How to teach someone Melee?

[Avalancer]

I have a few friends who are interested in competitive play and the tournament scene, and they want me to teach them.
I'm a pretty good Falco player, I know all needed techniques (I can SHFFL, waveshine, jump-grab, SHL, and some other ****), and I have some tournament experience.
Anyway, how do I teach someone how to play Melee on an advanced level? (they are all shiek mainers btw)

 

[Dan Salvato]

I'll give what little input I have. The way I see it is that there are two components to Melee: Tech skill and strategy.

As for tech skill, teach them one thing at a time. Teach them L-cancelling and don't move on until it's natural to them. Then, move on to the next tech skill.
As you go about this procedure, you have plenty of time to teach them the strategy aspect. Talk about the game to them while they play. For example, if you punish them, tell them why you were able to do so and how they can avoid it, etc. This will teach them game strategy and they will learn from their mistakes. You have to force them out of autopilot and make them think hard about every one of their approaches and actions. I find that these players do a LOT of things without thinking about it first, so do what you can to break that habit.

 

[Avalancer]

They tech by natural, but they don't see a purpose for L-cancelling. They are having trouble shorthopping with Shiek. They also jump by pressing up on the control stick, and they think it's easier than pressing a button (I use Y/X). Should I teach them to jump with a button instead?

 

[ShroudedOne]

I think that...it's probably best to get them short hopping with Sheik with X or Y. I thought that a button would be too hard when I came over, but I did it for a little bit, and soon it was natural. Tell them that its easier to learn how to jump with a button now than later, when you need to be able to jump without inputting a direction. If they use control stick, it'll be harder to jump and use an attack, and harder to use more precise button inputs (which they will need).

Tell them all to play with Ganon or Link for a little bit, (or even Falco or Falcon), and they'll realize why they need L-cancelling. Quickly. In fact, what may be more effective would be to play with Sheik against them, and show them how much faster she can move with L-cancelling. And emphasize how important faster movement is.

 

[EthereaL]

If they want you to teach them, but don't listen to what you have to say (regarding L-cancels)...

Heh.

Basic things that can always improve:

1. L-cancels/Ground techs. These should never be missed, unless it's on purpose.

2. Character mobility. Platform mobility, wavedashing, wavelanding, DI while attacking, fast falling, SHFFL'ing dash dancing, ledge options. Also all character-specific things fall in here (SHL, wave-shining, shine-spiking, SWD, float cancel, etc).

3. Spacing. Grab range, attack hitboxes.

4. DI. SDI, and regular DI. Control-stick wobbling.

5. Powersheilding Falco's Lasers. Yes, it's that important.

6. Character Match-ups. Options against each DI, tech chasing options, shield pressure, what combos at what percents work on which characters, character advantages, character disadvantages.

7. Stage Match-ups. Mobility, platform influence, advantages/disadvantages of what stages for what characters.


And that's essentially it.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

I still have not seen anyone power shield lasers with a whole lot of consistency. Maybe a laser out of every 10, but not consecutive ones in a row.

Also, there isn't a need to teach them to jump with the buttons. They can become consistent at it if they practice. The just need to practice what works for them. You just need show the multiple ways they can go about doing things and the options that are available to them. Once you do that, it's up to them how they will play the game.

 

[Bones0]

lol @ teaching a beginner how to power shield. You need insane amounts of knowledge of the nuance and subtlety of movement techniques before you can begin to even attempt to power shield consistently. You don't want them try to power shield random things when they should be focused on their spacing, whether or not they can shield grab, and how to get out of their shield safely.

 

[EthereaL]

lol @ teaching a beginner how to power shield. You need insane amounts of knowledge of the nuance and subtlety of movement techniques before you can begin to even attempt to power shield consistently. You don't want them try to power shield random things when they should be focused on their spacing, whether or not they can shield grab, and how to get out of their shield safely.

Someone obviously attributed no meaning whatsoever to the number ordering.

Regarding powershielding being difficult to do, that's why I can say it can always improve. And, even 1/8 or 1/10 is a huge deterrence to Falco's approach over the course of a game, let alone a set.

 

[Massive]

lol @ teaching a beginner how to power shield. You need insane amounts of knowledge of the nuance and subtlety of movement techniques before you can begin to even attempt to power shield consistently. You don't want them try to power shield random things when they should be focused on their spacing, whether or not they can shield grab, and how to get out of their shield safely.

Powershielding was my first advanced tactic, it's just timing.

Teach them L-Cancelling, shieldgrabbing, and wavelanding (not dashing).

They'll work the rest out on their own.

 

[Teczer0]

Why not just teach the very basics first?

Standard rulesets, basic tech skill, and common habits people fall into that they should avoid.

All the other stuff can come from playing people, at tournies, and as people get into it just talk about the game more.

No need to overwhelm people.

 

[ShroudedOne]

I still have not seen anyone power shield lasers with a whole lot of consistency. Maybe a laser out of every 10, but not consecutive ones in a row.

Also, there isn't a need to teach them to jump with the buttons. They can become consistent at it if they practice. The just need to practice what works for them. You just need show the multiple ways they can go about doing things and the options that are available to them. Once you do that, it's up to them how they will play the game.

Let me introduce you to Armada...

EDIT: And now I'm a a complete loss, as I can't find any vids of him powershielding more than one laser in a row. But I know he's done it.

 

[t3h Icy]

Show him Diakonos or Mahie for powershielding.

 

[Avalancer]

Overtime they started to figure the simple things out by themselfs, like DI and powershielding, and because I regularly spam my SHL they start to get the hang of powershielding them. They keep trying to mimic the way I wavedash and ask me how, but I tell them they shouldn't focus on that at the moment.
As a Shiek, is wavedashing really that important? (I'm talking wavedashing, not landing)

Also, if they get a bit better, should I try bringing them to some small tournaments? I've been thinking if it would be good for them as they would get a good feel of how good some people are, and they would also get to play against new opponents besides me and my teammate.

 

[Metal Reeper]

Wavedashing isn't extremely useful with every character, but is needed. WD OoS is sooo good.
Get them to practice their wavedashes. Tell them to practice dash dancing and when you teach all of them this give them applications so they can see when to use what you are teaching.
While you are playing a match if they roll right into your attack or something stupid, seriously say to them "Don't roll there" or if you punish them for jumping or something let them know that they have made a mistake. When I played Vex he would say things like that to me and I got a lot better for only playing him a few matches.

 

[Avalancer]

I usually make them learn from their mistakes. If they forget to hold A before a match I combo kill their Zelda as they keep trying to transform. I blatantly tell them if they don't use the slap enough, or when they forget to do certain stuff, like dthrow to f-tilt and stuff. They are mostly having the trouble of using the wrong attack because they need to think fast in the heat of the situation.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

@ShroudedOne: I just didn't think powershielding falco's lasers was an extremely important thing to learn (at least the way Ether made it sound like). Most of high tier get around his lasers in various ways. Falco cannot hit anyone on lower platforms without using a full hop, and by baiting this they can get close to falco. Also, you can learn to take hits from lasers and not be affected by what falco does next. OS wavedash is pretty good too.

They keep trying to mimic the way I wavedash and ask me how, but I tell them they shouldn't focus on that at the moment.

Also, if they get a bit better, should I try bringing them to some small tournaments?

I don't think you should hold back information. If you know something and someone asks a question about how to do "X" thing, you should tell them.

 

[Avalancer]

question about how to do "X" thing, you should tell them.

Really? I'm afraid they'll get overwhelmed trying to learn everything at once. Although they do kinda know how to, they don't know how to shorthop, so would still be pretty difficult for them.

 

[Superspright]

I can PS Falco's lasers in a row, and his attacks. The most PS's I've ever gotten in a match is probably over 20. In a row, maybe 7. I have disgusting timing for powershields though. I PS lots of attacks with straight prediction though. Shines, peach's nair, etc. Most people PS, but never use the frame advantage to punish. All I do is practice that--side-b out, fsmash out, up-b out, etc.

The best way to PS falco's lasers tho, is to PS the laser and wavedash up--PS it, and roll with it toward falco (if your roll is fast enough, or if you can roll behind him), or PS it then jab, or another option. Most Falco's time their lasers to hit you when they approach--or to zone. But if they are approaching with lasers you can walk up/run up PS then pick an option. Takes 1 frame to shilelddrop off a PS'd laser.

 

[EthereaL]

Moving on...start with the basics I listed.

 

[DerfMidWest]

explain to them that L-canceling will make them faster and less vulnerable and that they will see the importance of it once they get better.

Sheiks wavedash is really easy to do so i guess you should teach that to them, but they probably won't know how to incorporate that into real play so yea.

teach them how to jump-cancel grabs. its not that hard to learn. also tell them to switch to x/y for jumping. once they get used to it, they'll realize that its much better. for shorthopping have them go into training mode on x2 speed and try to short hop (with x or y) for about 5-10 minutes, then have them go into x1/4 for like 1 minute and do it, then put them back on regular speed and make them try it and have them do that like everyday as a warm up and eventually they should get it (thats how i taught myself to shorthop).

main thing is teach them techchasing and chaingrabbing and some edgeguardy stuff. uber basics before you teach them advanced stuff.

 

[Deleted member]

see if they enjoy the game first. if they don't enjoy it now, they're not going to when it becomes a lot of work. it's a serious time investment.