How is Captain Falcon worst then the 4 above him?

[yamas11]

I always see Jigglypuff, Samus, Yoshi, and Ganondorf above him.

Jigglypuff got worst in Brawl due to air dodges and she's the lightest. Samus doesn't have many KO moves and can barely deal damage. Yoshi has the slow shield, and not a true triple jump. And Ganondorf, I might understand it due to his power, but isn't speed usually better?

 

[i.E.]

I always see Jigglypuff, Samus, Yoshi, and Ganondorf above him.

Jigglypuff got worst in Brawl due to air dodges and she's the lightest. Samus doesn't have many KO moves and can barely deal damage. Yoshi has the slow shield, and not a true triple jump. And Ganondorf, I might understand it due to his power, but isn't speed usually better?

Thing is, all the characters you just listed have priority, and moreso than falcon (even jiggs).

Also, jigglypuff isn't as bad as you think, her multiple jumps give her multple fairs to counter approaches. Also dair>>>rest still works pretty well.

Anyway, I think falcon has advantages over Ganondorf (in that particular matchup), but overall on the tier list who knows. They're so close as far as disadvantages go, although Gdorf has better combo ability.

I think samus is terrible. Her spam game isn't that good and, like you said, she's weak. I think falcon is better than samus.

Yoshi is actually a pretty decent character. He matches up well with a lot of the high tier.

 

[Barge]

Those are just tournament rankings, no?

 

[Aran]

Samus has high damage racking ability, contrary to popular belief. Her options take more time to get used to than most characters, however, so it sometimes seems like she can't rack damage, but once you know what to use when, she can pull off some ridiculous combos and has good damage racking capability. Missile cancelling and smart Z-airing, combined with bombs and her uncharged shot, allow her to control the field very well. What really drags her down in the tier list is her lack of a reliable KO move or KO move setup, and her floatiness and vulnerability to chain grabs.

 

[Noodlehead]

Thing is, all the characters you just listed have priority, and moreso than falcon (even jiggs).

Anyway, I think falcon has advantages over Ganondorf (in that particular matchup), but overall on the tier list who knows. They're so close as far as disadvantages go, although Gdorf has better combo ability.

falcon has no advantages,i use to think he has some over ganon but i was wrong
falcon has bad approach and bad priority

 

[bowz]

Falcons best approach is Falcon Kick.

Falcon Kick is a horrid approach.

 

[Red Alloy]

Don't forget the lack of hitstun. That's pretty much the source of all his problems except priority, but he could get around that by just comboing if we had hitstun.

I've actually seen some recent lists in the official tier list discussion thread put Ganon below Falcon, but the SBR weekly thread on Ganon (their synopsis, mostly) leads me to believe Falcon will be at the bottom.

 

[Doggalina]

Dorf has murder choke tech chasing, which is more than Falcon could ever hope for.

 

[:034:]

Ganondorf has techchasing and kill moves. Jigglypuff has combo's and kill moves. Samus has projectiles, zair, a better approach and Yoshi has wavedashing and killmoves.

yeah

 

[Roager]

Dorf has murder choke tech chasing, which is more than Falcon could ever hope for.

Falcon can tech-chase... Raptor Boost, Falcon Kick, Dash Attack. And, unlike Ganny's choke, these are far easier to lead into other moves.

 

[i.E.]

falcon has no advantages,i use to think he has some over ganon but i was wrong
falcon has bad approach and bad priority

Gdorf doesn't have as many advantages in the matchup against falcon. Falcon wins out if the two players are of equal skill for the most part. Me and Key argued this forever in the tier list discussion thread.......so if anyone's going to argue, take it over there please.

 

[talkingbeatles]

Falcons best approach is Falcon Kick.

Falcon Kick is a horrid approach.

So true...

 

[E.M.]

Ganondorf has techchasing and kill moves. Jigglypuff has combo's and kill moves. Samus has projectiles, zair, a better approach and Yoshi has wavedashing and killmoves.

You make it sound like CF doesn't have kill moves, which is total BS. Dsmash, Fsmash, Fair, Bair, Dair, and sweet spotted Uair all are capable of killing at decent percentages. Even his Utilt is a good kill move.

CF is not a good character because of priority. Many a time a falcon kick was stopped dead in its tracks from the weakest of attacks.

 

[Tenki]

I always see Jigglypuff, Samus, Yoshi, and Ganondorf above him.

Jigglypuff got worst in Brawl due to air dodges and she's the lightest. Samus doesn't have many KO moves and can barely deal damage. Yoshi has the slow shield, and not a true triple jump. And Ganondorf, I might understand it due to his power, but isn't speed usually better?

My question is more why you don't ask why Sonic is above Falcon.

I remember everyone used to say "lol Sonic has worse priority than Falcon". Combine that with much less killing power and on paper, you have a worse character than Falcon who in most recent tier lists seems to be scraping bottom-mid and low.

Jigglypuff: Has decent priority and rather high KO power. Very nice aerial control so she can be hard to hit, and off-stage, can gimp people pretty hard.

Samus: Continuous SHAD Z-airs make her a tough opponent. She's very aerial so, like Peach, it's hard to get grabs on her. She also has an interesting spacing game- her bombs, lagless aerials, and Z-air make for interesting retreating setups, and her KO game is still better than say, Sonic. A Samus floating around is alot harder to hit than you'd want to admit `.`;

Yoshi: Yoshi generally doesn't need shield anyway. A retreating pivot grab can counter almost any character's melee approaches (including MK's SH F-air) and is pretty lagless to boot. High priority up-smash, hard-to-gimp recovery (psst, try footstooling a Yoshi just to get U/N-aired), etc.

Ganondorf: control/momentum can be taken and shifted with Ganondorf's side-B and various 'brickwall' movements. He has no 'advantageous' matchups because of his slow movement speed+lack of projectile, but once he lands those 6-8 hits, it's over.

 

[Someone7]

I tried playing some with Jiggs the other day, man she sucks. I'm sure if I bothered to read up on her and learn some stuff, she might not suck so bad, but my first thought was "She is even worse than Falcon!" Her moves seemed like the laggiest in the game.

A good Samus can be ultra-annoying with a good Z-air game, plus Samus can string attacks together in a manner that is very hard to avoid.

Yoshi doesn't suck. A good Yoshi can be very difficult.

Ganondorf, I don't know. I play him a little, haven't really bothered reading up strategies and whatnot, but he honestly does seem worse to me. But again, I don't really play him to get a feel for how he is supposed to be used, unlike Falcon.

In any case, all these characters have something going for them, while Falcon doesn't. I still think he is bottom of the barrel. I still think he can be played effectively. I myself have definitely found that you basically have to spam Falcon Kick like crazy. Punish everything they do with Falcon Kick. Running grabs are good, and if you can keep them in the air, you can do some damage with U-airs. Falcon's edgeplay can be very interesting too, as you can often Up-B people standing too close to the edge.

 

[talkingbeatles]

I second Ganon. Falcon is worse. Definitely.
Ganon has good priority, and nearly everything he has got is a kill move. His murder choke is amazing, and his wizard kick is actually a pretty good approach. And his u-tilt.... not totally useless. It's actually a pretty good edge guard move. It sucks people in, man!

 

[i.E.]

I second Ganon. Falcon is worse. Definitely.
Ganon has good priority, and nearly everything he has got is a kill move. His murder choke is amazing, and his wizard kick is actually a pretty good approach. And his u-tilt.... not totally useless. It's actually a pretty good edge guard move. It sucks people in, man!

One more time....I never said Ganondorf wasn't better than Falcon. All I said was that in that matchup, Falcon VS Ganondorf. That particular matchup.....Falcon has more advantages than Ganondorf.

 

[Kitamerby]

Falcon's Uair doesn't kill in Multi-man Brawl.

Meta Knight's does.

Explain to me the logic.

 

[i.E.]

Falcon's Uair doesn't kill in Multi-man Brawl.

Meta Knight's does.

Explain to me the logic.

Makes no sense

*head explodes*

 

[bombr]

I tried playing some with Jiggs the other day, man she sucks. I'm sure if I bothered to read up on her and learn some stuff, she might not suck so bad, but my first thought was "She is even worse than Falcon!" Her moves seemed like the laggiest in the game.

Though Jigglypuff's smashes and sing are laggy, her smashes are mediocre at best, and she's light, she has great air mobility, pound, lagless aerials, multiple jumps, a great recovery, the fastest air speed in the game, and drillrest.

Captain Falcon has no priority, no approach, no reliable kill move, and a mediocre recovery... Does he really have anything going for him? Uh... Nothing.

 

[i.E.]

Though Jigglypuff's smashes and sing are laggy, her smashes are mediocre at best, and she's light, she has great air mobility, pound, lagless aerials, multiple jumps, a great recovery, the fastest air speed in the game, and drillrest.

Captain Falcon has no priority, no approach, no reliable kill move, and a mediocre recovery... Does he really have anything going for him? Uh... Nothing.

lol.

No character in this game has "nothing" going for them.

 

[talkingbeatles]

One more time....I never said Ganondorf wasn't better than Falcon. All I said was that in that matchup, Falcon VS Ganondorf. That particular matchup.....Falcon has more advantages than Ganondorf.

Oh for sure. No argument there. I was basically replying to someone, who I believe was saying Ganon didn't seem to have much going for him.
In the character match up thread though, I believe Ganon is one of the only characters (Squirtle is the other one) that has a disadvantage against Falcon.

 

[i.E.]

Oh for sure. No argument there. I was basically replying to someone, who I believe was saying Ganon didn't seem to have much going for him.
In the character match up thread though, I believe Ganon is one of the only characters (Squirtle is the other one) that has a disadvantage against Falcon.

lol I never got the whole "falcon owns squirtle" thing....

short characters **** me, seriously. lol. And it's not like squirtle's a bad character, he's quick with good aerials. And he's short which kicks falcon's ***.....

and he's short......
and.

short...lol

 

[leelue]

Though Jigglypuff's smashes and sing are laggy, her smashes are mediocre at best, and she's light, she has great air mobility, pound, lagless aerials, multiple jumps, a great recovery, the fastest air speed in the game, and drillrest.

Actually, i think they tested it and Yoshi has a faster air speed. Leave it to a worse character to outdo her in the one spot she is supposed to be best in.

Now to put something in that actually matters to the conversation, I think, unless they changed it, that Ganon has Zero favorable matchups on the board (even tho i personally do well against luigi but w/e).
At least falcon has a couple.

 

[talkingbeatles]

lol I never got the whole "falcon owns squirtle" thing....

short characters **** me, seriously. lol. And it's not like squirtle's a bad character, he's quick with good aerials. And he's short which kicks falcon's ***.....

and he's short......
and.

short...lol

Yeah, I know man! I can't fight Squirtle at all. And it's because he's so freakin' short. The only way I feel I can approach him is with the kick, and I hate approaching with that falcon kick. I never know what to do against him.

 

[Wogrim]

Falcons best approach is Falcon Kick.

Falcon Kick is a horrid approach.

How is Falcon Kick a better approach than Raptor Boost or NAir? I'd say even Dash attack is better because of shield pushback and lower lag. Falcon Kick isn't an approach it's a punishment/chasing move.

Dorf has murder choke tech chasing, which is more than Falcon could ever hope for.

That's exactly the sort of thing I think we should be hoping for. I think I mentioned it in another thread already too. I was like "we can probably find some followups like the stuff ganon does after his side-b" or something like that (I'm not going to hunt down the post, but it was recent).

 

[EarthLord_CJ]

That's exactly the sort of thing I think we should be hoping for. I think I mentioned it in another thread already too. I was like "we can probably find some followups like the stuff ganon does after his side-b" or something like that (I'm not going to hunt down the post, but it was recent).

While I agree with your view that there could be some potential follow-ups with the Raptor Boost, it is different to Ganon's Choke, in that it doesn't ground them for a short while, but shoots the opponent in the air. This, of course, gives enough room at higher percentages to air-dodge, DI or otherwise counter what Falcon could possibly follow-up with. there may be some ways around that, though...

At lower percentages, however, that's another story.

EDIT: Sorry, you were probably not referring to just the Raptor Boost in general. I missed the implication.

 

[Wogrim]

Don't forget the lack of hitstun. That's pretty much the source of all his problems except priority, but he could get around that by just comboing if we had hitstun.

I've actually seen some recent lists in the official tier list discussion thread put Ganon below Falcon, but the SBR weekly thread on Ganon (their synopsis, mostly) leads me to believe Falcon will be at the bottom.

Sorry for double post, but I forgot I wanted to reply to this. Couldn't you just as well say that we don't need hitstun if we had priority, since we'd have a lot less trouble getting in hits and not need combos?

I put a lot of stock in mindgames, so I think Ganon is above us because of his killing power, despite him having more trouble getting to certain oppoenents.

 

[Red Alloy]

Sorry for double post, but I forgot I wanted to reply to this. Couldn't you just as well say that we don't need hitstun if we had priority, since we'd have a lot less trouble getting in hits and not need combos?

I put a lot of stock in mindgames, so I think Ganon is above us because of his killing power, despite him having more trouble getting to certain oppoenents.

I suppose it could go either way, yeah.

 

[Noodlehead]

lol I never got the whole "falcon owns squirtle" thing....

short characters **** me, seriously. lol. And it's not like squirtle's a bad character, he's quick with good aerials. And he's short which kicks falcon's ***.....

and he's short......
and.

short...lol

thier almost neutral,if you have ever played a good pt,then youll see that sqirtle is the easiest.captain falcon owns sqirtle's sideb,you can hit it and make it reverse

 

[Griffard]

I like Falcon, but Ganondorf has many many more tools for damage racking quickly and killing. C. Falcon's gimps and kills are either hard to sweetspot, easily airdodged (side b), or just suck. He certainly is quick though!

 

[Gindler]

Though Jigglypuff's smashes and sing are laggy, her smashes are mediocre at best, and she's light, she has great air mobility, pound, lagless aerials, multiple jumps, a great recovery, the fastest air speed in the game, and drillrest.

Captain Falcon has no priority, no approach, no reliable kill move, and a mediocre recovery... Does he really have anything going for him? Uh... Nothing.

Actually...Yoshi has the fastest air speed in the game (just clearing that up). Jigglypuff is just worlds better at air mobility (moving in and out, but not quite the fastest). Drill rest does pwn too. Pound has insane priority too, I've had jiggz people pound through eggs (eggs are a fairly high priority projectile). and yeah lagless aerials, i can't see why she's "bottom tier" at all.

But yeah, like jiggz I think Falcon took a huge beating from the lowered hit stun. Him and jiggz are basically unchanged (well jiggs epic rest nerf), but not Falcon can't land a knee every time because they get to air dodge, and I just loved seeing triple knees back in melee days. Or knee to Falcon Punch was tooo good.

 

[bombr]

Actually...Yoshi has the fastest air speed in the game (just clearing that up).

Woops. My mistake.

But yeah, like jiggz I think Falcon took a huge beating from the lowered hit stun. Him and jiggz are basically unchanged (well jiggs epic rest nerf), but not Falcon can't land a knee every time because they get to air dodge, and I just loved seeing triple knees back in melee days. Or knee to Falcon Punch was tooo good.

It's really just terrible to see them almost unchanged, and then suck the big one.

 

[Tenki]

thier almost neutral,if you have ever played a good pt,then youll see that sqirtle is the easiest.captain falcon owns sqirtle's sideb,you can hit it and make it reverse

But, I never see PT users use Squirtle's side-B.

try Fearmy ?_?; I don't have wifi anymore, but I'm pretty sure you can run into Fearmy's PT on AiB.

Anyway, D-tilt, U-tilt, down-tilted F-tilt/fsmash all hit grounded squirtle.

Besides, most Squirtles are in the air shorthopping, so you don't really have to worry about height lol.

 

[Noodlehead]

But, I never see PT users use Squirtle's side-B.

try Fearmy ?_?; I don't have wifi anymore, but I'm pretty sure you can run into Fearmy's PT on AiB.

Anyway, D-tilt, U-tilt, down-tilted F-tilt/fsmash all hit grounded squirtle.

Besides, most Squirtles are in the air shorthopping, so you don't really have to worry about height lol.

hmm.i think i seen him a couple times.i'll try playing him later

 

[Rigor Mortis]

Using jiggly puff I eat alot of captain falcons for breakfast. Captian falcon cant usuallly touch my jjigs but ieven if he does jigglly puff got multiple jumps and would pwn him to high hell


My god that feels so wrong saying considering Capn Falcon is my main

 

[SmashBrother2008]

I always see Jigglypuff, Samus, Yoshi, and Ganondorf above him.

Jigglypuff got worst in Brawl due to air dodges and she's the lightest. Samus doesn't have many KO moves and can barely deal damage. Yoshi has the slow shield, and not a true triple jump. And Ganondorf, I might understand it due to his power, but isn't speed usually better?

Meh. But the differences are only marginal. I respect Sakurai's balancing skills again now. Melee was a fox, marth, shiek and counter-pick fest.

 

[bobson]

Meh. But the differences are only marginal. I respect Sakurai's balancing skills again now. Melee was a fox, marth, shiek and counter-pick fest.

Yeah, now the excess is cut out and everyone just goes for Metaknight.

 

[Psychoace]

But, I never see PT users use Squirtle's side-B.

try Fearmy ?_?; I don't have wifi anymore, but I'm pretty sure you can run into Fearmy's PT on AiB.

Anyway, D-tilt, U-tilt, down-tilted F-tilt/fsmash all hit grounded squirtle.

Besides, most Squirtles are in the air shorthopping, so you don't really have to worry about height lol.

I see it used for a dash dancing/approach type maneuver sometimes.

Falcon punches squirtle's < b

 

[SmashGod17]

Though Jigglypuff's smashes and sing are laggy, her smashes are mediocre at best, and she's light, she has great air mobility, pound, lagless aerials, multiple jumps, a great recovery, the fastest air speed in the game, and drillrest.

Captain Falcon has no priority, no approach, no reliable kill move, and a mediocre recovery... Does he really have anything going for him? Uh... Nothing.

I think you're being a little too harsh. To be honest, I think Falcon is a great character. I'm good with him, a lot of people are good with him, he's just not bad. I find Side B, F-Air, U-Tilt, D-Air to be a great combo for racking up damage and killing. That's just my opinion on the subject, though.