greenluigiman2
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Nov 21, 2007
- Messages
- 809
I didn't say that.What, you don't like games with high skill ceilings?
I
Melee's speed is as fast as a Smash game needs to go up to.
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I didn't say that.What, you don't like games with high skill ceilings?
You don't like games with higher skill ceilings than Melee?I didn't say that.
I'd because he said he wanted the gameplay faster than Melee...
Melee's speed is as fast as a Smash game needs to go up to.
Do you have dyslexia?You don't like games with higher skill ceilings than Melee?
I said that too be funny manI didn't say that.
I'd because he said he wanted the gameplay faster than Melee...
Melee's speed is as fast as a Smash game needs to go up to.
You think Melee's speed is as fast as Smash should be, this implies you would not like a game faster than Melee.Do you have dyslexia?
Are you so selfish that you would enjoy smash 4 if it were restricted to your preferences.If the game becomes as hardcore or more hardcore than Melee, it'd encourage me to NOT buy it.
agreed lets all stop with the old debate and move onto the new oneI shall predict this will become a Brawl vs Melee thread. If so, I shall quote my own post later and lol at everyone.
Seriously, when will this community EVER move on?
Smash 64 is a great game
Melee is a great game
Brawl is a great game
They all have something different. They may not be for you personally, but they all offer an experience people can enjoy that is suited for their taste, be grateful we have the options and not every single game is the same.
We already have the beginnings of Wii U vs 3DS starting, why must we continue this insanely old debate? It's time to MOVE ON.
The core would have to be tougher to chew through than a jawbreaker.
In all seriousness, I won't be able to resist the temptation of Megaman's unique fighting style.
I'll come crawling back to Project M on all fours if the online is total garbage in the wii u game.
At the very least, we don't necessarily need to have Smash 4 be like Melee. It can easily be just as competitive and such as Melee, but in a different and probably much more balanced way.I used to be a brawl die-hard, wouldn't play melee. When I DID play it, I would always lose, but I was young and never got the concept for L-Cancelling and other melee techs. When I was introduced to brawl in my early teen years, it was so easy to follow. I got compliments on how I was "good" at a young age and was finally able to compete with people. That got to my head.
Four years of that, and Project M came along. It really opened my eyes to what a good smash looks like. I've only been playing Project M for 3 months and I swear by it now..it's just a lot more fun. It even converted me to Melee, I CAN ACTUALLY PLAY MELEE NOW.
But seriously, once you learn to Wavedash, L-Cancel and bust out combos, flying all over the screen with your dashes and cancels, you'll swear that it's a better game.
I tried playing Brawl the other day and it....it was really bad. Only took a couple weeks to change my mind from 4 YEARS.
As for the topic, I know we're not getting another melee, (that actually gets me really sad) but so far from the videos, it's looking decent. Just looks like a faster brawl to me though, and now that I look back, brawl needs a lot more than a speed change.
At the very least, we don't necessarily need to have Smash 4 be like Melee. It can easily be just as competitive and such as Melee, but in a different and probably much more balanced way.
If you ask me, had Melee been as balanced as, say, Guilty Gear, I don't think the game's input speed would be as high, but the number of mains for characters would even out.
Well, I'm talking more than the number of viable characters. Things like finally doing something about chain grabs (or perhaps nothing for you purists), not making the shine or rest a one frame attack, removing the L-Canceling requirement and reducing landing recovery all together (oh, did I open a can of worms?), making wavedashing a more "deliberate" input than a physics exploitation, etc.What do you mean by "balanced"? Like, number of viable characters? Because that's completely unrelated to a game's competitive merits.
This wouldn't be true in ggx or marvel? Or is it okay for those games to put an emphasis on execution?By reducing the need for some of these inputs, the game might not be seen as so hardcore from an execution standpoint, but the strategy, which is the heart and soul of competitive play, would remain intact mostly. This is my opinion though.
Well, I'm talking more than the number of viable characters. Things like finally doing something about chain grabs (or perhaps nothing for you purists), not making the shine or rest a one frame attack, removing the L-Canceling requirement and reducing landing recovery all together (oh, did I open a can of worms?), making wavedashing a more "deliberate" input than a physics exploitation, etc.
By reducing the need for some of these inputs, the game might not be seen as so hardcore from an execution standpoint, but the strategy, which is the heart and soul of competitive play, would remain intact mostly. This is my opinion though.
YOU CAN PLAY MELEE ONLINE WITH DOLPHIN?!Dolphin Melee online (1 frame of lag minimum) > Brawl/Project M online (6 frames minimum, usually way more)
Lag caused me to double postDolphin Melee online (1 frame of lag minimum) > Brawl/Project M online (6 frames minimum, usually way more)
NoYou think Melee's speed is as fast as Smash should be, this implies you would not like a game faster than Melee.
Speed usually always translates to higher skill ceiling, therefore you would not like a Smash game with a higher skill ceiling than Melee. Is this correct?
More speed makes an execution element more difficult, as well as necessitating faster decision making and comprehension and analysis of what's going on on the screen, therefore it takes more skill.
Speed does make execution more difficult, I'm not denying that. But your posts imply that speed is the only thing that gives a game a higher skill ceiling. If I wanted a game that had a lot more techniques than Melee, but not more speed, that game would have a higher skill ceiling would it not? Therefore. Yes, I do want a game with a higher skill ceiling than Melee. Your argument is over. A winner is me.More speed makes an execution element more difficult, as well as necessitating faster decision making and comprehension and analysis of what's going on on the screen, therefore it takes more skill.
If the techniques had a large frame to be executed then technically they wouldn't make the skill ceiling raise. Shortening the frame space to execute things make it harder (speed). If I could Shoryuken with a 60 frames for inputs still go through, then, no you're wrong.Speed does make execution more difficult, I'm not denying that. But your posts imply that speed is the only thing that gives a game a higher skill ceiling. If I wanted a game that had a lot more techniques than Melee, but not more speed, that game would have a higher skill ceiling would it not? Therefore. Yes, I do want a game with a higher skill ceiling than Melee. Your argument is over. A winner is me.
My post implies no such thing, you're projecting that assumption onto me, you are in effect deluding yourself and strawmanning.Speed does make execution more difficult, I'm not denying that. But your posts imply that speed is the only thing that gives a game a higher skill ceiling. If I wanted a game that had a lot more techniques than Melee, but not more speed, that game would have a higher skill ceiling would it not? Therefore. Yes, I do want a game with a higher skill ceiling than Melee. Your argument is over. A winner is me.
Actually, you could argue that having a large input window actually makes the game harder because you have to commit earlier than expected and your inputs have to be crisp. It's a stupid thing though.If the techniques had a large frame to be executed then technically they wouldn't make the skill ceiling raise. Shortening the frame space to execute things make it harder (speed). If I could Shoryuken with a 60 frames for inputs still go through, then, no you're wrong.
Drop the holier than thou attitude while you are at it.
Of course you know I don'tActually, you could argue that having a large input window actually makes the game harder because you have to commit earlier than expected and your inputs have to be crisp. It's a stupid thing though.
Speed does play a role in skill, yes, but it's only a factor. If speed was THE key determinate in skill (and I know you don't think it is), then Hungry Hungry Hippos has more skill than Chess.
If the techniques had a large frame to be executed then technically they wouldn't make the skill ceiling raise. Shortening the frame space to execute things make it harder (speed). If I could Shoryuken with a 60 frames for inputs still go through, then, no you're wrong.
Drop the holier than thou attitude while you are at it.
Yes it does. I said I don't want a game that's faster than Melee. And you made that out to mean that I didn't want a game with a higher skill ceiling than Melee. Even after the many times where I said "no" you still persisted with that same notion:My post implies no such thing
Nope. I'm just making the point that techniques don't always raise the skill ceiling if they are useless. I would love to have both versatile and situational techniques. It's just that Brawl lacked situational techs. Like I mentioned before, there were ton of things you could do but literally did nothing for your gameplay. Doop walking (not sure if that was the right name or not) was probably one of the worst things ever.So I'm a little lost here. I'm assuming you're wanting no more than a 5 frame buffer, am I right? You'd also like it if we only had a handful of versatile techniques instead of a bunch of situational ones?
You are jokes. Question =/= implication. I wasn't assuming, which is why I asked, no it wasn't rhetorical, it was so I could find out if you didn't like games with a higher skill ceiling. If you think you know my brain better than I do, you're mistaken sir. :3Yes it does. I said I don't want a game that's faster than Melee. And you made that out to mean that I didn't want a game with a higher skill ceiling than Melee. Even after the many times where I said "no" you still persisted with that same notion:
Me: "Melee's speed is as fast as a Smash game needs to go up to."
You: "So you don't like games with higher skill ceilings than Melee?"
Whatever dude. Let's let it go.You are jokes. Question =/= implication. I wasn't assuming, which is why I asked, no it wasn't rhetorical, it was so I could find out if you didn't like games with a higher skill ceiling. If you think you know my brain better than I do, you're mistaken sir. :3
Edit: Gosh, why ya gotta be so confrontational about everything?![]()
As someone that all but moved on to traditional fighters after seeing how bad Brawl turned out compared to previous games in the series, I couldn't agree more. Just give me gameplay that is similar to 64/Melee at a high level without the execution barriers and I'll be happy.As someone who greatly prefers Melee/Project M gameplay over Brawls...
I just want faster gameplay with more hitstun, faster falling speeds, AUTO L-Cancelling for easier followups, and a balanced roster. That's literally it.
Anyone who's expecting/hoping for Smash 4 to be as complex as Melee might as well just save money not even buy the game.