Holes in my Zelda Game

[sFoster]

Ok maybe you guys can help the holes in my zelda game..

I feel like I am hardly using ANY tilt attacks or grabs.
I know those are general strategies, but I am a zelda player so maybe help me in context..

I use usmash mostly for people standing above me on platforms, and I try to stick to nair or fsmash for ariel combat..

I can dodge, dsmash and fsmash great in ground combat, and I am skilled at tossing people around and off cliffs with nayru's love, teleportation and dins fire..

I've gotten pretty good at this point, but I know I could be better since I must be missing a ton of attack possibilities with the tilts and grabs.

 

[HipsterKid]

Tilts and Grabs are great assets to Zelda's game but they're not totally necessary.

For example, Up and Forward tilt can be used at kill moves when your opponent is at about 130. Adding to that, if they hit your opponent upward, you can use it to set up for anyone of Zelda's great Areals. I'm sure Up-Tilt to Up-Air can be used at a great combo that can kill anywhere from 70 to 90, depending on the opponent. Also, Up Tilt has a bit more vertical range than Up Smash, so it'll be easier to hit someone on a platform above you.

Down Tilt has it's own different story. It's spammable. You can get yourself about 30 damage from just doing that attack. Not only that but it Trips opponents. That can give you easy access to an F-smash. Either that or you can simply Down Smash. At high percents, that means death. Down tilt would be a good thing to input into your strategy.

All of Zelda's grabs can be linked into some sort of combo.
-Up Throw can link to Up-Air. That can also lead to low-percentage kills.
-Down Throw can lead into a Back-Air. If landed correctly, you can get an easy 30-ish damage in.
-Forward and Back throw can lead into Din's Fire Spam.

Those are just some of the things that I know you can do with the throws and grabs. I'm sure there are much more to discover. :] I hoped this helped!

 

[Gates]

Zelda's throws really aren't great except for Bthrow at high percentages (furthest distance of any of her throws, can be good for KOing if you can get behind your opponent) and Uthrow (possible set up for Uair). Usually, if your opponent is close enough that you can grab them you could probably use another, better attack (smash attacks, kick out of shield, Nayru's Love, etc.). For some reason, I often Dthrow my opponents, which I suppose is mostly just a result of me playing Sheik in Melee and Dedede as my secondary in Brawl.

I've found Dtilt to be useful in stopping an advancing opponent and setting them up for a smash/jab/another tilt/whatever. Ftilt is generally faster than Fsmash and about the same speed as her jab and it has good send for you to follow with a dash attack, hyphen smash, or just go back to camping with Din's Fire. Utilt is a decent substitute for Usmash in the sense that the knockback is about the same and they KO at similar percentages, but what it lacks most is priority. I would advise mostly using it against grounded characters for this reason.

All in all, you shouldn't really feel that bad about using smashes and specials more than tilts because that's where a lot of Zelda's strength lies. Using them too much, however, can make you predictable, so it's important to include as much of her moveset as you can into your gameplan.

 

[sFoster]

Up Throw can link to Up-Air. That can also lead to low-percentage kills.
-Down Throw can lead into a Back-Air. If landed correctly, you can get an easy 30-ish damage in.

Those are just some of the things that I know you can do with the throws and grabs. I'm sure there are much more to discover. :] I hoped this helped!

Both of you guys mentioned Uthrow to UAir.. can you actually pull this off?

I can make a complete *** of myself juggling people with Dins, hyphen smash, and nair, but I complete fail at landing a uair so consistently during a juggle that I don't even try anymore. It just seems to easy to DI away from.

Now I just save the uair for short up and hitting a person on a platform above me, but maybe I should practice this more?

dthrow to backair seems possible, i tried this in training but marth wasn't bouncing high enough for me to work in a backair until around 100%

I guess throws are mostly for breaking through a sheild, if you have an opponent that seems to be blocking most of your dash attacks?

I had a small light bulb moment while playing around with utilt that I'll share with you guys.
I play a lot of 2v2, and one time I had a high percentage opponent caught in a usmash.

He was definitely about to die, but because it takes a second to damage them before launch that gave his teammate time to hit me and cancel the attack. UTilt doesn't have those damage frames; it launches on impact. So if you're in a situation that somebody else could hit you from the side (e.g. 2v2 or FFA) and you just want the quick kill utilt is a good weapon.


* Another Question: You say "[Down Tilt] Trips opponents. That can give you easy access to an F-smash"

How risky is it to try a dtilt trip? I've noticed it doesn't trip them every time, and I'm not sure what kind of DI they can use to move away from me after I dtilt attack them.

Do you have to pay attention to what kind of result it produces and adapt on the fly?

I'm worried about leaving myself wide open for an attack, and passing up a good smash opportunity.

 

[sFoster]

This might be obvious, but I don't think I've seen it plainly posted anywhere.. so I will share it with you kind folks.

I noticed that nayru's love throws people in the direction you're facing, including people standing behind you. I use this instead of dsmash when I'm inbetween two opponents, so it gets them both on the same side and I'm no longer surrounded.

I also use it if I'm by a cliff to edge guard, and throw them back off the edge when I hit them.
Also if standing on solid ground, FW can teleport you in a straight line one diretion along that ground at 4 different distances. I use this a lot to sweetspot it and DOA (damage on arrival) opponents.. generally follow up with a dsmash in case I miss and appear next to them instead.

One other attack I've noticed my game is missing, is that I never charge the smash attacks.. It's always a quick press of the dpad, rather than holding A. Any thoughts on the most opportune times to charge?

 

[Gates]

Both of you guys mentioned Uthrow to UAir.. can you actually pull this off?

I can make a complete *** of myself juggling people with Dins, hyphen smash, and nair, but I complete fail at landing a uair so consistently during a juggle that I don't even try anymore. It just seems to easy to DI away from.

Now I just save the uair for short up and hitting a person on a platform above me, but maybe I should practice this more?

Except for Utilt, all of Zelda's vertical KO moves can be DI'd out of, so that obviously isn't the real issue. I think what you mean to say is that the opponent can easily see it coming and that the lag is more punishable than Usmash/Utilt/etc. To be honest, I didn't kill very frequently with Uair myself for the same reason. The best advice I can give you is to not jump the gun with it and wait until you're sure you have enough time to land it. Uthrow doesn't send as far upwards as Utilt or Usmash which is why it's good for this scenario. And of course I've done this before, why else would I have suggested it?

I guess throws are mostly for breaking through a sheild, if you have an opponent that seems to be blocking most of your dash attacks?

Generally speaking, yes, but Zelda's Dtilt can also be used to get under an opponents shield (another use for it).

How risky is it to try a dtilt trip? I've noticed it doesn't trip them every time, and I'm not sure what kind of DI they can use to move away from me after I dtilt attack them.

Do you have to pay attention to what kind of result it produces and adapt on the fly?

I'm worried about leaving myself wide open for an attack, and passing up a good smash opportunity.

Don't worry about leaving yourself open with it or tripping the opponent on your first try. Dtilt is one of Zelda's fastest attacks, so if you don't get the desired effect at first you can just use another one or spam it for a bit until you do.

What you said about Nayru's Love and Farore's Wind has already been discussed. Check out the Farore's Wind guide here if you haven't already to learn more about this amazing move.

One other attack I've noticed my game is missing, is that I never charge the smash attacks.. It's always a quick press of the dpad, rather than holding A. Any thoughts on the most opportune times to charge?

Nobody charges smashes lol.

But seriously, because Zelda already has a lot of lag on her moves, it's best not to charge the smashes.

And what control scheme are you using that you d-pad Smash? I ask because it seems like it could be a good idea.

 

[sFoster]

Yeah I use the d-pad for smashing w/ wiimote and nunchuck. def makes a big difference.

In other news, I played a marth today that kept counter attacking my dash attack..
Every time I would just get knocked back when I tried to hit him.

Switch to shield grabbing on him haha, so that was a perfect opportunity.

 

[Gates]

Wii Remote/Nunchuck, eh? So does Shake Smash not work well then?

 

[Luthien]

Both of you guys mentioned Uthrow to UAir.. can you actually pull this off?

Platforms anywhere? They totally make the opponent walk right into it.

I can make a complete *** of myself juggling people with Dins, hyphen smash, and nair, but I complete fail at landing a uair so consistently during a juggle that I don't even try anymore. It just seems to easy to DI away from.

You should keep trying till you get it. You're probably just jumping a little too early or too late. Keep patient, gravity's on your side here. If you think they're going to airdodge the uair, try to follow up immediately with a bair or fair. Hippy got me with that once, and I can imagine it is most satisfying.

Now I just save the uair for short up and hitting a person on a platform above me, but maybe I should practice this more?

Depends on the height of the platform. If usmash will hit, use it instead. It shieldstabs from below.

I guess throws are mostly for breaking through a sheild, if you have an opponent that seems to be blocking most of your dash attacks?

If they're blocking your dash attacks and they aren't shield-grabbing, something is wrong with them. Try varying your approach with hyphensmashing (usmash on the c-stick while running), dash attack, and grabs.

How risky is it to try a dtilt trip? I've noticed it doesn't trip them every time, and I'm not sure what kind of DI they can use to move away from me after I dtilt attack them.

Do you have to pay attention to what kind of result it produces and adapt on the fly?

Yes.

You should never be trying to get the opponent to trip. You should just wait for it to happen and if it happens, more power to you. Dtilt can work into pretty much anything.

 

[HipsterKid]

Hippy got me with that once, and I can imagine it is most satisfying.

Everything that Luthien has said is totally true.
Especially this.
It's even more satisfying if it's your opponents last stock :]

 

[sFoster]

Wii Remote/Nunchuck, eh? So does Shake Smash not work well then?

No, shake smash is horrible .. at least in my hands.
Trying to d-smash is awkward.. and you can only do it once.

Then you have to move the control back up, in which case I accidently USmash instead of doing 2 dsmashes.. or I'll be in the air , and accidently move it causing me to dsmash off a cliff to my death. Lame stuff like that.

It's too easy to accidently smash at the wrong time or in the wrong direction.
I hate shake smash.

 

[sFoster]

Luthien thanks for the advice.

It seems like dash attack / dash grab is a game of rock paper scissors?
If you think they're going to dash attack, you should shield grab.
If you think they're going to dash grab, you should stand your ground and attack?

BTW started working UTILT into my regular asenal, and you guys are right about it being a killer KO move.
A little harder to land, but when it does that is usually GG.

I got my *** handed to me by a really talented wolf the other day.
It was the first time another a character has actually forced me into the offensive..

Usually Dins Fire is a giant attention magnent that forces everybody to come to you, but this guy rocked me pretty hard with his laser. I need to rechallenge him to a timed match so I can save a replay, the guy was great.

 

[Takumaru]

General Tips:

Don't over use her dash attack, it's too easy to block and punish.

Walk don't run. Brawl is so much more slow paced than melee that you can actualy use walking to space yourself. Also you can do any attack while walking.

Her jab is useful against people who shield grab a lot. It pushes most characters outside of their grab range and into your F-smash range. Execptions to this include Zamus, Samus, Link, Toon Link and Lucas.

D tilt is amazing. Use it.

 

[sFoster]

I like to over use her dash attack, and then switch to dash-grab once people start to anticipate it.
Of course in that sense it's no longer over-using the dash attack since I'm switching to something else.

I really don't use dtilts though.. ever, so I am going to train against the computer and see how often and where I can get the dtilt attacks in .. hearing too many good things not to work them into my game.

I'll have some vids soon. I was able to replay that wolf, and I got in some matches against a good fox and MK that were kicking my *** too. Should be a good basis for a general zelda vs. specific character discussion.

 

[Luthien]

Dash attack destroys on laggy wifi.

Also, post your vids in the Zelda Critique thread please. It's there for a reason.

That's all I have to say.

 

[sFoster]

I decided there is no point in uploading the vidoes, because I have already learned from them.

Getting much better at this point, I think I am becoming a force.
Not feeling too much love from nayru right now though.

I rechallenged the MK that gave me trouble, but I could not get nayru's to protect me from his tornado.
An appropriately t1med n-air would break through but this wasn't always an option.

I am using tilts and jabs now regularly, as well as n-air.
What should I do when somebody is trying to rush and grab me when I'm not facing them.. nayru's love?

 

[Takumaru]

spot dodge

 

[PrinceLegend]

ive noticed about her throws maybe one chance in every match i end up down throw Fkick Fkick and it ends up hitting them right works great to get them from 0%-44%