How could they have made Link a deeper character?

[BRLNK88]

When it comes down to it, especially against top tier characters, his options are crap.
What could have been done differently to eliminate this?
Better frame data? A longer wavedash? More sword attacks? Stronger projectiles?
A better grab?

I think the lack of activity on this board speaks for itself, Link's options suck, and they make him hard to win with at a high level.

 

[Bing]

Legit they could have made him a little faster. I feel his lack of speed limit some options. His grab should retract faster. His combo options arent bad. I think a huge issue of his is the lag after almost all of his attacks his too huge. Basically adjusting these things could make him a more viable character. Its like Young Link, a very good character but has very little ko power with a straight hit other then dair and fair really.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Would bacon make it better?

 

[Bing]

again, yes?

 

[BRLNK88]

would bacon make it better?

****ing smart!!!

And some jack daniels saaaaawwwwwwccccce.....

 

[Problem2]

Would bacon make it better?

If bacon makes you better, I wonder how bad Mr. G&W is without it.

 

[BRLNK88]

G&W throws sausage.

 

[Bing]

It was defs Bacon in Melee... then became Sausage in Brawl...

Its okay he doesnt throw Canadian Bacon, so its not a waste.

 

[FerrishTheFish]

Remove some of the lag from his attacks ... They are like laggier than Marth's with 1/4 the KO potential. I can deal with his crappy knockback on a lot of his moves, I can deal with his crappy hitboxes, I can deal with his terrible dashdance, wavedash, and grabs, but he needs less lag. An aerial meteor smash would be nice, too, though off-hand I can't really think of which existing aerial I would want replaced. Bair maybe? Have him swipe his sword behind him similar to his f-tilt, but more vertical, and it meteor smashes? (Spike might be asking too much ... )

 

[Bing]

I love Links Bair, its great for combos... Also Link does have a spike. Just stand at the very edge of the stage and d-tilt-sweetspot the recovery. ****.

 

[BRLNK88]

I wouldn't call it ****, its one of the hardest meteors to hit with, and its comparatively not that powerful.

btw, CrappyCaptureDevice says its sausage in both games

 

[Bing]

Im still saying Bacon.

And also, Im pretty decent with the meteor... I spent a lot of time trying to get good with it....

 

[BRLNK88]

Any time I manage to hit with it it just gets ledge-teched, and it has too much start-up to hit with it again, aside from hitting with it again and actually hitting with the sweetspot.
I've had far more success hitting with YL's dtilt meteor and fire meteor, they should've given Link something like that.
But I do agree, Link's bair is a great move.

 

[Bing]

What I tend to do when it gets teched is just follow up with an up-B. Generally when the person techs the first response is to recover and the run into the up-b.

 

[BRLNK88]

Thats not a bad idea.

 

[Bing]

It works really well on spacies because when they get hit by it, they get ****ed.
Im not a Link main, but I use it all the time

 

[Skler]

He's a victim of really stupid frames compared to everyone else. If all his moves came out about 3 frames faster and had 3 frames less of lag he'd be really good. Instead he has a jab that comes out at frame 7 or so, which is when most other character's tilts come out.

Nintendo just felt like making him slow because sword + projectiles = broken, I guess. If his moves were faster he's be a real contender, but as is he has no real options against shield pressure and thus gets locked down stupid-easy. If his moves were faster he'd have OOS options and the ability to counter approaches with his own attacks without the player needing omnipotence.

Oh, and if his special animations cancelled on landing he'd be much better as well. SH boomerangs backwards would be a viable option instead of "lol I guess I'll punch you in the dong while you lag with a move that hits through the rang anyways."

Short list:

Best buff, probably would put him around mid-high: Faster moves (3 frames or so on both ends)

Makes him simply high tier (just barely): Options to cancel moves


Edit: Link's meteor is dangerous. If you're at the correct distance to use it (right on the edge) your spin can be undercut by a space animal recoveries. I mean, bthrow -> spin is still HILARIOUS on C falcons who don't expect it, but other than that they'll probably recover against it. And you'll get hit.

 

[Bing]

I agree, I have no real issue with his moves other than the speed and lag of his moves.

 

[MALVM MALVM]

If one looks at Link from a low-level play perspective, he's pretty broken. He's not that tall, has a good shield, has a Hylian shield, has three projectiles, a killer upb, strong attacks, a tether gab, and a sword. What's a low-level Marth going to do?
If you make Link faster, then what's Marth going to do against a lightning bruiser like the new Link? Bombs wouldn't slow Marth down, they'd devastate him. Falco would squeak by with lazors and combos as he always does, Shiek would still be Shiek, and Fox would be as Fox as a Fox in Super Smash Brothers Fox. Other than that, Link would dominate.

 

[Bing]

If one looks at almost any character from a low-tier characters stand-point.. most characters look broken.. thats why they're low tiers.

Also, When we say make Link faster, we dont mean make him Fox/Sheik/Falcon with a Sword,Sheid, Projectiles. We just mean a bit faster because he's horribly slow now... Bowser probably out-runs him...

 

[BRLNK88]

If one looks at Link from a low-level play perspective, he's pretty broken. He's not that tall, has a good shield, has a Hylian shield, has three projectiles, a killer upb, strong attacks, a tether gab, and a sword. What's a low-level Marth going to do?
If you make Link faster, then what's Marth going to do against a lightning bruiser like the new Link? Bombs wouldn't slow Marth down, they'd devastate him. Falco would squeak by with lazors and combos as he always does, Shiek would still be Shiek, and Fox would be as Fox as a Fox in Super Smash Brothers Fox. Other than that, Link would dominate.

I completely agree.
I used to think Link actually had a slight advantage over Marth until I started playing Marths that knew the MU really well, and I saw just what a pain in the *** it can be.
Your spacing and reads have to be super on-point, once he starts pressuring you with fairs, there's not much you can do. Once he has you off stage it might be prudent to just kill yourself...
It's still winnable at a high level, I've seen GERM do it plenty, but its hard. There was one match of his against Falcomist where every bomb he threw was planned to the key. He finished him by laying down one bomb, pulling another, and going bomb -> bomb -> fair.

 

[Bing]

Stage choice is huge in that MU. If you take away Marth's Platforms I feel that Its more in your favour because you can just camp projectiles until he makes a mistake.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Link's complete lack of any mobility is his biggest weakness IMO.

 

[Bing]

i Think thats what we've all been saying... just some people are taking it to extremes.

 

[BRLNK88]

Stage choice is huge in that MU. If you take away Marth's Platforms I feel that Its more in your favour because you can just camp projectiles until he makes a mistake.

I've had the most success against Marth on Brinstar and Dreamland.
The acid helps out your recovery while the jankiness of the stage messes with Marth's aerial game, but comboing him isn't an issue for you. Only issues are tether, and Marth using the acid to help combo you. I've done well against both Austin RC and Broly on that stage.
Dreamland is good because its enormous, meaning Marth will have a harder time finishing you, and you have more space to run away and camp. Marth's utilt also doesn't reach through the platform as well.

 

[Bing]

If you are worried about the utilt, remember to pull your shield down on platforms... its not much but its helps.

But yes, dreamland is good, maybe Stadium though the ledge walls dont give you much from Hookshot recoveries

 

[Problem2]

Buff his boomerang to have more hitstun even beyond it's sweetspot when Link first throws it. Give invincibility frames at the start of sword spin up till the magic stuff appears (I think like 6 frames). It never made sense to me for Link to get knocked out of the attack and then the magic surround him. Move would still be punishable. Just have to wait for the end of the move instead. Probably would make him really good for low level play.

 

[BRLNK88]

To add on, give multiple hitboxes to spin attack, since a character can't be hit by the same hitbox twice.
If you flub a spin attack on someone's shield, its not an instant punish.

Basically, once Link hits a shield with spin attack, he's not still spinning around like an idiot with nothing happening and getting grabbed or smashed.

 

[Bing]

Give him like a 5% chance of pulling a bomb-omb. That would be kinda neat XD

 

[Bigglestheman]

Give him like a 5% chance of pulling a bomb-omb. That would be kinda neat XD

That would be awesome!

 

[Mr.Jackpot]

http://projectm.dantarion.com/characters.php?character=link

 

[BRLNK88]

http://projectm.dantarion.com/characters.php?character=link

I was actually hoping making this thread would get more people into Project M.
Link should not be trusted in Sakurai's hands.

 

[MALVM MALVM]

It would be really cool if the first few slashes of the upb dragged the opponent in, and then the penultimate and ultimate slashes were crazy semi-spikes. Kinda like his aerial, just on the ground.

This would probably make it a lot easier to bomb jump as well.

 

[Bing]

Link UpB is great the way it is, the fact that it can just like, spike characters who dont sweet spot the recovery is awesome Im glad it doesnt suck people in

And if it was like you say it is, you would a) Most likely have to be like right beside the person b) Time it right so it did suck them in c) If you did want to send them away, again, have to timed and spaced right.

I disagree with the Up-B part, I do like the rest of what you were suggesting..

 

[N.A.G.A.C.E]

If they just combined all the positives of ylink and link he would be a really legit character

 

[Kal]

Bing, Marth dominates Link just as hard on Final Destination as on the starter stages that have platforms. His reduced mobility is more than compensated for by his overwhelming juggles, which Link can do literally nothing against.

At lower levels of play, Marth vs. Link is 50-50, or even in Link's favor. However, as the skill level increases, Marth's spacing and speed compensate for the discrepancy at lower levels of play (specifically, that Link has an extremely easy time grabbing Marth out of poorly spaced moves, and that these grabs lead into long combos very easily), and the matchup shifts into Marth's favor.

But I think Link would be fantastic (at least more fun) if they just made him a little faster. His individual moves are all so terrible.

 

[Bing]

I agree with what you had to say i regards to the MU, but I just found him easier to contain on FD... mind you I dont even main Link.