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How to do REAL training with 2 players

Zodiac

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Messages
3,557
When we usually mention training around here me mean "Go over to friends house and play smash for four hours and try to improve" But answer me this, is your friends better then you? worse? or the same level. If they are anything but better they wont be able to help you by just playing you the way a high level player could. But there is a solution. There are things you can practice with just two of you to improve your game, and you dont need to be a good player to help in these training exercises.

NOTE: These are just some things I've been thinking of, please post with any other exercises two player could do that would improve their game.


General Exercises

The super amazing amsah tech of doom
Want to learn how to do this? Not a problem, you can practice this with two players, neither of which have to be zhu or amsah. Set to infinite stock and infinite time and go to any stage, FD is probably the best for this one.

Shield pressure/Shield spacing
If you find yourself getting shield grabbed because your spacing is ever so slightly off then this one is for you. Your training partner holds their shield up while you practice your spacing against it, and your pressuring against it. you should be alternating between normal shield, light shield spacing, there are some move you can do against a light shield that you cant against a normal shield. Also practice against low shields for poking opportunities.

Ledge Teching
This one should be fairly self explanatory, you pick your two characters, have your training partner go to edge and do the appropriate attacks and you practice you teching against them. Also practice the follow ups for getting back on stage, another up b is often times predictable.

Combo di'ing
A computer di's the same way every time. So if you're having trouble keeping your combo's up when you fight people practice this one. Your training partner will get combo'd by you and try to di out. You read or react to their di and continue the combo and learn the different follow ups you could do.

Tech chase practice
This can actually be done to an extent on a cpu. But we'll start with human practice first. Your training partner puts you into a position to tech on the ground next to them. (I.E. Sheik/Falcon Dthrow) if they hit the ground and start rolling you practice your reaction time to that. but if they miss the tech you wait in front of them to make there move, they might just risk a get up attack, and get up attacks are slow, you should have plenty of time to put your shield up or jump over it for whatever follow up you have planned. The 1p way is limited. The cpu will sometimes do a get up attack right away but will always tech away from the direction your facing.

Light shield edgehog practice
This technique consist of rolling to absolute edge of the stage facing inward and then lightsheilding. When someone up b's you will fall off the stage and grab the ledge, your opponent fill not fall slow enough for your invincibility frames to were off and you will ledge hog them. This is difficult to practice with computers so you and your training partner take turns up-b'ing back onto the ledge and light shield ledge hogging.
 

Moooose

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 19, 2009
Messages
2,142
Location
Ann Arbor, MI
good list
i started doing some powershield training too
we both use falco and take turns shootin eachother and tryin to powershield
 

_wzrd

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 19, 2009
Messages
438
Location
Waikoloa, Hawaii
mm great list, I primarily only have one other person to play ATM so this is great...I already practice them on my own during matches except the 'tech of doom' BUT just practicing them during normal competitive gameplay can be difficult haha!

PS how DO you do that tech?
 

Zodiac

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Messages
3,557
mm great list, I primarily only have one other person to play ATM so this is great...I already practice them on my own during matches except the 'tech of doom' BUT just practicing them during normal competitive gameplay can be difficult haha!

PS how DO you do that tech?
You know...I dont exactly know, Double Di into the ground at an angle and tech I beleive. Someone gets magus in here.
 

Zodiac

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Messages
3,557
if they are worse you can still learn lots like powersherilding lasers, better approach vs sheik and etc.
thats the idea, most people only play with people who are as good as or worse than them, with these though Im hoping people can start getting better without have to play better people. The thing you cant exercise on someone your level though is mind games that will beat a better player.
 

INSANE CARZY GUY

Banned via Warnings
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
6,915
Location
Indianapolis
The thing you cant exercise on someone your level though is mind games that will beat a better player.
I live mindgames you can in fact get better by just talking to people and going to school I mess with everyone really bad and I understand mindgames very well. walk up smash head into wall take their soda and run mindblowing.
 

Zodiac

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Messages
3,557
I live mindgames you can in fact get better by just talking to people and going to school I mess with everyone really bad and I understand mindgames very well. walk up smash head into wall take their soda and run mindblowing.
Lol, I cant wait to play you at some big tourney, whens the next big tourney your going to? Im planning on going to cat 5
 

Grinin

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 24, 2008
Messages
220
Location
Houston, TX
Cool thread, especially seeing as all my friends are way worse than me, despite the fact that I suck nuts.
 

keeper

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 4, 2008
Messages
2,080
Location
Lake Oswego, OR
I find it better to just play people and focus on certain overall fundamentals. Sure, practicing stuff like this is nice, but you then have to incorporate it in context with the rest of the match.
 

_wzrd

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 19, 2009
Messages
438
Location
Waikoloa, Hawaii
I do that tech alot, i just hold both sticks down and tech.
ooh so you hold them down, like as your getting down smashed, then tech like immediately after?

or like nearer to the same time...etc

I don't have melee for a few more days so I can't test it yet :(

I find it better to just play people and focus on certain overall fundamentals. Sure, practicing stuff like this is nice, but you then have to incorporate it in context with the rest of the match.
Playing people with good fundamentals is absolutely integral though I've found I need moreee practice doing certain things like mixing up timings on shield pressure since you aren't just doing it constantly like shffling. L


I think you can practice tech chasing any time against any decent player (or someone who techs consistantly) by just doing it and learning how to cover all teching (in place, away from you, behind you, immediate missed tech, missed tech get up in place, roll left/right, get up attack)

My combo di is pretty weak...willlll practice.
 

ShadyMilkman

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 21, 2010
Messages
170
Location
Murfreesboro, TN
That tech actually isn't hard. Having the reflexes to react and do it as fast as Amsah does in that video, however, is a COMPLETELY different story. It doesn't matter when you start holding the sticks down. Just hit L or R as you're getting hit.

You can do it on diagonal-trajectory attacks, too. Hold the C-stick perpendicular to your expected flight path and the control stick down and tech. Magus has a really good video explanation of it on Youtube.
 

Zodiac

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Messages
3,557
I find it better to just play people and focus on certain overall fundamentals. Sure, practicing stuff like this is nice, but you then have to incorporate it in context with the rest of the match.
Its easier to say practice what moves can space on a shield for a little while and then put into practice. Its a lot a harder to just do it on the fly if your not familiar with the match up. The primary focus is on people who only go to tournaments every one or two months and otherwise don't play a lot of people.
 

INSANE CARZY GUY

Banned via Warnings
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May 14, 2008
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Indianapolis
just play like how I play I rarely play to winthat's like my 2nd goal Play to learn and sometimes I play not just fopr me to learn. but mostly for maybe self. I sit down and learn something in real time it helps you adapt also. I can now see when my brother is about to laser i've run straight up to him a number of times and powersheilded right in his face and got a grab while he was still in midair. Learning mad good reads on people is very important.

Really people need to learn it really isn't about winning you learn more if that's what you focus on. If I don't think i'll place high or something I won't play to win but to learn.
 

Puppet_Master

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 24, 2010
Messages
26
Location
Pittsburgh, PA
I think having a partner is essential even if their skill level is far below yours. Recently I spent hours working on shffl ing sheik's aerials by myself. When I tried to incorporate it in an actual match I found that hitting a shield completely threw off my timing and that my spacing was way off too. Having somebody to practice on really helps. The only hard part is resisting the urge to start womping on each other and lose sight of the technique you're working on =P
 

PB&J

Smash Hero
Joined
Apr 25, 2007
Messages
5,758
Location
lawrenceville, GA
me ,soft,and merck would practice anything that has to do with a shield..power shielding, up smash oos,shine oos,shine bair oos,wave shine oos,etc

i think the most recent thing we are working on is power shielding..since we all play falco we will put are each other in different situations on most stages and try to power shield lasers..wavedash to shield is a good starting key.


we are close on skill level but we each are weak at things where the other one has strength.

1st. Me-speed/pressure/combos are my strength's in that order but i lack patience/defense/edge guarding

and that is where soft comes in


2nd-Soft -strength's -edge guarding/defense/patience . weakness - pressure/aggressive/close combat

3rd -Merck-strength's- spacing/patient/close combat/..weakness- dont really know..i know he rolls alot sometimes but i honestly think hes the best out of the three so its hard to tell at the moment but i know his edge guarding is not ast good as Soft's

so we will help each other out in the areas where we are good at..for example

soft use to love that right side of the stage and just wait/bait people to him and gimp them the whole match friendly and tourny, but lately i told him to be more aggressive and he started to get much better

soft hates the way i edge guard so he has teaching me the forbidden jutsu that him and m2k know

merck needed to know small things like up smashing oos easier so me and soft have been teaching him that

plus merck shows me how to space better


there are other things like our di which merck is great in and recovery where soft is king and pressure where im good in that we trade our secrets all the time

playing with just 2 people is cool too, 3 is better and 4 is best,anything more than that gets confusing
 

Zodiac

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Messages
3,557
does anyone else have more ideas on what other training you can do?
 

Dark Sonic

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 10, 2006
Messages
6,021
Location
Orlando Florida
PS how DO you do that tech?
Double stick techs in a nutshell

Hold C-stick down. Use control stick to DI perpendicularly to the attack (using the opposite perpendicular that you would've used for survival DI).

Press L or R right before getting hit.

Hold the C-stick perpendicular to your expected flight path and the control stick down and tech. Magus has a really good video explanation of it on Youtube.
You got it backwards :p
 

choknater

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Dec 25, 2002
Messages
27,296
Location
Modesto, CA
NNID
choknater
my favorite training is 99 stock matches

if u have that kind of endurance and the adapting skills to actually change the pace of the match....... it *****.......
 
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