Dabuz
Fraud at Smash
Olimar fight
ICS:
Marth:
Falco:
?
ICS:
Marth:
Falco:
?
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How does...
- Thread starter Dabuz
- Start date
Sync.
Smash Champion
I say super aggressive but not reckless for ICs. Lots of fair, dsmash and upsmash. Make sure your spacing is on point for shield push and be sure to **** Nana when you get your opening. You want them in the air so you can juggle with our godly upair.
You should just camp Marth and when he gets close find a way to run or to get him away because we can't really punish anything he does on shield if the Marth is at least semi-decent. This MU is reliant on your ability to mix up when you're running (rolls, dashing past) also another method to get away is to cross him up. For instance, you can upair his fair before it's out if you're good at reading jump or just fsmash or pivot grab any grounded approach. The only time Oli wins this MU is when edgeguarding Marth. He has horrible landing lag and can be punished easily for any mistakes he makes getting back on stage due to our grab, fsmash and upsmash. So if you do grab or hit Marth send him offstage
For Falco, don't get grabbed at low percent and to try and out space him. Fsmash and tippered fair are probably your best tools at spacing Falco away. Also when Falco's coming down be sure to punish his landings. His dair outprioritizes upsmash and upair(although you can space upair to outrange his dair) so be sure you are punishing landings with grabs. Edgeguarding him is fairly easy due to its predictability. Don't try to beat him, OUTSPACE him(read him too
You should just camp Marth and when he gets close find a way to run or to get him away because we can't really punish anything he does on shield if the Marth is at least semi-decent. This MU is reliant on your ability to mix up when you're running (rolls, dashing past) also another method to get away is to cross him up. For instance, you can upair his fair before it's out if you're good at reading jump or just fsmash or pivot grab any grounded approach. The only time Oli wins this MU is when edgeguarding Marth. He has horrible landing lag and can be punished easily for any mistakes he makes getting back on stage due to our grab, fsmash and upsmash. So if you do grab or hit Marth send him offstage
For Falco, don't get grabbed at low percent and to try and out space him. Fsmash and tippered fair are probably your best tools at spacing Falco away. Also when Falco's coming down be sure to punish his landings. His dair outprioritizes upsmash and upair(although you can space upair to outrange his dair) so be sure you are punishing landings with grabs. Edgeguarding him is fairly easy due to its predictability. Don't try to beat him, OUTSPACE him(read him too
Sky Pirate
The best defense is a lot of frigging healing
ICs: Fino wasn't just blowing smoke out of his *** when said that IBPG was good against them.
I'd talk to him if you want to learn how to fight them. I just try to grab the primary IC, Bthrow him, Dsmash Nana, and follow her until she's dead. ^^;
Marth: Stutterstep Fsmash (or foxtrot once, then stutterstep Fsmash). Screw with his spacing and have a lot of fun while doing it. Yup.
Falco: No clue, I haven't played a good one. PantyRaider isn't exactly a pro since he just picked him up a month ago and Texas doesn't really have Falcos. :<
The thing Rich said about baiting Phantasms, facing away from them, and shieldgrabbing when they pass through might be effective against certain Falcos, though.
You should camp him until 30+%, obviously. Not much else I can say that can be completely confirmed as a common Falco tactic.
I'd talk to him if you want to learn how to fight them. I just try to grab the primary IC, Bthrow him, Dsmash Nana, and follow her until she's dead. ^^;
Marth: Stutterstep Fsmash (or foxtrot once, then stutterstep Fsmash). Screw with his spacing and have a lot of fun while doing it. Yup.
Falco: No clue, I haven't played a good one. PantyRaider isn't exactly a pro since he just picked him up a month ago and Texas doesn't really have Falcos. :<
The thing Rich said about baiting Phantasms, facing away from them, and shieldgrabbing when they pass through might be effective against certain Falcos, though.
You should camp him until 30+%, obviously. Not much else I can say that can be completely confirmed as a common Falco tactic.
-Coco-
Smash Ace
What's IBPG?
Sync.
Smash Champion
Thanks bruh likewise
Fino and Coco PJ says hi
Also wtf is IBPG?
Fino and Coco PJ says hi
Also wtf is IBPG?
Sky Pirate
The best defense is a lot of frigging healing
I.nstant B.oost P.ivot G.rab
Sky Pirate
The best defense is a lot of frigging healing
All right, all right. Keep it on-topic.
aight, starting this **** 20 mins before I have to leave for work... don't think I'll get everything out that I want to say
IC
ICs are the only character you have to watch your nair to usmash or w/e on... since if they DI it and are able to shield the smash, we lose a stock.
marf
If the first 1/3 of his sword (aerials) is punishable with usmash, the first half is punishable with grab (aerials and grounded attacks)... but outside that range you run the risk of getting dolphin slashed.
I have a lot to say about this, but tl;dr is 100% right on the money. A big part about playing effectively against marth is abusing the fact that him throwing out an aerial is your best chance to get away from the ledge and back toward the middle to run to the other side to capm again =D.
Forget any notion of killing with any throw up blue/purple uthrow and take any opportunity you can to throw marth off stage. The amount of damage we can rack on marth here is around as much as we can get on DDD throwing pikmin. It's that good, xD
falco
For the most part, holding away and mashing the c-stick toward falco during the CG is our safest option until he's ready to spike. The % we are able to jump out of the CG is the same as the % we can fair him out of it, don't bother risking losing your second jump.
Just watch out for phantasm (note, it isn't logical he would use it in the center half of the stage) and nair. Everything else is easy to punish with usmash oos/grab. for nair you have to visually confirm him landing before inputting the upsmash... otherwise he'll hit you.
best rich brown random idea ever, lmao.
quick tips...
ICs
**Make sure your platform drop oos is on point. Every uair you shield on a platform is a free fair - watch out for the nair mix-ups and remember to mash jump if you're in danger of being put into ledge-slip.
**White/Blue grab are just barely long enough to grab through blizzard. Use this option when ICs are being relatively stationary with desync'd blizzard. If they're advancing towards you with it, fsmash will work if they jump too far forward.
**If you opt to jump over / fair blizzard wall (which is a solid option imo), only go for it as popo is about to blizzard. If you do it when nana is going to, you will be pivot grabbed and lose a stock.
Falco
**Standing white/purple pikmin toss won't hit you if reflected (unless you're using it point blank... but y lmao).
**Always try to crouch cancel his jab. If he goes for jab canceling, you can pshield jab2 (by just holding shield) > usmash him... if he doesn't it's not hard to SDI out. There's no risk in doing it, so might as well do it regardless of what he does.
**Dthrow dair is a reliable throw combo 0-10. the dair sets up for a free upsmash because it either pops him up or stuns him on the ground (without putting him in pratfall).
**Dthrow fsmash regrab is guaranteed at zero if the fsmash is a yellow or white and the regrab is blue or white. After killing falco, whistle already sets your line up for this to work.
**Dthrow regrab is guaranteed at zero and only if both pikmin are blue
**If the opt not to sideB to the ledge, purple pikmin toss gimps them well
**Be careful when on a platform and punishing his bair with usmash oos. The hitboxes trade. While it doesn't hit Olimar, it has a very high chance of killing the pikmin. This is another good area in which platform drop oos is good though ;o
**Falco mains (more than any other char) have a habit of watching your line. In particular, l@rry will almost to a fault. I mean that in terms of he will, 100% of the time, without question, throw out reflector when you have a purple or white next in line... and rarely adapts. Don't try to time the pikmin toss after his reflector... the window to do it it too small to bother trying or practicing.
**Know that he has just as much trouble killing you and you have killing him. I like to use that as my mantra when we're on first stock so I don't get impatient and try to kill him first and then end up dying. Lasers will never kill you, so first stock percent lead doesn't matter... and I'm under the impression falco cannot time olimar out without losing one stock, lol.
already going to be late to work, fml. oh well... hope it helps d:
IC
Fair is definitely one of our best moves vs ICs, but dsmash and usmash... not so much. All of Olimar's moves are shield grab-able regardless of spacing sans fsmash; however, see the problem with fsmash I mentioned in the 30 days thread.
ICs are the only character you have to watch your nair to usmash or w/e on... since if they DI it and are able to shield the smash, we lose a stock.
Shield push doesn't mean anything anymore... unless you're fortunate enough to know really obscure shiz (I'll let you in on the secrets at whobo, lol)
This is good, but make sure popo is out of punish range since we're more or less committing to being super punishable below anywhere between 37-43 frames if it makes contact. One popo upair and you lose all your momentum of getting them apart. In such situations, fair or bair is a lot safer.
marf
Well, for the most part, yeah. Tippered attacks are a free grab with solid ISSDI, but if you're not comfortable or fluid enough to get at least 3-4 inputs in... don't go for it.
If the first 1/3 of his sword (aerials) is punishable with usmash, the first half is punishable with grab (aerials and grounded attacks)... but outside that range you run the risk of getting dolphin slashed.
^^^^
I have a lot to say about this, but tl;dr is 100% right on the money. A big part about playing effectively against marth is abusing the fact that him throwing out an aerial is your best chance to get away from the ledge and back toward the middle to run to the other side to capm again =D.
^^^^^^^^^
Forget any notion of killing with any throw up blue/purple uthrow and take any opportunity you can to throw marth off stage. The amount of damage we can rack on marth here is around as much as we can get on DDD throwing pikmin. It's that good, xD
Yeah, note... he only has an absurd amount of lag if and only if he upBs to the edge.
falco
If you hold toward the stage with the control stick and mash up on the c-stick, you will land on stage 100% of the time. If falco does not buffer a jump from his dair, we have the opportunity to fair him after teching the stage.
For the most part, holding away and mashing the c-stick toward falco during the CG is our safest option until he's ready to spike. The % we are able to jump out of the CG is the same as the % we can fair him out of it, don't bother risking losing your second jump.
^
Just watch out for phantasm (note, it isn't logical he would use it in the center half of the stage) and nair. Everything else is easy to punish with usmash oos/grab. for nair you have to visually confirm him landing before inputting the upsmash... otherwise he'll hit you.
DO THIS....... ALL DAY
best rich brown random idea ever, lmao.quick tips...
ICs
**Make sure your platform drop oos is on point. Every uair you shield on a platform is a free fair - watch out for the nair mix-ups and remember to mash jump if you're in danger of being put into ledge-slip.
**White/Blue grab are just barely long enough to grab through blizzard. Use this option when ICs are being relatively stationary with desync'd blizzard. If they're advancing towards you with it, fsmash will work if they jump too far forward.
**If you opt to jump over / fair blizzard wall (which is a solid option imo), only go for it as popo is about to blizzard. If you do it when nana is going to, you will be pivot grabbed and lose a stock.
Falco
**Standing white/purple pikmin toss won't hit you if reflected (unless you're using it point blank... but y lmao).
**Always try to crouch cancel his jab. If he goes for jab canceling, you can pshield jab2 (by just holding shield) > usmash him... if he doesn't it's not hard to SDI out. There's no risk in doing it, so might as well do it regardless of what he does.
**Dthrow dair is a reliable throw combo 0-10. the dair sets up for a free upsmash because it either pops him up or stuns him on the ground (without putting him in pratfall).
**Dthrow fsmash regrab is guaranteed at zero if the fsmash is a yellow or white and the regrab is blue or white. After killing falco, whistle already sets your line up for this to work.
**Dthrow regrab is guaranteed at zero and only if both pikmin are blue
**If the opt not to sideB to the ledge, purple pikmin toss gimps them well
**Be careful when on a platform and punishing his bair with usmash oos. The hitboxes trade. While it doesn't hit Olimar, it has a very high chance of killing the pikmin. This is another good area in which platform drop oos is good though ;o
**Falco mains (more than any other char) have a habit of watching your line. In particular, l@rry will almost to a fault. I mean that in terms of he will, 100% of the time, without question, throw out reflector when you have a purple or white next in line... and rarely adapts. Don't try to time the pikmin toss after his reflector... the window to do it it too small to bother trying or practicing.
**Know that he has just as much trouble killing you and you have killing him. I like to use that as my mantra when we're on first stock so I don't get impatient and try to kill him first and then end up dying. Lasers will never kill you, so first stock percent lead doesn't matter... and I'm under the impression falco cannot time olimar out without losing one stock, lol.
already going to be late to work, fml. oh well... hope it helps d:
Sky Pirate
The best defense is a lot of frigging healing
Oh that reminds me, watch out for Laser to BDACUS. It's pretty damned fast.
Dnyce, WHEN DO YOU SLEEP? XD
Dnyce, WHEN DO YOU SLEEP? XD
DUB
Smash Lord
As far as alts for the matchups, I don't think just 1 char can cover all 3 of those MU's as a secondary for Oli.
DUB
Smash Lord
It's just preference and it never hurts. I know a lot of Oli players in general don't use secondaries.
-Coco-
Smash Ace
Not saying I would but i can see why people would for idk ICs since it can be a frusterating matchup lol
DUB
Smash Lord
If u dont mind Marth as Oli - Wario for Falco/IC & Odd Stages
According to BBR MU Chart- Diddy has even or advantagous matchups on all 3.
Dabuz has taken Olimar to a different level, and raising a secondary to his Olis level would be a huge time investment. Just up to you if you want to tough it out and look for new ways to fight his troublesome matchups or CP chars.
According to BBR MU Chart- Diddy has even or advantagous matchups on all 3.
Dabuz has taken Olimar to a different level, and raising a secondary to his Olis level would be a huge time investment. Just up to you if you want to tough it out and look for new ways to fight his troublesome matchups or CP chars.
Dabuz
Fraud at Smash
At this point in brawl, picking up a new secondary for certain MUs is...hard @_@
Zori
Smash Champion
^^^^ I agree with dabuz a lot on that one the metagame has changed
zori=sync
:]
zori=sync
:]
Sync.
Smash Champion
Show me the ways this weekend Fino
steep
Smash Lord
I main Mario/Luigi and have a solid secondary Olimar and I am thinking about using Olimar for all three of these characters, as well as against D3. This thread has been very helpful! I will probably be more active around the Olimar boards in the near future. :D
RichBrown
Smash Master
Marth you just space stutterstep Fsmash. Avoid shielding until you absolutely have to. Surprise them with fair because they'll jump right above you to scare you, wait a sec, then fair. So in that sec you gotta fair them. But only sometimes. They like to use their first jump, then right as they are about to land double jump and fair, so watch for that. Just pretend like you're whiffing a pivot grab, then do a pivot grab for real or something.
Falco just stay grounded for the most part, roll backwards to punish sideB.
ICs I recently realized I just gotta play like a ******* and spam ****. Also I've been practicing ****** nana, that way when I separate them even once, Nana is dead.
Falco just stay grounded for the most part, roll backwards to punish sideB.
ICs I recently realized I just gotta play like a ******* and spam ****. Also I've been practicing ****** nana, that way when I separate them even once, Nana is dead.
No, if you watch what ICs are doing you can take advantage of them a LOT better than spamming / hoping for the best
