Q&A How Do I Penguin? King Dedede Q&A Thread

[CaptainVul]

I've gotten down B-Reverse Inhale pretty well but I can't seem to do the B-Reverse Gordo Toss, is it possible to do? Because I know you can't B-Reverse some moves I just want to know if Gordo Tossing is one of them.

 

[manueluno]

What do you mean b-reverse gordo toss? B reverse is something that applies to neutral b moves since you can't input a direction while executing them. So, you input the side and release the stick just before pressing b.

For gordo toss you need to input a direction, so you just do and the character turns the other way.

 

[dean.]

What do you mean b-reverse gordo toss? B reverse is something that applies to neutral b moves since you can't input a direction while executing them. So, you input the side and release the stick just before pressing b.

That better describes a turn-around Inhale, which doesn't change Dedede's momentum at all. A B-reverse special is where you input the opposite direction AFTER pressing B, which reverses any aerial momentum Dedede has when used in the air and lets you turn around Inhale out of a dash on the ground.

As for the OP's question, it is impossible to B-reverse Gordo Throw and Jet Hammer, but possible for Inhale and Super Dedede Jump.

 

[CaptainVul]

Yeah B-Reversing is when you reverse the momentum of the direction you're going when you use a B special

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vw1elkJwtDo

and okay thanks Dean, happy I didn't waste my time too much trying to learn how to B-Reverse those moves. I've been playing around with the B-Reverse inhale and I can already say that its extremely useful. Especially when you jump off stage and B-Reverse back on when someone is trying to shield grab on the ledge. I kinda want to see if its good for ledge guarding when someone is recovering low.

Its really nice for mix-ups in general, I'm gonna try to implement it into my normal gameplay.

 

[shrooby]

@ CaptainVul I merged your thread with this 'ne since it was a pretty straightforward question.

Yeah, b-reversing Inhale is actually really useful. It's a good thing to know how to apply. Definitely not a waste of time.~

 

[Cook]

If you throw a gordo and you think it's gonna be hit back the fastest option is shield, right? I've just always assumed this, but wanted to make sure you can't cancel the gordo lag by doing something else instead.

 

[JimmyTheCaterpillar]

If you throw a gordo and you think it's gonna be hit back the fastest option is shield, right? I've just always assumed this, but wanted to make sure you can't cancel the gordo lag by doing something else instead.

Essentially, yes. This is the absolute fastest way of making a traitorous gordo leave you alone.

However, if you are anticipating the betrayal, a shorthop nair is another very fast way to not only avoid getting hit,but to send it back to your opponent.

 

[shrooby]

If you're aiming to reflect it then the fastest option is d-tilt
Also the safest and most reliable imo since using nair can sometimes result in grabbing and whacking it back instead of just reflecting it.

 

[Axel311]

Ok, I've got a lot of questions for you good Dedede mains out there. Hope you don't mind the length. I've really tried to pick out the flaws in my Dedede lately. Sorry if some of these are too general or aren't clear. I've tried to be as specific as I can.

- Which characters should I generally go for jab cancel to grab against? Against certain characters should I not jab cancel and just do the full jab combo instead? It seems like some of the lighter characters can DI out of my reach after I cancel the 2nd jab, before I get a chance to grab them.

- Should I pummel when I get a grab or not? How fast can people mash out of it? Right now I’m not pummeling before I perform a Dthrow to Upair or Dthrow to Nair, should I? It seems like if I pummel even only once it gives people time to mash out of the grab.

- Is all the bobbing up and down with fast falls all the time necessary? I do this some, when baiting a FF nair or FF bair but I’ve noticed other Dedede players I’ve seen on youtube like JDawg do it constantly, pretty much the whole match. I’m wondering if my Dedede is spending too much time on the ground.

- What should I do after I get a kill and the opponent has temp invincibility from their respawn? I keep getting rushed down while they have invincibility. I feel really vulnerable during this time immediately after I get a KO.

- When do you snipe with gordos and when do you put an up gordo on the edge? I wondering when the best times are to use each edgeguard option.

- When using up gordos at the edge to edgeguard, often my opponents will just wait for gordo to dissapear while being protected by their temporary invincibility frames on the edge and then recover. Am I just throwing up gordo too late? Any tips here?

- I too often get Up smashed as Dedede after I climb up on the ledge by characters like Megaman and Roy. What’s the best way to prevent this? Seems like I’m getting hit immediately upon getting up on stage before I can roll. Seems like this technique is preventing all recovery options except for recovering high. Should I just be recovering high against these characters or is there a way to avoid this? Seems like the temporary invisibility you get often wears off before Dedede has a chance to roll. I'm not sure if it's Dedede's big hitbox here that's giving me problems, or if I'm just recovering from off stage incorrectly.

Thanks for any help!

 

[Ghidorah14]

Ok, I've got a lot of questions for you good Dedede mains out there. Hope you don't mind the length. I've really tried to pick out the flaws in my Dedede lately. Sorry if some of these are too general or aren't clear. I've tried to be as specific as I can.

- Which characters should I generally go for jab cancel to grab against? Against certain characters should I not jab cancel and just do the full jab combo instead? It seems like some of the lighter characters can DI out of my reach after I cancel the 2nd jab, before I get a chance to grab them.

I only do this on heavy characters and fast fallers. Lighter characters can escape pretty easily, so it's better just to finish the jab.

- Should I pummel when I get a grab or not? How fast can people mash out of it? Right now I’m not pummeling before I perform a Dthrow to Upair or Dthrow to Nair, should I? It seems like if I pummel even only once it gives people time to mash out of the grab.

Depends on their percent. I try to do it like this.
0-30% = no pummel
40-70% = one pummel
80-100% = two pummels
100-130+% = three pummels

- Is all the bobbing up and down with fast falls all the time necessary? I do this some, when baiting a FF nair or FF bair but I’ve noticed other Dedede players I’ve seen on youtube like JDawg do it constantly, pretty much the whole match. I’m wondering if my Dedede is spending too much time on the ground.

It keeps your opponent on edge because you're constantly moving. Also, they cant dash grab you or get too close without risking a nair to the face, and if they try to challenge you in the air, you FF into shield grab.

- What should I do after I get a kill and the opponent has temp invincibility from their respawn? I keep getting rushed down while they have invincibility. I feel really vulnerable during this time immediately after I get a KO.

Dedede has multiple jumps. Use them.

- When do you snipe with gordos and when do you put an up gordo on the edge? I wondering when the best times are to use each edgeguard option.

Depends on the character's recovery, and if they recover low or mid. For example, an upGordo is good against a falcon because he has almost no choice but to put himself in that position and risk getting hit.

- When using up gordos at the edge to edgeguard, often my opponents will just wait for gordo to dissapear while being protected by their temporary invincibility frames on the edge and then recover. Am I just throwing up gordo too late? Any tips here?

Yeah, you just need to time it better. I try to make it so that it bounces once and then falls.

- I too often get Up smashed as Dedede after I climb up on the ledge by characters like Megaman and Roy. What’s the best way to prevent this? Seems like I’m getting hit immediately upon getting up on stage before I can roll. Seems like this technique is preventing all recovery options except for recovering high. Should I just be recovering high against these characters or is there a way to avoid this? Seems like the temporary invisibility you get often wears off before Dedede has a chance to roll. I'm not sure if it's Dedede's big hitbox here that's giving me problems, or if I'm just recovering from off stage incorrectly.

Thanks for any help!

Again, it depends on their position. If they're right above me, I like to drop down and nail 'em with an upair or fair. You could also drop down, jump backwards, and then do a reversed upB while aiming toward center stage. When you upB while not facing the ledge, you go right past it, allowing you to land on the stage "safely," as they cant catch you with upsmash or really punish the landing due to the stars he creates.

 

[JimmyTheCaterpillar]

I've been working a lot on the grab -> SH Uair -> Grab -> etc. string and I'm getting better at it the more I do it, however, some characters I just cannot do it to. Is there a cut-off point where you can't do it to a certain weight and below, or is it possible and I just need more work?

I'm having trouble with mostly the low middle and lightweight characters, and I usually only go for it if they are at 50% or below.

Thanks guys.

 

[Soul Train]

I'm having trouble with mostly the low middle and lightweight characters, and I usually only go for it if they are at 50% or below.

Thanks guys.

You already got the idea. The Uair to grab cancel will only work if you can touch the ground before that final high knockback hit. So anytime someone flies too high (mid %s or light characters) it just won't work. I actually go for the Uair reset at 0% on the Uber light characters.

My personal rules for it: against the heavies, abuse. Against fast fallers, use unpredictably. Against Luigi/Yoshi oh gawd no why do they have nairs like that

 

[KingJames]

Who do you guys think has the best d3 in the us?

 

[JimmyTheCaterpillar]

Who do you guys think has the best d3 in the us?

Me.

Jk. Or maybe not I dunno.

But from what I've seen, I wouldn't argue if someone were to say that @ Soul Train has the best understanding of Dedesy's character and functions.

This question is pretty subjective though, so I'm sure you'll get a lot of different answers.

 

[Dumpabump]

So I recently picked up the King because he intruiged me. I am by no means good at this game, but I think I'm an average player. Who would be a good secondary to cover D3's weaknesses? I have a decent understanding of a majority of the cast so it shouldn't be too hard for me to learn the secondary

 

[Soul Train]

Me.

Jk. Or maybe not I dunno.

But from what I've seen, I wouldn't argue if someone were to say that @ Soul Train has the best understanding of Dedesy's character and functions.

If so, that's because I'm literally obsessive about testing dumb things. Seconds it takes D3 to jump to the top of the Temple? yep. I was that kid who counted licks to the center of the tootsie pop and averaged the results. Don't even ask

But there are a bunch of great D3s on the this forum. Out of the ones I've played, @Jdawg26 is fantastic, such solid fundamentals and high level experience against some of the top talent on the east coast. Some pretty dumb things are said on the matchup ratings board by For Glory only people exactly because they don't have real experience like this.

From what I've seen, @ | Big D | is also a deadly D3. Haven't gotten a chance to get sets, but his vids are full of solid play and crazy hype.

So I recently picked up the King because he intruiged me. I am by no means good at this game, but I think I'm an average player. Who would be a good secondary to cover D3's weaknesses? I have a decent understanding of a majority of the cast so it shouldn't be too hard for me to learn the secondary

Good question. D3 does get wrecked by specific matchups - Zero Suit, Sonic, Yoshi - and as they are all higher tier, and all good D3 players have a strong secondary/matchup-dependent primary to deal with this. Jdawg, mentioned above, uses Shiek, Big D uses Falcon, I use Pika. But it really depends on who works well for you. Ness? Luigi? You pick, but whatever you pick stick with it for a bit. Specialists win tourneys.

 

[Jatayu]

Jdawg is probably the best Dedede I've seen, but I haven't seen many Dededes.

Also, it takes an average of 142 licks to reach the center of a Tootsie Pop. The more you know.

 

[Dumpabump]

Good question. D3 does get wrecked by specific matchups - Zero Suit, Sonic, Yoshi - and as they are all higher tier, and all good D3 players have a strong secondary/matchup-dependent primary to deal with this. Jdawg, mentioned above, uses Shiek, Big D uses Falcon, I use Pika. But it really depends on who works well for you. Ness? Luigi? You pick, but whatever you pick stick with it for a bit. Specialists win tourneys.

Alright, thank you.

I think I'll try picking up Falcon or Ness

Edit: You mentioned the matchups of Zero Suit, Yoshi and Sonic. Are there any other notable matchups that I should try to avoid as D3? LIke I said, I'm a bit new to D3. I've read up on the Matchup Discussion thread but I would like to hear your opinion.

 

[Soul Train]

Alright, thank you.

I think I'll try picking up Falcon or Ness

Edit: You mentioned the matchups of Zero Suit, Yoshi and Sonic. Are there any other notable matchups that I should try to avoid as D3? LIke I said, I'm a bit new to D3. I've read up on the Matchup Discussion thread but I would like to hear your opinion.

First realize there's a huge difference in matchups at a casual level, and then at a competitive high level. Some characters aren't that good until a player utilizes all of their tools well. Take Luigi as an example - he only becomes deadly once players know how to space extremely well, bait, and utilize his crazy grab game. Inversely, a lot of lower-tier characters/strategies are better at lower skill levels - like Bowser, or roll-spam Samus. Newer players won't know how to punish the openings there, while better players will get free combos all day.

Point: the threat posed to D3 by each smash character changes on the player's skill level. And at everything but the highest levels, D3 actually does incredibly well - he allows you make a lot of mistakes, kills early, and can be hard to punish when you don't know his openings.

With one notable exception: SANIC. Even if a player just picked him up, it's very easy to pick up and play a mid level+ Sonic, due to his priority, speed, and bloody safety in everything he does. Sonic is the one character that just doesn't have to play the game that is smash, where others have to take risks and get reads to kill. Ugh don't get me starteddd

But as you play, there is one thought that will keep you getting better: everyone you play has something to teach you. Getting wrecked? Try playing more defensive, work on playing safer. Wrecking them? Practice mixing up your offense. Etc. The great thing about online (as much as it sucks) is that you do get a huge variety of strategies and playstyles.

If you haven't yet take a look at my D3 guide here, it should help you move forward as well.

 

[Dumpabump]

First realize there's a huge difference in matchups at a casual level, and then at a competitive high level. Some characters aren't that good until a player utilizes all of their tools well. Take Luigi as an example - he only becomes deadly once players know how to space extremely well, bait, and utilize his crazy grab game. Inversely, a lot of lower-tier characters/strategies are better at lower skill levels - like Bowser, or roll-spam Samus. Newer players won't know how to punish the openings there, while better players will get free combos all day.

Point: the threat posed to D3 by each smash character changes on the player's skill level. And at everything but the highest levels, D3 actually does incredibly well - he allows you make a lot of mistakes, kills early, and can be hard to punish when you don't know his openings.

With one notable exception: SANIC. Even if a player just picked him up, it's very easy to pick up and play a mid level+ Sonic, due to his priority, speed, and bloody safety in everything he does. Sonic is the one character that just doesn't have to play the game that is smash, where others have to take risks and get reads to kill. Ugh don't get me starteddd

But as you play, there is one thought that will keep you getting better: everyone you play has something to teach you. Getting wrecked? Try playing more defensive, work on playing safer. Wrecking them? Practice mixing up your offense. Etc. The great thing about online (as much as it sucks) is that you do get a huge variety of strategies and playstyles.

If you haven't yet take a look at my D3 guide here, it should help you move forward as well.

Thank you very much for all the help, I really appreciate it! I'll just keep grinding out matches and take what I learn from them and apply that to the next.

Your guide is one of the factors that got me into picking up D3. It's an absolutely amazing guide, thank you for it as well.

 

[| Big D |]

I'm from Canada I don't count

Aside from the already mentioned Dededes, Vex has a monster of a Dedede but he doesn't bring him out as much.

Seibrik also has a really good Dedede being my mentor at times, wish I got to see more of it.

 

[KingJames]

I believe I have the best d3 have to prove it at big house 5. have a lot of secret tech.

 

[Mighty Moose]

Planning on getting onto Anther's soon - what should I be looking at for stage striking/banning with D3? I get no FD already but other than that i'm stumped.

 

[Dumpabump]

I believe I have the best d3 have to prove it at big house 5. have a lot of secret tech.

You should share that with us.... :D

 

[Soul Train]

I believe I have the best d3 have to prove it at big house 5. have a lot of secret tech.

Back it up. My NNID is at the left. And take a class on grammar.

Planning on getting onto Anther's soon - what should I be looking at for stage striking/banning with D3? I get no FD already but other than that i'm stumped.

FD is actually fine against most.
Ban Town and City against anyone that kills upwards early (DK, Zero Suit Samus, Sonic).
Castle Siege can be a great counterpick. The first transformation is probably one of the best stages for D3 there is.
Personally I hate Battlefield, D3 gets combo'd for days.

But honestly you'll probably play most matches on Smashville. Get used to it.

 

[atomicblast360]

Question 1: In what situations should I use forward smash? I tend to never use it.If my opponent rolls onto the stage from the ledge, I usually use down smash, but sometimes they'll power shield it and grab me. Should I be using forward smash near the ledge most of the time to edge guard? Also are there any other situations where I should use it?

Question 2: Should I be using Bair a lot? Or wait until they are near KO percents and use it so it's not stale? A lot of times I end up using this move way to much and eventually they'll start always shielding it, so should I just wait till KO percents as I stated before or use it a good amount?

Question 3: How should I approach? Most of the time I tend to stay in the air and try to hit a FF Nair, bair, an inhale, or even a fair, generally I stay in the air a lot in the neutral, I notice I rarely approach with Ftilt, or jab, or even grab really. Should I consider using ground options like ftilt, jab, ext, instead of staying in the air in the neutral and trying to hit a nair, bair, ext so much?

Sorry if these questions are sort of confusing or long, these are generally my biggest weaknesses right now as a Dedede player, and trying to improve

 

[TMJ_Jack]

How many frames does it take to reach the peak of the Super Dedede Jump? Halfway to the peak?

 

[MitchBerryCrunch]

How do you get the Gordo that bounces almost in place?

 

[Dumpabump]

How do you get the Gordo that bounces almost in place?

or + , then immediately after

Mess around with it in Training, you'll get the hang of it fairly quickly

 

[MitchBerryCrunch]

Ah, true say, it's fairly lenient timing.

 

[Dexmaster]

I'm sorry if this has been posted, but what are some really good D3 combos for every percent? Another question: How many gordos is too many gordos? and when should I be throwing out a gordo?

 

[Dumpabump]

I'm sorry if this has been posted, but what are some really good D3 combos for every percent?

0-5% FF nair - dtilt - ftilt
Grab - Dthrow - fair/uair
Grab - Dthrow - up smash (works up until 15%. DI dependent, but the damage is nice)


If I can get a grab between 5-15%, Ill go with dthrow - SH Uair (fast fall it. It drags them back down) - regrab - Dthrow - uair/fair

It works with most %s, but jab 1 - jab 2 - grab - Dthrow - uair/fair

Jab 1 - jab 2 - dsmash

There's probably a lot more that I'm missing, but these are what I mainly use

 

[Soul Train]

I'm sorry if this has been posted, but what are some really good D3 combos for every percent? Another question: How many gordos is too many gordos? and when should I be throwing out a gordo?

@ D Dumpabump covered some of the main stuff. If you want more, watch this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fb_CxEabDXc

 

[Axel311]

I'm sorry if this has been posted, but what are some really good D3 combos for every percent? Another question: How many gordos is too many gordos? and when should I be throwing out a gordo?

Bread and butter is

jab ---> jab ---> grab ---> Dthrow --> Nair at low %
jab ---> jab ---> grab ---> Dthrow --> Upair at mid to high % until they fly out of upair range, then just bthrow or fthrow to get them off stage unless you want to try and bait an air dodge.

Also

FF nair --> Uptilt is very useful at low percents. Can often follow with another uptilt or an upair.

You can make longer combo strings out of some of these at times depending on opponent DI. As for gordos, usually don't want to throw them out in neutral unless you know you have enough time to reflect or the opponent has bad reflect options. Best use for gordos is for space control and edgeguarding.

 

[shrooby]

Question 1: In what situations should I use forward smash? I tend to never use it.If my opponent rolls onto the stage from the ledge, I usually use down smash, but sometimes they'll power shield it and grab me. Should I be using forward smash near the ledge most of the time to edge guard? Also are there any other situations where I should use it?

Question 2: Should I be using Bair a lot? Or wait until they are near KO percents and use it so it's not stale? A lot of times I end up using this move way to much and eventually they'll start always shielding it, so should I just wait till KO percents as I stated before or use it a good amount?

Question 3: How should I approach? Most of the time I tend to stay in the air and try to hit a FF Nair, bair, an inhale, or even a fair, generally I stay in the air a lot in the neutral, I notice I rarely approach with Ftilt, or jab, or even grab really. Should I consider using ground options like ftilt, jab, ext, instead of staying in the air in the neutral and trying to hit a nair, bair, ext so much?

Sorry if these questions are sort of confusing or long, these are generally my biggest weaknesses right now as a Dedede player, and trying to improve

1) Punishes and hard reads.
At the ledge it's better to just wait for your opponent to do something than commit to such long attack. Which is why d-smash is better since you can generally pull it out in time if you catch them right as they start rolling.
If you didn't catch them near the beginning of the animation, then, yeah, they can powershield it. Just don't commit to d-smash if you know the timing is off. Just go for ftilt, jab or a grab A smaller punish is better than getting punished yourself.

2) Bair and upair are honestly Dedede's overall best aerials imo. Abuse them.
Bair is Dedede's main spacing tool when he's in the air. You just can't afford to not use it.
Yeah, it stales, but being that you're probably gonna be KOing people with edgeguards (so they're already at one side of the stage), or the most likely unstaled d-smash, it isn't that important.
Plus, even staled, bair with rage is scary.

3) It depends on the character.
Some characters like Olimar and Luigi practically force aerial approaches since the air is the safest place to be against them. (Olimar can't really do anything if you're not in his line of sight or directly above him. Luigi's Fireballs are much easier to deal with when floating about with our multiple jumps.)
Some characters it's better to stay grounded 'cause they can punish your jumps and landings very well. Falcon, for instance, it's better to stay grounded 'cause our grounded options are our best options for keeping him out. And he's looking for you to get into the air so he can rush you with aerials.
Knowing which is best comes from knowing your opponent's character and MU experience, basically.

The big issues with certain MUs is that some characters can force you into the air and then beat you in the air. Which is why the ZSS MU is terrible. #_#

How many frames does it take to reach the peak of the Super Dedede Jump? Halfway to the peak?

@ KuroganeHammer SOS pls ty D:

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I dunno, I haven't looked at Dedede yet.

 

[TMJ_Jack]

I dunno, I haven't looked at Dedede yet.

Pls

 

[atomicblast360]

1) Punishes and hard reads.
At the ledge it's better to just wait for your opponent to do something than commit to such long attack. Which is why d-smash is better since you can generally pull it out in time if you catch them right as they start rolling.
If you didn't catch them near the beginning of the animation, then, yeah, they can powershield it. Just don't commit to d-smash if you know the timing is off. Just go for ftilt, jab or a grab A smaller punish is better than getting punished yourself.

2) Bair and upair are honestly Dedede's overall best aerials imo. Abuse them.
Bair is Dedede's main spacing tool when he's in the air. You just can't afford to not use it.
Yeah, it stales, but being that you're probably gonna be KOing people with edgeguards (so they're already at one side of the stage), or the most likely unstaled d-smash, it isn't that important.
Plus, even staled, bair with rage is scary.

3) It depends on the character.
Some characters like Olimar and Luigi practically force aerial approaches since the air is the safest place to be against them. (Olimar can't really do anything if you're not in his line of sight or directly above him. Luigi's Fireballs are much easier to deal with when floating about with our multiple jumps.)
Some characters it's better to stay grounded 'cause they can punish your jumps and landings very well. Falcon, for instance, it's better to stay grounded 'cause our grounded options are our best options for keeping him out. And he's looking for you to get into the air so he can rush you with aerials.
Knowing which is best comes from knowing your opponent's character and MU experience, basically.

The big issues with certain MUs is that some characters can force you into the air and then beat you in the air. Which is why the ZSS MU is terrible. #_#


@ KuroganeHammer SOS pls ty D:

Thanks for replying to each Helped give me a better understanding on certain things. Anyway, one question I still do have, with Bair, you said abuse it and use it a lot, but I find when I use it too often, and land with bair too much after floating, they'll almost always start to shield it every time, how can I get around this issue? Not land with it as often possibly/Short hop bair more? (This happens a lot on more flat stages.)

 

[shrooby]

Thanks for replying to each Helped give me a better understanding on certain things. Anyway, one question I still do have, with Bair, you said abuse it and use it a lot, but I find when I use it too often, and land with bair too much after floating, they'll almost always start to shield it every time, how can I get around this issue? Not land with it as often possibly/Short hop bair more? (This happens a lot on more flat stages.)

Two things to say:

Land with Inhale! It's a command grab, so it goes through shields.
Classic Dedede strat' haha~
Or land with nothing and grab them. That's also an option.

You can also, especially advisable against certain characters (Rosalinaaaaaaaa), just not try to land on stage and go for the ledge. It's fine to just go to the ledge and try to reset the situation from there. You don't always, and shouldn't always, have to land directly on stage. Patience is key.~

 

[supersage400]

Hi there. Two quick questions.

First, I'm wondering about down tilted gordo tosses. Are there any kind of useful things you can do with them that you can't accomplish with the other two varieties? I can see immediate applications for up tilting gordos, creating edgeguard traps and walls and all kinds of nasty things, but the purpose of a down tilted toss eludes me. I can't see it serving a purpose that the normal toss wouldn't serve on its own. Best I can come up with is that since it bounces higher and moves slower, it might throw people who are trying to reflect the faster, more direct gordos, so it could be a mix up for the straight up regular toss. Is there anything they're really useful for?

Second, I'm curious about Dream Land vs. Battlefield for Dedede. In a situation where we have to choose between one or the other, is one more advantageous for us than the other? Or do they both suck equally and we just have to pick our poison?

Thanks in advance.