Hypothetically speaking, we will pretend Nintendo is not brain dead.

[Fletch]

Melee is the most competitive fighting game in history?

There's too much fail in the OP for me to even pick it apart because pretty much 95% of what's in it is pure fail.

My exact feelings.

 

[tense]

I personally like more randomness in battles. I'm a proponent of items being used in tournaments and items being on (at a reasonably low rate). People ban them because they get in the way of their strategies. Well, have other ones. Be prepared to take advantage of surprises, and to recover from the nasty ones. Randomness means the same people won't always win, making competitions a lot less static. That's just my opinion, flame it as you will.

 

[Kazuya]

To be fair, it wasn't a business strategy, it was just due to the fact the game was getting tooo competitive and not fun. Mean comon, when people spoke about Melee, they'd think 'Ken, Azen, Husband' and etc...... Not... 'OMG, Melee! SO MUCH FUN'

The game got too serious, the fun was pretty much sucked dry after the first few years.

Nintendo don't know about the AT's, Sakurai's DEVELOPMENT team do! An they've took them out for many reasons, not because it was a business strategy to sell more copies, but because they felt it was better for the game.

Why would Nintendo think 'Advanced Techniques & Newcomers'? ATs take time to learn and master, a newcomer isn't buying the game thinking about the advanced techniques, he's buying it cuz he wants to kick Pikachu's ***.

Do you get it? Taking out the ATs doesnt mean Brawl will appeal to a wider audience, it just makes the game more fun and less serious.

(I personally don't enjoy Brawl all too much cuz L-Cancelling has been taken out) but its still good.

Also, **** You to all the ***gots that wanted a 'long hard singleplayer' to satisfy them. Becuz it's their fault Brawl has less than 40 characters and not a HUGEEEE amount of stages because the production for the SSE took 2 and a half years. Whilst Character production was really only a total of 16 months...

 

[f1r3 3mbl3m]

Okay, this is really confusing. The first post made no sense at all, he was ranting on about something i couldn't understand. But from what I've seen, it's about the Advanced Techniques. So they took out wavedashing and L-canceling. GET OVER IT. So they added a tripping function. GET OVER IT. So you think Nintendo is a bunch of things my mom would slap me for if i said out loud. GET OVER IT. Brawl is about having fun, so just take it easy, and play the game. There's no need to get worked up about it. Just have fun, that's what Nintendo wanted you to do in the first place. That's why everyone stayed up all night for it's midnight release. That's why everyone was up until noon trying to get through that stupid Subspace Emissary. THAT'S WHY WE BOUGHT THE GAME. So go grab your wii, stick the disk in there, and play.
Thank you for listening to my rant, and have a nice day.

 

[firexemblemxpryde]

Alright, uh.. since you seem to have ignored my last post...

Your position, I guess, is a little more clear. You think tripping was implemented because Nintendo just wanted to be jerks? I think the likelihood of that is pretty low.

Also, you think we're premature in saying that tripping is not a good thing because we don't know enough about the game yet? I don't believe so. I think it's implications are pretty clear, and our certainty that it's random is very high, as well. A random penalty should not be enforced for an action as simple and basic as general ground movement. I don't really need to know every programming detail about Brawl to know that that's a silly thing to do. Even things like "sometimes this move will fail" could be forgiven in some cases, but something as ridiculous as "sometimes your character forgets how to walk" are over the top. It introduces luck into the most basic action of the game, which deteriorates the importance of skill on every level.

L-cancelling wasn't exactly "hidden" either, and the idea that Nintendo intentionally programmed some "secret, ub3r" technique into the game is considerably far fetched. The development of advanced techniques isn't a game of hide and seek. They're not easter eggs. Also, you make it sound as if this theoretical AT was the end-all-be-all move, which would be incredibly stupid. The existence of ATs doesn't break a game, and none of them individually should, either.

In a game with any physics engine, there are often oversights in the engine that can be used to produce different results thank expected. These oversights will always exist, but their practical application may not always be immediately evident or even notable at all. The idea that there is some magical, secret hadoken waiting for us to find it, intentionally hidden somewhere in the game's code is just silly.

While I agree that we don't know everything there is to now about Brawl yet, and that new ATs are likely to appear in time, I don't have any reservations saying that Brawl is clearly a considerably more shallow game than Melee. The fact that new ATs might still be discovered doesn't give cause to make blanket dismissals of current analyses of the game. Also, when Melee came out, there weren't nearly as many people immediately concerned with searching out ATs. There weren't nearly as many people investigating every possible facet of the physics engine in an attempt to find new ATs. People weren't looking as hard at the start of Melee's release. Nowadays, people are. I don't claim that we've learned everything there is to learn, by any means, but the mere possibility of the existence of ATs not discovered doesn't allow you to make wild and unfounded claims that Brawl will certainly be as competitively deep as Melee was.

By removing ATs they stand to gain more money then they lose.

Competitive players who won't buy the game simply because wavedashing/lcancelling aren't in the game equal to about 5 people in the entire world.

The amount of casuals who fall in love with the smash series because of how easy it is to pick up will more than compensate for that loss. More casual = more money.

IMO we're not going to find anything even remotely game breaking in the coming years.

Why?

Because the smash community now is exponentially larger and much more well informed about what makes a competitive game. Melee just had a few people from 64 who knew about z-cancelling. Brawl has probably already been pushed very close to its competitive limits in relation to how far melee got pushed in one month.

Is it possible for Brawl to be competitive because of new discoveries?? Yes. Very. Probable? Nope. We have no evidence to indicate that it will and a whole lot of evidence to indicate that Nintendo went the extra mile when trying to make it so that the casuals could compete with the competitives.

To reiterate, removing wavedashing/Lcancelling was probably a good business decision. Getting owned online the first time you play the game by competitive players using all these advanced techniques would really turn anyone off of a game (Nintendo's theory).

Thread over, please. Thanks for your intelligence and input.

Original poster, you are quite bright but you are also cynical to the point where it detriments your flow of thought.

 

[Micahc]

The prose and witty metaphors in the original post where comparable with poetry.

 

[Xeris]

I have nothing to say...

 

[ThaRoy]

Anyone who looks at the OP as anything more than drunk, or extremely confused, or schizophrenic needs to leave. This is just random flip-flopping rants. All that is. His point is too vague for any human but himself to figure out.

o.o for the record I am a schizo <3

And yeah...*laughs* I came. I saw. I troll'd. Apparently I fail to much so yeah...I'll let you all "rip me apart" and amuse yourself by either stating I fail too much to pick apart...or if your the ones who are picking me apart =D

Edit- To firexemblemxpryde: Thanks! That means a lot <3 I agree, I am exactly what you said. For the record, this is not sarcasm. I agree with this man.

 

[TheManaLord]

OP, although trying to sound smart and sophisticated, simply failed.

Complete fail.

 

[ssbbFICTION]

In a response from an argument throughout the thread:

IMO, brawl is JUST as competitive as melee. You have to realize that just because the techiness of L-cancelling was removed, there is much more strategy involved in this game. Instead of just teching around trying to get in hits and be faster than your opponent with only a few broken characters (some people were different such as gimpyfish and I applaud them for that), in Brawl you actually have to use some strategy. The game is more defensive, so you need to be able to shield attacks and dodge more effectively. You need to exploit EVERY SINGLE move of your character to defeat your opponent. YOu can spam them to weaken them and increase their combo potential, or you can save them to KO someone. Because of the more defensive/strategic nature of the game, more than a few characters are popular. The game is balanced to the point that ANY character in the game can be used well if someone sets there mind to it.

Just my opinion. Hope some others agree.

 

[Doomblaze]

I agree with you SSBB fiction, well said ^^

 

[MartinGM1983]

9 years ago a game was released that shocked the gaming culture, Super Smash Bros. Released on the Nintendo 64, this game dominated and showed how basic the mechanics of the fighting genre could be to formulate such advanced strategies. People were shocked and in love. 2 years later it's predecessor Melee was released, using new ideas and concepts. Over time people began to exploit accidental flaws (if I say glitch people get so defensive...apparently glitch offends more people then calling people racial slurs -_-) in the game and rocked the competitive scene. 7 years later, Brawl is released.

Alright, now that you know what has been happening, time to actually think. After a 7 year obsession with Melee, tournaments being held everywhere, people making a living off of playing Melee, and the fact that these exploited flaws lead to all of it...you'd think Nintendo would realize this? Now, let's pretend that we exist in a world where everyone's intelligence was not rivaled by the living cells I expell when ejaculating and pretend that Nintendo took note of this. Do you honestly think that on a console where hardcore games were being lacked, they would purposely release one of the most anticipated games of all time to completely lack all of the elements that lead Melee to being so successful? Do you honestly think that because YOU have yet to find them, that they do not exist? Honestly people, wake the f-ck up.

People are b1tching left and right about tripping...yes moron Nintendo installed a component to completely eliminate one of the most popular social aspects of THE WHOLE F-CKIN' GAMING CULTURE that used an entropic variable to stunt the gameplay... The sequel to THE MOST COMPETITIVE GAME OF ALL TIME was PURPOSELY designed to prevent the very scenario's... Wow...just wow. I shall condemn you all.

Seriously, wake up and learn buisness strategy. I am not even old enough to be able to take buisness related classes (or perhaps my highschool doesn't offer them...or maybe I dropped out...or maybe I am really a criminal convicted of rap3 upon young infants and then selling videos of my actions on an illegal internet p0rn ring) and I am able to see the flaws in this. Look at the aspects included in Brawl...their are f-ckin' free trials to video games included! Think it was as easy as canoodleing their noodles and then the magical liquid formulates all of the coding!? NO IDIOTS IT REQUIRES TIME AND EFFORT AND MONEY! So yeah...more unlockables = more money... so they are going to eliminate one of the most competive aspects of gaming culture thus resulting in loss of money and thus losing buisness, crediability, and a fan base. Wow, can't believe you shattered their bulletproof plans.

You all "elevate bull**** to an artform" -Maddox

kthxbai

Synopsis please ^^

 

[Hitzel]

I'm a Halo 1 fan. I know first hand what it's like to have a developer take what its hardcore fans love in a game and completely destroy it (to sell the game to the masses). I've never played Smash 1 or 2 competitively, but I still respect and sympathize with people upset over Brawl's lack of depth, completive potential, etc., even though I can't appreciate it directly.

And despite that, I still think the OP is being a douche.

 

[NoVaLombardia]

Appealing to the casual gamer? what is this an online game with a monthly subscription? The non-casuals are gonna cancel their subscription and not shell out any more money?

*checks wallet*

OWAIT!!!

 

[kario_mart]

finallly! brawl is a good game! melee is too! melee just is more dominating (does that make sense?)

 

[J0K3R]

finallly! brawl is a good game! melee is too! melee just is more dominating (does that make sense?)

From a competitive standpoint yes, but from a casual perspective no. SSB was intended to be casual oriented in the first place. When they made 64, they had no idea how deep it was going to be, i hope the same for brawl.

 

[Crappular]

I love how the TC quotes Maddox in what is basically a giant cry-fest of a post. lulz irony

 

[LouisLeGros]

From a business stand point the competitive crowd is the least important crowd to focus on. They buy the game no matter what and the new gameplay attracts an even larger casual crowd then ever before.


Gaining tons of new consumers at the cost of a few pissed off fans is far from a brain dead business mistake. Nintendo don't care about the competitive scene around any of their games. If you want a company that does that look at Blizzard or something.

 

[Rampage]

Well this was a waste of my less than precious time.

 

[Sour]

I created this acct just to say this quote.

"The OP is as bad as your mind can comprehend"

thank you, and have a good day.

 

[bbbensen]

Well, that was a confusing wall o' text.

I dont think that many people got what you said..... Including me.

 

[Ørion]

I'm sure with the inclusion of a new physics engine there will be many new glitches to figure out, dont worry, once the meta-game gets seriously started, they will turn up.

 

[Banjodorf]

i don't know what to think of these boards any more...

I agree with this statement.

 

[bigafromusclekid]

Okay, first off. The game has been out since January. Actually, it would be better fitted in the February category, because it came out so late. I'd say about 80% of the people who posted has played the Japanese version for a good 10 hours. So in other words, people are making up bull about a game that has been released to the public for only 2 months. Just play it. Stop trying to make it what it isn't, and just have fun with it.

Secondly, if you don't like the game, don't post threads talking about how much it sucks and how it isn't as good as another completely different game. We all are dealing with it. At the beginning of Melee, people talked about how the game was ruined, and how there weren't going to be sweet combos, but 7 years later, people are praising Nintendo for making the competitive game. Now, we're complaining not because the game is worse than melee, but that we can't do the same exact combos as in melee, and the fact that bowser isn't crap.

Don't be emo, and don't talk about something you don't know. The truth is, nobody knows anything about this game yet.

 

[Aptera]

I agree. some depth was taken out of this game, and it's slower.... and characters got NERFED WTFZZZ

 

[Psyflame]

Your post was too wordy, misspelled and misformulated, poorly laid out, and dense in both vocabulary choice and formatting for me to actually get your point. I have taken a stab at saying what you meant to (in so many words.)

Smash players are stupid for thinking that just because they can't find advanced techniques in a few months , those techniques do not exist.

Why couldn't you have just posted that, instead of bypassing the filter so that you could inject your own brand of obscene vitriol (which, by the way, is an excellent way to destroy any credibility you might have previously held) and making an obfuscated, unreadable wall of text?

 

[ssbbFICTION]

I agree with you SSBB fiction, well said ^^

THANK you!

 

[CodeytheRhino]

I believe the church is that way. ->
Quit preaching and quit the scene if you don't like Brawl. Not to mention you over-generalized the players. Not everyone complains about tripping an whatnot.

Enjoy your AIDS.:flame:

 

[TheManaLord]

lollll man op failed hard so good i love it crash and burn

 

[RBinator]

No one commented on the following post yet?

To be fair, it wasn't a business strategy, it was just due to the fact the game was getting tooo competitive and not fun. Mean comon, when people spoke about Melee, they'd think 'Ken, Azen, Husband' and etc...... Not... 'OMG, Melee! SO MUCH FUN'

Fun is subjective, this point has been brought up quite a bit. How is it not possible to be competitive and have fun at the same time? How was what the competitive community did in Melee made the game less fun for casuals? Casuals still had their items, full selection of stages, special melee, and more.

The game got too serious, the fun was pretty much sucked dry after the first few years.

See above point.

Nintendo don't know about the AT's, Sakurai's DEVELOPMENT team do! An they've took them out for many reasons, not because it was a business strategy to sell more copies, but because they felt it was better for the game.

I do recall Sakurai saying they wanted to lower the skill gap between casual and hardcore players. However, it didn't work out so well, because good players will still destroy poor players.

Why would Nintendo think 'Advanced Techniques & Newcomers'? ATs take time to learn and master, a newcomer isn't buying the game thinking about the advanced techniques, he's buying it cuz he wants to kick Pikachu's ***.

Advanced techniques helped expand the life span of a game. Just because someone didn't buy the game for it doesn't mean it couldn't be there.

Do you get it? Taking out the ATs doesnt mean Brawl will appeal to a wider audience, it just makes the game more fun and less serious.

No I don't get it. How did ATs stop Melee from appealing to a wide audience? Many casuals didn't even know they existed in Melee. In the case of Brawl and online play, people just need to accept that there are better players then them and not complain every time they lose. While Brawl is easier at the moment then Melee, big skill gaps will still lead to the lesser skilled player getting destroyed.

(I personally don't enjoy Brawl all too much cuz L-Cancelling has been taken out) but its still good.

Also, **** You to all the ***gots that wanted a 'long hard singleplayer' to satisfy them. Becuz it's their fault Brawl has less than 40 characters and not a HUGEEEE amount of stages because the production for the SSE took 2 and a half years. Whilst Character production was really only a total of 16 months...

And I still fail to see where the OP is coming from besides a poorly worded rant.

 

[SuperSmasher962]

Wait there are demos in this game how do i access them?

 

[J0K3R]

Masterpieces in vault i believe

 

[G-X]

No one commented on the following post yet?

I agree with whoever is in yellow.

Taking out AT's doesn't make Brawl "less [competitive] and more fun," it just makes it less competitive.

The only thing I am really surprised about is that nobody has taken the more competitive aspects of Melee and used them to create the perfect competitive fighting game (I'm looking at you, Capcom).