How badly does kirby tear up d3 on RC?

[ADHD]

Good reasoning anyone?

 

[SmileyStation]

Do you think you could rephrase that?

 

[Zip.]

not too sure actually... >____________________>

 

[DFat2]

Good reasoning anyone?

Pretty even. Id say D3 has the advantage due to Range.

Kirby's Fair: --->
D3's Fair:___-------->

The only problems D3's Ive faced have on that stage is Suicides. They kill themselves way to often :/

I don't know, maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think a Good D3 could have trouble on that stage.

 

[Brave Hippo]

DFat1 speaks the truth! A good 3D will NEVER have trouble on RC. He can CG you on the ship, If your not a character with good recovery, he can do a DDDcide, killing you, but not him. Basically, if you face a good 3D, dont go to RC.

 

[Asdioh]

Take him to Jungle Japes instead.

 

[IC3R]

Take him to Jungle Japes instead.

^this

10this's

 

[fromundaman]

Yeah, JJ is by far the better choice, but is D3 really that problematic on RC? I seems like KIrby could easily gimp him on that stage...

 

[A1lion835]

Take him to brinstar. Not because of any particular stage advantage, but because brinstar is awesome (and this MIGHT be asdioh talking. might).

 

[fromundaman]

I don't think Asdioh reccomends Brinstar nearly as much as you do A1... You've become something of a Brinstar fanboy

 

[Brave Hippo]

Yeah, JJ is by far the better choice, but is D3 really that problematic on RC? I seems like KIrby could easily gimp him on that stage...

Gimped on RC? Hmm, I dunno about that. Mind giving an example?

On a side note, Ive just started playing Kirby seriously. He is AWESOME.

 

[fromundaman]

Well, D3's normal jumps don't bring him very far, and his UpB is really easy to intercept, so in theory I should be able to attempt to drill kick him if he's doing normal jumps, which would make him UpB, which would lead to a Bair WoP off the stage, unless I manage to get in there with a hammer.

 

[Brave Hippo]

Good point, but this would only work if the 3D let you get ahead of him on the stage's cycle. (You know what I mean when I said that, right?) Just incase, for example. When the ship portion of the level ends and the camera starts going upward.

Anyway, yes, the Bair WoP COULD work, unless the 3D decided to Bair. DeDeDe has more range and priority in his Bair (I believe) and his Bair comes out as quickly as Kirby's. As for the Drill kick, if it connected, yes that would work, but if it did not, the 3D could punish you. I suppose it depends on the skill of teh players, in the very end.

 

[DFat2]

Well, D3's normal jumps don't bring him very far, and his UpB is really easy to intercept, so in theory I should be able to attempt to drill kick him if he's doing normal jumps, which would make him UpB, which would lead to a Bair WoP off the stage, unless I manage to get in there with a hammer.

D3 has the advantage over Kirby --> . <--(period) They play fairly similar, (not to be confused with being playable with the same style) in general. Same with MK. Only difference is that MK is broken and has more stuff to him (imo obviously).

RC is Kirby's home stage. Any Kirby Main will feel right at home while in it, even if it's the first time you CP it. The only down side to that stage is (imo) the possibilities of being counter character picked with either:

Metaknight- He has a superior recovery game, ground priority and air speed. In a stage that you have to be moving with it and having 1/3 of the sage being an Up scrolling part, having an opponent that can attack while jumping is bad. Having one that has more priority than you is worse.

D3- He's a Kirby with a Hammer. The simile is obviously incorrect, but not to far off. I could compare Kirby more to D3 than to MK. The bad thing about fighting him in this stage is that his Fairs and Bairs control the Air totally. If your found jumping near him, don't try to punish him. Just fall back and try to find more equal ground or reset the field to regain your lost momentum. If you get thrown off the stage, JUMP OVER him instead of trying to land near him. He will punish you (if he's any good).

ROB- A good ROB player can hit you from anywhere on the stage. His Neutral B is too good.

The characters that give him a hard time on RC are his bad match ups with the exceptions of Marth and G&W which with my experiences and knowledge, don't fair to well on the stage --> . <-- Having it being a good stage for Kirby is a good plus.

 

[Atria]

Take him to brinstar. Not because of any particular stage advantage, but because brinstar is awesome (and this MIGHT be asdioh talking. might).

From what I've heard, Brinstar is a bad DDD stage, however I don't really know why. I'm going to assume that the reason why is that his projectile becomes more useless here because of those 'columns' and that his CG less effective against Kirby here because of the main platform layout. Norfair is also another bad DDD stage because again, his CG is less effective against Kirby here because the stage consists of short platforms. Jungle Japes is another good stage against DDD too because of the high ceiling. That means that you'll have to be at a higher percentage for him to KO you with his U-tilt.

D3 has the advantage over Kirby --> . <--(period) They play fairly similar, (not to be confused with being playable with the same style) in general. Same with MK. Only difference is that MK is broken and has more stuff to him (imo obviously).

RC is Kirby's home stage. Any Kirby Main will feel right at home while in it, even if it's the first time you CP it. The only down side to that stage is (imo) the possibilities of being counter character picked with either:

Metaknight- He has a superior recovery game, ground priority and air speed. In a stage that you have to be moving with it and having 1/3 of the sage being an Up scrolling part, having an opponent that can attack while jumping is bad. Having one that has more priority than you is worse.

D3- He's a Kirby with a Hammer. The simile is obviously incorrect, but not to far off. I could compare Kirby more to D3 than to MK. The bad thing about fighting him in this stage is that his Fairs and Bairs control the Air totally. If your found jumping near him, don't try to punish him. Just fall back and try to find more equal ground or reset the field to regain your lost momentum. If you get thrown off the stage, JUMP OVER him instead of trying to land near him. He will punish you (if he's any good).

ROB- A good ROB player can hit you from anywhere on the stage. His Neutral B is too good.

The characters that give him a hard time on RC are his bad match ups with the exceptions of Marth and G&W which with my experiences and knowledge, don't fair to well on the stage --> . <-- Having it being a good stage for Kirby is a good plus.

Actually, RC is one of G&W's good stages. Marth does okay on it, but if if he is against a character who has better recovery abilities than him + can gimp well, they will do better against Marth on that stage. However, since Kirby doesn't do too well against Marth, it could be fairly even on this stage. I could be wrong though.

Match up wise, I thought that Kirby had an advantage against DDD, not a disadvantage. However stage wise against DDD on RC, IT COULD BE fairly even, but I think I may be wrong. I think I agree with you on MK. However Kirby's Bair has a lot of priority too don't forget so it could work out for Kirby. Hmm, I knew that ROB was good on RC. However IMO, I think that ROB may have the advantage in this match if Kirby is at a distance. From here, ROB can just spam his projectiles against Kirby while Kirby can't do any thing about it. However, once Kirby has gotten past all of that, I think that Kirby may have the advantage because I think that ROB is technically screwed once Kirby is close up to him. Until ROB is at a safe distance again, Kirby will still have the advantage IMO. Probably it's fairly even for the both of them overall on this stage. Hmm...Someone may want to look at what I said...

 

[DFat2]

Actually, RC is one of G&W's good stages.

Care to Elaborate? Saying its one of his good stages is like saying nothing without good points.

Marth does okay on it, but if if he is against a character who has better recovery abilities than him + can gimp well, they will do better against Marth on that stage. However, since Kirby doesn't do too well against Marth, it could be fairly even on this stage.

He does OK/Average on neutral stages. He does great on stages with many platforms. Hes bad on stages with no platforms.

RC is a Scrolling stage, which means that you have to be moving with the stage. F-air Walls aren't as effective on the Up scrolling parts/any part that isn't on the Boat to be honest. It's not an assured victory, but it's hell of a lot better than on Battle Field.

Match up wise, I thought that Kirby had an advantage against DDD, not a disadvantage.

That's the theory, but I strongly disagree. If you wanna know why, PM me or send me a Visitor message and I'll answer gladly.

However stage wise against DDD on RC, IT COULD BE fairly even, but I think I may be wrong. I think I agree with you on MK. However Kirby's Bair has a lot of priority too don't forget so it could work out for Kirby.

Again, DDD has the advantage over Kirby because scrolling isn't a disadvantageous factor for him since he has multiple jumps. Same story, different chapter. Same goes for fighting MK.

Although your on the money there. Bair Breaks all of MK's Aerials if spaced right. The key to fighting MK is:

Patience

However, once Kirby has gotten past all of that, I think that Kirby may have the advantage because I think that ROB is technically screwed once Kirby is close up to him.

ROB has many attacks to keep Kirby away. And when you do get close to him, D-Smash.

Until ROB is at a safe distance again, Kirby will still have the advantage IMO.

You do realize that, a safe distance for ROB is With Kirby at F-Tilt range right? He doesn't have to be at the other side of the stage to be safe.

Probably it's fairly even for the both of them overall on this stage.

You obviously don't have that much experience against a diverse group of players that main different characters because You keep dubbing everything as Fairly even. The only one you didn't find fairly even was MK.

I don't know if you Play Offline/Online, but if you play a Good Kirby, you should know which characters are good to fight in which stages. That's not a definitive factor, but it helps to paint the picture.

You can't Dub a match up "fairly even" just because you have a hard time in it. Analyze it and then talk.

 

[CRASHiC]

Rainbow cruise is out best stage

 

[Brave Hippo]

I should have gotten on just a bit sooner. DFat1 is correct in most of his statements.

On a side note: I have two of Kirby's lolcombos down now! YAY!

Edit: Hey CRASHIC! Whats up?

 

[DFat2]

Rainbow cruise is out best stage

Guessing it was "Rainbow cruise is our best stage", there's your proof.

 

[CRASHiC]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=218593

 

[Kewkky]

I don't know... Against DDD, I would choose Lylat Cruise or Battlefield, rather than RC. A good DDD, like the one in my crew (RATED), will know what to watch out for and counter you easier than you can counter him. I would choose LC and BF because the stages are flat and have platforms, making it easier to break into DDD, since all he's got going in these stages are his attacks, and no stage disruptions in his favor.

I have felt the same way as DFat1 for a while now, D3 definitely has the advantage in the matchup, DEFINITELY... But not a huge one. His bair clashes with yous, his fair has range, uair and dair have great priorities, his inhale has more range, his dtilt kills easily, his utilt also kills, ftils has more range than all of kirby's attacks, his shield comes out fast, and his grab is faster than yours. He can survive to 180%+ with proper DI, whereas he can kill you at 100%. And let,s not talk about his sideB and dsmash! I have enough experience to stand by my point when I say that DDD can outplay Kirby in the ground and, if you're not careful, in the air also.

Taking away stage boons that could benefit both players the same way (eg. moving camera and platforms, stage that favors gimps, built-in wall aka SHIP, etc) will increase your chances against DDD. Run in for grabs when his attack's hitboxes disappear and afterlag begins, mindgame by faking spaced bairs and running in for grabs (he will want to shieldgrab your bair), charge up usmashes when he lands (his usual landing lag sets in), expect many ftilts and dtilts, and you should have an easier time than gimp-or-get-gimped in RC...

You might be able to gimp a DDD or two there, but experienced mains won't fall for gimps, sorry.

 

[momochuu]

Brinstar fad is getting old and lame now.

 

[DFat2]

I don't know... Against DDD, I would choose Lylat Cruise or Battlefield, rather than RC. A good DDD, like the one in my crew (RATED), will know what to watch out for and counter you easier than you can counter him. I would choose LC and BF because the stages are flat and have platforms, making it easier to break into DDD, since all he's got going in these stages are his attacks, and no stage disruptions in his favor.

Battle Field is a terrible stage for Kirby. The Platforms suck man. Against DDD, it's worst. You can't approach from the Air (assuming the DDD player knows his $hit) due to the platforms. He stands bellow one and Camps you with Front-B. You can Use FC, but if you use it behind one of the edges of the stage, it can't reach him if hes on the other side of the stage; if you use it in between the Top Plat and the other plats, he can punish you/shield and Forward-B. If you land on a platform, it's a Free Utilt for D3 ( assuming your under him).

His attacks are basically better than Kirby, ground wise. The Key approach I use with Kirby is Running at them then PS the Waddle and Grab combo. The only case I would find myself using D-grab would be against DDD. Kirby can get him no matter what he does out of a D-grab.

The same thing that goes for Battle field goes for Lylat. 3 platforms aren't so Hot for Kirby.

I have felt the same way as DFat1 for a while now, D3 definitely has the advantage in the matchup, DEFINITELY... But not a huge one. His bair clashes with yous, his fair has range, uair and dair have great priorities, his inhale has more range, his dtilt kills easily, his utilt also kills, ftils has more range than all of kirby's attacks, his shield comes out fast, and his grab is faster than yours. He can survive to 180%+ with proper DI, whereas he can kill you at 100%. And let,s not talk about his sideB and dsmash! I have enough experience to stand by my point when I say that DDD can outplay Kirby in the ground and, if you're not careful, in the air also.

I could answer everything with a quick solution out of them with Kirby, but the point is that it's all in theory. The main Factor is Killing potential. D3 lasts too long and Kirby dies too fast. That's the main problem really other than range and Ground priority.

Taking away stage boons that could benefit both players the same way (eg. moving camera and platforms, stage that favors gimps, built-in wall aka SHIP, etc) will increase your chances against DDD. Run in for grabs when his attack's hitboxes disappear and afterlag begins, mindgame by faking spaced bairs and running in for grabs (he will want to shieldgrab your bair), charge up usmashes when he lands (his usual landing lag sets in), expect many ftilts and dtilts, and you should have an easier time than gimp-or-get-gimped in RC...

The thing is that, GOOD D3 players don't tend to land with lag, or use attacks that have much of it. That goes for good players in general, not just D3 ones.

If you Bair His Shield, He could grab you. D3's grab is ridiculous. But, meh. He has sooome weaknesses so it's not like it's impossible. He just has the advantage. 55:44 imo.

You might be able to gimp a DDD or two there, but experienced mains won't fall for gimps, sorry.

The Better the player, the harder the Gimp. Trust me, no matter how experienced the player is, if the Gimp is unexpected and well executed, they will fall for it. Maybe just once, but I guess ones enough of an advantage.

 

[Kewkky]

I can see why you say platforms are DDD's forté, but I can safely say they help me more than hinder me. A fast kirby can uair DDD from below the pltforms, and pressure his shield/push him off. If a DDD is under the platfrm, avoid landing on the platform directly on top of him, and go for the legde. From there on, just wait for him to attack with anything (he will either dtilt, ftilt or sideB in most instances), then get back on stage (don't roll, DDD's dsmash/utilt is powerful) by standing, or with a fair/dair... I fon't recommend at all using FC for attacking purposes, DDD can easily shielgrab you when your landing lag sets in.

What I meant by landing lag is when they simply land with no attacks, land while airdodging, or when they're in a state of freefall (or similar, like DDD's falling UpB, where he can do nothing but fall and hopehe hits you). Since your usmash has a hitbox above kirby, if time correctly (which takes almost no skill), he hits DDD while sustaining no damage.

I seriously think you should reconsider platforms being a hindrance to Kirby. They can be used to "shark" as some people call it, intercept an opponent's landing (attacks with a long startup and/or afterlag will stop on the platform while you're below them), you can drop off of them with a quick bair/uair, and if they're shielding above one, you can hit their feet (under their shield) if it doesn't fully cover them. Also, the fact that kirby is light and has almost no landing lag-inducing attacks (air sideB, downB being the only lag-inducers) makes it so when he lands on a platform unexpectedly, he is able to answer almost any predicament he may encounter by jumping, attacking, or shielding.

If kirby didn't have his inhale, DDD would have a greater advantage over kirby. You have no idea how great Kirby's inhale is until you use it against heavies... He can even kill them at 0%, and no matter the skill level, if they're inhaled, they're dead... And lucky for Kirby, DDD is a heavyweight with lots of jumps and a good air-game. I'll post why I'm saying this once I'm able to grab a PC with internet, and let go of this handheld device I'm using that ignores some of the letters I type... :o

 

[DFat2]

There's no need to explain. Everybody knows why Kirby's Inhale Pwns D3. Guaranteed Foot Stool and Blah blah blah. An Inhale is super easy to perform on a Grab happy D3. I'll answer later more Detailed because I'm lazy.

 

[Atria]

Care to Elaborate? Saying its one of his good stages is like saying nothing without good points.

Okay then, I was just too lazy to do so last time. Overall IMO, the stage is fairly crowded so I think that it's easier for G&W to get KO's here. G&W can also D-tilt lock when he's on the boat. G&W's D-throw tech chase is easier to perform here when he uses it on an opponent who are on the flying carpets. Also, G&W can gimp opponents fairly well on this stage. Hmm...That's all I can think of for now. There could be other points why though, but those are the one's that are permanently stuck in my head.

He does OK/Average on neutral stages. He does great on stages with many platforms. Hes bad on stages with no platforms.

In Marth's case, true. Although, I don't think that he is THAT bad on stages with no platforms. His D-tilt and U-tilt are fairly good ground moves. Don't forget that BF is his best neutral/stage, but you probably meant overall or something like that.

RC is a Scrolling stage, which means that you have to be moving with the stage. F-air Walls aren't as effective on the Up scrolling parts/any part that isn't on the Boat to be honest. It's not an assured victory, but it's hell of a lot better than on Battle Field.

Once again, true. Marth can still do well on this stage against other charaters though. I think mainly against characters who have tether recoveries and characters who are actually bad on this stage like Snake for example.

Although your on the money there. Bair Breaks all of MK's Aerials if spaced right. The key to fighting MK is:

Patience

I think it should be more like THE golden rule TBH.

ROB has many attacks to keep Kirby away. And when you do get close to him, D-Smash.

You do realize that, a safe distance for ROB is With Kirby at F-Tilt range right? He doesn't have to be at the other side of the stage to be safe.

Yeah, I know that F-tilt, DSmash and D-tilt were good ROB moves to keep opponents away. However, I do think that ROB has an advantage when he's far away from Kirby though because he can spam his projectiles in order to get some damage on Kirby or create an opening while Kirby can't do anything about it while he is at a large distance away from ROB. Oh also, I thought that Kirby was slightly faster at executing attacks compared to ROB. So I thought that Kirby has the advantage once he gets in there and attacks ROB. I think I may be wrong though.

You can't Dub a match up "fairly even" just because you have a hard time in it. Analyze it and then talk.

Ohhh, umm...I'm just saying IT COULD BE considered even when those characters fight on that stage when those things are taken into consideration. Although apparently, I don't know any better.

You obviously don't have that much experience against a diverse group of players that main different characters because You keep dubbing everything as Fairly even. The only one you didn't find fairly even was MK. I don't know if you Play Offline/Online, but if you play a Good Kirby, you should know which characters are good to fight in which stages. That's not a definitive factor, but it helps to paint the picture.

I don't really know how to work out match-ups when one also has to take into consideration what stage it is both characters are playing on. So yes, I am uncertain/inexperienced about how to work that out. Also, I thought that it was literally against the law (lol) to go against an MK on RC because I thought he had a LOT of tricks on that stage.

Umm...I mostly play online seemingly as though good players + tournaments are too far away for me. I'd say that I play a reasonably good Kirby, but last time I mentioned that on another character board, I got gained up on because of the fact that I haven't been to any tournaments yet. Therefore, just so I don't make myself look stupid again which I regretted doing badly, I'll say that I'm so called 'bad' with Kirby. But I don't think so though. However, I've got no proof so I guess I'm considered a bad player around here until I do so.

That's the theory, but I strongly disagree. If you wanna know why, PM me or send me a Visitor message and I'll answer gladly.

I wouldn't mind, but seemingly as though it looks like you go to tournaments + play good players, I think you might thrash me BADLY. Also apparently I'm 'bad' at this game according to some people + I live in Australia so probably that'll turn you off even more. But IDK if you mind that or not. I'm just trying to give you an indication of my skill level. Although then again, I think that I'm overreacting since that last argument I had on these boards. >_> Even if you didn't mind, I'm busy with school work and I still have a headache from that argument I had. Man it hurts... Probably some other time when I'm free and if I'm in the mood for a fight where I might get thrashed by a good player. (I think you are one from what I can see.)

Probably a better idea: If you want that theory changed so badly, why not take on some of the better Kirby players here? I'm sure that they can put up a better fight against you than what I can. I know they've already done the match-up guide on Kirby vs DDD, but probably you can convince them that DDD isn't bad against Kirby. IDK if that'd work though, that's just me thinking aloud.

 

[DFat2]

Okay then, I was just too lazy to do so last time. Overall IMO, the stage is fairly crowded so I think that it's easier for G&W to get KO's here. G&W can also D-tilt lock when he's on the boat. G&W's D-throw tech chase is easier to perform here when he uses it on an opponent who are on the flying carpets. Also, G&W can gimp opponents fairly well on this stage. Hmm...That's all I can think of for now. There could be other points why though, but those are the one's that are permanently stuck in my head.



In Marth's case, true. Although, I don't think that he is THAT bad on stages with no platforms. His D-tilt and U-tilt are fairly good ground moves. Don't forget that BF is his best neutral/stage, but you probably meant overall or something like that.



Once again, true. Marth can still do well on this stage against other charaters though. I think mainly against characters who have tether recoveries and characters who are actually bad on this stage like Snake for example.



I think it should be more like THE golden rule TBH.





Yeah, I know that F-tilt, DSmash and D-tilt were good ROB moves to keep opponents away. However, I do think that ROB has an advantage when he's far away from Kirby though because he can spam his projectiles in order to get some damage on Kirby or create an opening while Kirby can't do anything about it while he is at a large distance away from ROB. Oh also, I thought that Kirby was slightly faster at executing attacks compared to ROB. So I thought that Kirby has the advantage once he gets in there and attacks ROB. I think I may be wrong though.



Ohhh, umm...I'm just saying IT COULD BE considered even when those characters fight on that stage when those things are taken into consideration. Although apparently, I don't know any better.



I don't really know how to work out match-ups when one also has to take into consideration what stage it is both characters are playing on. So yes, I am uncertain/inexperienced about how to work that out. Also, I thought that it was literally against the law (lol) to go against an MK on RC because I thought he had a LOT of tricks on that stage.

Umm...I mostly play online seemingly as though good players + tournaments are too far away for me. I'd say that I play a reasonably good Kirby, but last time I mentioned that on another character board, I got gained up on because of the fact that I haven't been to any tournaments yet. Therefore, just so I don't make myself look stupid again which I regretted doing badly, I'll say that I'm so called 'bad' with Kirby. But I don't think so though. However, I've got no proof so I guess I'm considered a bad player around here until I do so.



I wouldn't mind, but seemingly as though it looks like you go to tournaments + play good players, I think you might thrash me BADLY. Also apparently I'm 'bad' at this game according to some people + I live in Australia so probably that'll turn you off even more. But IDK if you mind that or not. I'm just trying to give you an indication of my skill level. Although then again, I think that I'm overreacting since that last argument I had on these boards. >_> Even if you didn't mind, I'm busy with school work and I still have a headache from that argument I had. Man it hurts... Probably some other time when I'm free and if I'm in the mood for a fight where I might get thrashed by a good player. (I think you are one from what I can see.)

Probably a better idea: If you want that theory changed so badly, why not take on some of the better Kirby players here? I'm sure that they can put up a better fight against you than what I can. I know they've already done the match-up guide on Kirby vs DDD, but probably you can convince them that DDD isn't bad against Kirby. IDK if that'd work though, that's just me thinking aloud.

Don't rip yourself Up. My advice is to Edit. Write "Ignore Post" and I'll continue through PM. There's no need to continue this here anyway.

But if you want to leave it as it is here, I'll answer here I guess.