How fast would matches be if Vectoring wasn't in Smash 4 and blastzones weren't huge?

[RanserSSF4]

As much as I like Smash 4, my two biggest problems with the game is Vectoring and the huge blastzones. These two aspects makes most matches last for a long time, regardless if you're playing rushdown or camping.

True, the game is in fact faster than Brawl and aggressive play is more rewarding than before, but these two problems makes most matches require to be 2 stock 6 minutes. To be fair though, Vectoring wouldn't be a huge problem if it weren't for the huge blastzones to begin with.

Do any of you guys think the matches would be much faster if Vectoring wasn't in the game and the Blastzones were small (Lets say around Melee's)? To me, definitly YES!

Again, I still like Smash 4 a lot and love it more than Brawl, and I'm adapting to it, but I do hope vectoring and the big blastzones get fixed!

 

[Billcarlosbills]

Faster, yes; better, not necessarily.

 

[RanserSSF4]

Faster, yes; better, not necessarily.

Agreed. I wouldn't mind Vectoring at all if it weren't for the huge blastzones. Besides, Vectoring is pretty much just DI.

 

[T0MMY]

True, the game is in fact faster than Brawl and aggressive play is more rewarding than before, but these two problems makes most matches require to be 2 stock 6 minutes.

I wouldn't say it makes it require to be 2 stock 6 minutes. That would be in the realm of personal opinion and is just subjective.
2 stock 5 minutes is fine with me because I learned to Stage Guard rather than Edge Guard and matches don't take much longer than 2 minutes ;^]

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Faster? Well sure I agree but is it needed?

Timeouts aren't really a problem so while it would, it's not really a main issue.

 

[san.]

You'd be able to get to kill percents with just a few grabs for many characters, then kill from the last one.

 

[Shaya]

Your opinion on vectoring is based off misunderstanding.

Vectoring actually is seemingly less effective than DI was in previous games.
What you're getting upset about, is that staple Melee technique known as crouch cancelling.

 

[ChronoPenguin]

Unnecessarily short?
Mii Brawler is killing half the cast ~100% ignoring his 0% kill.
Bowser & Ganon do likewise.
Shulk can manage the same feat.
Pit has strong gimp/kill confirm due to his strong recovery.
Etc. A lot of people die around 100% already to just mean what 90/80% kills?
That's too fast.

 

[RanserSSF4]

i'm not trying to complain or anything, i'm just giving out my opinion of these problems i have with smash 4. other than that, i love the game and i'm still glad it's still faster than brawl

 

[Doval]

I'm not convinced Vectoring is any more effective than DI except against vertical attacks. From my testing vectoring a vertical attack downwards reduces launch speed by around 9% while in older games you could shift the angle approximately 18 degrees to the side (according to SSBwiki) which amounts to about a 5% reduction in vertical launch speed. Those small differences can have a noticeable impact on kill %s when you factor in gravity.

However that's neglible when you factor in that not all kills are vertical, some characters can score early kills with off-stage play, air dodging is more punishable, there's more shield damage and windbox attacks for edgeguarding, and most importantly you can't get out of hitstun early like in Brawl.

In my opinion the main difference is that now you can't influence the angle of vertical attacks significantly so you can't force the opponent to hard read your DI after up throws/tilts/smashes. On the other hand you can vary the distance you're sent and therefore the timing. I'd argue that's easier to act on though.

Obviously reducing blast zone size will lead to earlier kills so I'm not sure why that's part of the question.

 

[cardboardowl]

I don't find it to be a problem at all

I've timed out once and i play 3 stock 8 minutes 99% of the time.

 

[LunarWingCloud]

I like Vectoring as it is, but yeah maybe the blast zones could've been trimmed just a tad. I dunno, I notice my kills getting really ridiculously high percents like 160-190 range.

Still I'm not entirely against how the game is playing now and I've grown to like it.

 

[RanserSSF4]

I like Vectoring as it is, but yeah maybe the blast zones could've been trimmed just a tad. I dunno, I notice my kills getting really ridiculously high percents like 160-190 range.

Still I'm not entirely against how the game is playing now and I've grown to like it.

same here. i definitly wouldn't mind vectoring too much, but the blastzones makes it feel like a problem to me!

 

[OnettGirl]

Is vectoring really all that different from DI on a basic level of influencing your direction back to the stage? I don't really see too much of a difference between the two honestly. [Personally I like vectoring better, it just...makes more sense in my brain to hold towards the stage, that's kinda where I wana get back to so i'm going to want to move myself back there instead of at a weird angle.]

As for the blast zones, again, I kinda like it the way it is right now. We'll see if that changes with the Wii U version but really I don't think matches run too long. At least not when their two stock. If it were three stock then it might get a little long for my taste. But two stock is actually pretty nice despite what other people may think.

It would be faster, yeah, but it's really not needed to be honest.

 

[Mettie7]

I don't know if anyone noticed, but the review copies of the Wii U version have arrived for many people and just based off of the videos the blastzones are closer than in the 3DS one for sure. It's comparable to Brawl's or Melee's blastzones, maybe even smaller. GameXplain has some matches showing the new stages and when you watch the KOs they definitely seem a lot closer

 

[Ganemdar]

I don't know if anyone noticed, but the review copies of the Wii U version have arrived for many people and just based off of the videos the blastzones are closer than in the 3DS one for sure. It's comparable to Brawl's or Melee's blastzones, maybe even smaller. GameXplain has some matches showing the new stages and when you watch the KOs they definitely seem a lot closer

I've been hearing this as well although can't tell from the videos. Although there is indeed confirmation that changes have been made to the Wii U version (such as the bowsercide leading to a double ko when used on the last stock). I've also heard that they fixed some of the glitches like wario's weird vectoring behavior. Maybe they listened to player feed back and adjusted the blast zones as well.

 

[Balgorxz]

Wii U version is running on a later version than we are currently playing on the 3DS it's bound to have changes.

 

[Maki]

i'm not trying to complain or anything, i'm just giving out my opinion of these problems i have with smash 4. other than that, i love the game and i'm still glad it's still faster than brawl

I always wonder why people say this.

Between the huge blast zones, high knockback on every hit you do, complete lack of tech (rip short hop lasers, dacus, etc), and no ledge hog, I feel like SSB4 matches takes forever compared to Brawl (at least without Meta Knight).

It's probably due to racking up damage and not feeling any real sense of progress (KOs).

 

[T0MMY]

Your opinion on vectoring is based off misunderstanding.

Vectoring actually is seemingly less effective than DI was in previous games.
What you're getting upset about, is that staple Melee technique known as crouch cancelling.

Where did you get this information?
I've played Melee competitively since about '05 and CC'ing functions/performs/feels nothing like "vectoring" mechanics.
My understanding is that CC'ing negates KB by making your character more "heavy", thus you can perform counter attacks (but at higher damage you will be knocked off your feet, even with an upward strike you'll end up with a hard knockdown).
Vectoring, on the other hand, seems kind of like a misnomer, in that it refers to magnitude only and not direction (a vector is both a direction and the magnitude). So with a vertical trajectory you will have a reduced KB when holding down like with CCing, but does not have the same functionality (the weighty counter attacks and hard knockdowns as is characteristic with CC'ing).
Ultimately what we have here is a little more control of our usual DI in that we can push into the attack better than before (I still did this in previous games due to SDI being an important part of surviving knockback when playing at a high level of gameplay).
Maybe at a lower level of gameplay some players can start to get a feel for game mechanics in both SSBM and SSB4 by just holding "down" regardless of any other options available and benefit from the exact same input (albeit in differing fashions), but they seem to me to be completely different mechanics and should not be mixed up to gain more benefit in competitions.

 

[Shaya]

I think crouch cancelling hasn't been fully explored this game thus far, it's much closer to smash64's version, if not virtually smash64's version.
You can get follow ups from crouch cancelling hits, but it definitely isn't producing the same results as Melee (if crouch cancel grab was a thing again!_!)

But 'vectoring' isn't crouch cancelling, and vectoring doesn't really effect kill percentage by as much as some assume.

 

[Deleted member 245254]

I think crouch cancelling hasn't been fully explored this game thus far, it's much closer to smash64's version, if not virtually smash64's version.
You can get follow ups from crouch cancelling hits, but it definitely isn't producing the same results as Melee (if crouch cancel grab was a thing again!_!)

But 'vectoring' isn't crouch cancelling, and vectoring doesn't really effect kill percentage by as much as some assume.

Honestly not even "vectoring" is a reliably explored concept, people are just rolling with it despite the fact there are many instances in game of oddities that work against the initial proposal to change the name.

 

[HeavyLobster]

Well, vectoring is now mostly gone and blastzones on the Wii U version are indeed smaller, so I guess we're about to find out.

 

[Shaya]

Yeah, engine changes make some topics like this a bit redundant!

I need to do some section clean up~