How is Falcon going to approach in this game?

[ClickDecision]

Was sparring against the computer when I noticed that against shorter members of the cast his first kick misses when doing nairs. After watching and playing so much with melee falcon I'm left scratching my head.

- no dash dance
- nair's first kick misses on short characters
- knee has crazy recovery time

What I've seen zero do (which seems risky) is mix up between dash attacks and dash in grabs. But I don't like flipping a coin like that. It'd be different with dash dancing as we'd be able to bait something out first before going in...but from what I was seeing it was just a full commitment with no real contingency plan.

Is there another way to approach that I'm not thinking of? y'know something safer?

 

[Masonomace]

Was sparring against the computer when I noticed that against shorter members of the cast his first kick misses when doing nairs. After watching and playing so much with melee falcon I'm left scratching my head.

- no dash dance
- nair's first kick misses on short characters
- knee has crazy recovery time

What I've seen zero do (which seems risky) is mix up between dash attacks and dash in grabs. But I don't like flipping a coin like that. It'd be different with dash dancing as we'd be able to bait something out first before going in...but from what I was seeing it was just a full commitment with no real contingency plan.

Is there another way to approach that I'm not thinking of? y'know something safer?

First, welcome to Smashboards, & happy 1st post.

Second, what do you mean exactly by Nair1 not hitting small characters, like ShortHop+Nair? SH+Falling Nair? Running forward+SH+Nair?
Examples:(Little joke)

What about characters who crouch / crawl?
Examples:

Anyways, approaching with Falcon especially against heavy zoners with a plethora of projectiles makes certain MU's much more difficult than others so bare with me. I'll help in some way:

How to approach​

1. Proceed to taunt "Come on!"
2. Do some Dash Shield Cancels
3. Watch their movement, then proceed to attempt approaching with SH+Uair. This will probably miss small characters.
4. Dash Canceled Pivoted Ftilts.

I may need to know what a falling Uair looks like when landed with. If it doesn't lag at all then a landing grab to any throw is fine. However if landing Uair has lag, then nvm.

 

[ClickDecision]

Well ****...as I was about to experiment this on a few characters I realized that I simply wasn't doing it quick enough. To clarify though I was trying to land a rising nair with both kicks connecting -- which turns out can be done....However!

The head scratching came about though when you notice that his short hop nair is a lot higher than melee's. To give a measurement take battlefield. In melee if you're under a platform and short hop nair his legs are just under it (although the hitbox can hit opponents standing on top of it : P ) but in smash 4 his legs go above it making it a bit tricky to approach with since he goes that much higher than what he did before. So if I approach with it (dash in short hop nair) I'll whiff the first kick making it look like there's an opening on me before i can fast fall in time to hit them with my second kick (since the first one will whiff unless im in point blank range)

 

[Masonomace]

Well ****...as I was about to experiment this on a few characters I realized that I simply wasn't doing it quick enough. To clarify though I was trying to land a rising nair with both kicks connecting -- which turns out can be done....However!

The head scratching came about though when you notice that his short hop nair is a lot higher than melee's. To give a measurement take battlefield. In melee if you're under a platform and short hop nair his legs are just under it (although the hitbox can hit opponents standing on top of it : P ) but in smash 4 his legs go above it making it a bit tricky to approach with since he goes that much higher than what he did before. So if I approach with it (dash in short hop nair) I'll whiff the first kick making it look like there's an opening on me before i can fast fall in time to hit them with my second kick (since the first one will whiff unless im in point blank range)

The last time I played Melee Falcon was too long ago, but I felt Short Hops in Melee frankly were very short to the ground, but I can't say for sure. Now it sounds like Sm4sh Falcon SH+Nair is a mind-game if Nair1 whiffs as you say. That's kind of a doozie, hopefully SH+Uair+Footstool is a thing, so that I can Falcon Kick right after the Footstool.

 

[ClickDecision]

haha i like that idea footstool > falcon kick ^^ (not sure how useful it'd be though : P )

but yeah landing sh rising upairs on a standing opponent even relatively average height opponents like Ike is pretty difficult. you have to be like practically inside of them and be really quick. (it's even difficult to do against bowser o.o) this was much easier to do in melee.

Edit: it's actually impossible against mario. so yeah doesn't seem as reliable as it used to be.

 

[TTTTTsd]

Falcon's approach has always been, unfortunately, quite limited. The most I can think of is SH Nair, or dash shield cancel into Ftilt if they're not respecting your legs. Angled downwards for short characters(who are SUPER ANNOYING for Falcon without the ability to do Dair and reduce lag)

 

[abit_rusty]

SHFFLd nairs were his BnB approach in melee. In brawl you could still use nairs albeit much more unsafe, but you could also follow up with a jab to grab if they tried pressing buttons in shield stun. I imagine no different in smash 4. You pretty much just have to space yourself and mindgame your way in. People keep saying falcon was buffed but I've yet to see anything indicating his relevance.

 

[mlorenzo]

He did get buff. Here is a list of changes.

• He has stronger side B that can KO that no longer loses to random attacks. So it can be use as an approach tool, but is unsafe on block against some of the cast and you can't sd by going offstage.
• Bair is still safe if you cross up their shield, Nair and up air safe and it gives you plenty of options.
• His up air can now beat sword attacks and other disjointed hitboxes.
• B-air has a disjointed hitbox on it.
• No more tripping and pivot allows for spacing of f-smash and f-tilt.
• F-smash is faster and might be safe on block,
• F-tilt feels plus in block but requires more testing.
• Falcon kick is no longer punishable on hit. Knee kills now at low percent.
• Up smash is faster and opens up combos.
• D-tilt send the person in to a downward trajectory that benefits from vectoring.
• His grab dash is godlike now.
• Dash attack leads to combo.
• His jabs beats projectiles and beat a lot of other unexpected moves. (I will test this in-depth)
• Elbow still beats charge shots.
• He has 40 to 50 percent combos.

This is all I got, while playing the game for 5 hours lol. I will be testing this and more in-depth, like I tested his jabs in brawl. You can see my previous testing here http://smashboards.com/threads/in-depth-testing-falcon-jabs.288855/.

 

[Masonomace]

I also wanna note his FSmash acquired a disjoint at the end of his elbow. There's a PotD showcasing it along with a few videos of Falcon using it from questionable range of even landing it on their shield / hurtbox.

 

[Empyrean]

Reverse-aerial-rush (RAR) bair might be a good option too, seeing as the move autocancels. I don't have the game yet so I dunno how feasible this is with 3DS controls, but it might be worth some testing.

 

[Rich Homie Quan]

Fullhop, hop back if you can't strike.

Seriously.

 

[ClickDecision]

I think the main issue I'm seeing is that his short hop seems too high to use any of his aerials as an approach. It all seems too telegraphed to me. I dunno, looking forward to dudes posting matches on how they go about it.

 

[Masonomace]

I think the main issue I'm seeing is that his short hop seems too high to use any of his aerials as an approach. It all seems too telegraphed to me. I dunno, looking forward to dudes posting matches on how they go about it.

Because his SH is relatively high, a new mix-up option for those who sit in shield when seeing Falcon SH+RAR Bair, is a B-Reversed Falcon Punch on their on-going shield (if that's do-able). I'm kind of stretching for this given not everyone sits in shield, but the idea that they stay there sitting in shield sounds more plausible when their % is much higher in the dark red % & may be too scared to roll forward or backward.

The extra icing on top would be if Falcon Punch's shield breaking power increased. Who doesn't want a Shield Break?

 

[A2ZOMG]

Approaching with Falcon is all about the threat of his dashgrab. You want to be outside of their footsies range and be ready to whiff punish them, or find a moment to dash in when they least expect it.

Keep in mind that Raptor Boost is REALLY GOOD in this game and can kill characters fresh at around 90-110. The move in general works well for getting around footsies by forcing spacing mistakes. The massively increased hitbox on the move also tends to at minimum clank with most ground moves, or straight up beat them.

Alternatively, Falcon Kick is a viable tool in midrange for similar purposes. Obviously, both these moves are terrible on shields, but that's where the threat of dashgrabbing comes in.

Once you get the hit, Falcon's game is pretty simple. Use your good aerials and mobility to capitalize on the opponent's negative state. I cannot stress enough that capitalizing on the negative state as Falcon is your key goal to winning.

Really, Falcon's game hasn't changed a bit since Melee. Melee he was considered an above average character mostly because his guaranteed combo potential was ludicrous. In Brawl he lost the vast majority of his reliable combos and followups (well, N-air nerf also hurt a lot too) and thus he was pretty bad. In this game you have limited combo ability, but more importantly Falcon's juggles overall are good because land trap mechanics are strong in this game, allowing you to set up really big moves on a read.

I'd say he's an average but balanced character overall. He has decent room to outplay mostly anyone in this game, and he's respectably scary when he gets in.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

Was sparring against the computer when I noticed that against shorter members of the cast his first kick misses when doing nairs. After watching and playing so much with melee falcon I'm left scratching my head.

- no dash dance
- nair's first kick misses on short characters
- knee has crazy recovery time

What I've seen zero do (which seems risky) is mix up between dash attacks and dash in grabs. But I don't like flipping a coin like that. It'd be different with dash dancing as we'd be able to bait something out first before going in...but from what I was seeing it was just a full commitment with no real contingency plan.

Is there another way to approach that I'm not thinking of? y'know something safer?

sorry bro this game all about risk and reward. less risk less reward more risk more reward. CF if more on the risky side.

 

[jahkzheng]

He did get buff. Here is a list of changes.

• He has stronger side B that can KO that no longer loses to random attacks. So it can be use as an approach tool, but is unsafe on block against some of the cast and you can't sd by going offstage.
• Bair is still safe if you cross up their shield, Nair and up air safe and it gives you plenty of options.
• His up air can now beat sword attacks and other disjointed hitboxes.
• B-air has a disjointed hitbox on it.
• No more tripping and pivot allows for spacing of f-smash and f-tilt.
• F-smash is faster and might be safe on block,
• F-tilt feels plus in block but requires more testing.
• Falcon kick is no longer punishable on hit. Knee kills now at low percent.
• Up smash is faster and opens up combos.
• D-tilt send the person in to a downward trajectory that benefits from vectoring.
• His grab dash is godlike now.
• Dash attack leads to combo.
• His jabs beats projectiles and beat a lot of other unexpected moves. (I will test this in-depth)
• Elbow still beats charge shots.
• He has 40 to 50 percent combos.

This is all I got, while playing the game for 5 hours lol. I will be testing this and more in-depth, like I tested his jabs in brawl. You can see my previous testing here http://smashboards.com/threads/in-depth-testing-falcon-jabs.288855/.

In what little footage I've seen, I remember taking note that dtilt looked pretty buffed. I wonder if it causes greater shield pressure too and what it's hitbox is like. Maybe not an approach tool, but looks like a much safer tool for poking like ftilt appears to be as well.

 

[mlorenzo]

In what little footage I've seen, I remember taking note that dtilt looked pretty buffed. I wonder if it causes greater shield pressure too and what it's hitbox is like. Maybe not an approach tool, but looks like a much safer tool for poking like ftilt appears to be as well.

I will test all his move. But from what I remember his d-tilt will go under a lot of attacks and allow you to put them in a bad position.

 

[Devil G.]

Average but balanced? Excellent! That's all I need.

 

[Escorcho]

Back air's not a bad way to approach. It's fast and has short landing lag.

 

[CitizenSNIPS]

I have a terrible tendency to throw out knees because of Melee. After some more playtime with him I've been approaching a lot with bair, dash attack and raptor boost. Out of all of those bair is probably the easiest to use since it's decently safe, and raptor boost/dashattack more rely on reads.

Can't figure out how to land his nair. Especially against short characters I feel like it's not possible to approach with it. Maybe I just need more work on timing it, but I either FF out of it or it's too high.

 

[Gawain]

I've been doing tremendously well with Captain Falcon in 1 on 1s. Got a 45 out of 50 win rate with the Cap and I feel like he's leagues above most of the cast. What I tend to do is utilize shielding out of dash a lot and abuse his ridiculous dash grab sliding range. The main goal is to get them with a down throw or a dash attack, and into uairs or nairs.

On a side note, Falcon has an incredibly easy time scoring KOs compared to a lot of the cast. Against almost everyone, you can dthrow into a knee of justice as a true combo. It seems to be more difficult to do to heavy guys like Bowser though. For them, just use raptor boost and bair.

 

[Soshii]

I think approaches for Falcon in this game will be more ground-centric. His aerial moves are great, it's just hard to land them against opponents on the ground. His new up-tilt is really interesting, which now spikes or drops them in lower percentages with landing lag for you to keep comboing. His grabs seem to be essential for punishing also. He's really good at dashing in and grabbing in the blink of an eye.

 

[victra♥]

dash attack is love dash attack is life

 

[ClickDecision]

dash attack is love dash attack is life

flipping coins is stupid and so is that meme : P

 

[Soshii]

flipping coins is stupid and so is that meme : P

It isn't flipping a coin though. It's a great punish tool because it keeps his running momentum. You can catch so many landing opponents off guard with how fast it is and it keeps opponents in the air.

 

[victra♥]

Yeah don't be dumb about it. Find the opportunity, get the dash attack, pop them in the air, and go to town with uairs. If they start shielding, then you can start getting the dash grabs, downthrow, and go to town with uairs.

Falcon's approach is much better grounded than via aerial now that the Dash Attack has been buffed. Very comparable to the way Peach approaches in grounded match ups in Melee where you mix up between Dash Attack and grab.

 

[Blazing Ambition]

I honestly don't even nair anymore. Due to some weird mix-up, falcon ended up with marth's grab range, so dashing grabs will snatch people up from RIDICULOUS ranges. Just throw it out whenever you spy someone blocking, and before they know it, they're in your clutches..

 

[Fandangox]

Wow never really tried it for some reason, but you guys were right, his dash grab is insane.

 

[nyttyn]

Yeah, the captain has an incredibly good mixup game on the ground. One thing I've liked to do is just throw in random jabs or backdashes in my approaches - they land a surprising amount of the time, and help to keep your opponent guessing.

Just remember, don't go full aggro. Full aggro = they will show you their moves, and you will feel the hurt.

 

[Soshii]

Yeah, the captain has an incredibly good mixup game on the ground. One thing I've liked to do is just throw in random jabs or backdashes in my approaches - they land a surprising amount of the time, and help to keep your opponent guessing.

Just remember, don't go full aggro. Full aggro = they will show you their moves, and you will feel the hurt.

Probably best way to describe it, to not go full aggro. I'm a very aggro player so I learned my lesson that hard way. Now I mix it up with aggressive approaches and dashing in and shielding to bait them. It's all about reading them and not committing to anything too much.

 

[philipawalker]

One pretty nice approach I use with falcon is:
Full Jump -> Fast Fall -> Nair.
(Also: Full Jump -> Nair -> Fast Fall)

You can either time it to hit on the first kick or the second. Great if it hits, and even if it doesn't, the lag time is so small after landing that even if they are shielding you can often times get in a grab or a gentlemen.

Also, surprisingly, Full Jump -> Fast Fall -> Uair. (Great for setups!) Again, small lag time after landing.

 

[Knee Smasher]

Approach with Falcon Kick, Raptor Boost, or a dash attack.

 

[victra♥]

One pretty nice approach I use with falcon is:
Full Jump -> Fast Fall -> Nair.
(Also: Full Jump -> Nair -> Fast Fall)

You can either time it to hit on the first kick or the second. Great if it hits, and even if it doesn't, the lag time is so small after landing that even if they are shielding you can often times get in a grab or a gentlemen.

Also, surprisingly, Full Jump -> Fast Fall -> Uair. (Great for setups!) Again, small lag time after landing.

This is great (in Melee, Silent Spectre does this a lot). Short hoping instead of fulling jumping (the tomahawk) is great as well since you can flow chart them off of it (they shield, you grab. they drop their shield, you nair/uair/knee. they roll, no consequence to you).

 

[Bonds]

a2zomg is pretty much spot on with how I prefer to play falcon in this iteration of smash.

Dashgrab goes really, really far guys. If you troll just outside the range where your opponent can reasonably hit you, then just about anything can be punished with dashgrab or dash attack, which are both amazing openers for him.