I am actually Glad that Ganondorf is still a semi-clone.

[Kamiko]

Just saying, Ganondorf could EASILY keep the same overall playstyle with a new moveset. Armed or empty-handed.

magic and fist-orientated to give him that overwhelming power and corruption from Demise's influence. Toon Ganon would be more swords-based since of the Ganondorfs, he's the one furthest away from Demise, but still tethered due to the curse.

Ganondorf was raised by a pair of mischievous witches. I don't think Demise is why he uses magic. And all three Ganondorfs we've seen so far are the exact same person. They're all equally 'connected' to Demise.

 

[Sykkamorre]

I personally would've enjoyed an Iron Tager sort of mechanic where he could suddenly drag characters towards him.

Sod tennis, let Ganon play squash with his opponents.

 

[Ffamran]

Just saying, Ganondorf could EASILY keep the same overall playstyle with a new moveset. Armed or empty-handed.


Ganondorf was raised by a pair of mischievous witches. I don't think Demise is why he uses magic. And all three Ganondorfs we've seen so far are the exact same person. They're all equally 'connected' to Demise.

I was talking more about Twilight Princess Ganondorf being demonic and a madman compared to a scheming evil wizard in Ocarina of Time, a classic "I'm the bad guy" in the early Zelda games, and an enlightened extremist in Wind Waker. Demise never really used magic aside from using lightning, but Twilight Princess Ganondorf resembles him the most in wanting power for the pure sake of it and his cruel, amoral attitude, and desire for revenge. Early Ganondorf was more of the usual, run-of-the-mill villain who took over the world and bad stuff happens so, the hero has to save the day and the end. Ocarina of Time Ganondorf was more like the devious adviser who usurps the kingdom so he can be king, but somehow he ended up wrecking the world probably because he is Demise's reincarnation. Wind Waker Ganondorf is the furthest away in that after being trapped for centuries, he found himself and became less of Demise's hatred incarnated and more of a man who wanted a better world for his people and assuming so, everyone else, however, he's an extremist who wants to restore Hyrule to its former glory rather than create a better world as it is now. Considering he's still cursed by Demise, it wouldn't be likely he could collaborate with Link and Zelda to make a better world.

There's also another Ganondorf who isn't the same person, but a reincarnation after the original Ganondorf dies. I don't remember which game it is - I just looked it up and it's the Four Swords Adventures Ganondorf according to canon timeline.

 

[Kamiko]

I was talking more about Twilight Princess Ganondorf being demonic and a madman compared to a scheming evil wizard in Ocarina of Time, a classic "I'm the bad guy" in the early Zelda games, and an enlightened extremist in Wind Waker. Demise never really used magic aside from using lightning, but Twilight Princess Ganondorf resembles him the most in wanting power for the pure sake of it and his cruel, amoral attitude, and desire for revenge. Early Ganondorf was more of the usual, run-of-the-mill villain who took over the world and bad stuff happens so, the hero has to save the day and the end. Ocarina of Time Ganondorf was more like the devious adviser who usurps the kingdom so he can be king, but somehow he ended up wrecking the world probably because he is Demise's reincarnation. Wind Waker Ganondorf is the furthest away in that after being trapped for centuries, he found himself and became less of Demise's hatred incarnated and more of a man who wanted a better world for his people and assuming so, everyone else, however, he's an extremist who wants to restore Hyrule to its former glory rather than create a better world as it is now. Considering he's still cursed by Demise, it wouldn't be likely he could collaborate with Link and Zelda to make a better world.

There's also another Ganondorf who isn't the same person, but a reincarnation after the original Ganondorf dies. I don't remember which game it is - I just looked it up and it's the Four Swords Adventures Ganondorf according to canon timeline.

You probably shouldn't be comparing him to Demise based on how he acts in one particular game. Because these three Ganondorfs are the same person, any personality differences are the result of different ages and experiences. With that in mind, TP Ganondorf is the closest to his OoT incarnation. The game may not have detailed him as well as the other two, but he's certainly not any more of a madman or less of a schemer. Really though, Demise was pretty calm. If anything, WW Ganondorf is the most similar to him, but even than he still had his moments of craze.

With that said, Ganondorf's Wind Waker speech wasn't explaining why he was still fighting for control, but rather why he started. By the time he revealed that information though, the only reason he was still trying was because he's stubborn. The king points this out after the battle, stating that he was unwilling to let go of the past and that they were similar in that regard.

FSA Ganondorf was only shown after his Ganon transformation, and you didn't seem to be including that form in your comparisons, so I left that out. But yes, that Ganondorf was of a new life.


I'm getting a little carried away here, but the short version is that Ganondorf's current moveset doesn't reflect Demise at all, but it really has no reason to anyway. Regardless, his moveset should NOT be influenced by which game his design is taken from.

 

[BlitznBurst]

I'm still pretty disappointed that he's pretty much a generic brawler when the actual Ganondorf is anything but, but at least he isn't the worst character in the game this time.

 

[Spinosaurus]

Well at the time of Melee all Ganondorf did was shoot out magic balls and slam the ground with his fist. Oh and transform into Ganon. Being a clone wasn't really that unwarranted.
Now the real argument is if he should have changed by the time of Brawl, but I honestly consider his Brawl moveset a very good idea on paper in making Clonedorf a unique character, but it was executed poorly. Let's wait and see for Smash 4.

Either way, he has a fun moveset, so that's all that matters to me. I don't really give a crap if a character in a fighting game is faithful to the source material or not, anyway, so long as their moveset is well designed, which I honestly think Brawl Dorf just needs some tweaks to be exactly that. (See: Project M Ganondorf.)

 

[Khao]

I honestly think he could be made a lot more Ganondorf-y with just a few changes to his current moveset.

Up B and Down B are the moves I want gone the most, because I just can't picture Ganondorf doing either of them in a Zelda game, they're just too goofy and silly.

Most of his standards moves are fine. Not great, but fine. Like, they're stuff that Ganondorf could perfectly do, but I don't think they'd actually be their first choice. But they're nowhere near being unnacceptable. It's just his Up and Down Bs that I just hate in every way.

If they gave him a sword, I wouldn't even want him to use it for every move, or even the majority. Punching and kicking is fine. Enhancing physical attacks with magic is awesome. Sword slashes are cool and make sense. I basically would have liked a moveset that combines those three, and you can do that with just a few changes to what he currently has.

 

[Ffamran]

You probably shouldn't be comparing him to Demise based on how he acts in one particular game. Because these three Ganondorfs are the same person, any personality differences are the result of different ages and experiences. With that in mind, TP Ganondorf is the closest to his OoT incarnation. The game may not have detailed him as well as the other two, but he's certainly not any more of a madman or less of a schemer. Really though, Demise was pretty calm. If anything, WW Ganondorf is the most similar to him, but even than he still had his moments of craze.

With that said, Ganondorf's Wind Waker speech wasn't explaining why he was still fighting for control, but rather why he started. By the time he revealed that information though, the only reason he was still trying was because he's stubborn. The king points this out after the battle, stating that he was unwilling to let go of the past and that they were similar in that regard.

FSA Ganondorf was only shown after his Ganon transformation, and you didn't seem to be including that form in your comparisons, so I left that out. But yes, that Ganondorf was of a new life.


I'm getting a little carried away here, but the short version is that Ganondorf's current moveset doesn't reflect Demise at all, but it really has no reason to anyway. Regardless, his moveset should NOT be influenced by which game his design is taken from.

Mine's more about Demise's influence since he cursed Link's and Zelda's reincarnations with his hatred; Ganondorf is Demise's hatred incarnated. Twilight Princess Ganondorf's takes that hatred to an extreme considering what he experienced. He wasn't given a chance to do anything and was ratted out. Facing execution and all of his dreams crushed, he definitely became enraged. He didn't change as much from Ocarina since he wasn't trapped for centuries; he just wanted revenge and a chance to rule again. He gets that chance, but can now rule the Twilight Realm as well.

Nothing about his personality, but more about Ganondorf being a incarnation of (Demise's) hatred as Link is the incarnation of a hero and Zelda is Hylia incarnated. This is more like the Avatar from Avatar: The Last Airbender and The Legend of Korra where each Avatar is different, but they are still the incarnation of light and balance.

As for Four Swords Adventures Ganondorf, I won't comment on stuff that I know very little about.

Anyway, I don't know how this discussion started, I remember only commenting that regular Ganondorf could represent the magical and power. Even as a semi-clone, Ganondorf has that feeling of power, but magic does offer ranged capabilities and it would have been nice if Ganondorf had a ranged move, but it's not really necessary since Ganondorf's powerful enough and as Melee's and SSB4's version of him shown, fast enough to keep pace without falling severely behind like in Brawl. Toon Ganon would have worked well as a sword-wielding Ganondorf and out of the Toon characters, the most difficult to be a clone since Toon Link and Toon Zelda are just Toon versions of Link and Zelda while Toon Ganon dual-wields and no other Ganondorf has shown that ability yet. It also doesn't help that Link shows the ability to wield almost any weapon and power.

 

[Kamiko]

Anyway, I don't know how this discussion started, I remember only commenting that regular Ganondorf could represent the magical and power.

You said that it fit because of Demise's influence. I disagreed.

 

[grizby2]

and here I was thinking he would at least LOOK different....

 

[AgentHX]

I'm glad he is too, especially after using his awesome Warlock Punch-esque move in Hyrule Warriors. Seriously. It's like they're trying to tie Ganondorf's Smash moveset into an actual Zelda appearance, and I love it so much.

 

[The Pizza Guy]

It's like they're trying to tie Ganondorf's Smash moveset into an actual Zelda appearance, and I love it so much.

Now why the heck can't they do that with Cap- oh wait F zero is dead.
If this keeps up soon Captain Falcon will be considered clone

 

[Merkabo]

Captain never dies!

 

[Ffamran]

Now why the heck can't they do that with Cap- oh wait F zero is dead.
If this keeps up soon Captain Falcon will be considered clone

That and Captain Falcon's move set was completely made up; his move set was from the early drafts for a game that would later become Super Smash Bros. -- it was supposed to be it's own game until intervention from someone or something.

Of the characters used for SSB 64, Captain Falcon was probably hardest to give a move set since he wasn't like Link who had his various and iconic gear, Mario who had iconic moves, and Samus who had her arm cannon aka "Shooting-Dead Things". Captain Falcon was just the muscular racer who supposedly bounty hunts during the off-seasons of F-Zero. Yeah.

At least with Ganondorf, there were some things to draw from like he's evil so lets give him Jedi, lightning powers and purple flames or how his games featured him fighting, yes, fighting with more that a simple trident swat or Dead Man's Volley. Ganondorf showed impressive sword-fighting and martial arts skills in Wind Waker, Twilight Princess, to an extent Skyward Sword, and Hyrule Warriors which combined every Ganondorf's powers and capabilities into one. Backed with magical prowess shown in the 2D games, Ganondorf has a visible move set. The only issue was time and that's the main reason he's a clone in Melee.

 

[Morbi]

and here I was thinking he would at least LOOK different....

He does have his Sacred Sword scar at the very least! That is different enough for me.

 

[Ffamran]

and here I was thinking he would at least LOOK different....

Well, Sheik looks more muscular so she looks more androgynous compared to Brawl where she had a drop-dead gorgeous figure, but is more feminine-looking than in Melee where her model was based entirely on Ocarina of Time. Oh, and she has a new stance like Link.

Ganondorf has his scar which I don't think appeared all the time in Twilight Princess, but is a neat touch. Also, I think he's a bit leaner from what his concept render shows.

Link, well, I think his pants are a bit baggier and his face and eyes on the Wii U edition looks, well, awkward to say the least compared to the lean and mean face he's got for the concept render and icon; and on the 3DS.

Toon Link can't really change that much since his design is cartoony like how you can't do much to Mario or Luigi aside from texture changes. If they gave him his train operator outfit or pajamas, then he'd at least have a different look.

Zelda looks like the same old Zelda from Twilight Princess and Brawl except she looks paler and slightly greener sort of like her possessed self in Twilight Princess, but I'm going to say lighting is the cause of that since Big Boss's beard showed gray during night time sequences when Ground Zeroes was first unveiled.

 

[The Pizza Guy]

Me? I'm just glad the Sparta Kick is back.
@ Ffamran and @ Merkabo you both bring up good points.

 

[bigbro2233]

If he were to receive a new moveset, I'd like that he keep his old moveset too. Kind of like how Samus can change Beams in Project M, but with the sword taunt for Ganondorf.

I really like playing as Ganondorf, but it is strange how his vanilla moveset edits so many moves from Captain Falcon. Ganondorf especially, he has plenty of unique moves in the game.

At least Ganondorf's Final Smash isn't the Blue Falcon.

 

[mangamusicfan]

I love how hè is.
I don't need a New moveset

 

[Jiggsbomb]

My friend who is a long time g dorf main. He mained him in and in . He is also maining him in smash 4. He said that smash 4 ganondorf is almost better than in melee. What do you ganondorf mains think of that statement?

 

[Merkabo]

Easily. Those custom moves are really strong if you use them correctly. Flame Chain's range is more than that of a dodge roll, and its got a constant hitbox. Its a really great tool to use just as someone dodges as they'll almost always take damage when coming out of the roll. There's also the range of his Warlock Blade, which people keep miscalculating. Many make the mistake of trying to block against it, but if you land the attack on the tip, it destroys nearly the entire shield. Then... there's his Dark Fists Up B which I've got to kill at 70%

Basically the point is, at least with custom moves, he's a crazy beast.

 

[Shogger]

I love Falcondorf because he's what a clone character should be. He's not just a reskin of CF with 1 or 2 different moves, every bit of his kit accentuates his dramatically different playstyle. It's a true reimagining of Captain Falcon's moveset, put on an awesome badass villain that just fits. So. WELL with the heavy-hitter punisher style.

 

[mangamusicfan]

I love Falcondorf because he's what a clone character should be. He's not just a reskin of CF with 1 or 2 different moves, every bit of his kit accentuates his dramatically different playstyle. It's a true reimagining of Captain Falcon's moveset, put on an awesome badass villain that just fits. So. WELL with the heavy-hitter punisher style.

I can't agree more

 

[warionumbah2]

My friend who is a long time g dorf main. He mained him in and in . He is also maining him in smash 4. He said that smash 4 ganondorf is almost better than in melee. What do you ganondorf mains think of that statement?

I agree, he takes hits well and has a really good combo: Flame chock ---> Down tilt ----> F tilt(for some characters)

His F tilt is a blessing from God good edge guard tool and high killing potential and priority, his up air is amazing his Wizard foot on ground is a good surprise attack.

He's slow but he's a monster more so than Bowser.

 

[Jiggsbomb]

I agree, he takes hits well and has a really good combo: Flame chock ---> Down tilt ----> F tilt(for some characters)

His F tilt is a blessing from God good edge guard tool and high killing potential and priority, his up air is amazing his Wizard foot on ground is a good surprise attack.

He's slow but he's a monster more so than Bowser.

Ahh, ok. Thanks for the insight!

 

[SmashBro99]

*Sees title*

I guess none of the Zelda fans who played him in Smash would be lost. I should send Sakurai a copy of Hyrule Warriors, as I doubt he's ever played a Zelda game and they have Ganondorf as he should be.

 

[Waluigi is too big]

I get annoyed when people complain about Ganondorf's moves.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

Ganondorf has never been above using hand to hand combat though, as this concept art suggests.

Also, in his fight in OoT he charges his fist with magic and punches the floor below you, so the idea for Warlock Punch/Fair probably came from this. After all, one of the characteristics of the Triforce of Power is super human strength, so I think they made him in such a way in Smash to reflect that aspect.
In TP he kills the water sage by strangling him (this is the basis for his Side B, Flame Choke) and in his fight he occasionally Sparta kicks you.