Pierce7d
Wise Hermit
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2006
- Messages
- 6,289
- 3DS FC
- 1993-9028-0439
Let's talk about edge-guarding since I see newer Marth Players do it wrong. Plus, some of you do it different than me.
First, on-stage edge-guarding: what to do if your opponent is hanging from the ledge.
What I like to do, is stand at about the range that your opponent will roll from the edge. Idealy, you want to stand just out of ledge attack range. It actually doesn't matter which way you face, though facing backwards may get a more aggressive approach against you.
If my opponent hangs too long, dtilt, then perhaps run off Fair, depending on the positioning and opponent character.
If they drop down and refresh, just wait. Don't get impatient, unless you're down and they're stalling. If this is the case, attempt a footstool. This should scare them out of the tactic, even if you miss.
If they ledgehop aerial, throw out Fsmash, ftilt, or dtilt, depending on who and what comes at you. You can also counter or shieldgrab, or Dolphin Slash out of shield or shield drop to Dancing Blade. You should have enough time to react based on your spacing.
If they ledgejump, jump and Fair to reset the situation. You can also Dair if you're godly and their jumps are not (not recommended). If you're facing backward, back air or nair actually have more knockback, but are slower. It's good for mixups (though I rarely do this, because I just thought of it, lol).
If they stand, fsmash. Even if they shield before you hit them, it'll push them back to the ledge and reset the situation. You can shield breaker to get fancy, but it's not recommended.
If they roll, upsmash, or SHFFNair You can do other things as well of course, these are just my favorite options. Reverse Dolphin Slash is good, as well as Dash away to pivot Dancing Blade.
If they ledge attack, counter, or shield and punish. Some characters don't actually have enough ledge attack range past 100% to hit you, so you can just use Fsmash vs them. Dolphin Slash may K.O. if fresh.
If they ledgehop airdodge, then wait it out, then punish. This requires paying attention. Usmash recommended.
If they ledgejump airdodge, or double jump (probably their best options, though unlikely for them to use it), then try to air out the airdodge, and reset the situation with a Fair, or set up a juggle trap.
Remember that against some characters, there are unique options (like Marth can rise and outspace your fsmash with SB or counter your attempt.) Make sure to take these into account and adjust accordingly. Against Marth, if I'm expecting a rising counter, I might charge the Fsmash, to change their unique rise into a penalty.
Dtilt is one of your best options if your opponent is below 100, and you're not quick enough to react. You can switch up the action after Dtilt very early, thanks to IASAF and it will hit them in a very favorable trajectory to follow up with a ledgehog/run off Fair. If they ledgehop or stand, they get hit. If they roll, Usmash, Dsmash, or Dancing Blade, and you might still hit. If they jump, shield, and react accordingly (IE: Shield drop Dancing Blade/ Dolphin Slash outta shield, Fair outta shield, etc).
Also, versus almost all forms of rising above 100%, double fairs will work. One should be approaching, and the other retreating back to the original position.
Off stage edgeguarding:
If your opponent is close and level, or slightly below, run off without jumping and fair. Then return to the stage.
If they are far, jump off and Fair. If you can, link fairs, and make the last Fair a Nair, since it will be fresher with farther knockback. If your opponent DIs properly, finish with Uair, unless their recovery is horrible. Even though Uair will help them recover, it will deal more damage, and it's likely that they will recover anyway.
If they are far, you can also RAR and Bair. Some opponent's will attempt to airdodge, but I find this to be fairly obvious to read. Simply wait for the airdodge, and then Bair. They are now lower, which is more favorable to you anyway. Remember to tipper, since tipper Bair is win off stage. Also, if your opponent airdodges your Bair, it's a free Uair or Fair. Space correctly. (This also applies to on stage juggling)
If your opponent is near the stage, but very low, drop and Dolphin Slash stage spike. If you're unsure of your aim, or your ability to reverse Dolphin Slash, I like to Dancing Blade Dolphin Slash. They can't airdodge, and chances are your opponent's UpB doesn't come out as quick as Marth's, so it's pretty much a combo. Plus, it looks mad cool.
Of course, if you're pro, use Dair appropriately. RAR Dairing is said to be more reliable and easier to tipper, although with practice, you'll master both ways of doing it.
And if you're really pro, tipper aerial uncharged shield breaker. It has really good knockback actually, and will probably kill if connected as an edgeguard (not recommended).
First, on-stage edge-guarding: what to do if your opponent is hanging from the ledge.
What I like to do, is stand at about the range that your opponent will roll from the edge. Idealy, you want to stand just out of ledge attack range. It actually doesn't matter which way you face, though facing backwards may get a more aggressive approach against you.
If my opponent hangs too long, dtilt, then perhaps run off Fair, depending on the positioning and opponent character.
If they drop down and refresh, just wait. Don't get impatient, unless you're down and they're stalling. If this is the case, attempt a footstool. This should scare them out of the tactic, even if you miss.
If they ledgehop aerial, throw out Fsmash, ftilt, or dtilt, depending on who and what comes at you. You can also counter or shieldgrab, or Dolphin Slash out of shield or shield drop to Dancing Blade. You should have enough time to react based on your spacing.
If they ledgejump, jump and Fair to reset the situation. You can also Dair if you're godly and their jumps are not (not recommended). If you're facing backward, back air or nair actually have more knockback, but are slower. It's good for mixups (though I rarely do this, because I just thought of it, lol).
If they stand, fsmash. Even if they shield before you hit them, it'll push them back to the ledge and reset the situation. You can shield breaker to get fancy, but it's not recommended.
If they roll, upsmash, or SHFFNair You can do other things as well of course, these are just my favorite options. Reverse Dolphin Slash is good, as well as Dash away to pivot Dancing Blade.
If they ledge attack, counter, or shield and punish. Some characters don't actually have enough ledge attack range past 100% to hit you, so you can just use Fsmash vs them. Dolphin Slash may K.O. if fresh.
If they ledgehop airdodge, then wait it out, then punish. This requires paying attention. Usmash recommended.
If they ledgejump airdodge, or double jump (probably their best options, though unlikely for them to use it), then try to air out the airdodge, and reset the situation with a Fair, or set up a juggle trap.
Remember that against some characters, there are unique options (like Marth can rise and outspace your fsmash with SB or counter your attempt.) Make sure to take these into account and adjust accordingly. Against Marth, if I'm expecting a rising counter, I might charge the Fsmash, to change their unique rise into a penalty.
Dtilt is one of your best options if your opponent is below 100, and you're not quick enough to react. You can switch up the action after Dtilt very early, thanks to IASAF and it will hit them in a very favorable trajectory to follow up with a ledgehog/run off Fair. If they ledgehop or stand, they get hit. If they roll, Usmash, Dsmash, or Dancing Blade, and you might still hit. If they jump, shield, and react accordingly (IE: Shield drop Dancing Blade/ Dolphin Slash outta shield, Fair outta shield, etc).
Also, versus almost all forms of rising above 100%, double fairs will work. One should be approaching, and the other retreating back to the original position.
Off stage edgeguarding:
If your opponent is close and level, or slightly below, run off without jumping and fair. Then return to the stage.
If they are far, jump off and Fair. If you can, link fairs, and make the last Fair a Nair, since it will be fresher with farther knockback. If your opponent DIs properly, finish with Uair, unless their recovery is horrible. Even though Uair will help them recover, it will deal more damage, and it's likely that they will recover anyway.
If they are far, you can also RAR and Bair. Some opponent's will attempt to airdodge, but I find this to be fairly obvious to read. Simply wait for the airdodge, and then Bair. They are now lower, which is more favorable to you anyway. Remember to tipper, since tipper Bair is win off stage. Also, if your opponent airdodges your Bair, it's a free Uair or Fair. Space correctly. (This also applies to on stage juggling)
If your opponent is near the stage, but very low, drop and Dolphin Slash stage spike. If you're unsure of your aim, or your ability to reverse Dolphin Slash, I like to Dancing Blade Dolphin Slash. They can't airdodge, and chances are your opponent's UpB doesn't come out as quick as Marth's, so it's pretty much a combo. Plus, it looks mad cool.
Of course, if you're pro, use Dair appropriately. RAR Dairing is said to be more reliable and easier to tipper, although with practice, you'll master both ways of doing it.
And if you're really pro, tipper aerial uncharged shield breaker. It has really good knockback actually, and will probably kill if connected as an edgeguard (not recommended).
