How to play against Olimar

[Triforce_Chauzu]

Hiya everybody! Just registered today, even though I've played Super Smash since the N64 days. Three (...yeah, 3) days ago I started to play as Zelda due to the fact that I always got beaten like hell with Ganondorf, and it's worked terrific. Against fellow Swedish online players I usually lost like 60-70% of my games against them with Ganondorf. But with Zelda, I now went onto the biggest winning streak thus far in my Super Smash life - like 10-15 won games in a row. But then, I faced an Olimar player. >.<

Like I feared, I got big problems against him. When I try to stay back and use Din's on him, he just evades it, continuing his approach against me. When he's close enough, he starts Pikmin-spamming me with his Forward B. Even though I understand that the logical reason is to use Nayru's, it's really hard to time it, and also Olimar can keep throwing Pikmin's even after Nayru's finished... And unless I stand, like, next to him, the Pikmin won't hit Olimar.

The only approach I've found to work is to jump right into his spamming (by air-dodging, then) and, after I land, do Nayru or Dsmash. I tend to spam this move though, so I start getting thrown by him, or smashed.

So I wonder if you guys have any ideas of how to approach a game vs. Olimar? Any strategies? Move preferences? Offensive/defensive play? Final Destionation/Battlefield - which is best to play at against him? I guess that I'd get better if I play more vs. good Olimar's, but I only know one who's uses him (and is good with him), and I can't play him so much.

btw, I love you Zelda posters here... All you've posted has been a big help for me. Without you, I'd probably be nothing with Zelda right now, simply spamming Din's all the time. I feel like I've reached another SSB level thanks to you. /end of Off-Topic

 

[S2]

First things first, if you're learning Zelda, this might of help. It's a Zelda guide that'll give you the basics for any matchup.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=158672

Second, here's some quick Olimar tips (since his character matchup isn't not covered in that thread... yet).

-Din's will outranges his projectiles, Olimar wants to space you so he can spam pikmin when your too fat to retaliate. Don't let him do that. You can camp him, so do so, but don't be predictable.
-Don't come down on him, his up-smash is godly. So is his up-air.
-He can be easily edgehogged
-Your attacks can hit his pikmin when they are either thrown or smash attacked at you. Keep that in mind.
-Watch out for his throw, its got excellent range and can be used against you if your playing defensive and shielding too predictably.
-He's got high priority in his air-attacks, but your up-smash and up-air will still outprioritize him.
-If he's tossing pikmin, certain smashes like the f-smash will protect you from from further pikmin (smashed or thrown) while knocking the ones on you off.
-D-smash and Nayru's are your friend if he gets too close.

These are just general things off the top of my head, keep in mind that Olimar is a spacing character who tends to camp. Abuse his weaknesses and look for opportunities while protecting yourself from his main attacks (his smashes and his throw, but be aware of his air priority).

 

[Triforce_Chauzu]

Yeah, I've read that guide. It was awesome, my gameplay is probably based on what I read there. Thanks for that one! But I asked about Olimar specifically since I see him as a really unique and weird character that's special to deal with compared to other characters in the game.

I will keep in mind about what you pointed out there too, sounds like the basic things to do. Trying the fsmash against his Pikmin's didn't cross my mind, will try that.

Also, the Pikmin player I play is fairly agressive, and the only space to attack that I find is right above him which is like the worst possible place for a Zelda player to attack. What should I generally do to solve this? I guess Nayru's is the logical answer, but I rarely get that close to him, as he too spaces himself quite good.

But, to summarize, general thoughts on what you should specifically do against aggressive Olimar's?

 

[FirebyrdXX]

Remember you can short hop forward while you Nayryu and reflect those buggers into him. Afterwards you should probably roll back, down tilt or down smash to get away from him. Try to get him above you for fairs and uairs.

 

[Lingy]

The main points to keep in mind are to...
- Avoid being above him
- His pikmin ARE reflectable (it's hard to get them to attack him though, you have to be close. Just keep practicing)
- If he can't return to the stage without having to use his Up+B, consider him dead.

Last point is crucial. Edgeguard at all times

 

[Triforce_Chauzu]

- If he can't return to the stage without having to use his Up+B, consider him dead.

Last point is crucial. Edgeguard at all times

Hmm... Guess I have to. Usually I don't do edgeguarding (since I almost only play for fun) but I guess that it's essential against Olimar.

Short-hopping Nayru's something I've tried before, will try it again I guess.

 

[Nyagamun]

I've been having horrible troubles with this match-up too. NL just gets me thrown. If my friend see's NL while he's throwing pikmin (which he only spams infrequently), he stops throwing and runs in for the grab. Otherwise his fsmash both outranges you and seems to be completely incapable of being punished. He's small so he can't be kicked easily, can approach you with shield dashing and getting into his sweet spot outside of fsmash range, which anything you do at that distance means a free fsmash or throw for him. pretty much anything that puts you close to him can be shielded into dsmash too


god **** I hate olimar

 

[Kricu]

It's been said but of course Nayru's love is great and it does make his pikmin attack himself. I always found that funny.

 

[popsofctown]

I just recently played a series of matches against my friend. He has been playing Olimar a whole lot. I did slightly better with Sheik, but i played with Zelda more than Sheik for practice (I lost 4 out of 5 matches, at least)
Things that i figured out...
Yellows are immune to upsmash, but not fsmash. Clean off yellows with Fsmash or maybe Nayru's.
In my opinion, you should give up on trying to camp Olimar.
Nayru's love can reflect pikmin back onto Olimar, but it's not worth trying. Once your opponent learns that his near-instant Whistle calls pikmin off himself, you'll do 1% damage every time you pull this off. conclusion: use other dodges against pikmin.
Often times the best move to clean yourself of pikmin is Faore's Wind. If you can Faore's Wind to a safe place (not an aggro place. A safe one) do so.
Unlike a few characters, Olimar can punish SH Fairs if he sheilds them (he doesn't need to pull off a perfect shield). I've experimented a tad with SH Nairs in which you land on the opposite side of Olimar, I'm not sure if that's punishable. Of course, SH Nairs do about 2% damage against *******.
****Spot dodge is so much better than shielding against Olimar, in many many cases.
****Ftilt is a much more significant move than it is against most characters. Use it.
The only Fairs i usually scored were Fairs or Bairs from when we both jumped of the ground at similar times.
Use L-dodge to grab, one of your better approaches against Olimar.
I discovered that you can sweet spot Dair onto Olimar's Usmash pikmin... dangerous, but maybe worth perfecting.
Ledgewarping into a second jump turned out to be a really good approach to me (not sure. Either confused him, or messed up his spacing). I'm referring to the AT credited to Luthien, read her FW guide if you want to know what it is.
****Never use Palm. (neutral A). It just never works against Olimar.
DTilt is still a great way to rack against Olimar.

I think that should be helpful. If you find something that can help me, let me know. PM or thread.

 

[PK-ow!]

Why would you SH Nayru's Love rather than SH Nair?

Have I been hallucinating? Because I could swear Nair does more damage and has more disruptive knockback than Nayru's Love. It does its thing faster, and allows you to flow (doesn't cancel your momentum).

Also, could you not use her neutral A to hit pikmin which are thrown at you?

Overall, it seems to me, if the grab owns your ground game, and Din's Fire is gimped by Olimar's aerial mobility and size, and your laggy attacks can be punished, and you can be beaten in the air, then you have no game against Olimar.
However, maybe you can fight the pikmin. It seems the only solution. See your objective as hurting the pikmin that are thrown at you.

I have a hard time believing Olimar is just a perfect counterpick. Some matchups just need one character to go completely outside of their normal technique; maybe Zelda can aggro this matchup? o.0

 

[popsofctown]

you can't fight the pikmin. He can get more in less time than din's fire takes to kill them. And they aren't always vulnerable anyhow.
Neutral A doesn't kill pikmin. It just doesn't work well as a block.

 

[Nyagamun]

this really seems like zelda's worst match-up in my opinion. Almost anything you do net's him a throw or smash. I really just need to play my friend more often

 

[GuiltyPleasure]

If your off stage and he's either picking or running with his pikmen, attempt to kill some of them with dins, edgeguarding has already be covered, as well as the reflecting pikmen, Personally I prefer to do lots of spot dodging, such as running in, slideing while side dodging then punishing the lag on his pikmen throw, though I recently ran into a good ollimar player who showed me the lethal quickness of his A attack, try to make him dodge around your dins fire when you have him off the edge then use mindgames to keep him far out, that way you force him to use his up + B for recovery and edge guard him

Most importantly " F up his recovery as its his biggest weakness once he's to far out

 

[ulzimate]

I had the same problem as you, as my friend is killer with Olimar. All you need to do is kill off all his Pikmin, and start chasing him when he tries to get away to get more. Also, you should be abusing your throw, and edge hog as much as possible. Lastly, Up-B is a good way to get next to him on Final D, especially if you can space it so you end up right behind him and can grab him.

 

[Kayzee]

If Olimar is spamming his forward B, rush him. Unless he has purple pikmin out, the pikmin aren't going to stop you from running toward him. At that point, you can dash attack, dash grab, or do a running Usmash. Also, you could dash attack repeatedly if he starts to Fsmash his pikmin. It'll help you advance toward him, and help keep pikmin at bay. If he ever spams to the point where he runs out of pikmin to spam, severely punish him for it in the small window of opportunity you have.

 

[Mushdibob]

Din's fire has a HUGE range and if you are good at timing it, its hard to avoid. Even if He dodges it, the point is to set you up for more attacks, Against picman its very easy to edgegaurd with dins fire. As long as you are patient and dodge into him, wait for a good opening and take shots when they open up to youll be able to own him! GL

 

[popsofctown]

I had the same problem as you, as my friend is killer with Olimar. All Lastly, Up-B is a good way to get next to him on Final D, especially if you can space it so you end up right behind him and can grab him.

??? Don't think so. The up B that teleports you and has several frames of after-lag? This strategy doesn't make any sense. His downsmash is fast, so it doesn't matter if he is facing you in this situation. And to grab you would have to teleport into range of that fast, powerful downsmash.

In your defense/if this is what you meant, Faore's wind CAN confuse players pretty effectively a lot of the time, and that can give you an advantage. Just don't believe that upB->grab is a good, solid approach without tricking.

-----------------------------
Separate line of thought:

I played many many more vs. olimar games. I tested out to make sure of something i suspected: attacks performed on pikmin do weaken, and do regen your other moves. so, if you've used any kill moves recently, you can regen them by using palm on thrown pikmin. You can also use Dtilt repeatedly on purples, that's a real good one. (It's a shame to lose Dtilt damage, but i can't think of many other useless moves against Olimar.)

 

[RedMage8BT]

Nayru's Love, Din's Fire, and Down Smash work wonders on Olimar.

 

[Triforce_Chauzu]

Separate line of thought:

I played many many more vs. olimar games. I tested out to make sure of something i suspected: attacks performed on pikmin do weaken, and do regen your other moves. so, if you've used any kill moves recently, you can regen them by using palm on thrown pikmin. You can also use Dtilt repeatedly on purples, that's a real good one. (It's a shame to lose Dtilt damage, but i can't think of many other useless moves against Olimar.)

Very good tip... Never thought about that, actually. o.o

Just the other day, I realized that you can kill the Pikmin that's thrown at you... That's my fault for not reading the Olimar forum good enough. Well, since then I've had less and less problems vs. my Olimar player and now we win like 50/50. The winner's usually decided by the one who first SD's in some way. ^^

 

[Aeyr]

My friend mains Olimar and I used to have trouble with him but now it seems we've become near 50/50.

I've noticed that F-Smash makes a decent "wall" that will kill many pikmin if he is spamming them. Though your going to get them on you sometimes I've found using N-air gets them off pretty easily (to the point it's habit for me to n-air quite often now o.O). Pretty much I've gotten used to knocking him off the edge then edge hogging but when he's in the air he tends to use that whistle of his that nullifies any knock back Dins or even sweet spotted f-air/b-airs do >_>.

 

[Dr. Hyde]

My friend mains Olimar and I used to have trouble with him but now it seems we've become near 50/50.

I've noticed that F-Smash makes a decent "wall" that will kill many pikmin if he is spamming them. Though your going to get them on you sometimes I've found using N-air gets them off pretty easily (to the point it's habit for me to n-air quite often now o.O). Pretty much I've gotten used to knocking him off the edge then edge hogging but when he's in the air he tends to use that whistle of his that nullifies any knock back Dins or even sweet spotted f-air/b-airs do >_>.

Ahahaha enjoy the whistle. No definitely listen to this guy ^^^

We go at it regularly, we are pretty even I believe and he has a great Zelda.
Dodging in the air after getting grabbed is a huge part of your game, Aeyr, it definitely saves you from the Uairs that would follow and causes me problems since you usually get to strike back after the dodged attack.

But yeah I think that Aeyr and myself could write the entire Zelda vs. Olimar match-up/guide since thats a bulk of what we play.

 

[Triforce_Chauzu]

But yeah I think that Aeyr and myself could write the entire Zelda vs. Olimar match-up/guide since thats a bulk of what we play.

That sounds nice.

 

[popsofctown]

It's been more weeks of me playing against olimar..... this match up is HARD.
Does anyone know of any approaches for him? Because he has an overall advantage in range, so you must approach.

Nayru's love is good against bad Olimars, but it's also a great way to get grabbed against someone who knows what they are doing.

I switched to Meta Knight a few times. I came up to about an 80% win rate in a matter of minutes. But i want to beat him with my main.

Sheik still seems the better choice to me. she has ranged advantage. It's hard to kill as her though.. I switch to Zelda for the kill sometimes, only to discover that i can't kill him without approaching, and i have no approaches.

Edgeguarding is really important.

I'd like to share a phenomenon i've gotten with my rival Olimar, i don't know if other people will behave similarly:
Whenever i knock Olimar all the way off the stage, so far that he can't get back without pikmin, i hog the edge.
Whenever i knock Olimar all the way off the stage, but not so far that he can get back without even using the edge, i don't hog it, i proceed to magically control fireballs instead.
WHAT i've noticed is, sometimes i knock Olimar off the edge, not so far that he needs the edge. But, since i'm an expert in FW distances, and not his recovery, i falsely think he will need the pikmin, and run to go get on the ledge.

About half of the times i do this, Olimar loses a stock.

Immediately afterward, my delightfully transparent opponent says "why did you take the edge for?" as if edgehogging was a new tactic. It makes him very mad.

So ALWAYS edgehog, even if the olimar DOESN'T need his pikmin. (well actually, maybe not always, then there's no surprise)

Oh, i forgot to explain why this tactic strangely works.

The Olimar sees how far the edge is, and then says to himself "i don't need the edge. Therefore, my opponent is not going to edgehog, since that would waste their projectile spamming time."
So then he decides he can throw some pikmin at you instead. Depending on where he is and wear you are, this sometimes requires him to drift backwards to make his shots land. Since he drifts backward, he leaves two or three pikmin for him to recover with, since he's going to need the ledge now. But the ledge is now taken, because his assumption was wrong.

 

[Aeyr]

Yeah, I agree. Pretty much the game becomes, kick him off, grab the edge. I usually end up using d-smash to knock him a decent bit away and then wait for him to think it's safe to use his recovery then grab the edge.

 

[TWK?]

Well, since my two mains are Zelda and Olimar, I feel I can offer a few good tips on this match-up. All of this is of course dependent upon the Olimar's playstyle, as it can vary drastically.

General tips vs. Olimar:
-ALWAYS give yourself more space than you think. If you second guess your spacing, give yourself more room. Olimar has absurd range for his size, espcially his grab range.

-If he spams Pikmin Latch (the toss) I find that jabs or Nairs work well for me, they give protection, come out quick, and are multi-hits. Yellows are immune to electricity though so use moves accordingly.

-Try to outrange him if you get the chance, or detonate Din's mid-launch to kill his Pikmin midflight. He needs to re-pluck his projectiles, you don't. Also, if you hit him hard enough the Pikmin seperate enough for you to kill most, if not all, of them with a single Din's (had it happen, it hurts >.<) Generally this is a rare occurrence because most Olimar's will keep the whistle handy.

-Multi-hits abuse spot-dodging and whistle armor. If you must approach I find it useful to launch a standing Din's, and while he blocks or dodges it, immediately come in with a short-hopped Nair(Fairs and Bairs are waaay too laggy on landing) followed by another quick multi-hit if they like to dodge or throw. If they are more defensive you might be able to get off a grab, or even fake the Nair and just land and grab.

-Do not expect Nayru's to latch his Pikmin to him, they rarely fly far enough, instead it makes a nice cleaner, if you have the time as it has a ton of ending lag.

-Edgehog, edgehog, edgehog.

This post has gotten much lengthier than I intended, but I hope this is of some help. Of course the best advice is to watch the Olimar's playstyle during the first stock and react accordingly. Does he camp with range or is he a close-range fighter? Just play smart (Dtilt is always pretty fast and can make 'em trip, just one of my fav moves ok I'm done, I swear!) as this is a difficult match for most characters because Olimar is a beast, lol. Good luck to you!

 

[sFoster]

TWK - I haven't played many olimars, so to me that was interesting.

Thanks

 

[Darkmusician]

Olimar isn't so scary once you get used to him.

 

[DanGR]

If you must approach I find it useful to launch a standing Din's, and while he blocks or dodges it, immediately come in with a short-hopped Nair(Fairs and Bairs are waaay too laggy on landing) followed by another quick multi-hit if they like to dodge or throw.

mm,mm,mm. I'm ashamed of you. Giving bad advice purposely for your advantage.(jk, but i do disagree) Smart olimar players, at least, will SH dodge towards Zelda and either grab with his insane grabbage or throw more pikmen. He'll space himself appropriately so the lag of din's plus any aerial won't reach olimar. Pikmen throw is much faster than din's and can easily punish it.

I'd like to share a phenomenon i've gotten with my rival Olimar, i don't know if other people will behave similarly:
Whenever i knock Olimar all the way off the stage, so far that he can't get back without pikmin, i hog the edge.
Whenever i knock Olimar all the way off the stage, but not so far that he can get back without even using the edge, i don't hog it, i proceed to magically control fireballs instead.
WHAT i've noticed is, sometimes i knock Olimar off the edge, not so far that he needs the edge. But, since i'm an expert in FW distances, and not his recovery, i falsely think he will need the pikmin, and run to go get on the ledge.

About half of the times i do this, Olimar loses a stock.

Immediately afterward, my delightfully transparent opponent says "why did you take the edge for?" as if edgehogging was a new tactic. It makes him very mad.

So ALWAYS edgehog, even if the olimar DOESN'T need his pikmin. (well actually, maybe not always, then there's no surprise)

Oh, i forgot to explain why this tactic strangely works.

The Olimar sees how far the edge is, and then says to himself "i don't need the edge. Therefore, my opponent is not going to edgehog, since that would waste their projectile spamming time."
So then he decides he can throw some pikmin at you instead. Depending on where he is and wear you are, this sometimes requires him to drift backwards to make his shots land. Since he drifts backward, he leaves two or three pikmin for him to recover with, since he's going to need the ledge now. But the ledge is now taken, because his assumption was wrong.

wow. thanks man. you never really told me a detailed reason behind why you do it. I'll be sure to pay more attention! But really folks. This is amazing! It totally confuses me like every time. It's more than just edgehogging though. It's a whole new mind game to play.(and i do tend to get mad :/)

 

[TWK?]

lol DanGR, the point of it is that Pikmin Latch doesn't cause any knockback (unless with a purple) and will not stop your approach, so it isn't really a punish as far as location advantage goes, and location takes priority over a latched pikmin any day. Olimar's grab is quick and has great range but the fact that you jumped for your aerial (yes you will get off the ground before they can grab if you space yourself any way but wrong) will keep you from being grabbed. I said IF you MUST approach, meaning all your previous outranging Din's games have failed. And they key is that it is an approach, the Din's is not supposed to hit, it is merely smoke and mirrors to apply some pressure for a safer move. Never forget that you can always use your second jump if you haven't reached far enough with your aerial. The idea is not to hit Olimar with any of these attacks, but rather to get inside his range where your quick multi-hits or tilts can really shine.

 

[popsofctown]

lol DanGR, the point of it is that Pikmin Latch doesn't cause any knockback (unless with a purple) and will not stop your approach, so it isn't really a punish as far as location advantage goes, and location takes priority over a latched pikmin any day. Olimar's grab is quick and has great range but the fact that you jumped for your aerial (yes you will get off the ground before they can grab if you space yourself any way but wrong) will keep you from being grabbed. I said IF you MUST approach, meaning all your previous outranging Din's games have failed. And they key is that it is an approach, the Din's is not supposed to hit, it is merely smoke and mirrors to apply some pressure for a safer move. Never forget that you can always use your second jump if you haven't reached far enough with your aerial. The idea is not to hit Olimar with any of these attacks, but rather to get inside his range where your quick multi-hits or tilts can really shine.

Don't get into to heated an argument... I think you two are talking past eachother. I don't think you two are talking about the same situation, it's hard to with something like this. Maybe both of you are right and both of you are imagining different spacing.

 

[TWK?]

Oh, sorry if it seemed that way, only the first line was in reference to DanGR. He's one of my fav posters around here though . I really do love Olimar, even though I prefer Zelda wholeheartedly, so for that reason I can go on and on about Olimar pros and cons, lol. The problem most people have is learning to see his attacks with all those pikmin following him. Even if you play with him for ten minutes you can get a feel for what each attack looks like, which is the best way to start fighting him, but I'm sure you've done that already. If not, go nuts!

 

[Kaffei]

Don't always spam Din's, you may become too predictable.

Olimar is about spacing, so play tricks. :D

 

[DanGR]

Oh, sorry if it seemed that way, only the first line was in reference to DanGR. He's one of my fav posters around here though . I really do love Olimar, even though I prefer Zelda wholeheartedly, so for that reason I can go on and on about Olimar pros and cons, lol. The problem most people have is learning to see his attacks with all those pikmin following him. Even if you play with him for ten minutes you can get a feel for what each attack looks like, which is the best way to start fighting him, but I'm sure you've done that already. If not, go nuts!

thanks! you're right about the learning issue people have v olimar.