How is Lucas's performance in the elements of Brawl?

[ParanoidDrone]

Ask and ye shall receive. :D

SURVIVABILITY
Recovery - Lucas's recovery, contrary to what some people may think, is not easily gimpable. The second jump and PKT2 are about the only similarities Lucas's recovery has with Ness's. Not only does his PK Thunder go through anyone trying to steal the bolt, his PKT2 has more range than Ness's and doesn't slow down when it hits. Furthermore, Lucas has a tether recovery with surprising reach when one considers its range when used onstage. If this wasn't enough, Lucas has 2 ATs at his disposal that he can use separately or combined to further aid his recovery: Zap Jump and Magnet Pull. Even if Lucas is in a situation where several of these options are missing, he has two spikes that he can use to turn around an edgeguarding attempt. Easy

Staying Power - Also contrary to popular belief, Lucas is more of a light middleweight than a true lightweight, although he still gets knocked around fairly easily. Lucas is unique in that he is one of two characters (the other one being Ness) that can restore his health and go from being KOable to surviving another smash, although this is not an option against more characters than not. His reflective fsmash also discourages attempts to pick him off from a distance, forcing close-range combat for most KOs. While Lucas specializes in defensive play and is certainly capable of holding players off, he is light enough to make that one lucky smash enough to KO him. Intermediate.

EDIT: Once we come to a consensus here on the state of this thing, would everyone be alright with me posting it in the main thread in Tactical Discussion?

EDIT THE SECOND: I'll also copypasta this into my first writeup on page 1.

EDIT THE THIRD: I don't want to double post, so I'll ask here: did anyone disagree with Lucas's aerial zoning? I have him as below average for now, since while they complement his ground game nicely, he doesn't have anything special against another aerial opponent.

Natch: I got your request but don't know if it was successful or not. First time and all. Confirmation pl0x?

 

[Natch]

Below Average in the Air is about where he's at.

As for the rest of it, I agree. Easy to recover with, and Intermediate staying power. I think we're good here.

Nice job too. Y'know, now that I think about it, I haven't really seen you before. When'd you start posting here?

 

[ParanoidDrone]

I joined in January 08, but I didn't post a whole lot at first. Not surprising, I guess. I started becoming more involved about...a month or two ago? Around when the matchup thread started would be a good ballpark guesstimate. (lol Firefox recognizes guesstimate as a word) (Actually, no, later than that. When it started on Ike, I'd say.)

Also, I've been working on a guide for making weather teams in Pokemon, so I've been in the proper mindset for this as of late.

I am too edit happy today: I made final edits to the original writeup, mostly rewording stuff. I mention what was touched at the bottom of the post if anyone's interested. If no one objects, I plan to post this in the topic linked in the OP.

 

[Veng]

I have to 100% disagree with his air game being bad, who ever the first reponse was.

Dair and Bair can both spike, Nair is a very good attack that makes your opponent mad, Uair is a weird attack, but kinda an unexpected one, because his head goes DOWN then up, just my opinion. Then you can always pk fire in the air.

 

[~Pink Fresh~]

I joined in January 08, but I didn't post a whole lot at first. Not surprising, I guess. I started becoming more involved about...a month or two ago? Around when the matchup thread started would be a good ballpark guesstimate. (lol Firefox recognizes guesstimate as a word) (Actually, no, later than that. When it started on Ike, I'd say.)

Also, I've been working on a guide for making weather teams in Pokemon, so I've been in the proper mindset for this as of late.

I am too edit happy today: I made final edits to the original writeup, mostly rewording stuff. I mention what was touched at the bottom of the post if anyone's interested. If no one objects, I plan to post this in the topic linked in the OP.

yaayyyyy weather teams! i love good sandstorm teams. cradily becomes such a beastly special wall. T-tar is even better. lucario does well. uhm... oh ya Garchomp is a little more evasive. Donphan/Hippowdon/Gliscor are just good physical walls or sweepers. Bronzong, skarmory, scizor. omg sandstorm teams are **** lol. sorry i just love pokemon. Rain dance teams are good too.

I have to 100% disagree with his air game being bad, who ever the first reponse was.

Dair and Bair can both spike, Nair is a very good attack that makes your opponent mad, Uair is a weird attack, but kinda an unexpected one, because his head goes DOWN then up, just my opinion. Then you can always pk fire in the air.

back to smash...
Dair/Bair are spikes that are harder to hit with than most spikes, and Dair isn't even that good of a spike. it's more like a meteor smash. nair has like little to no priority, fair gets shield grabbed like no tomorrow. unless retreating Fair and even then people with long grab range *i'm looking at you Dedede* can do it easy. one Fair to a DK = shield grab ----> grab realease to about 110% ----> Dsmash and the stock is gone. Also in the air against other aerial opponents lucas will get handled. not enough range or priority to compete in the air. sorry but his air game is not that good

 

[Jarun]

i think lucas is far superior to all

 

[Natch]

I joined in January 08, but I didn't post a whole lot at first. Not surprising, I guess. I started becoming more involved about...a month or two ago? Around when the matchup thread started would be a good ballpark guesstimate. (lol Firefox recognizes guesstimate as a word) (Actually, no, later than that. When it started on Ike, I'd say.)

Also, I've been working on a guide for making weather teams in Pokemon, so I've been in the proper mindset for this as of late.

I am too edit happy today: I made final edits to the original writeup, mostly rewording stuff. I mention what was touched at the bottom of the post if anyone's interested. If no one objects, I plan to post this in the topic linked in the OP.

I give you the green light. ParanoidDrone, I'm happy you're on these boards. I like your writing skills.

I have to 100% disagree with his air game being bad, who ever the first reponse was.

Dair and Bair can both spike, Nair is a very good attack that makes your opponent mad, Uair is a weird attack, but kinda an unexpected one, because his head goes DOWN then up, just my opinion. Then you can always pk fire in the air.

Not saying his air game is bad FOR him, but bad in comparison to everyone else's. Try playing against a Marth and clash with him in the air and you'll see what I mean. His Aerials are fast, but a little bit low priority.

Pink Fresh, you gotta understand we need to explain things in a way that does not invalidate the other guys' opinions. I love the Aerial game Lucas has to offer, and I abuse it as much as I can. But I must realize that I'm not going to be able to clash with somebody like ROB or DDD in the air and expect to win.

The way Lucas wins in the air is because he's got insane speed on his Aerials. And Fair is telegraphed, meaning that there is a disjointed hitbox that doesn't move with you. A seperate hitbox is created in the air, and it stays in the exact same place for a brief period of time.

Do a rising Fair, and a falling Fair. Notice how the hexagons change position reletive to Lucas' foot. This odd hitbox is what makes Fair usable.

Veng is right in thinking that Lucas has a good Aerial game, but in comparison to everyone else, it's a bit low priority.

 

[Levitas]

What lucas really has is a good shield pressure game, which is bizzare in a world with so little shield stun.

 

[ToxiCrow]

KILLING

• Killing power
• Gimping potential

Thanks a bunch.

i'm only going to comment on killing and gimping

Killing Power
Lucas has no problem ko-ing anyone. he's got a whole bunch of moves capable of doing so.

Forward Smash: it's got decent speed. it's not the fastest but isn't slow enough to be considered real slow. it's also really strong and if someone is near the edge, it can ko them with percentages around 80%. I'm going to say average(in speed)/above average in power.

Down Smash: This is good in the middle of the stage or on the edge. it hits 3 times and the 2nd/3rd hit may not be as strong as the 1st one, it's still strong enough to ko. i find it useful against people who like to spotdodge alot, and against characters with predictable recovery. And it can attack behind you ONLY IF the opponent is facing Lucas' back and only the 3rd one hits. On the edge: Above average. On the stage: Above/Average

UpSmash: ok everyone knows how powerful it is, but the lag is TERRIBLE. yeah it can KO with percentages as low as 58%, but it's very low priority. Because of the lag, i'm going to hav to say Below Average (feel free to call me out on this)

D-air: You already know it can spike at around 90% if u approach with it. not a bad move at all. i'm going to say Average because i can't really find anything wrong with it.

B-air: amazing power. it might've been last weekend or early this week, but in the Lucas boards we were talking about where the sweetspot is for the spike and we kinda agreed it was on his toe. i've done a little bit of testing and will do more just to make sure. this can ko around 40% i believe. once they get hit with this, they aren't coming back up! Above Average

PSI-Magnet: It's a Psuedo-Spike!! Pretty strong too. . . .but it's very situational. i dont think i've ever KO'd someone with it in an actual fight. some might argue that you can use it by short-hopping and approaching with it. it's only worked once for me. Unless someone can prove me wrong, i'm going to say Below Average

Gimping
As for Gimping, PK Thunder is a really good move. The ball at the Begining of PK Thunder knocks back, so turning it and hitting with it is a great gimping move. I still use this when i play as Lucas and it gets me alot of KO's. I'm going to say Above Average.

that's all i have to say on the matter

 

[themrskills]

I"m going to have to call you out on that upsmash, toxicrow. Yeah, the lag is insanely long, but the priority is pretty high. The hitbox is huge above lucas's head. Many times I've slamed people with it who don't know how big that hitbox is and think that they are out of range. Any character with a predictable recovery(DDD anyone?), is going to hit by it if the lucas player knows what's going on. I'd give it at least average, if not above average. Power has to sacrifice some speed/lag. If you want a speedy upwards attack, go for utilt.

 

[Levitas]

Usmash is situational. You can't do it unless they're luigi or something.

If you want power and speed, play game and watch.

His analysis of Usmash is correct.

 

[ToxiCrow]

I"m going to have to call you out on that upsmash, toxicrow. Yeah, the lag is insanely long, but the priority is pretty high. The hitbox is huge above lucas's head. Many times I've slamed people with it who don't know how big that hitbox is and think that they are out of range. Any character with a predictable recovery(DDD anyone?), is going to hit by it if the lucas player knows what's going on. I'd give it at least average, if not above average. Power has to sacrifice some speed/lag. If you want a speedy upwards attack, go for utilt.

themrskills, i agree that at times power makes up for speed.
however the power in his upsmash doesn't make up for the amount of lag. the hitbox is huge, but if you're playing someone who is the leastbit familiar with brawl, they already know the upsmash is coming and can airdodge away and get away b4 the upsmash comes out. it can ko easy, but it's also easy to avoid.
i'm not saying i hate this move or anything cuz i use it all the time, but it is what it is. its very situational.

(finished my previous comment)