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Q&A How to Wreck *****es with Ganon?- Linguini Q&A Thread
- Thread starter Linguini
- Start date
Diosama
Stand User
Good **** tm.
You had a nice game 3 on FD against Shady, wish I could play that well there in that matchup. You seem to be a little afraid to approach, but when you do, it messes up, which happens against Falcon. sh wavelands are good against dash dancing opponents (forward and back), or just dash > 2x wavedash.
You had a nice game 3 on FD against Shady, wish I could play that well there in that matchup. You seem to be a little afraid to approach, but when you do, it messes up, which happens against Falcon. sh wavelands are good against dash dancing opponents (forward and back), or just dash > 2x wavedash.
Diosama
Stand User
So what's the official 20GT palette? I see lots of purples, ace's red, kage's green, I feel like I'm the only blue lol
spider_sense
Smash Champion
Purple has been a passed down color for the Ganon of the south. lol I only ever give it up for Tipman and Linguini cause they were the great Ganon's before me, then I switch over to blue.
Edit: Was eventually going to pass on the color to@YvugFlameHoe but we all know why he's not getting it.
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-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
True I just go red to be original. My heart is purple.
Coastward
Smash Lord
Actually according to an article from Psych Today, fighters in traditional sports that dress in red have a higher success rate than fighters dressed in blue. The study attributed the margin of success, between a fighter of red and a fighter of blue, to the psychological values associated with red that include: passion, rage, aggression, strong emotion (sound like the King anyone).
PseudoTurtle
Smash Champion
Renth, Eikelmann, Bizz, and I all play blue as well. Once I make the fraudulent MIOM top 100 list, blue ganon will forever be the color of technical skill
forthelulz, dart is extremely fun to play against lol, I wasn't complaining in the slightest. Just explaining what it's like to play against a player of that calibur. Quite possibly the most fun I've had playing this game, now that I've really leveled up. Once you can start getting frequent 0-death combos on a player like that, the game becomes even more legendary than it already is. Or it could just be because I love the matchup.
More progress updates, I am getting SO CONSISTENT at SDI vs fox drill. Def within the spectrum of human reaction time (mine is slower than average as it is), though it does help to recognize the situation in which fox is gonna drill. I can't believe I'm only starting to get this after like 4 years lmfao idk how I ever beat a fox before
The grab after drill SDI is so ****ing free LOL, none of these foxes know how to drill grab, they just shine and get grabbed. Once I can consistently combo a little better off of grab, I think I'm going to become a real threat vs fox.
Yo tm, beast set vs Shady. Your spacing and reads / move placement are getting super good. If you're still with abu, tell him he's a fraud from Pseudo.
nah he just pressed too early. My stomp didn't hit him and he just airdodged rofl
I thought it was but I looked back at the vods and couldn't find it. riptm was your set with armada recorded?
also as always when this topic comes up, neutral ganon is the best ganon.
Diosama
Stand User
Ah, perhaps a green is more fitting for me then as a Canadorf. Purple is coolio, and blue = tech skill fo sho
RedmanSSBM
Improving My Process
I like green Ganondorf. Purple Ganondorf is cool and all but my heart is with Green Ganon.
Divinokage
Smash Legend
But.. you should be constantly thinking about the game. If you cant because of being nervous or thinking too much about winning then you gotta reset those thoughts.. kinda like they say "observe yourself from a 3rd person perspective.
RedmanSSBM
Improving My Process
I do think about the game a lot, especially when it comes to my mentality. I've gotten tons better at playing friendlies and not getting salty during friendlies at all, I'm actually enjoying them a lot now. It's when I'm in the heat of a tournament match that is a hard beast to conquer. It's so hard to look at it from a 3rd person perspective cause your mind is being affected by numerous things at that point in time. Maybe I just let things slip and I thought about winning again, or not respecting my opponent, or worrying too much, or having a headache, etc. It is something I am thinking about with each tournament though.
Linguini
Smash Master
lol yeah I used to be purp until like 09, then tipman passed it on to me. I give it up to tippy when we play and jason gives it up to me; dat seniority haha. Rockcrock owns original now imo. all other colors except for purp and original are whack lool
PseudoTurtle
Smash Champion
Nazi mods strike again!
X WaNtEd X
Smash Lord
My favorite color was purple as a kid. That's why I play purple Ganon.
I think purple Ganon is EC and blue is WC.
I think purple Ganon is EC and blue is WC.
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Coastward
Smash Lord
Divinokage
how do you actively change your mindset mid-match? like for example, let's say i'm close to winning the match and that becomes the only thing that's on my mind and it starts affecting my play - how do you go about clearing your head and focusing on the match quickly?
RedmanSSBM
Improving My Process
tm
Solid set vs Shady you had, though I felt like both of you could have done a lot better in some of the decision making. Shady looked like he had a lot of the upper hand for the set, but he over-committed a lot and got himself killed off stage for doing that off stage stuff. I feel like there were a lot of instances where you could have put out an upair faster than his nair, tm. I felt like there were some instances where moves were just a bit too slow and that you can beat out Falcon's stuff if you read it and do it quick enough. I think you could also do a better job of preventing yourself from getting grabbed by not throwing out moves in hopes that it will hit him and by shielding less and moving more. If that video goes up on YouTube anytime soon I'd be glad to analyze it on my stream and provide a lot more insight. Playing both Ganon and Falcon for so long allows me to understand this matchup pretty well.
Divinokage
Smash Legend
You have to realize you're doing it in the first place that's pretty much it. lol But you have to also be aware of how you feel as well. All I can say is that it takes a lot of practice to master your mind because the majority of people live by being task-oriented so normally you dont have a lot of time for yourself then you have no clue as to why things affect you the way they do. I believe I said before the way I did it is by always snapping myself to awareness if I ever drift in random thought then eventually I could enjoy the moment more. I believe thats the most important part, if you dont enjoy everything a battle has to offer then it becomes harder to relax.
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Indeed. I'm working on that. I recently started doing better against the shieks and falcons in the area because I started finding out exactly what I wanted to do in a match. Like I would notice them abusing shield so I would tomahawk or use an instant Uair scoop to upset their air movement for jump out of shield responses.
X WaNtEd X
Smash Lord
So I was messing around today and I figured out a technique to do dash pivot ftilts consistently. I have dash pivot jabs down, but I haven't been able to get pivot ftilts or dash pivot ftilts down. I also don't really know how to apply my dash pivot jabs. Whenever I use them I always am out of range and whiff. I guess my spacing is off, but I'm also just sort of randomly throwing them out in neutral.
Today I managed to do three dash pivot ftilts in a row, twice in a row a bunch of times, and got it out countless times in total. After barely being able to do one in 50 before, this feels like a breakthrough. Instead of flicking, I input the pivot with my thumb on the stick the whole time and press A at just the right moment. I kind of do a mini dash dance after dashing forward to make it work.
I feel like this could potentially add a lot of options to my neutral if I can master it, especially in the falcon matchup. Most of the situations I whiff pivot jab I'm barely out of range for jab, but definitely in range for ftilt. Anyone have any cool ideas of how to use it? Same goes for dash pivot jab.
Today I managed to do three dash pivot ftilts in a row, twice in a row a bunch of times, and got it out countless times in total. After barely being able to do one in 50 before, this feels like a breakthrough. Instead of flicking, I input the pivot with my thumb on the stick the whole time and press A at just the right moment. I kind of do a mini dash dance after dashing forward to make it work.
I feel like this could potentially add a lot of options to my neutral if I can master it, especially in the falcon matchup. Most of the situations I whiff pivot jab I'm barely out of range for jab, but definitely in range for ftilt. Anyone have any cool ideas of how to use it? Same goes for dash pivot jab.
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Diosama
Stand User
You know what's really sick is pivot wd off stage > reverse upair
n0ne does it in this game at 5:57 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByawjoHUSCU
n0ne does it in this game at 5:57 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByawjoHUSCU
Divinokage
Smash Legend
It's cooler when you do backward wavedash into pivot Fair the frame you are about to fall off or Uair too. That catches a lot of people as it's an instant different coverage type of move lol.
Mr.Cochise
Smash Cadet
Hey everyone.
I'm a competitive Street Fighter player who picked up melee a couple months ago. I recently switched from Zelda to Ganon about 2-3 months ago. While I understand that improving your punish game comes from you reading what your opponent does after they get hit,they tech and etc. I'm just wanting to make sure I'm not missing anything in trying to make my punish game stronger since improving your punish game in melee is so drastically different from any traditional fighter.
I'm a competitive Street Fighter player who picked up melee a couple months ago. I recently switched from Zelda to Ganon about 2-3 months ago. While I understand that improving your punish game comes from you reading what your opponent does after they get hit,they tech and etc. I'm just wanting to make sure I'm not missing anything in trying to make my punish game stronger since improving your punish game in melee is so drastically different from any traditional fighter.
YvngFlameHoe
Smash Ace
and apparently he was gonna pass it down to me, but I call horse ****. I WAS THE TRUE REDPurple has been a passed down color for the Ganon of the south. lol I only ever give it up for Tipman and Linguini cause they were the great Ganon's before me, then I switch over to blue.
Edit: Was eventually going to pass on the color to@YvugFlameHoe but we all know why he's not getting it.
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X WaNtEd X
Smash Lord
In what situation is pivot jab better than turn around jab out of an AC bair?
The pivot edgeguards are cool, but seem pretty situational. I'm talking more about using pivot jab and ftilt in neutral. And when I say dash pivot, I mean more like dashing forward, dashing back for one frame and pivoting out of that dash so you face the same way as you were originally. That way you can do a pivot jab or ftilt that isn't just retreating.
The punish game isn't only about reads. It's about understanding when you need to make a read and when you don't. Furthermore, when you do have to make reads, you need to mix up how you do them. In some instances, you can sort of coerce your opponent into doing what you want.
The pivot edgeguards are cool, but seem pretty situational. I'm talking more about using pivot jab and ftilt in neutral. And when I say dash pivot, I mean more like dashing forward, dashing back for one frame and pivoting out of that dash so you face the same way as you were originally. That way you can do a pivot jab or ftilt that isn't just retreating.
Hey man. Welcome to the Ganon boards.
The punish game isn't only about reads. It's about understanding when you need to make a read and when you don't. Furthermore, when you do have to make reads, you need to mix up how you do them. In some instances, you can sort of coerce your opponent into doing what you want.
Mr.Cochise
Smash Cadet
Well I wasn't sure how to exactly describe it. In a traditional fighting game when you punish something its literally because you know they did something unsafe like throw out a normal in a place they shouldn't have or did something unsafe on block or whiff. Or you baited them into doing something unsafe.Then you go with what could punish that. Sorry for trying to oversimplify it :\
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-ACE-
Gotem City Vigilante
X WaNtEd X
bwmat is just saying a smash turn and not a turn.
spider_sense
Smash Champion
Yo about to stream a few games with HiFox (pretty solid ass fawx main) twitch.tv/Hifox
Hi. Welcome to the Ganon boards. In Melee, a read refers to a prediction of how an opponent will act before they do it. For instance, if you read your opponent will approach, you can preemptively back up to position yourself for a counterattack before they even run towards you. Reads are different from reactions, which are responses to what the opponent does after they've done it. So instead of saying "reading what your opponent does after they get hit," we would say "reacting to what your opponent does when hit." It's an important distinction.
How is the punish game in Melee different from traditional fighters? Melee is the only fighting game I play, so I'm pretty ignorant of other fighting games.
X WaNtEd X
Smash Lord
I see. Well I think of smash turns as a very different thing from pivots I guess.
What you're saying about knowing when something is unsafe on block/whiff carries over to smash. However in smash, especially when you play a heavy character like Ganon, you block with both your shield and by crouch canceling. So there are different things that are unsafe on both states depending on a bunch of factors. And baiting people into doing unsafe things is huge as well.
However, Ganon has to get a lot of his openings by making reads. You pretty much read their movement and try to get a move out where you think they'll be ahead of time. What I was saying about knowing when you need to make a read and when you don't is important. When you land a hit like a jab, ftilt, or dash attack (sometimes it true combos but most of the time it doesn't) you get control, but you have to read what they do next in order to follow up. But grabs (in most matchups) and dair will give you free followups that don't require any reads.
So you're talking more about getting the punish in the first place. We think of that more or less as the neutral game. The punish game is basically how hard you punish when you get the opening.
What you're saying about knowing when something is unsafe on block/whiff carries over to smash. However in smash, especially when you play a heavy character like Ganon, you block with both your shield and by crouch canceling. So there are different things that are unsafe on both states depending on a bunch of factors. And baiting people into doing unsafe things is huge as well.
However, Ganon has to get a lot of his openings by making reads. You pretty much read their movement and try to get a move out where you think they'll be ahead of time. What I was saying about knowing when you need to make a read and when you don't is important. When you land a hit like a jab, ftilt, or dash attack (sometimes it true combos but most of the time it doesn't) you get control, but you have to read what they do next in order to follow up. But grabs (in most matchups) and dair will give you free followups that don't require any reads.
Mr.Cochise
Smash Cadet
Mr.Cochise
Smash Cadet
[QUOTE="X WaNtEd X, post: 20974876, member: 145504"
So you're talking more about getting the punish in the first place. We think of that more or less as the neutral game. The punish game is basically how hard you punish when you get the opening.
What you're saying about knowing when something is unsafe on block/whiff carries over to smash. However in smash, especially when you play a heavy character like Ganon, you block with both your shield and by crouch canceling. So there are different things that are unsafe on both states depending on a bunch of factors. And baiting people into doing unsafe things is huge as well.
However, Ganon has to get a lot of his openings by making reads. You pretty much read their movement and try to get a move out where you think they'll be ahead of time. What I was saying about knowing when you need to make a read and when you don't is important. When you land a hit like a jab, ftilt, or dash attack (sometimes it true combos but most of the time it doesn't) you get control, but you have to read what they do next in order to follow up. But grabs (in most matchups) and dair will give you free followups that don't require any reads.[/QUOTE]
I understand what you mean. Baiting is a large part of any fighting game its just in melee there are way more options to do that since you have a second jump to bait something along with ridiculous movement options etc. . Plus generally in Street Fighter jumping is really bad about 95% of the time and you only have your dashes and walkspeeds to move. So for me its been a huge learning experience. People in my region feel that I'm strong at the neutral game because of my fundamentals from other games. Its just learning "the melee things" as one of the PRed players put it has been a struggle. D DCW
So you're talking more about getting the punish in the first place. We think of that more or less as the neutral game. The punish game is basically how hard you punish when you get the opening.
What you're saying about knowing when something is unsafe on block/whiff carries over to smash. However in smash, especially when you play a heavy character like Ganon, you block with both your shield and by crouch canceling. So there are different things that are unsafe on both states depending on a bunch of factors. And baiting people into doing unsafe things is huge as well.
However, Ganon has to get a lot of his openings by making reads. You pretty much read their movement and try to get a move out where you think they'll be ahead of time. What I was saying about knowing when you need to make a read and when you don't is important. When you land a hit like a jab, ftilt, or dash attack (sometimes it true combos but most of the time it doesn't) you get control, but you have to read what they do next in order to follow up. But grabs (in most matchups) and dair will give you free followups that don't require any reads.[/QUOTE]
I understand what you mean. Baiting is a large part of any fighting game its just in melee there are way more options to do that since you have a second jump to bait something along with ridiculous movement options etc. . Plus generally in Street Fighter jumping is really bad about 95% of the time and you only have your dashes and walkspeeds to move. So for me its been a huge learning experience. People in my region feel that I'm strong at the neutral game because of my fundamentals from other games. Its just learning "the melee things" as one of the PRed players put it has been a struggle. D DCW
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X WaNtEd X
Smash Lord
Yeah people that come into smash from street fighter usually start like that from my experience playing ex street fighter players. But honestly, Ganon is a pretty good character to transition to from street fighter because he's a lot more grounded than a lot of characters are.
Mr.Cochise
Smash Cadet
Well I haven't exactly quit SF
but yeah maining zelda was a lot of fun. Ganon has made me enjoy the game even more.