small to be a clone of DK he wouldn't be able to lift other characters like DK can and he can't do the ground slap or headbutt, he would need a moveset of his own.

I hate Earthworm Jim so I have nothing to say about him.

I don't know who toejam and earl are.

I don't know Shinobi either.

I don't know Sparkster

I don't know Vectorman

Cloud would not fit in Brawl, I like him but I just can't see him in Brawl.

I don't know Banjo-Kazooie

Hell no to Raichu, we saw how bad Pichu was we don't need another Pikachu clone.

The funniest person on your list in Waluigi, he would be a clone of a clone. That just doesn't make any sense no matter how you look at it.

Dark Samus can easily have it's(we don't know if it's a he or a she, hell we don't even know if it's human) own moveset. Play Metroid Prime 2 to he end, and you will see what I mean.

 

[Inferno_blaze]

We know it's not human and we know that half of those characters shouldn't be in and that any character could have its own moveset, I want clones so that they can put in characters that they normally wouldn't have time for.

 

[xTOXNx]

I am for clones, the more characters, the better in my opinion.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[F8AL]

The more, the better, I say.

 

[Fletch]

That's right, you read the title correctly, I'm pro-clones for smash bros brawl.
Seriously, I think clones have gotten a bad wrap, and people are unfairly prejudiced against them. I'm hoping I can change a few minds.

The argument seems to be that clones take away from the variety of the gameplay, however, I believe this to be a fundamentaly erronious opinion. I believe that clones, in truth, ADD variety to gameplay, both in terms of the movesets they provide and the characters they represent..

First off, clones spice up gameplay by adding diversity to movesets. Link too slow? Young Link has the speed you need. Falcon too erratic? Ganondorf has the stability you want. Mario just too plain? Slap a lab coat on him, and bring the pain. Some people just can't play some charactes because the movesets just don't 'work' for them. Clones offer another chance to play with the same moveset. And clone characters that are near-identical to their counterparts have their place too. I'd much rather fight Fox and Falco, or Mario and Dr. Mario, than have to face off against two Foxs or two Marios. It just wouldn't be as fun.

Clone characters also spruce up character choice by allowing characters who otherwise wouldn't have made it into the lineup. Because make no mistake, a character that makes it as a clone ONLY made it because they were a clone. And honestly, if it comes down to having a character, or NOT having a character, I choose to have that character, even if they're a clone. It also increases the odds of long-shot characters. For example, I'd love to see dark samus in the game, but it's not likely to happen. But having Dark Samus in the game as a clone? Now that I can see happening.
Besides, clones can always be given new, unique movesets in a later game.

So in general, lets be nicer to the clones, alright? They may not look it, but they pull their weight around, and no matter how much time brawl spends in development, I can practically guarantee it could be made better with a few clones.

Amen, couldn't agree more, I don't know why everyone is always hating on the clones... hell, it seems like someone always has their favorite between a certain popular two (Fox and Falco). People really need to start realizing that clones simply equals more characters, and the more, the merrier.