How to NOT suck with MK

[Brightside6382]

Alright guys I've been going through the MK forums and watching vids of others MK players and I have to say their is a wealth of mis-information floating around. Honestly not many MK's have any REAL clue about what they are doing and a lot of them have formed bad habits. I'm simply making this thread to point out some of the most consistent bad habits I see.

1) (Probably the most important) GRAB WITH MK. I thought this one would be fairly obvious but I guess it isn't. MK has one of the best grab games in brawl and yet I see so little people abuse it (in vids) or talk about it concerning character match-ups. He has great range with his dash grab and D-tilt -> Grab ***** all characters. I could go more indepth to the wonders of MK's grab game but I'd rather leave that for another time.

2) STOP SHUTTLE LOOPING. Holy god is this a big one. Seriously MK's meta-game does not revolve around his Up+B but why is it I see so many topics revolving only around this move? Even worse when I watch video's 1/2 the MK's I see just spam this move like its his only way to deal real damage. He has a lot of other effective tools to combo and gimp with so try to use those instead of staying predictable and spamming shuttle loops as much as possible.

3) D-SMASH IS MK's MOST RELIABLE KILL MOVE. Stop spamming it so much and start saving it up. MK's has so many other tools to deal damage effectively so using this move to try and rack up damage is pointless. I know im going to get a lot of "duurrr shuttle loops a lot better" no its not. Learn what reliable is then you will understand why D-smash is a more effective killing move.

Alright im done ranting. If you have any questions feel free to ask. If you are a noob and want to argue against me don't even bother.

 

[Quez256]

1) This is too true to overlook

2) Spamming it is bad, yes, but it still has a ton of value, and it works well with gimping, which is MK's strong suit.

3) Again, spamming it wastes it's viability as a killing move, but it has a good use regarding spacing, and any penalties for overusing it for that purpose can be eliminated by spamming, for example, a f-air WoP.

Good points overall, but you're blanketing a bit much when it comes to point #2 & #3.

 

[Infinitysmash]

Alright guys I've been going through the MK forums and watching vids of others MK players and I have to say their is a wealth of mis-information floating around. Honestly not many MK's have any REAL clue about what they are doing and a lot of them have formed bad habits. I'm simply making this thread to point out some of the most consistent bad habits I see.

1) (Probably the most important) GRAB WITH MK. I thought this one would be fairly obvious but I guess it isn't. MK has one of the best grab games in brawl and yet I see so little people abuse it (in vids) or talk about it concerning character match-ups. He has great range with his dash grab and D-tilt -> Grab ***** all characters. I could go more indepth to the wonders of MK's grab game but I'd rather leave that for another time.

2) STOP SHUTTLE LOOPING. Holy god is this a big one. Seriously MK's meta-game does not revolve around his Up+B but why is it I see so many topics revolving only around this move? Even worse when I watch video's 1/2 the MK's I see just spam this move like its his only way to deal real damage. He has a lot of other effective tools to combo and gimp with so try to use those instead of staying predictable and spamming shuttle loops as much as possible.

3) D-SMASH IS MK's MOST RELIABLE KILL MOVE. Stop spamming it so much and start saving it up. MK's has so many other tools to deal damage effectively so using this move to try and rack up damage is pointless. I know im going to get a lot of "duurrr shuttle loops a lot better" no its not. Learn what reliable is then you will understand why D-smash is a more effective killing move.

Alright im done ranting. If you have any questions feel free to ask. If you are a noob and want to argue against me don't even bother.

1) Agreed.

2) This is true, but I have to disagree. The move is extremely versatile and I have to disagree with saying to use it less. Instead, why don't we agree use it in more appropriate situations instead of just throwing it in wherever it looks like it will fit? (Quick aside: this is the problem with moves as versatile as this one. People naturally just plug it in wherever they want to by reflex and as a result the move loses a lot of value due to overuse and predictability. Try mixing things up a bit to keep your opponent on their toes and your moves fresh.)

3) Agreed, but this problem can be resolved by applying your first suggestion. Just grab them and use your grab attack a few times (the number to fully reset decay on every move is 10, remember this (technically 9 but I'm not going into that)) then plug in a down smash and they should die a very large portion of the time. I also agree that this move is a more reliable kill move than Shuttle Loop and that you should use other moves to rack up damage such as the forward tilt combo, throws and grab attacks, aerial attacks and tornadoes.

Last but not least: arguing does not automatically make someone a noob.

 

[ckm]

i was going to argue, but then I realized I am a noob. never mind.

 

[giuocob]

Oh God, not another elitist smasher coming here to screw up the forums? Where are they coming from?

1. Agreed, of course.

2. Shuttle loop is a very useful tool for gimping people off the stage. I have knocked people off with a Dsmash and killed them with a reverse SL as low as 40%. Spamming it is bad, just as with every other move, but it definitely has its uses.

3. Agreed. In these situations, Dtilt -> Dthrow -> Tornado/Drill Rush/Air combo **** is just as good and desn't waste a kill move.

 

[meleemaster500]

1. I sometimes always manage to screw up my timing when grabbing somehow, my friend does it allot better than me

2. Spamming the shuttle loop is bad, but it is a very effective killing move all the same even more on platformed stages

3. dsmash is a powerful killing move, but it's range is limited to the ground, also the shuttle loop kill anyone under a ledge, or grabbing a ledge, and hits them against the side of the stage to score some easy KOs

 

[Brightside6382]

1. I sometimes always manage to screw up my timing when grabbing somehow, my friend does it allot better than me

2. Spamming the shuttle loop is bad, but it is a very effective killing move all the same even more on platformed stages

3. dsmash is a powerful killing move, but it's range is limited to the ground, also the shuttle loop kill anyone under a ledge, or grabbing a ledge, and hits them against the side of the stage to score some easy KOs

1) I dont care

2) i never said the shuttle loop was bad. It's just bad MK players spam the crap out of it and use it ineffectively

3) If you consistently kill players with the shuttle loops by hitting them below the stage you are playing crappy players.

 

[Locuan]

As you said MK's grabs are awesome. I usually grab people after they have done an attack with a lot of lag or coming out of a shield. An awesome kill move at 40-50% is forward grab> short hop> shuttle loop ( I call it the OMFG launcher ). Also, you could down grab> Fair> Fair, etc.

Regarding Shuttle Looping, same as with the explanation I put of Dsmash, use it when you have the chance and when you know its gonna hit, as with the above combo I explained it could get you an easy kill at low %'s.

Dsmash is used situationally every time that I find that I can hit my opponent with a dsmash I use it you just need to know when you are going to hit your opponent and that shouldn't be hard.

 

[Brightside6382]

As you said MK's grabs are awesome. I usually grab people after they have done an attack with a lot of lag or coming out of a shield. An awesome kill move at 40-50% is forward grab> short hop> shuttle loop ( I call it the OMFG launcher ). Also, you could down grab> Fair> Fair, etc.

Regarding Shuttle Looping, same as with the explanation I put of Dsmash, use it when you have the chance and when you know its gonna hit, as with the above combo I explained it could get you an easy kill at low %'s.

Dsmash is used situationally every time that I find that I can hit my opponent with a dsmash I use it you just need to know when you are going to hit your opponent and that shouldn't be hard.

First and foremost D-throw -> Fair will almost never work on players who know how to DI/air dodge. Following that up with another Fair is just ridiculous.

You should not use the D-smash when ever you think you can connect with it. This game has something called diminishing returns and by doing this you are only digging yourself into a hole at higher %'s. (same applies to shuttle loop)

 

[R1ngo]

Cute rant, thanks for telling us what we already know

 

[Quez256]

Cute rant, thanks for telling us what we already know

/end thread

 

[Ice9]

Cute rant, thanks for telling us what we already know

Well put. Thanks for posting a d!ck thread with only one legit point. Thanks and Have a nice day.

 

[ckm]

What is with ppl needing to tell everyone on the boards that we are scrubs/noobs/idiots like they are smash gods or something? First of all, the game hasnt been out long enough for ANYONE to be considered godly, IMO. If you are so amazing, why dont you post some videos of your godly skills and show us how it should be done. If you prove yourself to be such a great MK player, I would seriously listen to your recommendations (although I would hope for some more original ones... I already knew my grab game needed improvement, and telling ppl not to spam moves was totally unneccessary), and would gladly apologize for questioning you. Until then, you could be a little more respectful.

 

[Zakosai]

You bring up a good point with spamming shuttle loop because it makes you very predictable if that's all you do to KO off the edge. Sometimes it's better to anticipate their dodge and keep them in the air with N-air. The only char you should consistently Up-B is Snakes recovery.

And yes, spamming D-smash is a very bad habit. Try F-tilt/D-tilt instead. I've often found that despite how ridiculously fast D-smash is, once your opponent catches on to your spam tactics they will punish you for it.

 

[Brightside6382]

Cute rant, thanks for telling us what we already know

Its actually very ironic. But after watching your new video's you were pretty much the last straw that broke the camels back and encouraged me to actually make this thread.

1) You don't grab

2) You spam shuttle loop

3) You spam D-smash at low percents and had trouble killing at higher

 

[R1ngo]

Thanks for posting vids and teaching us how to do it better, i've never claimed to be great, the only reason i post vids is so ppl will comment and i can get better.

 

[Quez256]

Its actually very ironic. But after watching your new video's you were pretty much the last straw that broke the camels back and encouraged me to actually make this thread.

1) You don't grab

2) You spam shuttle loop

3) You spam D-smash at low percents and had trouble killing at higher

Um, you forgot this.

4) He's usually winning nonetheless

Everyone can improve, but there's no one uniformed way to use MK successfully.

 

[R1ngo]

Don't hate on me b/c i don't play the same way you do and you don't like it

 

[boom-man97]

1) defiantly, meta's speed also well compliments his grab range.
2) i usually forget to do shuttle loop altogether @_@
3) im guilty of this but Dsmash is sooooooo easy to abuse!

 

[Olimarman]

Though I agree with many of your arguments, you do what you can to win the game. Some people use d-smash as a spacer and still have no problem killing at high precents. Just because we do or don't do everything you mentioned doesn't mean were terrible players who should not sleep until we can play exactly like you.

 

[Chaco]

I agree with you like 100% Brightside, all I see is shuttle loop after shuttle loop. I only use it when, and only, after I have got them above 80%...for KOing purposes atleast. Grabbing is what makes MK, his grabs IMO are some of the best in the game. And using dSmash before necessary only shows them that you are going to use it when the time comes, if that does happen by all the other crap thats going on with every SD. Due to the OU Shuttle Loop.

EDIT: Not pointing out anyone here, well I think...

 

[Quez256]

Don't hate on me b/c i don't play the same way you do and you don't like it

That was intended as a complement -.-

 

[Brightside6382]

Don't hate on me b/c i don't play the same way you do and you don't like it

Its funny because you first said "thanks for telling us what we already know" but when I call you out you suddenly get defensive saying you don't have to do "what you already know" I guess.

 

[Dojo]

Good points. Not like anybody's honestly gonna listen. :\

 

[R1ngo]

ok, brightside... you making the comment about my vids being the final straw, spurred the comment don't hate me b/c you do'nt like how i play,
Quez, thanks wasn't trying to reply at u, i know it was a compliment and i appreciate it
@ brightside, post vids or quit complaining, i'd love to know how to play MK better

 

[Chaco]

Bright, really, everyone plays differently. Don't go on a MK holocaust. Love thy fellow MK..ers

 

[Brightside6382]

ok, brightside... you making the comment about my vids being the final straw, spurred the comment don't hate me b/c you do'nt like how i play,
Quez, thanks wasn't trying to reply at u, i know it was a compliment and i appreciate it
@ brightside, post vids or quit complaining, i'd love to know how to play MK better

If you want to learn how to play MK better read my first post and actually try to apply what I had to say.

 

[Wander]

1) Of course. There are a lot of people who could improve their game by grabbing at the right times, and not just with MK.

2) Yes, spamming it is bad. Spamming anything is bad. It has its place, but it's not his best attack by far.

3) Indeed. I find myself using the Dsmash a little too often, but there are some people who use it every other attack and some who never use it at all.

 

[Kayzee]

1. I agree, and I've been working on my grab game a lot in the past week. No one's answered my question about how to get grabs to go offstage though, and all my attempts have failed.

2. I also agree to this. I'm using Drill rush fairly often now and have cut down on shuttle looping. However, a shuttle looped stage spike never gets old.

3. I disagree to this. I dsmash after combos, and I do it so that I can get breathing room from my opponent while dealing fair damage in the process so that I can decide what to do next. I have no problems killing with it either, because I know how to replenish it.

 

[GreenMarth]

1) I dont care

2) i never said the shuttle loop was bad. It's just bad MK players spam the crap out of it and use it ineffectively

3) If you consistently kill players with the shuttle loops by hitting them below the stage you are playing crappy players.

gosh....thats not advice at all...try to be more helpful than trying to overshadow

(^this is advice =)^)

 

[Quez256]

ok, brightside... you making the comment about my vids being the final straw, spurred the comment don't hate me b/c you do'nt like how i play,
Quez, thanks wasn't trying to reply at u, i know it was a compliment and i appreciate it
@ brightside, post vids or quit complaining, i'd love to know how to play MK better

Ah, thanks for clearing that up then ^_^

 

[Quez256]

If you want to learn how to play MK better read my first post and actually try to apply what I had to say.

This is still a subjective point, regarding #2 & #3 anyway. Looking at moves like the D-smash and s-loop through "tunnel vision" is exactly why a lot of people "suck" with MK; finding new uses on a regular basis always keeps your opponents guessing at what to watch out for, which can constantly give you a bit of an edge. This might as well be a blanket statement for every character; as a simple breakdown, there's 2 main things to focus on;

1) Do what you can to predict what's coming at you, simply, don't get hit.

2) Do what you can to keep your opponent from having any idea what's coming at them.

Pigeonholing certain moves to single purposes won't make you better in the long run, it'll make you easier to predict, giving people time to sort out a foolproof way to blow you away.

/end rant

 

[SirKibble]

I have to agree with you, Brightside. MK has some sick grab/throw tactics, and those moves are definitely overspammed (as opposed to just plain spammed).

I'll be the first (or second, or whatever number we're up to by now) to admit I'm guilty of spamming the Down Smash, but I usually try to save the Shuttle Loop for once my opponents have higher damage. It's a fast move, and fatal, so as long as you're practiced with MK and can hit with it the first time, a lot of people won't even see it coming. Personally, I prefer a lot of high-damage, low-knockback moves until then. It makes people feel like you're not destroying them, while you really are. Mach Tornado FTW! Seriously, there's a move I don't see a lot of Meta Knight players using effectively. You can easily add 20-25% to your opponents damage with this move if used correctly. And yet its knockback is relatively low. That's my kind of move. Drill Rush I find best used to take out edgeguarders, rushing toward them and then into the ground, because ending it in the air leaves you WIDE open. And the Dimensional Cape... You just gotta throw that in once in awhile to mess your opponent up.

 

[Undrdog]

SirKibble, he doesn't read 08 posters according to his sig... lol

Anyway I saw this thread and wondered to myself, "Can you suck with Metaknight!?". Of course you can't! However you can play Metaknight and still suck at competitive Smash so here's the deal.

Listening to what people say on here to get better means you will never become any good at this game. Take Metaknight's moveset and experiment with it. Experiment until you are absolutely sick of this game. Take the time and look at each move with a child-like optimism and force yourself to find applications to each of his moves. Once you've studied each of his moves, develop your own playstyle that focuses around the mindgames you develop.

Metaknight is fast, powerful, and versatile. Develop mindgames around what you know about all of Metaknight's moves. Otherwise you'll always be a fighter with limited options and abilities.

 

[Heroes_Never_Die]

This thread makes me smile.

 

[SirKibble]

SirKibble, he doesn't read 08 posters according to his sig... lol

Oh, dang... Lol. Oh, well, it was fun anyway.

 

[KoalaBear]

who are you to tell us what makes our mk our mk... i bet most people here can beat you with mk so whats the deal? having a bad day?

 

[Undrdog]

I'm confused, I think you're referring to me. lol I was just saying develop your character to suit your mindgames. Not to suit when other people tell you. Discovering the character for yourself is the best way to fully understand the character's various styles. Not to mention the fact that there is still much to learn about this game. Studying could lead to greater discoveries.

 

[Heroes_Never_Die]

I agree with UndrDog, but I think researching via reading up and/or watching videos about your character(s) helps as well.

 

[Dojo]

It does help you pick up tidbits of new info here and there if you need it. UndrDog really hit the nail on the head though.

I found my style a little bit different then others I had seen on here. I had stayed away from these boards for about the first 2 months brawl had been out. Now very recently, I find myself creeping more into the same type of tactics I've been seeing on here. More Dsmash spamming. Not exactly a good thing. =\

I think I'm gonna stay away from this portion of the boards, stick to the regional zones, and develop my own style back. I'll feel better knowing my style of play wont be just another ordinary MK.