Honorable Agreements?

[Tee ay eye]

If two players in a match agree to something in the match, and one of them goes against the agreement, what should happen?

For example, when I played PewPewU, we both agreed not to fight each other when we were on the fire transformation of PS. Alternately, I've heard about people who agree to kill themselves when they're in a Wobble so they don't have to sit through the whole thing. Should anything happen to people who make these agreements and go against them? Technically, they're not breaking any rules, but on the other hand, I feel like lying to your opponent shouldn't be rewarded/encouraged.

 

[Dan Salvato]

If you want to be serious about such agreements then I would say let a TO know of your agreement so that they can officially enforce it. Forming and subsequently breaking an agreement would make a player a huge scumbag, so it's much easier if there's no gray area in that regard. People here might argue "oh it's not an official rule so it can't be TO-enforced" but it's more for the sake of keeping everyone in friendly, high spirits, which is one of the most important aspects of a tournament.

 

[CyberZixx]

Agreements? Take no mercy. I find that most people don't engage each other on the fire transformation regardless.

 

[atangerine]

Why would you kill yourself if you're being wobbled. There's always a (small) chance that they mess up...

 

[Tee ay eye]

Agreements? Take no mercy. I find that most people don't engage each other on the fire transformation regardless.

Yeah, I don't think most good smashers are scumbaggy enough to go against this kind of thing, but I was just wondering what should happen in that case.

 

[Bad Cupboard]

you should get kicked in the nuts

 

[MountainGoat]

It's called an honorable agreement because it is based on just that: honor. You are putting your "honor" on the line for an agreement that is outside the standard guidelines. If you can't trust someone's honor than don't make such an agreement with them.

 

[BTmoney]

Agreements? Take no mercy. I find that most people don't engage each other on the fire transformation regardless.

there are reasons why you might want to make an agreement (i.e. sheik dittos, she chain grabs herself literally to death and it's not hard at all. imaging wobbling but much easier and inescapable)

 

[CyberZixx]

there are reasons why you might want to make an agreement (i.e. sheik dittos, she chain grabs herself literally to death and it's not hard at all. imaging wobbling but much easier and inescapable)

I never knew she could do that. I should watch more Shiek dittos.

 

[BTmoney]

well barring platforms, but yeah lol (apparently [from commentary] m2k usually proposes no chain grabbing in the ditto)

 

[Battlecow]

yeah the sheik ditto grab bans and stuff are tricky territory, it's really hard to enforce.

I recommend doing it with people you trust and having the loss of that trust be the punishment

 

[Bones0]

They call it a gentleman's agreement because they can **** you over if they decide not to be a gentleman and honor the agreement. A TO shouldn't honor any agreements not made aware to him before the start of the set or game in question. It sucks, but the alternative to having people go back on agreements is having people make up or misinterpret agreements to get their opponent DQed. At least when the responsibility is in the hands of the player proposing the agreement he knows what he's getting into. If someone offers to do no CGs in a Sheik ditto and his opponent does dthrow jab regrabs thinking that is allowed, the guy who proposed it might complain to the TO that jab regrabbing is still considered a CG, so instead of having to figure out what exactly happened and whether the action in question broke the agreement or not, the TO can just go by the actual results.

 

[michael_li]

your a joke buddy

 

[Frame Perfect]

have you tried crying about it?

 

[Shadow Huan]

shiek mirrors without chainthrowing are pretty danged fun actually. with chainthrowing it's boring as hell to play and to watch.

and as opposed to the sheik main in my old crew, I played this game for fun. makes me wish I had access to a PAL melee, PAL sheik looks really interesting.


annnnnyways on topic, I think that if two players agree on something that is not specifically banned in the ruleset, then both should honor it. it's a maturity thing at that point. doing what you say you will is a pretty god sign of maturity. if you don't wanna agree to something, then don't lol

 

[Dr. Poopoo]

It's called an honorable agreement because it is based on just that: honor. You are putting your "honor" on the line for an agreement that is outside the standard guidelines. If you can't trust someone's honor than don't make such an agreement with them.

exactly. it's not against the rules if you break it but you'll be a little ***** lol

 

[CloneHat]

Don't make promises you can't keep

 

[Frame Perfect]

fun fact: isai and ken honored their agreement at Moast 3 so ken couldn't switch to fox.

 

[Pawls to the Wall]

I asked this same question on the Texas Melee boards just a couple days ago. I'm wondering if you posting this is coincidence, or if word just travels that fast. The consensus was that the only ill effect that would come to the breaker of the agreement is a drop in reputation. Better to just play the game as it's made, I guess. Or switch to PAL I guess (seems much more balanced from what I can tell)

 

[oukd]

you could like...bring 10-20 copies of a list of conditions and agreements (ie if deal broken, match is forfeited), tell the other person to sign it before your set, and have someone watch the set
<_<

iunno i almost never do deals like this lol. from what i understand you just agree to something, and if its broken then too bad

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

Basically what Bones said.

Moral of the story: only make gentlemen's agreements with people you trust.

 

[Mr.Jackpot]

Agreements are meh.

I once FSmash killed someone through the PS fire tree after a bunch of dashdancing and taunting, felt good.

 

[t3h Icy]

CG Sheik dittos are awesome! :D

 

[Xyzz]

Alternately, I've heard about people who agree to kill themselves when they're in a Wobble so they don't have to sit through the whole thing.

Well, you can always just pause there to throw off their rhythm and then run off the stage because you just violated the "no pause"-rule. No need to actually tell them to let go of you so you can go end that stock faster
But yeah, there isn't really a way to punish somebody for being a scumbag and not adhering to the agreement in the later case

 

[Machiavelli]

if i played sheik I'd agree to no chain grabbing then chain grab last stock

 

[Xyzz]

if i played sheik I'd agree to no chain grabbing then chain grab last stock

Last stock, of the last tourney you attend, because if you attend ones where there's people who know you, I doubt anyone would agree to that with you again
Personally I would not even care for you to show up again, tbh :D

 

[Bones0]

Last stock, of the last tourney you attend, because if you attend ones where there's people who know you, I doubt anyone would agree to that with you again
Personally I would not even care for you to show up again, tbh :D

I would agree to it with him and violate the agreement on the first stock if I know he's going to violate it on the last stock. lol

 

[Deleted member]

i shino stall bad ganon players because it's funny.

if you get tricked, you deserve it.

 

[tarheeljks]

in terms of the outcome of the match i don't think you can do anything about it even if the to knows beforehand . however, i would be all for shunning and shaming said individual

 

[Zodiac]

I like the no mercy camp of this discussion, wobbling someone or comboing them for a solid ten seconds across the stage from zero to death is part of the demoralizing experience we call ssbm.

 

[choknater]

if i end up playing a sheik ditto at EVO (pretty possible) i will definitely CG LOLOL

 

[Metà]

i don't get why more sheiks don't mercilessly CG each other. play to win

 

[Tee ay eye]

i don't get why more sheiks don't mercilessly CG each other. play to win

well, most sheiks are more comfortable with/prefer sheik dittos without chaingrabbing. it's not exactly being scrubby of them if neither player does it. i'm sure that both sheiks would CG each other if no agreement was made.

if you're worse than your opponent at CG-on sheik dittos, i wouldn't call it playing to win.

not "playing to win" would be refusing to CG when the other person doesn't make an agreement

 

[NalsXR]

never mind
chars

 

[Jim Morrison]

You have these agreements with people you know you can have them with. And you should know what people not to have those agreements have. If it's a random you never played before, then just play standard.

 

[ph00tbag]

It is kind of the point of a gentleman's agreement that, for the sake of forming bonds of trust, you honor it. If you fail to hold up your end of the bargain, then win or lose that one single match, you've given up a lot of standing in your community, and in that pool of potential friends. Now, if you don't care for earning the trust and friendship of these people, and would rather be unwelcome in their company, then there's no stipulation for repercussions in any ruleset, so go be a **** if that's your thing.

But, if you're like many of us, and you want to be able to continue to attend tournaments without inviting hostility and unfriendliness, then honoring your gentleman's agreements is a good rule of thumb.

 

[Divinokage]

I've done that with M2k plenty of times, no CG.. which is why you don't see in the matches. Probably a bad decision on my part lol. At this point, I'd say just play the ****ing game and kill your opponent that's it, that's all.

 

[Xyzz]

I always wonder whether no CG is beneficial for Ganon against Sheik... on the one hand Sheik can still do tons of mean things to you, and your combo game in return isn't that good. On the other hand it sounds a lot easier for Sheik to get the grab in the first place... double edged swords everywhere <3 :D

 

[Divinokage]

My guaranteed combos are from grabs and.. ya it's very hard to grab Sheik in the first place because of her BS moves lol.