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How to beat sheik?..

Dr_hendrix

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 2, 2007
Messages
3
Location
Nvo.Laredo
Well im having some trouble when a fight agaist shiek.. my friend its a good player with her and my main problem is that he always made me a combo that i cant avoid leaving me with high percentage.. So maybe you can give me some tips againts shiek and how to beat her.. thanks.. I will appreciate your help.
 

iankobe

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 25, 2005
Messages
1,334
Location
Los Angeles, CA
I had problems against Shieks too, but you can still win.

My advice:
1)Pill spam, try not to get TOO close with shiek, especially when you get grabbed. Her combos can lead you to high percentage where you can just get killed with one of her SLAPs.
2)ChainGrab. If the Shiek's DI is not good enough, you can basically chaingrab her to death. You can either finish her off by Dthrow>Fsmash, or Dthrow>Doc punch. They always work for me.
3)Edgeguard. The reason why its extra harder for Doc to beat a Shiek is because she has a really good comeback move. But, if you can figure out what your oppoenet is trying to do, (vanish up to grab on ledge while you ledgehog, or vanish directly back to the stage)its not hard to finish her off when she comes back to stage.

Hope that helped.
 

St. Viers

Smash Champion
Joined
May 15, 2006
Messages
2,409
Location
Boston MA
I play a shiek about my level: here is some advice I can give:

1. use pills, but don't spam them. needles (and sheik in general) can just rip through them. Use them as mindgames and to appoach/retreat. DO NOT camp with them...Needles have a longer reach.

2. If your friend SHs, try to full jump over, and use n/b air. Shieks SH is kind of high still, so this puts you (well, me, but) in a position above her kick and at a range to avoid the claw. This doesn't always work, but don't let her get over YOU.

3.a As to when she is off the ledge and not directly below, bairing her once and grabbing the ledge works. This way she can only go so far onto the stage with her up-b, and the lag is enough to Ledge-hop another attack into her

3b. When she is directly below the ledge, I just wait for her to disappear, and then grab the ledge. This lets you avoid the possiblility of getting hit by the fire, and most likely she will be trying to go for the ledge. If not, she will be high enough over the ledge that you can agian just punish her when falling/landing lag

4. I like to just stay on the edge for awhile when knocked off. Either she tries to get you with her needles, to which you can just let go and grab agian, or she approaches you. If she uses the whip, then just punisher her for it...it isn't the best ledgeguard technique. Also, you can let go and up/use any aerial. The best thing is not to be predictable, just like with other opponents...

Hope this helps, but I don't play the best people (Though the shiek I'm talking about can beat someone who somewhat recently got 3rd in a local tournie, under koreandj and someone else)
 

SmashMac

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 24, 2005
Messages
1,388
Location
Naples, FL.
CG Sheik from (0 - 20) - 60%. 70% begin with full-jump rising uair to ff uair then uair shffl for the fair finish. When fighting characters with Doc. you have to be very careful. This is my way of looking at it:

Mindgames = Introduction, Technicality = Climax, Smarts = Finish

Basically, it takes the mindgames to get your combo starter in (In this case it's probably the CG until around 60ish), then it's technicality to combo her with uairs and then depending on the uprising situation you'll use your smarts to fit in the right killer move, hence, sending her out of the stage.

Also, don't spam fairs, spam nairs. Go through her with the nairs. Sheiks like to grab. Don't let them. Oh yea, if you're faired (slapped), hold upwards. Longer life span.

Oh yes, Pill approach and Pill spam. Pill approach with Decoy Vitamin to a well spaced out ftilt is a good way to get in but not too close. Ftilt is a very good move to use to space out your attack.

Sheik is a pretty good/hard fight for Doc., but if you know what you're doing, you'll do well.
 

Dr_hendrix

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 2, 2007
Messages
3
Location
Nvo.Laredo
Well thanks guys, i'll try to get in to practice all this tips..
One more thing, another problem that i got its the speed.. (sorry if my english sucks.. im form mexico..i'll try to express my ideas correctly..)
When i fight him i've won before.. And my fighting style with doc is very calm.. i dont move to much, i rather wait and play defensive, it has always worked for me, the dash is indispensable, i grab a lot too, but the cancelation with sheik is to fast and after he attacks me with some move like the slap or whatever form the air, i cant hit him or grab him unless he mistakes, and he uses alot the mind games too.. I'll soon try to leave the link from a fight with him, that way will be easier for you to help me..
Thanks a lot!!.
 

Stryk9

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 5, 2007
Messages
286
Location
Victoria, BC and Yukon
against shiek i try as much as possible to chain grab at low % and also chain uairs into a fair if possible, pill spam is goood too, though a good shiek can jsut need or tilt them away
 

Hoods

Smash Cadet
Joined
May 25, 2006
Messages
50
Since everyone has stated all other ideas I will give you one tip: Don't allow her to dictate your pace. If you try to play at sheik's pace you will most likely lose.
 

Kashakunaki

Smash Master
Joined
May 22, 2006
Messages
3,014
Location
Albuquerque, New Mexico
While we are on the topic, I had a question I've been wanting to ask. If Doc a good Shiek counter?

The three characters I use (I recently picked up CF and Shiek, but I'm still too much of a newbie with them) are Dr. Mario, Falco, and Mr. Game and Watch. Which out of those should I use against Shiek? Also... this is kind of misplaced in the Doc thread, but I have trouble against Marth with Falco who is supposed to be my Marth counter, should I use Doc instead or just work with my Falco?
 

Pima

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 10, 2006
Messages
221
Location
Mexico
Kasha, as little as I know about Falco I thought he gets horribly ***** my Marth? I could be wrong, but whatever. If you're good with those 3 characters I would suggest G&W because Doc gets easily out-ranged by Marth.... as far as G&W himself I really don't know =P, but you can always try
 

1980

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 29, 2006
Messages
409
Location
chicago, come get *****
the reason why most falcos lose to marth are because the generally all are too used to being aggressive. witch in marths case yuou have to play more of the pc way rather than the bs way.

remebering marth can almost 90% of the time counter one falco's moves and i've seen to many times where a falco fights amarth and rush in too wrecklessly and lose.
keep a offensive falco when fighting marth cuz thats his game while at the same time control to know when its safe to attack marth. the balls out strategy only works for
top falcos no offense to anyone.

also sorry for bring off topic but the generally gave you the right advice so go with it and you should be ok.
 

SPAWN

Smash Master
Joined
Oct 8, 2005
Messages
3,121
Location
CT
Slippi.gg
spaw#333
Kashakunaki: Against Sheik use Falco since you can pillar her for a long time. Most Sheiks don't know what to do vs falco since you have to use more of an aerial game... you need to know the matchup well (for Sheik). Against Marth, Doc vs him is even if you pill spam and make sure to dthrow and then either upsmash/uair/ do whatever... it's best. Falco would be best vs Marth since you can pillar him if he cannot di well... which is most people. BTW this is all coming from good Falcos (for the falco part) aka PC. The Doc stuff I'm saying as my own opinion.

Now, onto topic, yeah definitely do what Smashmac said (he worded it the best and made an amazing post). It's really hard to cg Sheik though... if they know how to di.

[20:38] The Cyphus: 'supposedly' its possible to keep sheik up to 55%ish
[20:38] The Cyphus: but thats if your grab timing is perfect

Everything that's need to be saying has been said. Pillspam, nair, grab.... hmmm. Oh, be tricky about your recovery. Because it's pretty easy for Sheik to edgeguard against Doc (I'm a Sheik player also). Well, sorry I'm not more of help.
 

Kashakunaki

Smash Master
Joined
May 22, 2006
Messages
3,014
Location
Albuquerque, New Mexico
That's because when Smashmac posts in a topic it is usually end of discussion. He covers all ends of the playing field perfectly.

Also, I think you are confusing the term pillaring with shine comboing. They are different. Also, if I'm not mistaken, anyone half knowledgable with Marth can break out of a shine combo at early percents. The best option is Dair > Shine > Up tilt, but that's about it as far as I know. Same with Shiek, she just doesn't fall quickly enough.
 

SPAWN

Smash Master
Joined
Oct 8, 2005
Messages
3,121
Location
CT
Slippi.gg
spaw#333
Ummm, no, I was talking about pillaring. And I was talking to PC, so if you're disagreeing with me, you're disagreeing with PC. :p
 

Kashakunaki

Smash Master
Joined
May 22, 2006
Messages
3,014
Location
Albuquerque, New Mexico
I'm sorry, I didn't know you weren't addressing me. After all, you put my name followed by a colon and then advice. In that case, who is PC? I don't see someone in here with a name with PC.

And besides, pillaring works against any character. It's a shield pressure technique. Last I checked, all characters have shields.
 

Kashakunaki

Smash Master
Joined
May 22, 2006
Messages
3,014
Location
Albuquerque, New Mexico
He said he was talking to him. Which makes no sense for 1. He's not even here for 2. He was giving me the advice.

Again, SPAWN. Pillaring isn't the same as shine comboing. It's a shield pressure technique.

And yes, I know who PC Chris is.
 

SPAWN

Smash Master
Joined
Oct 8, 2005
Messages
3,121
Location
CT
Slippi.gg
spaw#333
^^ Whatever, man. Lets just call it even because I don't feel like having some little gay arse fight on the boards. Okay. :)
 

SPAWN

Smash Master
Joined
Oct 8, 2005
Messages
3,121
Location
CT
Slippi.gg
spaw#333
Dude, I was just trying to get good advice for Falco... I have no idea on anything for Falco. In the future, I guess I just won't ask ridiculously good people for advice for other people.
 

Brookman

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 20, 2005
Messages
6,202
Location
pikachu
pill spam/ dash dance camp into a grab, chain grab to 50% (or is it lower?? or higher maybe?) forward smash, edge guard.
 

Kashakunaki

Smash Master
Joined
May 22, 2006
Messages
3,014
Location
Albuquerque, New Mexico
Aye. I agree. So, yeah, Shiek. Mmm, I wouldn't recommend caping her needles unless she is spamming them all to hell. Shiek is just too fast and could potentially punish you.

Down smashes are your friend. Also, seeings how her short hop is still pretty high, you could probably make good pre emptive stirkes against a lot of SHFFLs with an up tilt.
 

chlor0form

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 5, 2007
Messages
240
Location
on teh edge, throwin dem eggz~~
Mindgames. Pills are useful to confuse approaches and retreats. Also, if your opponent can't DI, try and use that to your advantage. Chaingrabs are really effective if you can pull them off. That and edgeguarding. GG
 

Snakebite

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 9, 2005
Messages
385
Location
Melbourne
Aye. I agree. So, yeah, Shiek. Mmm, I wouldn't recommend caping her needles unless she is spamming them all to hell. Shiek is just too fast and could potentially punish you.

Down smashes are your friend. Also, seeings how her short hop is still pretty high, you could probably make good pre emptive stirkes against a lot of SHFFLs with an up tilt.
I Like this advice, I remember the days when I did not use up tilt my doctor mario sucked because of it.
 
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