How to Start and End a Match [Many more machups added (By you guys, thanks pentaoku)]

[Nubis]

Hey guys, I've been playing smash since the N64, but I've never come through to the forums, smash community and what not. Just letting you know that I exist, and am a very competetive gamer. Enough about me though, because I made this topic about lucario, my main. Moving on.

I've had the English version of brawl since it game out, in america, and went through characters to find specific qualities in one that I would want to main. Lucario fit perfectly. He can wall jump, wall cling, has great recovery, good aerial play, good mind games with his crazy dodge, and a great projectile. He even has a special characteristic that no other has; to gain power as his damage goes up. Now, the meat of the topic:

How to begin a match

You probably all know how this goes, well, you might not. So this is it for all of the
beginner-intermediate players, or even experts who don't know about lucario, but want to know more. You should Also check out the sticky guide if you are lost.

To start out a match with lucario I usually chain grab with force palm, his B> move. This goes till about 35% on most characters, but heavier ones like bowser, can go all the way to 70%. Good move to rack up damage.

Next, you'll want to ftilt, following up with a smash or another force palm; you could also use an AAA combo, or Utilt combo, or a mix of these things, as they can set you up for some combos. This will most likely send the opponent far enough for you to charge an aura sphere enough to knock them back some more.

[Note: All through out the match, you should Spam Dair, alot, because it has good priority, knockback, range, etc.]

At this point, you'll be wanting to spam aura spheres, until they have 100+ damage on them. The reason behind this is they will be dodging and jumping their way through a field of little aura spheres, which all do a decent amount of damage, knocking them back a bit. Mix it up a bit. Jump + aura sphere will help you hit them while they are in the air. Make a few big aura spheres and a few small aura spheres. If you short hop + release fully charged aura sphere, the only way they can avoid it is to dodge or to jump high in the air, making them vonurable, a good chance to hit them while they are recovering from dodge / landing frames.

Finishing them off, I suggest you use one of these moves. These are in my opinion the best attacks while the energy is at a higher % damage.

To finish:
* = not going to mention these, why would I mention something you shouldn't use for Koing.
** = alright
*** = good
**** = great
***** = as much as you can

Choices are

COUNTER B-Down:
Aghha woot. This is crazy, because this counters damage depends on YOU and not the strength of your enemies attack. It's power/knockback depends on how much damage you have, and even when you have little damage, can still KO. Dont forget to use this move, as it also negated damage that would normally be done to you by an attack (you can avoid projectiles and stuff too)
Rating: ****

Force palm:
Now this move is pretty fun for KOing, especially if they are lighter. You will want to get them in the sweetspot of the move, resulting in the grab, because if you nick them with the long end, it may just send them flying. Comes out fast if you sweetspot. May kill Ike at about 145 +(correct me if i'm wrong, I haven't really tested it that much), and lighter characters at 120+
Rating: **

Fsmash:
Well, needless to say, this move is painstakingly slow. Slow as hell. Slow as Ike. I dont use it too often, but still, good power, great range.
Rating: ***

Ftilt:
Heres a move I really like. Good range, good priority, great knockback for a tilt. You may have to be kind of close to the edge since its a tilt, and most tilts dont have 1337 omg knockback.
Rating: ****

DSmash:
I gotta love it. Comes out fast for one of lucarios smash attacks, hits on BOTH sides. Great knockback and range. Also, since it comes out on both sides, It's good for catching people who roll all over the place.
Rating: ****

Bair:
I know, I've repeated this so many times but this time I really mean it. I LOVE THIS MOVE. Comes out faster than you can say "PWNED". Again, great knockback, priority (thanks to its disjointed hitbox), and range ofcourse, and hey, its an aerial. props.
Rating: *****

Aura Sphere:
(SOURCE OF LUCARIOS POWER!)
This move is truly and surely amazing. Gets huge and get great knockback and speed as, thanks to lucarios ability to increase his aura move's powers. Spam this when they are at high percents, even if you are not, It will pwn. A fully charged one will be your best friend for finishing people.
Rating: ********************************************************************
(rating is not a typo)

UAir:
Fun fun fun. Use this on people who take a good beating when they fly up, like jiggleypuff. Good power, good knockback.
Rating: ***

Dtilt:
Eh, why not. Dtilt could set you up for something good, like an fsmash. If they have enough damage, and you need a fast attack, use this.
Rating: **

Utilt:
Pretty good. Could set you up for a Uair, or bair. Hits all around, decent knockback, not to mention the good damage you could get from a utilt combo.
Rating: ****
(edited another star in because I agree with var and kaze, I didn't give it enough credit)

Dair:
Another one of those amazing moves. I spam this ALOT. I mean, whenever I am in the air, and they are anywhere remotely around me. Great knockback, Disjointed hitbox, good priority, and makes you stay in the air for longer, stall. This is good for mind games, even if it isn't the best finishing move, use it well, and use it alot.
Rating: ****(*)
(an extra star if im not talking about finishing moves.)

AAA Combo:
Comes out fast, midrange, and the third strike has good knockback. Nice overall, Great thing about it is it comes out very quickly compared to alot of lucario's moves.
Rating: ***(*)
(extra star because, and I quote from Nessbounder's post)

It's fast, safe and recharges your stale aura sphere faster than anything else.

Thanks

Nair:
Well I personally enjoy this move, perhaps because it has a good hitbox, not alot of beginning lag time, good knockback and power, and it's hitbox lasts a good amount of frames. A good comboing move.
Rating: ****

Match Ups

Diddy Kong:
Hes fast, and he has a pretty good moveset. Diddy is good at dodging your aura spheres, since hes small, fast, and has a horizontal jump (His B-> Move). I suggest you use your advantage of disjointed hitboxes against him, since diddy has mainly short ranged A attacks.

Ike:
Ike's attacks are extremely slow, however, his B -> dash Can dash him from one side of the stage to the other very quickly. Watch out for Ike's range and power, He can be unpredictable depending on who is playing as him. Fast, good range attack can help against ike. Ike has horrible recovery for the most part, so, this is good news for you.

King Dedede:
He is heavy and has great range, as well as a ranged attack. His recovery is very good. You could spam aura spheres against him alot, and grab him alot. Watch out for his chain grab. A skilled dedede is very dangerous. It's pretty easy to see his attacks coming, especially his Fsmash. This means you can counter him pretty easily.

Meta knight:
Meta knight is very dangerous. Hes fast, fast attacks, great recovery, and he can put on some damage. And he can put on some more damage. And he can deal some damage. And he can do more damage. And more damage... And then, What? Oh thats right, he doesn't finish well!
Take advantage of this. If he knows what hes doing, he will most likely beat you, but, If you can mindgame/ outwork him, you could take the win.

Wolf:
Thanks to pentaoku

Wolf: First I gotta say, spamming Aura Sphere is not a wise idea against Wolf. Not just because of the reflector, but you want to save Aura Sphere for edge guarding and finishing on Wolf, so you don't want it to get stale. Since Wolf's blaster phases past Aura Sphere, it's kind of pointless to do a projectile camp war.

Wolf players love to use their back air like Kirby and DeDeDe players do. It's got slightly longer range than it looks, and it's powerful too. However if you forward air with proper spacing, Wolf's back air isn't as big of a problem as it could be. Wolf has lots of trouble chasing you if you are above him, since his up air isn't very efficient in catching you, especially with your down air and ease of aerial control compared to him. Overall, you will probably defeat Wolf if he tries to make it an aerial game. Sometimes he uses his blaster in the air, but unless it's from a short hop and you're on the ground, it's not really that scary.

The problem is, Wolf doesn't rely on his aerial game for everything. He's got a stellar ground game. His forward smash is annoying since you can't shield grab it unless he barely taps you with it. Downsmash has to be perfect shielded or you will be swatted back. However you can probably aura sphere out of shield from a down smash. Forward smash is too slow. Surprisingly enough, Wolf's up smash is not too big a worry. The start up of the attack sometimes knocks you out of the hitbox range for the second, and more deadly hit. It often won't catch you, even in hypen smashes, so long as you pay attention, since Wolf doesn't like to do his dash attack incredibly often either, due it leading to aerial combat. While these ground moves are dangerous, Wolf enjoys short hop back airs. Again you can interecept them with proper fairs and even nairs, but it can be risky. Short hop, no lag fairs are dangerous too since they have high vertical knockback, but luckily worse distance than that of back air. On the ground and short hopped air, Lucario can maintain control or at least even ground with his ability to stay at a decent range with his quick tilts. Though Wolf's forward tilt is really annoying. Lucario's forward smash can be used to catch constant back air happy Wolves, and Lucario's up tilt and down smash both stop rolling Wolves. Wolf is easier to grab than other characters due to his erratic attacks having the tendency to whiff. Wolf is also a nice chain grab target. Wolf's only throw you should be wary of is down throw, since it can lead into a blaster, a forwardsmash, and various other things. Jumping however prevents most of these scenarios, but just don't get mind gamed. Ah, and one last thing, his reflector is annoying. Don't let it irritate you though, once you get hit, get out of the way or he'll pretty much follow up and hit you, possibly with down or forward smash.

Wolf's recovery isn't the best, but it's not terrible. Wolf's "Fire" Wolf is easy to stop, and it often won't help a Wolf player much. Though it can be annoying since it has good distance and the ending kick can hurt. Still, gimping Fire Wolf is not too hard. However, Flash Wolf or whatever it's called is very annoying to gimp. Lucario has to stop it in the beginning of the attack in most cases to prevent it from happening, and it doesn't happen often. Trying to gimp the end of the attack is risky due to the powerful ending hitbox it has. Wolf also likes to use it in certain stages to phase through the stage to bypass edgeguarding. But if you can predict this occuring, you can punish Wolf. Oh, and Aura Sphere can keep Wolf from recovering at likeable elevations, and this can be very useful on "lip" stages like Lylat and Final Destination.

And lastly, Wolf likes to edge guard and hog. Wolf like's his spike if you're not too high up from the stage, though if you're quick and somewhat lucky, you can recover from the spike and force him to Fire Wolf you back onto the stage. However if you are reasonably high up, Wolf will prefer an attempt to back air/pseudo wall of pain on you, or just fair you into oblivion. Forward air accordingly, and this means nothing to you. Fast falling could work too, but beware the spike. Also if you're far away and not high enough to back air, he'll just edgehog. If you can, aim for a wall to wall hang, or fire an Aura Sphere.

Snake:
Quoted from Tapia

"A good snake will have his mines in coordinated spots.
Make sure you don't forget where his mines are! Especially his remote detonated mine! (Don't forget!!! his mines if on a platform like Smash or Laylat, the explosion goes under the platform too! if you can ban his Laylat, the mix of the maps combat in the background and rocks flying will make it hard to see his nades and mines!)

I found if you can stay in his face and watch out for his quick grabs into tilts, with Lucario's A-jab combo and his a 1,2 over-B's work well. A major thing i learned from playing some good snakes are their grenade positioning. They'll play mindgames with them. With snakes edge guarding, when they use those mortars, if you have an extra jump and can get back without hanging on the edge, you can kick the mortars and blow them up without taking dmg, i found if you can get close to the edge and fake a grab and Up-B into the middle of the map, it helps.


Lucario as we know sometimes take a bit to kill people, to add onto it, snakes grenades can cancel our Aura spheres. So killing him gets tricky at times. I learned if you can stack damage on him fast and try and kill him around 120%-130% with the 2 A-jabs into over-B it can kill him.

The main advice i can give, is play simple, use N-a combo's and keep the damage coming onto him, don't let him get into his little tactical groove! Just watch his pattern and look for a flaw, eventually he will mess up on something, that's your time to go in for a punish and take your chance at a smash, The snake i play against likes to rush in, and shield and try and go for a grab. if hes trying to fake into a shield grab, rush in and just grab him.
Grabs keep him out of groove and off the map, which means less nades. "

Vs toon link (Thanks pentaoku)

Toon Link: Toon Link, quick, nimble, and annoying with projectiles. If you stay away too long, he'll definately choose projectiles, yet at close range, his insanely powerful smashes (not his forward smash in most cases though) can KO you quick. However all is not bleak in this match up.

First of all, both Lucario and Toon Link excel in the air. Toon Link's up air is very annoying to you, since it WILL stop your down air. So don't try to down air spam unless he whiffed any of the other aerials. Toon Link's real problems lie in his back air and neutral air. Forward air is a bit slower than back air, noticablely enough to not be as threatening. Back air will outrange you unless you use your own back air, or you stay under it and nair/uair him. If you won't go on the counter-offensive, at least get away from the back air, as it can combo you. While annoying in the air, you'd best fear it from short hops, as it is a mean attack from short hops. Neutral air is just quick and annoying, like our own neutral air for other players. It's not terribly hard to avoid, but it can be very annoying as a harassing method. In times like these, Aura Spheres are very handy. Overall you want to just gain more control in the air than he does. Fast falling to re-jump helps, and float palming has great distance, though it is hard to hit with. His down air can be seen coming if you are near him while he isn't finishing or doing any other aerial. If it's too close, it might just spike you back to the stage anyway (or worse, off the stage), but if it's at a distance, you better not be at too high a percent. If you're on the ground and think you can see a down air coming, double team can punish him.

On the ground, you've gotta worry about those projectiles at a distance, but his sword up close. The worse of these two is probably the projectiles. The boomerang is very annoying, and the bombs may force you to shield when you don't want to. The Bow and Arrows aren't too bad though. Staying near Toon link, but out of his range is wise. Lucario's forward and down tilt have good range. You can trip Toon Link up this way. Your smashes will also punish any of his whiffed forward smashes. His tilts aren't harsh enough to warrant a lot, but his neutral A combo gets annoying. In close combat, you actually have somewhat of an advantage due to your incredibly quick rolls, and shield pestering attacks. Toon Link's grab is risky for him to do, so you shouldn't worry about it much, and it's not incredibly deadly either.

Toon Link has decent recovery. He can bomb jump, though it is a bit hard. His tether is terrible quite frankly, and his up B can stage spike you. It's best to keep him as horizontal from the stage as possible and gimp his while he's still out, to force him to jump. From then on it isn't too bad, but unless you have an Aura Sphere at the ready, expect him to make it back to the stage from higher distances. Oh but then again, those are nice opportunities to try your back air finishes.

As for gimping YOU... Toon Link will either rely on his projectiles, or quicker aerials. Some may apt to spike you, despite how risky it is. His aerials are the real worry while recovering, but otherwise, Toon Link gimping you is the least of your worries. His smashes and up air should annoying you much more.

Pokemon trainer (Thanks pentaoku)

Pokemon Trainer: I won't be too detailed here, but I'll give a rough overview for the match ups for now. You've got the aerial maniac Squirtle with harsh ground finishers, Ivysaur who can rack up percents quick and use deadly finishers, and Charizard who's mainly got finishers, and the ever annoying rock smash.

In aerial combat, the key things to worry about are Squirtle's forward and back airs. They often will hit you even though you will often hit Squirtle with forward air. Your back air is pretty safe though. His down air can be trouble some, but if you're underneath Squirtle, he can't really get to you unless he fast falls, so go ahead and try up airs. His up air doesn't really stop your down air. Ivysaur's got a killer up air that's quick and fast. However other than that, only back air will annoy you, due to the others being pretty easy to see coming. Fair from Ivy is always pretty much a jump directly at you. However what's annoying is Charizard's neck. His up air WILL reach you before you can shoot off your down air in most cases. Otherwise just becareful of the power of his other aerials. Range isn't a huge issue except for Charizard's forward air, which is annoying while you try to recover.

On the ground, Squirtle's got annoying jabs, so focus on using your range. You can expect Squirtle to use Withdraw if you start to charge up a smash trying to predict a move and fail. Squirtle's tilts are annoying too, but still... annoying is the best these moves can be. Downsmash isn't that great unless you're FAR too roll happy for your own good. Forward smash is slow, and up smash is almost always done in a dash, in which the only other case is a dash attack. The same applies to Ivysaur's up smash, and hell, practically Charizard's too. Ivysaur will lose in a projectile spamming contest, but Bullet Seed will rack your percent up quick. As will rock smash. The main worry from Charizard are his tilts and his down smash, which all have great range. Also becareful, his forward smash has two hit boxes, and hitting the first may not always stop him from going to his second, more powerful, hit box. Oh yeah, Squirtle+Zard's down throws kill.

Thats all the matchups for now, more later.

B-Sticking
What is b-sticking?
B-sticking is when you set up your controller so that the C-Stick (yellow stick on GC controller) is set to Special instead of Attack. When fighting, If you run in one direction, jump, and hit the c-stick in the opposite direction you are running, [some characters] will move in the direction you are hitting your c-stick in, in midair. Thus creating a retreating b move. Lucas and Lucario show the most distance traveled when b-sticking.

Application
If you are Lucario, and you decide to b-stick, you will do a retreating force palm. This is pretty cool. It is pretty hard to grab an opponent while force palming in the air, and even harder to sweet spot the force palm while b-sticking it, therefore, the Force palm will most likely hit at the knockback/damage part of it's hitbox. This is cool though still, because anything that can help your spacing is great. The only problem is, force palm is pretty slow, so make sure not to spam it all the time.

All in all, b-sticking lucario's force palm is great for spacing, mindgames, etc. but shouldn't be spammed like lucas's PK fire b-stick, (best not to spam lucario's b-stick at all, use sparingly in my opinion)

His aura sphere b-stick is a little more complicated to use, and is better probably.
Takin a quote from ~shin~

The hardest form of B-sticking is doing a Aurasphere, and, if your asking me, the only way to B-stick with Lucario is by using the Aurasphere.
To do that, you just have to barely tilt the C-stick (remember our C-stick is on special moves now, not smashes)
and you should begin charging.
Pushing the C-stick barely, and getting that Aurasphere off, while in the middle of fierce combat is HARD... But i've been VERY happy with the results when I've done it correctly.

I just came out of no where, its a start.

Comments and stuff is appreciated, Thanks.

Btw if you want to pm me your strats against other chars or misc stuff about lucario ill be happy to add it to my guide

 

[Nubis]

where is everyone oO

 

[Izmo]

Good post

I tend to be a bit more conservative on my Aura Spheres, but I don't know if that's because I'm afraid of the Stale Moves syndrome or if I just have to fight too many Lucas players -_-

The D-Smash Roll punishment's an excellent point too. I had almost written that move off until I got used to working it in at those times, and now it's used alot.

 

[Nubis]

Good post

I tend to be a bit more conservative on my Aura Spheres, but I don't know if that's because I'm afraid of the Stale Moves syndrome or if I just have to fight too many Lucas players -_-

The D-Smash Roll punishment's an excellent point too. I had almost written that move off until I got used to working it in at those times, and now it's used alot.

Yea The only time I don't spam aura spheres is when I am fighting fox, lucas, ness, and wolf sometimes. they pull out reflect too quickly.

Another thing I forgot too mention, Dont ever use counter in the air when you are to the side of a stage. You will die if your counter works. (fall WAY down the stage lol)

 

[Var]

Utilt is a lot better than you give it credit. Its large arch range and sheer spamability and power (for a tilt) make it an amazing move.

 

[koikaze]

I find it useful to spam Aura Sphere. It disrupts the opponent. But then again, keeping a fully charged one makes your opponent wary.

I don't use D-Smash as much as I should. Rolling is annoying -.-

You can also start off with Utilt combo. It can go till 40% or so.

 

[Nubis]

I find it useful to spam Aura Sphere. It disrupts the opponent. But then again, keeping a fully charged one makes your opponent wary.

I don't use D-Smash as much as I should. Rolling is annoying -.-

You can also start off with Utilt combo. It can go till 40% or so.

Utilt combo is very good to spam, but If you are fighting a fast, mid-long range char like ZSS, Its kinda hard to spam utilt alot. This beginning guide was to help you fight a more general, wide spread bunch of characters. Thanks for mentioning it though, I sure didn't

Btw I've seen your video vs falco. Nice Lucario, keep it coming, may be able to make a few vids soon.

 

[NESSBOUNDER]

I think you should mention the AAA combo more. It's fast, safe and recharges your stale aura sphere faster than anything else.

Aside from that, this is a solid strategy and match plan.

 

[Nubis]

I think you should mention the AAA combo more. It's fast, safe and recharges your stale aura sphere faster than anything else.

Aside from that, this is a solid strategy and match plan.

Thanks, I'll be sure to edit and mention some AAA combo in here.

 

[Jeepy Sol]

I think double team is also worth mentioning as a good finisher. Timed properly, and at the right percentage (USUALLY about 120%) it will KO the opponent off the top of the stage.

 

[Ryofoong]

I find lucario's double team to be useful in alot of situations. Such as when fighting people are get smash happy, or don't grab alot. And then when you land it they get scared to go too offensive, allowing you to. Though, it's not a spam-able move.

 

[koikaze]

What I have found, if you BAS (Baby Aura Sphere) them, they get so annoyed that they will be more aggressive and that is when D+B shines. (I'm not sure if that will work on a pro level)

What do people think of Usmash? I think it is a very bad move. The hit box is so wonky.

 

[Ryofoong]

I find his upsmash only useful on stages with platforms. Since his upsmash hits a little higher than his uptilt it works when you dash and upsmash someone who's DIing towards a platform. His utilt isn't very good when someone is on a platform since it needs to hit at the peak of the utilt. Note: This is from experience on battlefield, not sure about other platform stages. But it is hard to land, when it does land it usually KO's. Use sparingly.

 

[Nubis]

Usmash = VERY situational

What I have found, if you BAS (Baby Aura Sphere) them, they get so annoyed that they will be more aggressive and that is when D+B shines. (I'm not sure if that will work on a pro level)

What do people think of Usmash? I think it is a very bad move. The hit box is so wonky.

I never use Usmash unless The character Im fighting is a slow faller, falling from a single jump, and has low priority and is slow. Very sparingly, I use it. Any time I need an up attack, I would just use uptilt, since it could set you up very nicely for aerial combos, such as Uair, uair, jump, fair, fair, land grab, throw, aura sphere. GG :D

 

[Ryofoong]

I never use Usmash unless The character Im fighting is a slow faller, falling from a single jump, and has low priority and is slow. Very sparingly, I use it. Any time I need an up attack, I would just use uptilt, since it could set you up very nicely for aerial combos, such as Uair, uair, jump, fair, fair, land grab, throw, aura sphere. GG :D

Yeah, an up tilt is preferable but if you use it too much your opponent will understand it's timing. Though that won't be a problem much, since you can pull out a second one really fast, the Usmash can be used. Although, never as a substitute for an uptilt. All moves can be used for mindgames :D

 

[Greenpoe]

Amazing post. I'm going to bookmark this one! Thanks a ton, I had no idea Lucario could chain grab!

 

[Nubis]

anyone have something to say about my guide?

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

sry if im wrong, but don't B attacks (force palm, aura sphere, double team) not get stale moves? If they do, my brother lies to me ;_;

 

[NeptunerAV]

yeah all attacks get stale im pretty sure.

Does any1 use counter to KO? I've done it a couple times =X

 

[DarkDragoon]

XD Good stuff.
But sticky has nothing to do with views, its more like if a mod finds the post to be like the second coming of Jesus.
Uhh...FSmash comes out just as fast as his BAir, and just has like, 50% more ending lag. Its really fast for a smash, and its range is greater than Marths or DeDeDe's FSmashes(DeDeDe's by the tiniest bit).
Its awesome for KOs, and self-spaces.
-DD

 

[Nubis]

XD Good stuff.
But sticky has nothing to do with views, its more like if a mod finds the post to be like the second coming of Jesus.
Uhh...FSmash comes out just as fast as his BAir, and just has like, 50% more ending lag. Its really fast for a smash, and its range is greater than Marths or DeDeDe's FSmashes(DeDeDe's by the tiniest bit).
Its awesome for KOs, and self-spaces.
-DD

thanks,
Fsmash is just something that is great for Koing, with a bit of lag. I don't spam it because they will expect it, and shield it. then I will get punished since it has post lag. :D

 

[Orpheus]

Nice post! Kudos to you ^^

 

[Hyprodimus Prime]

I liked the guide, thanks. Ill try using more chain grabs with Lucario. What does "stale" mean? And how do you do a back-air going forward? Oh ya, as a side note, what does "zoned" mean? You can PM me if you want.

 

[Nubis]

I liked the guide, thanks. Ill try using more chain grabs with Lucario. What does "stale" mean? And how do you do a back-air going forward? Oh ya, as a side note, what does "zoned" mean? You can PM me if you want.

Stale means the move gets less knockback and damage as you spam it. If you use it and it connects, and you just keep spamming it, it will get worse.
The AAA combo reverses this stale effect more quickly than most other moves.

You do a back air going forward by jumping in one direction, and C-Sticking backwards in the other.

 

[Ilucamy]

Are you talking about finishing moves for the move listing? If not, you should add the fair, it's good for combos.

 

[O.d.L]

really good post!

 

[PK-ow!]

anyone have something to say about my guide?

Just one question - how? How can you prescribe moves to use in sequence? It has to account for what the opponent is doing, moment-to-moment. I'm quite sure that coping is much more relevant and effective than planning in playing smash.

Sure, you can offer 'offsets' for specific matchups, but how can any guide like this be effective?

 

[Nubis]

Just one question - how? How can you prescribe moves to use in sequence? It has to account for what the opponent is doing, moment-to-moment. I'm quite sure that coping is much more relevant and effective than planning in playing smash.

Sure, you can offer 'offsets' for specific matchups, but how can any guide like this be effective?

Im simply giving examples of moves you could use in a succession in certain situations.

 

[O.d.L]

Does any1 use counter to KO? I've done it a couple times =X

i've done it :D and its really cool >,<

 

[koikaze]

Does any1 use counter to KO? I've done it a couple times =X

All the time. I think it is one of the best KO moves Lucario has.

 

[Nubis]

Im glad you guys found my guide helpful, Ive been studying for finals so its hard to do other things lately. Sorry if I cant update alot, I'll probably add a B-Sticking section to the guide soon, and I'll discuss its usefulness. If you guys have anything to add to my guide, pm, and I'll add it to the guide if it's useful information. For example, I hate writing match ups, incase you like doing that

Welcome to lucario Nessbounder

 

[Pentaoku]

Woops, I think you can't actually double team Toon Link's down air. I'm pretty sure he just bounces off you as you dissapear and you attack the ground while he's still in his down air animation floating above.

 

[Shake~]

The wind when Toon Link hits the ground with Dair will activate DT though, which you could use to your advantage.

 

[Milln]

I like this Shake~ guy. He should hang out with us Lucarios more often. UNLESS HE'S A SNEAKY SNEAKY SPY. Whether you get the wind or the sword, you still get your double team which = invincible movement. Consider the hit a bonus.

 

[Pentaoku]

I like this Shake~ guy. He should hang out with us Lucarios more often. UNLESS HE'S A SNEAKY SNEAKY SPY. Whether you get the wind or the sword, you still get your double team which = invincible movement. Consider the hit a bonus.

He's a friend of mine. I don't think he's a spy.

 

[Milln]

Unless you're his accomplice!

 

[phi1ny3]

do u think it is possible to hyphen tilt utilt? I've never thought of it, but would that be possible? If so, that would be awesome.

Edit: yes, I found that u can, I just never really used it, so nevermind.

 

[Coen]

Hmm, you list F-smash as a really lag, 3 star attack. It deserves more than that. It's range is so big that if you space it well, your opponent will not be able to punish you. You can easily punish ledge attacks etc with it. On top of that, it's a great move for KOing and generally putting pressure on the opponent. In fact, I think it's better than D-smash.

 

[Shake~]

I can't seem to punish forward smash with Wolf's forward smash shielded, and Lucario's forward smash has quite a lot of frames, I end up getting hit by it's end after my spot dodge ends. So it's a pretty safe smash in my opinion.

 

[phi1ny3]

Ya, I feel that Fsmash is actually pretty gewd, especially since it is hard to punish if done right. Azen is a good testament to this.