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How would be Smash Bros.' future without Sakurai (at least as Director) ?

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BluePikmin11

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I interpret it as suggesting that, although Sakurai is arguaby stubborn and biased in his own peculiar ways, he has a lot of in-depth knowedge of the Nintendo canon and displays a great sense of passion in his work. It's fallacious to say that a new director would necessartily result in "less fanservice", I will agree with you on that, though it's just as nebulous to say that a new director would guarantee the opposite.

It's really a case of "we don't know because we have no experience of it either way". It isn't a priori to say that Sakurai is a greater or poorer director than anybody else, but it is justifiably a posteriori to say that Sakurai does give the fans what they want as well as giving the fans what he wants and / or believes they want.
Sorry about getting worked up, there's no absolutes, I just feel (in my opinion) like it won't be the same Smash Bros without him.
 

Snagrio

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People will ***** about the roster till the end of time. Can't please everyone on the roster. All you can do is put in the main characters, a few newcomers and that's it. As much as SSB4's roster is not perfect, any SSB roster will never be perfect. It'll just be pretty good.
It also doesn't help that they blatantly ignore characters at the top of the overall request lists.

"They want Mewtwo back? Naw, just throw in Wii Fit Trainer. Nobody expects her! Hardy har har."
 

Saltwater Gem

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Yes, Nintendo can make the occasional screwup when putting someone new in charge of a series (where's my kremlings Retro Studios?), but most of the time it's pretty solid and it's because Nintendo is super careful about this kinda stuff.
Oh snap... this sentence just put together Retro and Smash in my brain. Retro making a Smash game... I would love to see that happen. And knowing the history Retro has with Metroid and Donkey Kong (as well as Mario Kart) they could do some amazing work.
 
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the8thark

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Lol just because you yourself are very dedicated and have beaten those games to death doesn't mean anything. Zelda II/III/DKC2 are considered very difficult.
Zelda 2 is considered very hard by most, I will agree there.
Zelda 3 is considered pretty easy by most.
DKC2, I have not heard anyone say the game is too hard or too easy. I guess that game is somewhere in the middle. A few hard-ish stages near the end of the game I guess. DKC1 and DKC3 are certainly harder games. DK64 on the other hand I found really hard in parts. The K.Rool fight there was tough as nails. But that could just be me.

So I can only agree with 1 out of 3 of what you said above.
Also the average gamer these days will not put in the effort to master such games like the average gamer in the past would. Totally different mindset of the average gamer of the 2010's when compared the average gamer of the 1980's.

If you want a hard game, go play Battletoads for the NES. Without cheating (ie game genie) I honestly can't beat it. One level I have to use a glitch to beat, and the 2nd last level, almost impossible to do legit. Amazing game and the last level has game graphics tech that was pretty revolutionary at the time. Too bad hardly anyone experienced it cause the game was just so hard.

I guess my TLDR is after all my rambling:
You can't compare the average gamers of 2010's and 1980's. The 1980's average gamer was a lot more willing to keep going at something till they beat it. Today most of the average gamers just want a quick hit of easy fun.
 

BobVance_

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Zelda 2 is considered very hard by most, I will agree there.
Zelda 3 is considered pretty easy by most.
DKC2, I have not heard anyone say the game is too hard or too easy. I guess that game is somewhere in the middle. A few hard-ish stages near the end of the game I guess. DKC1 and DKC3 are certainly harder games. DK64 on the other hand I found really hard in parts. The K.Rool fight there was tough as nails. But that could just be me.

So I can only agree with 1 out of 3 of what you said above.
Also the average gamer these days will not put in the effort to master such games like the average gamer in the past would. Totally different mindset of the average gamer of the 2010's when compared the average gamer of the 1980's.

If you want a hard game, go play Battletoads for the NES. Without cheating (ie game genie) I honestly can't beat it. One level I have to use a glitch to beat, and the 2nd last level, almost impossible to do legit. Amazing game and the last level has game graphics tech that was pretty revolutionary at the time. Too bad hardly anyone experienced it cause the game was just so hard.

I guess my TLDR is after all my rambling:
You can't compare the average gamers of 2010's and 1980's. The 1980's average gamer was a lot more willing to keep going at something till they beat it. Today most of the average gamers just want a quick hit of easy fun.
Zelda 3 isn't considered easy by most at all. People who downloaded it via VC, GBA, or after A Link Between Worlds thought it was the most frustrating one in the series; go to any Zelda forum or discussion board and most will agree. As for DKC2, most critics agree it's incredibly difficult, and DKC1 is more or less pretty straight forward except for a few mine cart stages. And yes you can compare them, the whole topic was Nintendo's dumbing down of games for future audiences. That's the whole point, and Nintendo caters to that, and I think their games suffer for it. It's called lowering the bar for people who can't "win", not holding them to it.
 
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brodouble

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uhh, i don't know, but it couldn't be worse. everytime people point out some flaws or critiques with this guy's games he goes off into a tirade, instead of ever accepting the insane possibility that, gasp, there's some validity to it. i mean, i have fun with every smash brothers game because, it's smash, how can't you? but Melee was the only one with solid fighting gameplay i thought. brawl was slow and boring and the 3ds one, while better, is still heavily unbalanced. and again, people were confused as to why doctor mario or lucina or whatever were in the game, and he's just like "people complaining about that are children." well uhh...okay. we get it man, you devote your whole life to this franchise and work long hours and weekends; great..we're still paying for the end product and we judge it, not you.

of course i also take into account that nintendo wants sales and probably tells him to make the game "appealing" so he prob doesn't care about balance that much. but, still, based on interviews, he's a bit coo coo.
 

InfiniteTripping

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Dk Still had games coming out it just wasn't part of the dkc series, and I wouldn't call pm an issue as it still needs brawl to work and it's primary the reason they don't shut it down also they supported melee and evo last year(they also had strictly pm players at the e3 tourney). So maybe it was a burden originally when they wanted to go casual but now they're pretty supportive I mean they even have scar on their channel a lot as well as well as d1 hosting some Nintendo tournaments.

Miyamoto recently said in an interview Nintendo as a hole is trying to cater toward hardcore players now as they realized they messed up when trying to alienate them. I think that's actually the primary reason smash 4 ended up being more competitive based not because of Sakurai himself as he still seems pretty against the whole idea of it being a competitive game in interviews.

Also smash not being high priority? Reggie stated the game was being made before Sakurai even got to work on it. I'm sure if he said no they would of got someone else i can't imagine finding a new director would be hard at all despite what you say. Sometimes new blood can be good for a series.
Yeah Donkey Konga and that's about it. Wouldn't call that a true DK game, just Nintendo experimenting with peripherals and grafting DK's face onto it. It took until 2010 for a true sequel to the DK series to be made. Nearly a decade after the sale.

Nintendo bans you if you even use the abbreviation PM on any of their services. It is on the level of using an ethnic slur. There might be this public showing of happy faces about it but privately Nintendo really doesn't like it at all.

Miyamoto would not make it a competitive game, nor would anyone out of EAD. Play the latest Mario Kart if you need proof that Nintendo doesn't really care for that scene to appear around one of its games. There's a surface level competitive system but the core of the game is very random and chaotic.

If he would have said no it would have stalled, more than likely. The game wasn't being made before Sakurai signed on, it was merely announced. There's a huge difference. The company to make the game wasn't even formed when Nintendo announced it. Sakurai had to put that together. The way I see that, is that announcing the game was a pressure move to get Sakurai to sign on. Because before Sakurai signed on, all the game was, was announced. After Sakurai signed on the game actually started moving forward in development.
 
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GrandHc

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In all honesty, If Namco Bandai is at its helm of his absence, I think its fair to say Smash's future is well in secure.
Using Tekken Tag 2 as the best example, They know how to make a competitive game as well as one suited for more casual play, they can give a fan service roster while having the know how of balancing.

Keeping this on topic, I hope the Smash 6 Rumor is real and Namco Bandai are only supervised by Sakurai just to truly see if they could handle smash in the most proper way.
 

SS-bros14

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It'd be sad to see Sakurai stop working on Smash, but the day will come. Don't know who should take over, though...
 

Champ Gold

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Just give it to Hal or Namco-Bandai.

At best have of the veterans from past Smash Bros games as the director.

Besides Nintendo already had a plan if Sakurai didn't want to do another Smash.

Smash 4 was gonna be the first game without Sakurai, he just wanted to do it himself
 

D-idara

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Yeah Donkey Konga and that's about it. Wouldn't call that a true DK game, just Nintendo experimenting with peripherals and grafting DK's face onto it. It took until 2010 for a true sequel to the DK series to be made. Nearly a decade after the sale.

Nintendo bans you if you even use the abbreviation PM on any of their services. It is on the level of using an ethnic slur. There might be this public showing of happy faces about it but privately Nintendo really doesn't like it at all.

Miyamoto would not make it a competitive game, nor would anyone out of EAD. Play the latest Mario Kart if you need proof that Nintendo doesn't really care for that scene to appear around one of its games. There's a surface level competitive system but the core of the game is very random and chaotic.

If he would have said no it would have stalled, more than likely. The game wasn't being made before Sakurai signed on, it was merely announced. There's a huge difference. The company to make the game wasn't even formed when Nintendo announced it. Sakurai had to put that together. The way I see that, is that announcing the game was a pressure move to get Sakurai to sign on. Because before Sakurai signed on, all the game was, was announced. After Sakurai signed on the game actually started moving forward in development.
How foolish can a person really be? Nintendo doesn't acknowledge PM because they'd have to legally shut it down, you make out Nintendo to be some evil corporation when they're like the only company who's not evil anymore, I don't see why they wouldn't make the game competitive.

Smash without Sakurai would probably be something really wonderful, probably with a whole lot more roster balance, alternate costumes, stages that are actually memorable locations (Really? Arena Ferox? Windy Hill?), cutscenes and a story mode...seriously, he needs to step down as fast as possible, at least as director, so he can't wreck the game with his own hands. In my perfect world, the next Smash would be developed by a team of Namco Bandai and Netherrealm Studios, they know their way around alternate costumes, fanservice, and a cool story with great narrative far better than Sakurai will ever know.
 
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Funkermonster

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Yeah Donkey Konga and that's about it. Wouldn't call that a true DK game, just Nintendo experimenting with peripherals and grafting DK's face onto it. It took until 2010 for a true sequel to the DK series to be made. Nearly a decade after the sale.
The following games would like to have a word with you, whether a main series DK game or not (A DK game is still a DK game):
Donkey Kong Jungle Beat, later remade on Wii with new play control
DK King of Swing
Mario vs Donkey Kong (even though its a spinoff, it still turned into its own series)
Mario vs Donkey Kong 2
DK Jungle Climber
Donkey Kong Barrel Blast
Japan Exclusive Donkey Kong Banana Kingdom
Diddy Kong Racing
Donkey Kong 64
Mario vs Donkey Kong DSiware
 

Wintropy

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Smash without Sakurai would probably be something really wonderful, probably with a whole lot more roster balance, alternate costumes, stages that are actually memorable locations (Really? Arena Ferox? Windy Hill?), cutscenes and a story mode...seriously, he needs to step down as fast as possible, at least as director, so he can't wreck the game with his own hands. In my perfect world, the next Smash would be developed by a team of Namco Bandai and Netherrealm Studios, they know their way around alternate costumes, fanservice, and a cool story with great narrative far better than Sakurai will ever know.
Just a heads up, be careful with using absolutes like that. Letting personal grievances cloud your judgement doesn't make for a very convincing argument and is pretty disrespectful to the subject.

Sakurai's still trusted to do this because he's good at what he does. People may choose to disregard that entirely, and fair enough, each to their own, but I daresay we'd be living in a very different community if not for his actions. Whether that's for better or for worse I can't say and won't speculate on, but it would certainly not be the community as we have it now.
 

D-idara

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Just a heads up, be careful with using absolutes like that. Letting personal grievances cloud your judgement doesn't make for a very convincing argument and is pretty disrespectful to the subject.

Sakurai's still trusted to do this because he's good at what he does. People may choose to disregard that entirely, and fair enough, each to their own, but I daresay we'd be living in a very different community if not for his actions. Whether that's for better or for worse I can't say and won't speculate on, but it would certainly not be the community as we have it now.
Actually...I'd like Sakurai to step down from Smash Bros. for the good of another franchise, if Sakurai stepped down from Smash Bros. he would stop harming the game at a disproportionate harm-good rate. AND, he would probably work on developing a sequel for a game series he actually knows how to not **** up big time, Kid Icarus Uprising 2.
 

InfiniteTripping

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The following games would like to have a word with you, whether a main series DK game or not (A DK game is still a DK game):
Donkey Kong Jungle Beat, later remade on Wii with new play control
DK King of Swing
Mario vs Donkey Kong (even though its a spinoff, it still turned into its own series)
Mario vs Donkey Kong 2
DK Jungle Climber
Donkey Kong Barrel Blast
Japan Exclusive Donkey Kong Banana Kingdom
Diddy Kong Racing
Donkey Kong 64
Mario vs Donkey Kong DSiware
DK 64 was made when Rare was still around, same with Diddy Kong Racing. If you really want to pad out your list, you can also add all the Mario Party and Mario Kart games and call those DK games because DK is technically in them. None of those games really follow the DK Country series, they are spin-off series. Hence why the game "DKC Returns" is even called "Returns" - implying a long hiatus.
 

InfiniteTripping

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How foolish can a person really be? Nintendo doesn't acknowledge PM because they'd have to legally shut it down, you make out Nintendo to be some evil corporation when they're like the only company who's not evil anymore, I don't see why they wouldn't make the game competitive.
I never said they were evil. Allowing the fanbase to acknowledge Project M doesn't mean they are acknowledging it. There's no reason to ban other people for talking about it if they really like what Project M is doing. I actually understand why they don't like Project M, it's not the simpleminded notion that they are evil - it's that, they want control over their IP which is incredibly valuable for them and when fans program the games and the iconic characters they created and make them do things they never intended, it is out of their control and it may become a problem. I don't think Nintendo really likes that Snake smokes in Project M alongside Mario and Pikachu, for example.

Neither of us knows whether they will or not, but my general impression is that Nintendo doesn't really make competitive games and they are freaked out by the competitive scene of Melee. There's a reason why Melee was kicked out of MLG and why it took a huge effort by the community to get it repped at Evo again - neither of these entities really likes working with Nintendo, who is hot and cold about the whole thing.
 

SS-bros14

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Smash without Sakurai would probably be something really wonderful, probably with a whole lot more roster balance, alternate costumes, stages that are actually memorable locations (Really? Arena Ferox? Windy Hill?), cutscenes and a story mode...
I think the stages are pretty memorable. And more alt costumes AND a story mode? That would probably take a LONG time.
 

BobVance_

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Yeah Donkey Konga and that's about it. Wouldn't call that a true DK game, just Nintendo experimenting with peripherals and grafting DK's face onto it. It took until 2010 for a true sequel to the DK series to be made. Nearly a decade after the sale.

Nintendo bans you if you even use the abbreviation PM on any of their services. It is on the level of using an ethnic slur. There might be this public showing of happy faces about it but privately Nintendo really doesn't like it at all.

Miyamoto would not make it a competitive game, nor would anyone out of EAD. Play the latest Mario Kart if you need proof that Nintendo doesn't really care for that scene to appear around one of its games. There's a surface level competitive system but the core of the game is very random and chaotic.

If he would have said no it would have stalled, more than likely. The game wasn't being made before Sakurai signed on, it was merely announced. There's a huge difference. The company to make the game wasn't even formed when Nintendo announced it. Sakurai had to put that together. The way I see that, is that announcing the game was a pressure move to get Sakurai to sign on. Because before Sakurai signed on, all the game was, was announced. After Sakurai signed on the game actually started moving forward in development.
Lol wait seriously? I'll get banned for using PM as a name?
 

InfiniteTripping

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Lol wait seriously? I'll get banned for using PM as a name?
A lot of people were abbreviating Paper Mario with PM and got banned by Nintendo, who assumed they were referring to Project M. As far as I know that blanket ban is still in effect.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Lol wait seriously? I'll get banned for using PM as a name?
It's an unofficial hack that is technically illegal. Remember, you aren't allowed to modify a game whatsoever without the permission of Nintendo or the creators of the game. That's how the Terms of Service work when you specifically bought the system itself. It's a thing they put in to kill cheat devices. They don't care much because Brawl is highly popular with or without Project M. It helped sales. However, due to their policy, they can't acknowledge it because then their policy would be worthless. It's Shutdown or Ignore.

Also, any hack can be seen as against the rules. Similar reasons why roms aren't discussable on many forums.
 

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The game would probably be less Kirby-like(good, 'cause Kirby games are slow), but there'd also likely be even MORE commercial-only silly characters. I also feel like the new director would try to act as if he were Sakurai, and keep the games feeling way too samey, since that's a big Nintendo flaw in general lately.
 

InfiniteTripping

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You know, I haven't played this game yet but I've heard from friends of mine who did that it really could have been something if they changed some major flaws in the game. Apparently it has an awkward finishing system? I'm not opposed for Smash clones to pop up like that, I'd like to see how other designers make a game like Smash. This game seemed a little too much on the nose, though.

Probably an accurate comparison of what would happen though - it would look sorta like Smash but there might be some major elements added that will not mesh well with the overall design. I saw gameplay footage and even though it kinda looked like Smash it had a soulless quality to it. It didn't have much personality from what I saw of it.
 

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It would be way different without Sakurai, and his trollish nature is one of the things that made the games so great design wise
 

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I think that if Sakurai really is stepping down after this one, I can see that he would pick a studio that he knows the series would be in good hands with. Maybe that's why he worked with Bandai Namco?
 

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at first i thought there is no smash without sakurai, but then i started to think about the whole SSE cutscenes got ''leaked',' and now there is no story mode for 4. we can't be negative about smash. or he will say we are being little kids, i'm starting, to see him becoming the Phil Fish of Japan,
I've been told it's a very Japanese way of thinking. Still don't make sense to me either...
 

adamlon1

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If Masahiro Sakurai does resign and does other nintendo projects like continuing Kid Icarus. I personally would think he would pick someone in nintendo that has worked with him on smash 4 and other smash games like Brawl and Melee who knows smash in and out.
 

LancerStaff

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If Masahiro Sakurai does resign and does other nintendo projects like continuing Kid Icarus. I personally would think he would pick someone in nintendo that has worked with him on smash 4 and other smash games like Brawl and Melee who knows smash in and out.
That'd leave his wife and a few of HAL's composers, I'm afraid.
 

PCHU

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That'd leave his wife and a few of HAL's composers, I'm afraid.
While it's entirely possible for someone else to screw everything up, it's also entirely possible for someone else to do a really good job, maybe even greater than what Sakurai has done.
I'm sure there are capable people out there, we just trust Sakurai so much because he's all we've really had.

That being said, I think it'd do him and us some good if he sat this one out.
I've got my complaints, but I am grateful for the cool stuff he's made, and I don't want to see him work himself into the hospital.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Straight roms are not hacks. And they are not talked about for totally different reasons.
You can't talk about roms because they are illegal to distribute. You can't talk about romhacks because they are illegal to make. The reasons are pretty similar, legality.

Things like Zelda Classic are not official romhacks, and the only reason it's allowed kept up is due to the fact it's a fan-made product that is never used for money.

Project M isn't really "sold" to people, despite the tourneys that exist with money prizes. So it's strange in how to work with it. It is a type of hack, that breaks the Terms of Service, but it's not a big deal to them because nobody sells it specifically. I doubt they liked the money tourneys, but it's likely the only part they mind as much.(it does count as making money off of a game in some way, a game that you didn't just buy, but modified) Hence, it's "strange".

Anyway, as I said before, I don't think anybody else can pull this kind of thing off in a really good way, but I could see some good things happen(namely slightly better and equal representation), but I don't think the balance may be as good. The game is balanced around characters, stages, and items. That is not a common thing, so balancing it is a lot harder than people realize.

What I would like to see is he doesn't entirely step down, but is more of an adviser instead. I want the spirit of the series intact. Every game has done that beautifully. Although he does need to rest those arms. The fact he really puts so much hard work into properly balancing it himself so it's fun to play yet interesting and unique is quite admirable. I don't agree with all his decisions, but credit is due.
 

the8thark

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You can't talk about roms because they are illegal to distribute. You can't talk about romhacks because they are illegal to make. The reasons are pretty similar, legality.
The end results are pretty similar but the reasons that go to this end result are different.

And secondly, Project M is a romhack technically. But people talk about it all the time. Just because Nintendo chose to ignore it doesn't change anything really. Technically by that definition Project M is a Romhack and "you can't talk about romhacks because they are illegal to make."
I am sure the whole "Nintendo ignoring it" makes people people feel at easy about talking about this specific illegal Romhack. I say illegal because you said above that romhacks are illegal to make.
 
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Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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The end results are pretty similar but the reasons that go to this end result are different.

And secondly, Project M is a romhack technically. But people talk about it all the time. Just because Nintendo chose to ignore it doesn't change anything really. Technically by that definition Project M is a Romhack and "you can't talk about romhacks because they are illegal to make."
I am sure the whole "Nintendo ignoring it" makes people people feel at easy about talking about this specific illegal Romhack. I say illegal because you said above that romhacks are illegal to make.
Yes, I know it counts as a romhack. That Smash World made. That's why we can talk about it here. Nintendo could shut it down if they wanted to, but they don't actually dislike it. They love the idea, but can't support it as I noted before. They specifically went out of their way to invite a Prokect M player to one of the invitationals.

Regardless, my other stuff was just as important. I think by now, we can probably cut the off-topic stuff since there's other boards for it. Or PM's. >_<
 

TheDMonroeShow

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Yeah Donkey Konga and that's about it. Wouldn't call that a true DK game, just Nintendo experimenting with peripherals and grafting DK's face onto it. It took until 2010 for a true sequel to the DK series to be made. Nearly a decade after the sale.

Nintendo bans you if you even use the abbreviation PM on any of their services. It is on the level of using an ethnic slur. There might be this public showing of happy faces about it but privately Nintendo really doesn't like it at all.

Miyamoto would not make it a competitive game, nor would anyone out of EAD. Play the latest Mario Kart if you need proof that Nintendo doesn't really care for that scene to appear around one of its games. There's a surface level competitive system but the core of the game is very random and chaotic.

If he would have said no it would have stalled, more than likely. The game wasn't being made before Sakurai signed on, it was merely announced. There's a huge difference. The company to make the game wasn't even formed when Nintendo announced it. Sakurai had to put that together. The way I see that, is that announcing the game was a pressure move to get Sakurai to sign on. Because before Sakurai signed on, all the game was, was announced. After Sakurai signed on the game actually started moving forward in development.
Ah I suppose you're right about the pm thing I do remember stuff like that happening during the tournament but I think if they sraight up hated it they would shut it down. Or maybe the possible back lash is just scaring them idk?

And I think you misunderstand I don't think miyamoto or anybody in particular would make the game more competitive I just don't think the choice to lean less casual this time was sakurais

Maybe it was a pressure move by Reggie to get him working on the game but I doubt they would drop the project if he declined just like I doubt they'd drop mario of miyamoto didn't want to work on a new one.(Kirby is a good example of this)
 
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Knight Dude

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I can't help but seriously respect Sakurai for all the work he's put in to each Smash game in terms of content. He's a real hard working dude. And he know's exactly what he's doing. Even some people don't realize it. He's part of the reason that the games are so fun. It has to really suck dealing with a hand injury. In a way, that's practically his lively-hood. And the Smash Bros. series really does have his style thrown into it, his own personality. The kind of thing that's hard to duplicate. I think it would be for the best if he stayed as the Smash front runner for as long as possible.

Granted, I don't agree with every choice he's made either. But you get the point. He's done a good job for the most part.

However, most popular series continue without their original creators taking the helm. Sakurai's original series, Kirby, has had plenty of great games that keep the feel of the older ones, and he wasn't directly involved with them. Miyamoto doesn't work directly with the Mario Platformers anymore if I'm not mistaken. And I think quite a few Mega Man games were made without Keiji Inafune at the helm either. I think the same situation could happen with Smash. Because it's too much of a cash cow for a company like Nintendo to just drop.

I guess another example would be the whole comic book industry. Stan Lee, for example, is the co-creator of Spider-Man, the X-Men, the Hulk and many others. But we've had plenty of writers and artist that made important contributions to their methos or whatever over the years. Like Todd McFarland or Brian Micheal Bendis.

So the real question is, if Sakurai steps down from the Smash series, who'd take his place? That's what interests me the most. Because it's very, very intriguing to me. Each developer has their own tastes when it comes to mechanics, artstyle, content and character ideas that I can't help but wonder how another set of capable hands would handle Smash Bros. Hopefully, it'd be someone Sakurai can trust with the series.

Anyways, sorry for the wall of text.
 
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