How important is Wdash?

[StevenM]

I am guessing you are against wavedash because it is unfair or do you feel I hurt people's "feelings" when I use the term used by Sirlin?

Actually, I only said Tournytard because you called casual players "scrubs". Which makes you look like an elitist goon by proxy.

Besides, you know what side I'm on - the side in the middle of the argument that keeps screaming "IT'S A ****ING 6-YEAR-OLD PARTY GAME FOR KIDS, GUYS, LIGHTEN UP!"

 

[NES n00b]

Actually, I only said Tournytard because you called casual players "scrubs". Which makes you look like an elitist goon by proxy.

Besides, you know what side I'm on - the side in the middle of the argument that keeps screaming "IT'S A ****ING 6-YEAR-OLD PARTY GAME FOR KIDS, GUYS, LIGHTEN UP!"

Ok to the last thing.

First thing, I didn't say casual. If I wanted to talk about casuals, I would call them casuals.

I call them like they are. Scrubs can be casuals or competative tourney goers. Casuals can be scrubs. They are mutually exclusive. It is true that casuals have a higher chance of being scrubs but that is a different arugement. When I say scrubs, I mean scrubs.

Edit: LOL to thing below. This game is played by mostly teenagers.

 

[Red Exodus]

I didn't know there were 6 year old teenagers around, I think you made a discovery.

 

[Card]

Regardless of whether it's in or out (Let's simplify this discussion by avoiding that question altogether), wavedashing is a combination of a useful technique and a status symbol.

Though I'm in the pro-wavedash crowd, it has very little to do with the capacity of Smash as a competitive game. Of couse, if they took out several advanced techniques without adding new ones, it would kill competition, but overall, wavedash is simply a useful technique.

Somehow, though, wavedashing became a status symbol. A person's ability to wavedash was used to define his skill level, and as a result, people on both sides of the fence decided that competitive play revolved around wavedashing. Non-wavedashers blamed it for their losses against competitive players who were simply a lot better than them, while competitive players decided that wavedashing was the determining factor on whether Brawl would be good.

Quoted for Truth;

You guys should read Takalth's post again. He's hit the nail right on the head.

 

[yoshi_fan]

Actually, I only said Tournytard because you called casual players "scrubs". Which makes you look like an elitist goon by proxy.

Besides, you know what side I'm on - the side in the middle of the argument that keeps screaming "IT'S A ****ING 6-YEAR-OLD PARTY GAME FOR KIDS, GUYS, LIGHTEN UP!"

XDDDD you win this page.

I have just come to another thing: Do people are "afraid" of changing from melee to brawl?

It's related to this topic, some people say Smash (note i say smash in general) will suck without Wdashing. Another arguments i have seen around there is the Smashball=item thing, brawl will be just like melee (this doesn't here, but in the spanish forum i was talking about, and i got flamed for saying that brawl WASN'T GONNA BE LIKE MELEE and i got flamed ) and a LOT of other things i had read in a LOT of forums.

I have lived the change from 64 to melee (where my beloved kirby got nerfed to oblivion)but i haven't had this nonsense of "fearing" aq change.

And when you think, is lot related with the topic. Aniways... i can't still see what is SO important about Wdash in melee, I use it is a good techinique but thats all and i'm wondering why some people say these thing, but the question i have made : Do people are "afraid" of changing from melee to brawl? this is ...

Sorry for my absolutely bad english... i'm good understanding and writing it... but i fail when i have to talk it or hear it

 

[Takeshi245]

Well, wavedashing helps with spacing and strategy. For example, you may want to mindgame someone into making a critical mistake by wavedashing backwards from their laggy attack, wavedashing towards them, and punish them from there. Wavedashing is more important to certain characters with low traction like Luigi as it helps him move faster (still doesn't make him broken). That's it for me.

 

[xfootdoctor]

ehh wavedashing is alright
I use it in my games but I can live without....although I perfer it still be in
but there still might be chance that it is still in?
but not waving down....since momentum or whatever it is
like when coming down after a jump i think you might be able to wd

it's good for spacing and attacking

 

[veil222]

I'm kind for mechanics that remove the need for WD'ing, there are plenty of things that could drag a bit of the focus away from knowing techs and instead knowing the character. That's one thing I didn't like in melee, if you know the techs you can sit down in one night and learn a character around them, character pick from there is just counterpick/favorites. I really hope it will take alot more to know a character and control them well, that would make me feel more attached to one character/playstyle than another.

 

[UsernameLink]

New game, new rules. Learn to evolve, or be the extinct crature who didnt adapt to there enviroment.

All that no wavedashing means is you have to learn new ways to fight and survive.

Its important in Melee, because if you cant do it, your opponent (who knows how to do it) will have the advantage. In Brawl, the lack of it means nothing, because neither you or your opponent can use it

 

[yoshi_fan]

ehh wavedashing is alright
I use it in my games but I can live without....although I perfer it still be in
but there still might be chance that it is still in?
but not waving down....since momentum or whatever it is
like when coming down after a jump i think you might be able to wd

it's good for spacing and attacking

Yeah i know is good for spacing and atacking, and it's pretty useful... but not that ALL useful. Hope it's still in, but if it isn't, i won't be too sad... i will be more like "meh..." because i love playing smash 64 also (where i can't Wdash) and is not a big problem.

Aniway if we have wavesliding it will be good, at least

 

[fr0st2k]

^yoshi fan. .. purely out of boredom, i felt like rewritting your last post. If you compare the two, youll be able to gain a better understanding of what words to use in different sentences, and it might help you get better at English (im assuming its not your first language).

I have thought of anothing thing: Are people "afraid" of changing from melee to brawl?

It's related to this topic; some people say Smash (note, I meant "smash" in general) will suck without Wdashing. Another arguement I have seen around here is that the Smashball=item thing. Brawl will be just like melee (I wasnt talking about it here, but in the spanish forums, where i got flamed for saying that bralw WASN'T GONNA BE LIKE MELEE ) and a LOT of other things i had read in a LOT of forums.

I have ?"survived"? the change from 64 tp melee (where my beloved kirby got nerfed to oblivion) but i haven't had to worry about the next change.

And when you think about it, a lot of this is related with the topic. Anyways...i can't see what is So important about Wdashing in melee. I use it as a good technique, but thats all, and i'm wondering why some people say the things they do. But, the question I have asked is; Are people "afraid" of changing from melee to brawl?" this is crazy(or something .. lol)

----------------

and, to answer your question. YES! people are "afraid," as I stated in my previous post. People do not want to have to relearn a whole new game. They want to pick up brawl and be just as good as they were in melee. To a certain respect, that wil lbe true. Those good at Melee, will pick up brawl faster than others, simply because the concept is the same. However, The huge gap that exists now between pros and noobs will be much smaller.

This will dissapate after time, and pros will emerge and learn their own tricks. The same thing that happened in melee. People. especially the people on this board, are SOOOOOO BAD, at moving on. They just dont want to. They feel comfortable in the position they are now, and yes, as you said it, are "afraid" to move from Melee to Brawl.

 

[SmashChu]

Wavedashing is used for mindgames, spacing, and increased options/versatility that the characters weren't designed to have.

I think that comment seals the deal.

Let's face it, wavedashing was one of the two big exploits in competitive smash (the other being L-cancelling). This will make the gap between competitive players and casual players, but the better player will still win. It should also be a lot more fun for everyone as you don't get discouraged by getting wavedashed and killed.

If L-cancelling is removed, expect the gap between players to be small. It will also be much better to be good at smash as it will be easier to learn what to do.

Also, with short hops, there is still hope for the community. It will progress, but be much different, and a lot easier to enter.

 

[red stone]

a ledge wavedash was extremely useful for me. wavedashing here and there was great for spacing and speed.

why they would get rid of it is beyond me. they were well aware that the competitive scene used WD a lot. sure the tourney scene may account for 1% of the total population. however, we are the leading activists. we are what people shoot for. we give smash a good name. without tis scene, smash is no better than power stone or mario party.

 

[NES n00b]

I think that comment seals the deal.

Let's face it, wavedashing was one of the two big exploits in competitive smash (the other being L-cancelling). This will make the gap between competitive players and casual players, but the better player will still win. It should also be a lot more fun for everyone as you don't get discouraged by getting wavedashed and killed.

If L-cancelling is removed, expect the gap between players to be small. It will also be much better to be good at smash as it will be easier to learn what to do.

Also, with short hops, there is still hope for the community. It will progress, but be much different, and a lot easier to enter.

Wut? L cancelling was intended. Wavedashing is an exploit. Short hop was intended but it is an exploit to know you can use the short part of a jump.

It will be narrower not "small" if all of this goes. Or you can try to play me in Brawl to see how well you do. I am not that great by tourny standards but I am pretty sure that the gap will still be pretty large (at least you will feel that way XD XD= joke btw) between the old advance tech users and non ones.

Edit: Power Stone is awesome. It is a better party game than Smash or Mario Party IMO lol. Smash is my number 1 because of the chance for the competative scene.

 

[red stone]

Wut? L cancelling was intended. Wavedashing is an exploit. Short hop was intended but it is an exploit to know you can use the short part of a jump.

It will be narrower not "small" if all of this goes. Or you can try to play me in Brawl to see how well you do. I am not that great by tourny standards but I am pretty sure that the gap will still be pretty large (at least you will feel that way XD XD= joke btw) between the old advance tech users and non ones.

Edit: Power Stone is awesome. It is a better party game than Smash or Mario Party IMO lol. Smash is my number 1 because of the chance for the competative scene.

exactly! smash is only better than power stone because of its comp. scene

 

[Dark Sonic]

I actually think that they should add more advance techs in Brawl. I don't mean more muscle memory techs like L-canceling (though that should definately stay), but I mean things like this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHBCH3HaPXI

Bounce teching would certainly be fun to implement and that instant wake up is nice. I want to see stuff like that in smash. I want Brawl to be better than melee, and taking out advance techs is a step backwards. Sure, wavedashing isn't that important, but it's still usefull and gives us more options to think about. It's something that competative players like because more options makes the game more fun for us. Why would you want to close the gap between casual and competative smash anyway? Competative players take the game to it's limits and actually compete against each other and play to win. If a casual player really wants to be a competative one, then he should just practice rather than try to take options away from the competative player. The casual player doesn't deserve to beat a competative one because he doesn't work to actually get good at the game. Advance techs are just a stepping stone that shows you actually plan on getting better at this game. You immediately get more available options and I think you deserve it because you actually took the time to explore the game and try to improve. It's kind of like an initiation into the mindset of competative playing.

 

[yoshj77]

I agree with Sonic Wave; it would be great if they added new techs on top of what is in melee. I think the mind games and advanced techs were a central part of melee, part of what made it so great.

 

[Vijin]

Tournytard.



The wavedashing can depend on any number of issues, concerning how skilled the debaters are at playing a childrens' fighting game, how skilled they are at executing an 'exploitation' or how large said 'exploitation' is, said debaters' knowledge on the 'advanced techniques' used to turn a childrens' fighting game into serious business, whether the debaters need to abuse this system in order to win at all, or whatever.

.

Says the guy posting on a Smash brothers forum.

 

[OATH]

wd is not nearly important as L-cancel and people on this board doesn't seem to realize that.

 

[Vijin]

wd is not nearly important as L-cancel and people on this board doesn't seem to realize that.

Well in some ways it is. The ability to wave-dash out of the way of a move and using it for mind games, it's not THAT big of a deal in that sense. On the other hand though, you can see how it can be important, like for fox's combos and what not. Or the fact that it allows Luigi to move at a much faster speed than his normal run speed.

 

[OATH]

Well in some ways it is. The ability to wave-dash out of the way of a move and using it for mind games, it's not THAT big of a deal in that sense. On the other hand though, you can see how it can be important, like for fox's combos and what not. Or the fact that it allows Luigi to move at a much faster speed than his normal run speed.

yes thats true,but with out L-cancel you couldn't be able to connect any decent combos and advance play would suck bad..WD 4 brawl!!1!!!

 

[BentoBox]

I actually think that they should add more advance techs in Brawl. I don't mean more muscle memory techs like L-canceling (though that should definately stay), but I mean things like this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHBCH3HaPXI

Bounce teching would certainly be fun to implement and that instant wake up is nice. I want to see stuff like that in smash. I want Brawl to be better than melee, and taking out advance techs is a step backwards. Sure, wavedashing isn't that important, but it's still usefull and gives us more options to think about. It's something that competative players like because more options makes the game more fun for us. Why would you want to close the gap between casual and competative smash anyway? Competative players take the game to it's limits and actually compete against each other and play to win. If a casual player really wants to be a competative one, then he should just practice rather than try to take options away from the competative player. The casual player doesn't deserve to beat a competative one because he doesn't work to actually get good at the game. Advance techs are just a stepping stone that shows you actually plan on getting better at this game. You immediately get more available options and I think you deserve it because you actually took the time to explore the game and try to improve. It's kind of like an initiation into the mindset of competative playing.

Quit blaming the casuals for whatever happens to brawl. They're not the ones designing the game, Sakurai is. Sakurai decided to remove WD as we know it, casuals simply support his views, they didn't force their own upon him. Now why Sak did such a thing is totally open to speculation, which leads to myriads of threads where "casuals" and "pros" flame eachother to no end.

 

[Mama]

I wish people (mostly scrubs I guess) would get it through their heads that wave dashing is not everything.

Will the gap between scrubs/casuals and pros be small now that Wave dashing is possibly out? (not going to consider it out till I see proof) no it wont. Its not about the technical play that makes players good. I feel like a broken record because I have to repeat that in a lot of the threads nowadays...

Pro smashers are good because they pursue their goals and try to get better and wont stop. Scrubs stay scrubs because they make excuses for not pursuing greatness and instead call techniques meant to be in the game (L-canceling has been in since Smash64 look it up) glitches or blaming wave dashing which is not as glorious as they make it seem.

People just need to quit the johns and get better. and enough of these threads please, I'm getting a head ache over here. I'm officially done posting in threads like this.

 

[NES n00b]

I wish people (mostly scrubs I guess) would get it through their heads that wave dashing is not everything.

Will the gap between scrubs/casuals and pros be small now that Wave dashing is possibly out? (not going to consider it out till I see proof) no it wont. Its not about the technical play that makes players good. I feel like a broken record because I have to repeat that in a lot of the threads nowadays...

Pro smashers are good because they pursue their goals and try to get better and wont stop. Scrubs stay scrubs because they make excuses for not pursuing greatness and instead call techniques meant to be in the game (L-canceling has been in since Smash64 look it up) glitches or blaming wave dashing which is not as glorious as they make it seem.

People just need to quit the johns and get better. and enough of these threads please, I'm getting a head ache over here. I'm officially done posting in threads like this.

Stop using logic and precedent for your points.

My mom told me wavedash is important that is why. Case closed.

 

[Mama]

Stop using logic and precedent for your points.

My mom told me wavedash is important that is why. Case closed.

Yes sir *cries*

 

[Foxtorres]

Stop using logic and precedent for your points.

My mom told me wavedash is important that is why. Case closed.

yeah? Sakurai CALLED me and told me everyone whos ranting about this is a nub :D lol

 

[NES n00b]

Yes sir *cries*

Awww, now I feel bad and stuff.

yeah? Sakurai CALLED me and told me everyone whos ranting about this is a nub :D lol

Proof or it didn't happen. . . . no wait, it is so unlikely a story that it must be true. I believe the posters on the internet they wouldn't lie!!!!!

 

[Mama]

Awww, now I feel bad and stuff.



Proof or it didn't happen. . . . no wait, it is so unlikely a story that it must be true. I believe the posters on the internet they wouldn't lie!!!!!

Lol. I'd use that as an excuse to take a cheap shot at the DigiPen thread but I'm too tired.

 

[Mic_128]

Wavedashing isn't important in Melee. It helps a lot, sure, but it's nothing that you can't live without.