Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread

[Divinokage]

Well it sounded like you were (and maybe still are) writing off ALL shield dropping with Ganon as unuseful, and the example I provided was actually a running shield drop (shai drop), which is good, I don't care what anyone says. It's like running off the platform and uair'ing but you can literally drop whenever you want, not just at the end of the platform. As for normal reversals, look at linguini vs n0ne at 2:20. The way n0ne uses shield drop uair there is how Ganon would use it. You just have to pay attention because they can hit your shield and space themself out of range of your uair if they know you're about to shield drop. But in that case you can drop into ftilt, dd, whatever you please. Top platform is going to be more situational, especially on BF/DL but you can still surprise people with running shield drops... spider_sense caught Blea with a dash shield drop fair into dair on that fastest stocks ever video (top platform YS). Shield drops are also the only way to drop quickly after an auto cancelled aerial on a plat, and the fastest way to drop period. I'd keep messing with it.

Wait what? But I definitely wrote in my last post that you can stuff someone if you predict they are going to come at you as you shield drop. I just said its unsafe if they are below you. That AC aerial into Shield drop might be ok to do I guess? The only way I can see it combo is if you get someone with downair and they don't tech. Falcon is also a lot faster than Ganon, he can punish Ganon's moves with shield dropping with many more ways. If you do that same situation in reverse, Falcon would already be on the floor as Ganon is falling with a uair.

 

[-ACE-]

So does the great Kage the warrior REALLY get shield stabbed every time he shields on a platform? I don't get it.

Are you aware that you have time to do the entire shield drop motion during shield stun? As in, you don't have to be holding sideways waiting for them to come at you.

 

[Linguini]

Ink that, por favor. Unless MacD was playing like ****, there might be a lot of good matchup stuff there.

So many johns from macd's camp saying he "wasn't playing well". rofl I saw him playing 30 minutes before the set and he was perfectly fine(and talking smack about me losing before meeting him in wf). Of course you play like **** when your on tilt! Looks like that n!gga ate one two many fairs for lunch LOL.

Plenty of good matchup stuff there.

I also beat lucky and chu at pound 4 btw. ...two people I think I would still beat. Wish I would've gotten an icees/spacie bracket at ceo. Instead I got the falcon/sheik dammit lol

 

[-ACE-]

Saw MacD lurking here less than 2 hours ago LOL. Didn't know he was talking smack, that's funny as ****. Honestly his Ganon experience is limited, he's occasionally played bizz but not very often, and I guarantee he's never actually practiced specifics vs Ganon. Linguini plays a lot differently than bizz too. Most likely had the "I'm a top player, Ganon is free lulz" attitude. He went from being all smiles before the set to dropping out of the tournament and possibly evo too. LOL

I played MacD at Pound 5, got one-stocked twice. Never thought he was super good at the mu.

 

[Divinokage]

So does the great Kage the warrior REALLY get shield stabbed every time he shields on a platform? I don't get it.

Are you aware that you have time to do the entire shield drop motion during shield stun? As in, you don't have to be holding sideways waiting for them to come at you.

Ya but I get shield stabbed so often, I'm even scared to shield on the platform. I swear I get shield stabbed almost every time, the players learn to play vs Ganon the more I play them. If the players I played with often still didn't know variation as to punish shielding on platforms then I'd actually have no hope for anyone. I'm aware of that you can input shield drop during the shield stun to buffer it but I almost never get that opportunity, I wouldn't lie about this, cmon! lol. I'd totally do it more often if I could. It's true that Ganon's full shield doesn't cover his feet.

So many johns from macd's camp saying he "wasn't playing well". rofl I saw him playing 30 minutes before the set and he was perfectly fine(and talking smack about me losing before meeting him in wf). Of course you play like **** when your on tilt! Looks like that n!gga ate one two many fairs for lunch LOL.

Plenty of good matchup stuff there.

I also beat lucky and chu at pound 4 btw. ...two people I think I would still beat. Wish I would've gotten an icees/spacie bracket at ceo. Instead I got the falcon/sheik dammit lol

You definitely could, I think they did possibly get better but they aren't ready for top Ganon **** even to this day. I know you're good vs Fox and ICs as well. I can totally see MacD saying all that to almost everybody in the venue actually.. lol. Also you gotta be real lucky to get those ICs, they usually just steam roll their bracket with wobbling before you even get a chance to face them QQ

 

[-ACE-]

Divinokage I mean can't you just light shield barely? Or shield drop aerial before they get under you? Getting shield poked a few times doesn't make it a bad mechanic. I know shield doesn't fully cover feet because I bair Ganon's feet in dittos all the time, but on full shield it doesn't work super often. As soon as shield starts to shrink its a different story. Try shielding at the last second almost like you're going to PS and see if you get shield poked as often.

 

[Linguini]

Saw MacD lurking here less than 2 hours ago LOL. Didn't know he was talking smack, that's funny as ****. Honestly his Ganon experience is limited, he's occasionally played bizz but not very often, and I guarantee he's never actually practiced specifics vs Ganon. Linguini plays a lot differently than bizz too. Most likely had the "I'm a top player, Ganon is free lulz" attitude. He went from being all smiles before the set to dropping out of the tournament and possibly evo too. LOL

I played MacD at Pound 5, got one-stocked twice. Never thought he was super good at the mu.

It was def lighthearted shiet talk tho. For what it's worth macd has always seemed like a pretty nice dude to me but it just pisses me off when people try to detract from other peoples legit wins.

I ALWAYS give it up to my opponent when they beat me. Maybe it's because i'm old school and came to age when "No johns" was a real thing. I ****ing lost due to a phantom hit bair on game 3 a few weeks ago but still gave credit to my opponent lol

 

[Divinokage]

Divinokage I mean can't you just light shield barely? Or shield drop aerial before they get under you? Getting shield poked a few times doesn't make it a bad mechanic. I know shield doesn't fully cover feet because I bair Ganon's feet in dittos all the time, but on full shield it doesn't work super often. As soon as shield starts to shrink its a different story. Try shielding at the last second almost like you're going to PS and see if you get shield poked as often.

Alright time to PS into shield drop, lol.

 

[-ACE-]

It was def lighthearted shiet talk tho. For what it's worth macd has always seemed like a pretty nice dude to me but it just pisses me off when people try to detract from other peoples legit wins.

I ALWAYS give it up to my opponent when they beat me. Maybe it's because i'm old school and came to age when "No johns" was a real thing. I ****ing lost due to a phantom hit bair on game 3 a few weeks ago but still gave credit to my opponent lol

I hear that breh. If you look at my stream matches I'm happy as **** and give due respect when I lose. I lose to people all the time I know I could beat and don't say anything but "good **** bro". The only thing I've really johned about was my controller going out during evo, barely one stocked twice by uuaa. I could'nt even LEDGEDASH. I looked at the 5 randoms holding controllers watching our set and asked you can I please use one of your controllers for 1-2 matches?" They all just looked at me like I was speaking ****ing German. So I preceded to barely lose again despite uuaa being on tilt because I had a solid read on him. Lol. No johns is still a real thing to us old school peeps. The community is worlds different now.

 

[-ACE-]

Alright time to PS into shield drop, lol.

Lol I dunno if you're ****ing with me now but if it's at least close to PS timing they have to be super on point to stab you.

 

[Divinokage]

Lol I dunno if you're ****ing with me now but if it's at least close to PS timing they have to be super on point to stab you.

I was with that statement but believe me the players are normally quite on point with their move placement. Can't sleep on anyone.

 

[-ACE-]

I was with that statement but believe me the players are normally quite on point with their move placement. Can't sleep on anyone.

Ain't that the truth. Crazy to me that they just now introduce the thought of top players skipping pools when pools are actually not free now lol

 

[Glennwood]

No but Hax was definitely the best Falcon back then. He was consistently making top 5. Ive beaten old legends before like Azen, kdj, chudat. Also Jman, Lucky, SW, Darc.

Damn man I always knew you were a beast (you and bizz are the reason I picked this up competitively) but you really do have an impressive resume.

Also in general what would a decent approaching option be for laser happy falcos? I've had a few annoying occurrences, they were super close sets but the lasers stuffed a few to many of my approaches which edged the other player out over me. I was using platforms as best I could but more often than not I'd eat an uair or bair from falco. Honestly the only thing I can think of was just power shielding enough that he'd piss off with it but as most of you guys have much much more extensive knowledge I'd like to know some ways everyone handles such a situation. thanks in advance.

 

[Glennwood]

So many johns from macd's camp saying he "wasn't playing well". rofl I saw him playing 30 minutes before the set and he was perfectly fine(and talking smack about me losing before meeting him in wf). Of course you play like **** when your on tilt! Looks like that n!gga ate one two many fairs for lunch LOL.

Plenty of good matchup stuff there.

I also beat lucky and chu at pound 4 btw. ...two people I think I would still beat. Wish I would've gotten an icees/spacie bracket at ceo. Instead I got the falcon/sheik dammit lol

**** man, don't listen to those johns, you played insane, honestly one of the best Ganon
performances I have seen in a while, easily a match everyone should watch if they wanna study Ganon to any extent.

 

[-ACE-]

If you want to learn about dealing with falco, ask advice from linguini, spider_sense, Eikelmann, and Kage, in that order imo. They all have good advice. Kage's skill is undeniable but Falco is notoriously one of his worst matchups, despite him taking out westballz, one thing you'll realize is aggressive Falcos are usually the easiest to deal with. When they sit back and laser (zanguzen), more decision making is necessary. Versus aggressive Falcos, you know exactly what to do without question.

 

[Glennwood]

I love fighting aggressive falcos, much easier to bait out a punish and control the match for me. When I get a campy falco not only does it completely piss me off ruining my mental game, which I need to get around on my own, it just feels like they get such good stage control and I can never move how I want. I really need a lot more experience with campier falcos. There is really only three MU's I dislike at my playing level and that's Sheik, Peach (I just don't like fighting them in general no matter who I play) and of course falcos who sit back and wait. I only ever fear falco when I'm off stage but in the opposite situation I love it, you'd be surprised how many missed meteor cancels there are after I stomp them and mixing up with tipmans they almost never get back once I knock them off. I need to improve my movement more than anything but that will come with practice.

 

[-ACE-]

The one good thing about campy Falcos is they can sometimes easily be cornered where you can seriously fuuck them. But until you corner them you need to either PS laser or react out of laser perfectly usually wd back or take plat to attack or bait and counter to keep the pressure on. My worst matchups are Ganon's worst matchups... Sheik, fox, puff (imho).

 

[Mr.Cochise]

If you want to learn about dealing with falco, ask advice from linguini, spider_sense,Eikelmann, and Kage, in that order imo. They all have good advice. Kage's skill is undeniable but Falco is notoriously one of his worst matchups, despite him taking out westballz, one thing you'll realize is aggressive Falcos are usually the easiest to deal with. When they sit back and laser (zanguzen), more decision making is necessary. Versus aggressive Falcos, you know exactly what to do without question.

Personally I still am way more comfortable fighting falco as Zelda than Ganon but you're not going to be beating good players with Zelda these days.

 

[Swagic]

Personally I still am way more comfortable fighting falco as Zelda than Ganon but you're not going to be beating good players with Zelda these days.

Well, Zelda does destroy most of Falco's ledge options with Naryu's...

 

[Divinokage]

If you want to learn about dealing with falco, ask advice from linguini, spider_sense, Eikelmann, and Kage, in that order imo. They all have good advice. Kage's skill is undeniable but Falco is notoriously one of his worst matchups, despite him taking out westballz, one thing you'll realize is aggressive Falcos are usually the easiest to deal with. When they sit back and laser (zanguzen), more decision making is necessary. Versus aggressive Falcos, you know exactly what to do without question.

Well i'd say i've made a lot of stride in the Falco matchup, I don't think it's my worst one anymore at all. I actually think it's much easier than Fox/Sheik or Falcon. Falco's current meta is pretty aggressive overall so it's easy to counter Falco's approaches. =P

 

[-ACE-]

That's good to hear Kage

 

[-ACE-]

Personally I still am way more comfortable fighting falco as Zelda than Ganon but you're not going to be beating good players with Zelda these days.

At top level Ganon does well vs Falco, just as well as falcon does at top level, the matchup just has to be played correctly. Good patience and a few strong punishes can really frustrate them. It's like 6/4 or 55/45ish... Falco's favor of course. People don't really treat "60/40" as close to even which is weird to me. If a character is truly winning 40% of the time when both players are skilled in matchup specifics, that's enough to regularly take sets. Even a 7/3 matchup isn't horrible. If you get into your opponent's head, even a little bit, it's almost even. Sometimes the whole numbers thing pisses me off loool

 

[RedmanSSBM]

Also in general what would a decent approaching option be for laser happy falcos? I've had a few annoying occurrences, they were super close sets but the lasers stuffed a few to many of my approaches which edged the other player out over me. I was using platforms as best I could but more often than not I'd eat an uair or bair from falco. Honestly the only thing I can think of was just power shielding enough that he'd piss off with it but as most of you guys have much much more extensive knowledge I'd like to know some ways everyone handles such a situation. thanks in advance.

It's quite easy actually. You don't necessarily have to go for powershields, but what I find very useful is dashing towards Falco, shielding just as the laser is about to hit you, and then perfect wavedash out of shield towards him and jab. This is typically fast enough to hit Falco before he can put out another laser if you are close enough. Ganon's perfect wavedash makes it so that closing the gap on Falco is really important, since the distance you go for a perfect wavedash is roughly the same as Falco doing a sh nair approach.

By jabbing in between him trying to shoot lasers, you completely interrupt his sense of control, and once you're that close to him after jabbing, instant upair, another jab, dash attack, hell even grab all become good options if the Falco wants to continue to try to laser you. If he tries to run away so that he can laser from a distance again, he is thankfully slow enough to where you can fair him as he is dashing away, but you gotta be quick about it. Typically laser happy Falcos get really uncomfortable when you get up close and personal with them. Shielding their initial laser and perfect wavedash towards to jab closes the gap so fast.

 

[Mr.Cochise]

At top level Ganon does well vs Falco, just as well as falcon does at top level, the matchup just has to be played correctly. Good patience and a few strong punishes can really frustrate them. It's like 6/4 or 55/45ish... Falco's favor of course. People don't really treat "60/40" as close to even which is weird to me. If a character is truly winning 40% of the time when both players are skilled in matchup specifics, that's enough to regularly take sets. Even a 7/3 matchup isn't horrible. If you get into your opponent's head, even a little bit, it's almost even. Sometimes the whole numbers thing pisses me off loool

Yeah, I know its not horrible for ganon but even today after playing ganon for much longer than when I mained zelda I still do better against Falco as Zelda. I remember Upke saying when he was trying to mess around with other characters and he said he felt so uncomfortable with every other character against falco specifically. I still mainly struggle against falco on the defensive side,because the punish game on spacies is pretty straightforward .

 

[-ACE-]

RedmanSSBM you brought up some good points but wd toward Falco is super situational. Much better to just have aggressive stage positioning and stuff his approaches.

 

[RedmanSSBM]

RedmanSSBM you brought up some good points but wd toward Falco is super situational. Much better to just have aggressive stage positioning and stuff his approaches.

Well I was trying to be as specific as I could. I go into detail about one particular situation because I'm so familiar with it.

Also, I'm gonna be streaming my analysis on Linguini vs MacD here in a moment. Head over to www.twitch.tv/Skytch as I'll be live there soon.

 

[Glennwood]

I'll be watching

 

[Masteroki]

I'm sure this has already been discussed but how does Ganon approach the Puff MU? I can't seem to do anything. There's only one Puff player in my area and he always wins pretty convincingly over me.

 

[Swagic]

Or is he that guy that will sit completely still and then all of a sudden jump up and look right into your eyes

-ACE- look what I found in a Wobbling guide

 

[Swagic]

I'm sure this has already been discussed but how does Ganon approach the Puff MU? I can't seem to do anything. There's only one Puff player in my area and he always wins pretty convincingly over me.

U-angle ftilt. You can catch the bair at the very beginning if it's spaced poorly. Puff is a tedious matchup because the entire set is neutral game for you, but you get combo'd into rest pretty easily. The most important thing is to NOT WHIFF. Your endlag is usually long enough to get rested.

You have a frame 3 jab that does a lot of knockback, and a frame 6 uair that can consistently send her offstage. If you can get into the rhythm of predicting movements, you can have a huge hitbox waiting when she gets there.

Rest punishes- below 25%(stage dependent), don't bother trying to utilt or Warlock punch, it won't kill. You can get a double stomp for ~42%, then the next hit will probably kill.

Puff is scared of you because you can kill her so easily. She'll be trying to wall you out with bairs, because you can trade pretty well with anything else. If you see a move that isn't bair, put out a hitbox. Worst case, you trade, and if she's been hit, she can't rest you.

 

[-ACE-]

I'm sure this has already been discussed but how does Ganon approach the Puff MU? I can't seem to do anything. There's only one Puff player in my area and he always wins pretty convincingly over me.

Keep your back to her mostly and bair, although uair has its place too. Dash dance until you have an opening. Low ftilt and high ftilt are good. Choose your grabs wisely and punish appropriately. Imo this is Ganon's hardest matchup after sheik and fox.

 

[-ACE-]

-ACE- look what I found in a Wobbling guide

I won't need to against tomber, I'll just stomp his ass like a tomato on the pavement.

 

[Glennwood]

Great analysis Locke. Enjoyed watching it and learned a good amount about the Peach MU. Huge help knowledge wise.

 

[Divinokage]

You guys need to implement reverse nair OOS against floaties that come in for a cross up while Ganon is shielding from behind. It works well vs Jiggs actually if she comes in too close, it's the only move that will stuff his next aerial actually while bair wont actually hit her in that range

 

[RedmanSSBM]

 

[-ACE-]

This Sunday will be my last versus tourney for quite a while.

FeelsEmoMan. SIIIIIIIKE!



I wonder if they'll let me play on stream LOL

 

[Linguini]

Noooo dayve

Gonna miss you homie; unfortunately can't make it out this sunday.

Got word n0ne is coming to a sofla tgl tourney next weekend. Rematch+ we teaming. Haipe!

 

[-ACE-]

Noooo dayve

Gonna miss you homie; unfortunately can't make it out this sunday.

Got word n0ne is coming to a sofla tgl tourney next weekend. Rematch+ we teaming. Haipe!

The ****!! Worst timing but I gotta go

Leaving on the 9th, probably the day of that tourney.

 

[Divinokage]

Hey hey don't steal my partner!

But GL to you 2, I know you can make team Knunch happen. I still tell the tale when you and Hax$ beat Mango and Lucky with Falcon/Ganon haha!

 

[spider_sense]

-ACE- Yeah, this song reminds me of the old school meta. But fvck Future, however this song is somewhat legit. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_h6yqV_VKY