How is No One Talking About this Girl's Recovery Game

[suarsuar]

Hihi,

I was browsing the Sheik board today and I noticed no one has really addressed how ridiculous Sheik's recovery game is in this iteration of Smash.

I had trouble in Project M and Melee because Vanish had such a limited range though still had a good mix up potential.

Now with Bouncing Fish, Vanish's improved hitboxes and windboxes, and a impossible-not-to-grab ledge mechanic, Sheik is just like so great at getting back from just about anything from anywhere on the map.

Below is a screen I added in with a few examples.

Note that in the key:
- x = starting position away from the stage from a knockback
- bf = Bouncing Fish
- fair = forward aerial
- nair = neutral aerial
- bair = back air
- ff = fast fall

The aerials are simple examples of how to start up the neutral game back up on a possible enemy who is trying to still try your life. These are just examples so they don't apply in every situation.

Also you can guide a falling Sheik away from the stage, such as in the rightmost example, such that you can curve her out of the reach of most members from the cast, fall to the bottom corner of the map, and recover through stupid combinations of 1 jump, 1 long Bouncing Fish, and a Vanish right underneath the stage.

The reason for this post is to really highlight the advantages Sheik has off stage to new and returning players.

I would stress the importance of Sheik's ability to regain control even when she is in the disadvantage state of the game off stage.

There is so much more control now in the air for Sheik to turn the tides of battle.

Getting approached with a fair? Then fast fall, Bouncing Fish underneath them, and Vanish to safety.

Ness jocking on your game with PK Thunder? Aerial dodge, jump, Bouncing Fish onto him.

Ganon trying to bair you into oblivion? Jump, Bouncing Fish over him or Vanish through him.


The neat thing too is how dynamic Bouncing Fish can be with variable ranges.

You can reset the game so easily now by Bouncing Fish towards underneath the stage and closing the gap along the bottom edge of the stage with Vanish. Just don't get bair'd into the stage or you will have to tech immediately.

It is so stupid how many options you have in the air that she sits at the top of the recovery tier list along with Jiggs, Kirby, and Metaknight in my opinion.

Do not underestimate her range and test all sorts of combinations off stage -- her biggest merits are derived from the insane amount of options she has.

And as most of you probably know, you can even go underneath most Battle Field sized stages by fast falling from the ledge, long Bouncing Fish underneath, 1 jump, and one diagonal Vanish. You would be surprised at how many fake outs you can initiate with this and the amount of time it buys you. The only option your enemy has is to wait for you to get to the other side at which point you can rethink your game. Be careful as the ledge invulnerability frames might not have reset and a simple bair from some characters can send you straight down.

Anyways, that's all I would like to share and I welcome any new findings and opinions.

Bar none I believe this entire side of her game solidifies her placement in the Top Tier™.

 

[T0MMY]

Very nice post.
I miss having the whip tether option so much though.
SAKURAI!!!!!

 

[suarsuar]

Very nice post.
I miss having the whip tether option so much though.
SAKURAI!!!!!

I would trade that a hundred times over for the Burst Grenade's overall utility.

Plus tethering isn't as valuable anymore as the ledge mechanics are vastly different.

Before you could tether when someone was grabbing anyways so the utility of the tether was high.

Now it's a party on the ledge so it's not as important.

 

[Judo777]

I said this like 2 days into the new smash being released. Sheik definitely has one of the best recoveries in the game. Even without bouncing fish it would be extremely good. In brawl her recovery was a very solid 50/50 and in this game, one of the 50/50 options has been taken away for anyone trying to edge guard sheik. It's like a head or tails situation, where they decided to remove heads...... yes her recovery is amazing now. But IMO sheik has ALWAYs had stellar offstage game even in brawl. She could usually go toe to toe with most characters in the game offstage, that wasn't named MK. So I don't find this to be an extraordinary strength of sheiks, as she has always been well endowed offstage. Her weakensses are still the same as they ever were.

Also I do NOT agree with grenade being much better than chain. Maybe without the tether it would be (maybe only a little but im biased) better but the tether is huge. I will give you that defensively it is not needed with the new mechanics, but OFFENSIVELY it was a big deal. Aside from giving you the ability to edge hog with it effectively (removed in the new game) it allowed you to get back to the ledge very quickly. Sheiks tether encompassed the primary reason anyone even contemplates using the instant up b custom gale. It lets you get to the ledge quickly so you can continue an offensive edge guard on your opponent. Very seldomly will you gimp someone experienced without needing to return to the ledge at least once during their recovery. Her tether let her get to the ledge very quickly when she needed it to ledge drop and go out for another aerial.

 

[suarsuar]

I said this like 2 days into the new smash being released. Sheik definitely has one of the best recoveries in the game. Even without bouncing fish it would be extremely good. In brawl her recovery was a very solid 50/50 and in this game, one of the 50/50 options has been taken away for anyone trying to edge guard sheik. It's like a head or tails situation, where they decided to remove heads...... yes her recovery is amazing now. But IMO sheik has ALWAYs had stellar offstage game even in brawl. She could usually go toe to toe with most characters in the game offstage, that wasn't named MK. So I don't find this to be an extraordinary strength of sheiks, as she has always been well endowed offstage. Her weakensses are still the same as they ever were.

Also I do NOT agree with grenade being much better than chain. Maybe without the tether it would be (maybe only a little but im biased) better but the tether is huge. I will give you that defensively it is not needed with the new mechanics, but OFFENSIVELY it was a big deal. Aside from giving you the ability to edge hog with it effectively (removed in the new game) it allowed you to get back to the ledge very quickly. Sheiks tether encompassed the primary reason anyone even contemplates using the instant up b custom gale. It lets you get to the ledge quickly so you can continue an offensive edge guard on your opponent. Very seldomly will you gimp someone experienced without needing to return to the ledge at least once during their recovery. Her tether let her get to the ledge very quickly when she needed it to ledge drop and go out for another aerial.

I would credit you with this knowledge had I seen it, but I am relatively new to the boards and this post is aimed at creating a dialogue -- which we are now -- so no offense at all.

And when we talking about the grenade, I am talking about it in the context of Smash 4 and its new ledge exclusively. Clearly tethering is an asset many characters would benefit greatly from having, but unfortunately she lost it and this game features a whole new world of edge mechanics.


My biggest point is that she can reset the game off stage to a higher degree that most characters cannot fathom and I think that's major.

Being able to stall out your opponent and repositioning yourself at your leisure is a feature that should not be overlooked.

 

[Judo777]

No offense at all taken, sometimes when i post i think i accidentally sound condescending, I don't ever mean to.

And I agree completely, her ability avoid traps almost entirely is pretty incredible.

I do miss my tether tho, but its not needed because even using tether offensively in the context i mentioned, you could only do it 3 times before you had to get back on stage so any sheik payer had to be comfortable and using upb to get to the ledge in the middle of a gimp attempt to refresh jumps to continue.

 

[suarsuar]

No worries. I didn't even play Brawl tbh so I can't argue for or against anything you're saying.

At least the Sheik boards are starting to talk a bit more as older Sheiks come out of the wood work.

We'll probably see this place flooded after events leading up to Apex and Apex itself.

 

[Orion*]

i really think you can just auto pilot and recover low with her in about 99% of situations lmao, no need to stress yourself with a billion mixups that likely will put you in bad positions

 

[suarsuar]

i really think you can just auto pilot and recover low with her in about 99% of situations lmao, no need to stress yourself with a billion mixups that likely will put you in bad positions

Can you elaborate on auto piloting?

 

[Othayuni]

OP and I are on the same wavelength. Yes, absolutely. Sheik is -so- agile in the air; not only can she come back from anywhere, but she can do it in an evasive, agile, unpredictable style. How many times have I recovered just by going heel-to-face with someone who was waiting at the edge to trap me by using a bouncing fish? Back on the stage -and- now they're ready to be juggled.

I, too, adore the grenades, though they have nothing to do with recovery aside from replacing the tether. But bouncing fish and no-edge-hogging is better than the tether, isn't it?

 

[Shack]

I don't think it's a hot topic because everyone already knows how beast her recovery is. There isn't much to write a guide on outside of reminding people to use BF. People have mentioned her recovery in videos though.

Can you elaborate on auto piloting?

As in, don't worry about all the different ways to come back and just use the safest option in almost every matchup.

 

[Othayuni]

I don't think it's a hot topic because everyone already knows how beast her recovery is. There isn't much to write a guide on outside of reminding people to use BF. People have mentioned her recovery in videos though.

Yeah, I guess it's pretty obvious. Such a big difference though from previous games, eh? Recovery did not used to be a selling point of sheik.

 

[Orion*]

Just recover low and 99% of the cast can't gimp you other than trump mixups.