How come Project M hasn't replaced Melee for Competitive play?

[lookoutfrombelow]

Hello all!

I am a newbie and this my question may come across as dumb maybe but it still confuses me. I just recently got back into super smash and heard about Project M. After playing it for a while I don't see how come Project M hasn't replaced Melee. Don't get me wrong, Melee is a great game, but isn't it a bit old? Wouldn't it be better to unite the whole player base onto one game and have a bigger competitive community for smash in general? Or is it because Project M is not finished yet so they are waiting on the final version?

Thanks!

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Well, the first thing I can think of is that Project M isn't meant to be an updated Melee.

The game is basically a Melee/Brawl hybrid. (I would say Brawl with wavedashing and not ******** hitstun escape mechanisms but people might get mad)

 

[Mansta]

The fact that PM is a mod puts it in a negative light to a lot of people.

 

[Pickledpotatoes]

I think it's a combination of the time project M 3.0 came out and the fact that it's a mod. Basically, if Project M 3.0 was an official game and came out when Brawl did instead of Brawl, Project M would reign and Melee would not be nearly as big. But that's not the case. Melee is this huge competitive game that's gained a lot of steam from the smash documentary and Evo. Project M 3.0 came out during that super boost, and it is a competitive mod for a game trying to keep up with a competitive game that's much bigger. That bigger game also happens to be official, which attracts more people.

 

[lookoutfrombelow]

In response to everybody else, in MY OWN OPINION, isn't the Proejct M mod fairly easy to get? Having the game Brawl is already 90% of the work. I don't think having it made a default mod for competitive Brawl should be a big issue. So what I'm getting at is just because Project M is a mod, it doesn't deserve as much attention as a really old game such as Melee? I understand the official version of Melee is all you need but having updated to the next generation would just do the scene some uniformity if I am correct. In the end Melee is indeed the bigger game right now, but I was just wondering how come Project M hasn't been gaining as much popularity I think it deserves. I mean, Project M has it's own category on smashboards, doesn't that give it some credibility?

 

[lordvaati]

On top of that, it was also effected by what happened in 2013.
Melee's EVO performance and documentary tore down the invisible barrier between FGC and Smash, actually bringing the together closer then ever before. Top it off with Melee returning to EVO and MLG, Nintendo's statement which said they support the competitive scene, and today's announcement of Team Liquid having Melee as a game they are sponsoring now, it is ushering in what many are calling the Platinum age of Smash.

And that's not even factoring in the new one coming out this year.

 

[Xermo]

In response to everybody else, in MY OWN OPINION, isn't the Proejct M mod fairly easy to get? Having the game Brawl is already 90% of the work. I don't think having it made a default mod for competitive Brawl should be a big issue. So what I'm getting at is just because Project M is a mod, it doesn't deserve as much attention as a really old game such as Melee? I understand the official version of Melee is all you need but having updated to the next generation would just do the scene some uniformity if I am correct. In the end Melee is indeed the bigger game right now, but I was just wondering how come Project M hasn't been gaining as much popularity I think it deserves. I mean, Project M has it's own category on smashboards, doesn't that give it some credibility?

...I think you're underestimating the popularity of the game.

 

[Saproling]

Its a mod and MUH NOSTALGIA!

 

[Guilu]

In response to everybody else, in MY OWN OPINION, isn't the Proejct M mod fairly easy to get?

No.
Try not having an north american wii. People have a lot of trouble trying to figure out how to hack their wii and installing an USB loader.

Thank you PMBR for promoting piracy !
(And before I get told that they don't, fact is, I would not have hacked my wii were it not for PM. Granted I would not play it, but PM's existence is what prompted me to do so. Their intent does not really matter there.)

 

[9bit]

No.
Try not having an north american wii. People have a lot of trouble trying to figure out how to hack their wii and installing an USB loader.

Thank you PMBR for promoting piracy !
(And before I get told that they don't, fact is, I would not have hacked my wii were it not for PM. Granted I would not play it, but PM's existence is what prompted me to do so. Their intent does not really matter there.)

Hacking your Wii is not piracy. You can play PM on a PAL Wii with a legit NTSC disc of Brawl with Gecko (via the Homebrew Channel). You don't have to pirate anything.

Anyway, people love Melee because it's a great game and they have fond memories of it. PM is also a great game but it can't (and wasn't meant to) replace Melee. It's like a spiritual sequel.

 

[Giygacoal]

No.
Try not having an north american wii. People have a lot of trouble trying to figure out how to hack their wii and installing an USB loader.

Thank you PMBR for promoting piracy !
(And before I get told that they don't, fact is, I would not have hacked my wii were it not for PM. Granted I would not play it, but PM's existence is what prompted me to do so. Their intent does not really matter there.)

1.Hacking a Wii has NOTHING to do with piracy,
2.You can run PM without even permanently modding the Wii. just because you aren't ntsc doesn't mean the pmbr supports piracy.

 

[Strong Badam]

There's no reason the games can't co-exist.

 

[Renji64]

Project M is it's own thing same with melee two different worlds but some similar elements.

 

[Phoenix502]

odds are, Melee won't be replaced any time soon because most of the game's players have played it for years, and grow rather attached to what they're used to. you don't switch into a new format without a little trouble... besides, Melee is sort of the base for PM's changes, so while PM will feel notably different for Melee players, it's at least familiar enough to be easy to transition to if they so chose... unlike Brawl

 

[The_NZA]

Melee does some things that people like more than Project M.

This misconception that one is better than the other in all ways needs to stop. They are very different.

If you like a high octane game with incredible depth in the matchups available where everyone is brittle and matches can be turned around on a dime, Melee is your game. IF you enjoy a smash game with great character variety, a multitude of unique styles, huge quantity of matchups/stages, PM is your game.

Probably the biggest difference in the played experience of the two games comes down to edge mechanics and recoveries. Melee is very much defined by every viable character being terrible at recovering, with the exception of peach and jiggs. In PM, at least 2/3s of the cast have strong recoveries (Fox level or better).

 

[-_Face_-]

It'd be like....if I made up this new (totally awesome) way to walk. And I was like "hey you should walk like this, you'll only trip around and feel kind of uncomfortable for like 6 months" you'd probably just stick to normal walking because it's already terribly effective and you've been doing it for the majority of your life. Even if my way of walking has awesome flips...and maybe jetpacks

 

[Terotrous]

I think it's really just the fact that it's a mod that some people can't get past. In terms of game mechanics, I think the difference between Melee and PM is akin to MvsC2 vs MvsC3. In MvsC2 / Melee, there's only a couple characters who are really viable, but the metagame is pretty deep anyway so people still like it. In MvsC3 / PM, almost everyone is viable, though some of the characters who used to really dominate don't stand out as much due to the way the game has changed.

So clearly there's some pros and cons, but MvsC3 did replace MvsC2 anyway just because it was newer and had more players. And PM likely would have too if it had been Brawl rather than an adjustment to Brawl.

 

[Vyrulent]

They are totally different games and play very differently from each other. One should not replace another, but they should exist together.

 

[Strong Badam]

They are totally different games and play very differently from each other. One should not replace another, but they should exist together.

only your second sentence is accurate

 

[The_NZA]

only your second sentence is accurate

You say that as if your view of "different" is the objective true form of the word.

Mleee DOES play differently from PM, both in its physics and much moreso in the way the game is played 90% of the time (whenever a match is played where both characters aren't marth/falco/fox/jiggs/peach). There's nothing to be gained by you claiming something other than this.

Fact: every character but fox/falco/marth/jiggs/peach have been changed
Fact: the new characters and the overall focus on certain things (better recoveries) make this dynamically a different experience from melee 90% of the time
Fact: those two things are different enough for someone on these forums to have the opinion that these two are different games that "play differently from each other."

 

[Strong Badam]

the general gameplan is very similar and how interactions go down in situations that occur often in both games are not radically different. saying the game is "very different" because of characters being different is like saying Super Street Figther is a very different game from Arcade Edition; the game mechanics are extremely similar and the skillsets the game test are barely different as a result.

 

[fabulouspants]

its more like sf2 > SF4

 

[JOE!]

So, the game plays differently even when the same melee chars are being used vs each other?

 

[The_NZA]

So, the game plays differently even when the same melee chars are being used vs each other?

To an extent, yes, due to stages and universal changes (grabbing the edge at the startup and ending of upb, b-reversing, rar, technical ease makes certain strats more prevalent). But mostly, I'll agree its a comparable experience when it's falco, fox, marth, jiggs, or peach. The physics still feel worse on some characters than in Melee (falcon comes to mind especially).

 

[Justkallmekai]

I feel like people like melee cause it feels right, it has a charm to it.

 

[9bit]

I can understand the people who say Melee feels right and PM feels a bit off because I'm the opposite. I've played so much exclusive PM that when I try to play Melee, even with characters I used to play extensively in Melee and still occasionally play in PM, it feels awkward. Like I can't do the things I want. I feel like a noob.

Also, I RAR-wavedash a lot in PM and since you can't do that in Melee that throws me off quite a bit.

 

[Vyrulent]

only your second sentence is accurate

Just because the mechanics and physics of the two games are very similar or identical(which they aren't) does not mean they play the same. You do not approach both games the same. Plus the two games don't even feel the same when it comes to physics, they are close, but not the exact same.

 

[PillsBuryDopeBoy]

I can understand the people who say Melee feels right and PM feels a bit off because I'm the opposite. I've played so much exclusive PM that when I try to play Melee, even with characters I used to play extensively in Melee and still occasionally play in PM, it feels awkward. Like I can't do the things I want. I feel like a noob.

Also, I RAR-wavedash a lot in PM and since you can't do that in Melee that throws me off quite a bit.

Yea.... its weird switching between PM and Melee, it always feels "odd".
And you can't expect PM to waltz in and take melee's spot. Melee's been around for 13 years and has been amazing since its release. And even though PM is just as amazing and awesome in its own right, it wont be taking melee's spot for a very long time.

 

[Brim]

Two big reasons:
1. If it wasn't for Melee I highly doubt Project M would exist.
2. Melee is generally far more popular and requires a crap-load of technical skill just to even have a chance at tournaments.
--
And honestly the latter of the reasons is why some of the other games are so popular like Street Fighter or King of Fighters. But, truth be told I'm fairly certain Smash requires more technical skill although I could be wrong.

 

[Kati]

If it wasn't an attitude the community held before, then it's safe to say that brawl taught us that we don't need to leave an old game just because there is a newer one.

Even if the new game happens to be awesome this time.

 

[Cold Fusion]

Because Pichu isn't in Project M and there are A LOT OF PICHU MAINS.

 

[vanhuynh16]

I'm surprised that no posted this video again for this argument.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUi2XEJBf9U

 

[bolt.]

I can think of 3 big reasons:
1. It's easier for companies like mlg to support melee because it's an official nintendo game.
2. Melee has an old community compared to p:m so it's better suited to survive smash 4.
3. Project:m is still kinda jank and gimmicky.

 

[JustTheTip]

1. It doesn't have Pichu (yet).
2. The process of installing it apparently isn't simple enough for some people.
3. It's a mod and a mod would never reach the popularity of a game that's been popular for like 12 years in the competitive scene.

 

[Manty]

Two big reasons:
1. If it wasn't for Melee I highly doubt Project M would exist.
2. Melee is generally far more popular and requires a crap-load of technical skill just to even have a chance at tournaments.
--
And honestly the latter of the reasons is why some of the other games are so popular like Street Fighter or King of Fighters. But, truth be told I'm fairly certain Smash requires more technical skill although I could be wrong.

> Smash Bros.
> more technical than KoF

...what?

 

[Chesstiger2612]

Those are important imho:
Still in development
Nostalgia for Melee
"Just a mod"
Veterans are often very conservative

 

[Xinc]

Hello all!

I am a newbie and this my question may come across as dumb maybe but it still confuses me. I just recently got back into super smash and heard about Project M. After playing it for a while I don't see how come Project M hasn't replaced Melee. Don't get me wrong, Melee is a great game, but isn't it a bit old? Wouldn't it be better to unite the whole player base onto one game and have a bigger competitive community for smash in general? Or is it because Project M is not finished yet so they are waiting on the final version?

Thanks!

Speculations:
Main reason is because it's a mod. It's not legit and hence doesn't fall into the category of a game Nintendo created.
Second reason: Melee is pretty successful. Many people stick to Melee because the metagame is pretty solid (and you don't need to be so familiar with so many new characters). PM has a much more large roster and hence feels like its own game because of more viable characters.
third reason: new mechanics that differentiate PM from Melee such as RAR and DACUS. Also specific changes with some characters (tied with second reason), such as lower tier characters getting a really large buff.

 

[turtletank]

The fact that Project M is incomplete is holding it back, people don't want to become invested in a character that could change drastically in a future release.

 

[Fortress]

Did that really get asked?

 

[9bit]

The fact that Project M is incomplete is holding it back, people don't want to become invested in a character that could change drastically in a future release.

I don't know, that's kinda putting (some) PM players in a bad light if that's actually true. People who play regular (modern) fighting games know the games can receive updates/patches, yet they still put in the time. And when a character gets changed they either stick with them or play someone else.

I think at this point it's safe to say that no character is going to be changed "drastically." Moving forward I only see minor tweaks and maybe changing one whole move if something turns out to be really silly.