How someone could improve pichu

[Animedan]

Let's be honest, pichu is terrible. Not only a clone of pikachu but it hurts itself. So I was wondering, can pichu be improved? I'd like to hear everyone's opinion on this.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

I find it silly when people bring up the fact that Pichu hurts himself, as to the main reason to why he is terrible. It shouldn't be, if you're know what you're doing. His most used moves should be N-Air, U-Air and the tilts. The only times he should be hurting himself are when landing a kill with D-Air offstaga. And there's a tecnique that enables you to Down-B without hurting yourself.

A character is "improved" by playing by their strengths and getting by their weaknesses, in my opinion. I heard that Pichu has a decent edgeguarding/gimping and combo game. But he'll still suffer a ton against ICs & Sheik, who can 0-death him.


Someone more experienced correct me, if I'm wrong. Not entirely sure about the last parts, but I am sure that damage recoil isn't an actual factor as to why Pichu's terrible. I think it has to do more with being the lightest character in the game and having pretty bad range.

 

[Animedan]

I find it silly when people bring up the fact that Pichu hurts himself, as to the main reason to why he is terrible. It shouldn't be, if you're know what you're doing. His most used moves should be N-Air, U-Air and the tilts. The only times he should be hurting himself are when landing a kill with D-Air offstaga. And there's a tecnique that enables you to Down-B without hurting yourself.

A character is "improved" by playing by their strengths and getting by their weaknesses, in my opinion. I heard that Pichu has a decent edgeguarding/gimping and combo game. But he'll still suffer a ton against ICs & Sheik, who can 0-death him.


Someone more experienced correct me, if I'm wrong. Not entirely sure about the last parts, but I am sure that damage recoil isn't an actual factor as to why Pichu's terrible. I think it has to do more with being the lightest character in the game and having pretty bad range.

I honestly didn't mean that his recoil damage was the main issue, It's just a really stupid attachment to the already bad Pichu *Kind of like Pichus recoil is the icing on the cake of already bad flaws.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

Yeah, sorry. I forgot to clarify: It just reminded me of how others (not you) always pointed that out. Actually, that's pretty much everything they point out...

 

[DerfMidWest]

Can't do anything to fix him, you just need to learn to push his strengths and play around the weaknesses.
That requires a lot of technical consistency and knowledge of the character.

 

[Animedan]

Can't do anything to fix him, you just need to learn to push his strengths and play around the weaknesses.
That requires a lot of technical consistency and knowledge of the character.

Oh Woops, I forgot to add something to the thread. I meant to ask, if someone were able to create a new moveset for pichu/make upgrades for pichu what would you do to tweak his moveset. It's kinda like a Theoretical question. Hope I cleared this up, sorry for not specifying :/

 

[DerfMidWest]

Oh, increase movement speed of upB, increase hitstun on fair and dair, increase damage of uair to like 8%
make jolts autocancel on landing
increase grab range and shield size
increase fsmash and dtilt range
more shieldstun/hitstun on nair (increased frame advantage)
increase speed of utilt/usmash.

 

[Deleted member 189823]

Isn't his U-Tilt pretty quick, already?

 

[DerfMidWest]

yeah, but it's got holes. it actually takes a little longer than you'd think to end.

 

[Comet7]

I know this is a brawl thing, but dacus would be cool.

 

[Oatmeal.]

Believe in Pichu and don't just dismiss him as a terrible character and a waste of a slot.

That's one way to rapidly become better as Pichu.

 

[DerfMidWest]

The way to be good with pichu is to know your weaknesses, of which you have a LOT, and learn to push your strengths and play around those weaknesses as best you can. Don't blindly play with over-confidence, because then your weaknesses will get pushed.

 

[Canuckduck]

- Increase power

- Increase running speed

- Increase attack speed

- No longer takes damage from its own (electric) attacks


If the devs would've done that, perhaps I'd play Pichu a bit more. I do enjoy playing it as a character, but that's just because it's so terrible that it keeps me on my feet.

 

[DerfMidWest]

he ain't that bad.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I had some thoughts regarding how to redesign Pichu for an SSBM hack that would differentiate him from Pikachu.

 

[Bambi_]

Hate to bump and oldish thread, but I have just what you're looking for. I've put more time into that than I'm willing to admit and I edit it somewhat frequently. Any praise/criticism/money will be gladly accepted.

 

[Canuckduck]

Hate to bump and oldish thread, but I have just what you're looking for. I've put more time into that than I'm willing to admit and I edit it somewhat frequently. Any praise/criticism/money will be gladly accepted.

I like it.

 

[DerfMidWest]

not gonna lie, I didn't even read it.
but all he needs are these three things:

1) Invincibility frames during the initial part of upB (along with a quicker movement speed on it)

2) actual tech rolls

3) enhanced range on ftilt, dtilt, utilt, fsmash, and dsmash (and grab lol)

oh and having uair actually do damage would be helpful

 

[Bambi_]

not gonna lie, I didn't even read it.
but all he needs are these three things:

1) Invincibility frames during the initial part of upB (along with a quicker movement speed on it)

2) actual tech rolls

3) enhanced range on ftilt, dtilt, utilt, fsmash, and dsmash (and grab lol)

oh and having uair actually do damage would be helpful

I've got the fast up b, tech rolls, range on several of those moves, and the uair damage. And a bunch of other dumb stuff.

 

[DerfMidWest]

all the other stuff would be unnecessary

 

[Bambi_]

I think you're underestimating how ****ty this character is. It's got nothing in the neutral except for nairs. Thunder Jolt's lag is so long that it's punishable. It has trouble comboing everyone except for fast fallers, it gets chain grabbed by half the cast, and its range is minuscule, even if you buff it up on those moves. How do you expect this character to compete with the likes of Fox if all it has now is a nair, an upsmash, and a forward tech roll?

 

[DerfMidWest]

dude trust me, I've been playing this character for years.
Nair is godlike, it's actually something hightiers have to worry about because pichu, similar to pikachu, is one of the only non-spacey characters who can safely approach (when done correctly)
his neutral game actually isn't his problem at all, he handles it very well...

the majority of his game other than that is just spacing tilts/aerials on shields and stuff and abusing his disjointed hitboxes.

invincibility on the initial upB grants him an even safer approach (which he already has), out of shield option (which he already has), ledge option (of which he already has several), and just makes his general movement game near unpunishable

also pichu only gets chaingrabbed by (provided you're actually DIing) sheik, Falcon (which is escapable before kill percent), ICs, ganon, mario (only at low-percent) and himself... thats a lot less than half the cast

 

[Ganonthegreat]

Give him a notch-eared partner and call them Pichu Bros.

 

[DerfMidWest]

I've been talking about how amazing the pichu bros and/or plusle+minun would be for years.
but I have IC bias.
you'd have to remove rapid jab though, because you could wobble for free with it. And unlike ICs, pichu actually has grab setups that aren't gimmicks.

 

[Comet7]

If pichu had tech rolls and could use any move out of shield...

 

[DerfMidWest]

honestly, pichu's shield options aren't THAT bad. nair, usmash, and uair are all really good in their respective situations.
upB OoS is also good in the right situations.
you can get out of pressure in a lot of situations, it's not like having shine OoS or sheik's massive frame 3 nair (pichu's nair is also like frame 3 or 4 though, it just doesn't have range)

 

[Comet7]

honestly, pichu's shield options aren't THAT bad. nair, usmash, and uair are all really good in their respective situations.
upB OoS is also good in the right situations.
you can get out of pressure in a lot of situations, it's not like having shine OoS or sheik's massive frame 3 nair (pichu's nair is also like frame 3 or 4 though, it just doesn't have range)

Well yeah, but if you could headbutt out of shield, that could end shine pressure. since nair hits on frame 3 after the jumpsquat animation which lasts another 3 frames, effectively making it hit at frame 6, and I don't know if that's fast enough.

 

[DerfMidWest]

just buffer roll out of shine pressure.

 

[jaYcob]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQjEbd0S5Qo

 

[Bambi_]

I'm really not a fan of IC'd Pichu. You'd have to recreate the entire character to prevent it from being broken. It takes a very specific type of character to prevent the IC'd version from having a lot of even more infinites/general obnoxious jank. For example, if you look at IC's multihits, both send away and both are laggy. With appropriate desynching and fast enough fingers, it would be possible to put out a jab every single frame with Pichu Bros/Plusle + Minun. I obviously have no way to test it, but I feel like down throwing with lead Pichu and fairing (or even spamming jab) with the other would be terrible as well. Many, many moves would need to be changed entirely/nerfed just to have the character not be silly and broken.

As much fun as ICs stuff can be (m2k_vs_wobbles.gif), I don't know how I feel about bogging down an already existing character with all of that stuff. Obviously, having a second of the same character is a huge buff and probably one of the few buffs it would need to be viable, but it would be left with its garbage moves that don't work and a tacked on extra version of itself, completely reinventing the entire character without actually making it function. I'd much rather just fix that bits of it that are bad while maintaining the general gist of the character. Using it as a base to make an awkwardly polarized character rather than addressing its obvious holes leaves a bad taste in my mouth.


EDIT: Also, yeah, Pichu's OOS options are not one of its weakpoints. It doesn't need anything in that department when it has nair and usmash already.

 

[DerfMidWest]

I'm really not a fan of IC'd Pichu. You'd have to recreate the entire character to prevent it from being broken. It takes a very specific type of character to prevent the IC'd version from having a lot of even more infinites/general obnoxious jank. For example, if you look at IC's multihits, both send away and both are laggy. With appropriate desynching and fast enough fingers, it would be possible to put out a jab every single frame with Pichu Bros/Plusle + Minun. I obviously have no way to test it, but I feel like down throwing with lead Pichu and fairing (or even spamming jab) with the other would be terrible as well. Many, many moves would need to be changed entirely/nerfed just to have the character not be silly and broken.

As much fun as ICs stuff can be (m2k_vs_wobbles.gif), I don't know how I feel about bogging down an already existing character with all of that stuff. Obviously, having a second of the same character is a huge buff and probably one of the few buffs it would need to be viable, but it would be left with its garbage moves that don't work and a tacked on extra version of itself, completely reinventing the entire character without actually making it function. I'd much rather just fix that bits of it that are bad while maintaining the general gist of the character. Using it as a base to make an awkwardly polarized character rather than addressing its obvious holes leaves a bad taste in my mouth.


EDIT: Also, yeah, Pichu's OOS options are not one of its weakpoints. It doesn't need anything in that department when it has nair and usmash already.

you wouldn't have to change that much, honestly.
just having infinites wouldn't necessarily be gamebreaking (like I said, rapid jab would be the only real change)
Pichu would probably be able to do a dthrow->fair cg, but it would be escapable similar to IC's dthrow-dair
probably some form of fthrow->(landing)dair too.

just remember that DI/SDI/buffer rolls go a long way.

you wouldn't have to change that much.

doesn't matter anyway, it's all just theory ****.

 

[Nefnoj]

I'm a bit late given the last post was two months ago... But just yesterday I had an idea on how to buff Pichu without doin' the whole "Pichu Bros." thing... It might be a tad bit overpowered.

So we all know that Pichu hurts himself... But what if it built a charge over time? Working like Lucario's aura, anytime Pichu would hurt himself, it builds up an electrical field that increases over time. This electrical field can, at 75% self-damage, grow to a radius of Bowser size, and anytime someone gets within this field, they receive the same amount of damage as Pichu does on an electrical attack... Without flinching! It'll also upgrade Pichu's standard-special to one of Rayquaza's fancy beam things. Maybe. I think switching out Pichu's thunder jolt for a projectile that moves in a straight line would be a nice semi-clone change. The thunderbolt would cause an explosion to anyone in the electrical field, resetting the charge to 0% without changing Pichu's damage.

Or just make it so that self-damage builds up a Project M-styled Lucas thing.

That too.

 

[DerfMidWest]

pfffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffft.